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/lit/ - Literature

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15065041 No.15065041 [Reply] [Original]

How old were you when you realised Jordan Peterson and Sam Harris and so on are posturing hacks...


I was 16, embarrassingly late i know.

>> No.15065051

You're too young to post here, kiddo.

>> No.15065099

>>15065041
I was one. I woke up on a Sunday morning and sensed that something fishy was brewing across the water.

>> No.15065113

>>15065041
wow what an intellectually stimulating idea for a thread

>> No.15065147

But they talk real slow and smart to me? And they question the narrative about controversial stuff like not about saying pronouns but about laws saying you have to say the pronouns in Canada???

>> No.15065171

how are they hacks?

>> No.15065186

>>15065041
Midwits thinking they're hot shit because they figured out peterson's a fraud are worse than petersonites. You'll be cringing at your present self in 2 years

>> No.15065209

>>15065041
They seem intelligent 'inside the system' people. Though honestly never heard a word from Sam Harris, and I watched a couple youtube videos on Peterson. Who gives a fuck anyway

>> No.15065220

>>15065041
Peterson is alright. People make him out to be more than he really is but when you strip that away he's done nothing wrong
Sam Harris is cringe and a dishonest jew

>> No.15065227

>>15065186
quarterwits who think they're warm poo for calling out people who've figured out peterson's a fraud are worse than the people who call out peterson as a fraud. You'll be cringing at yourself within 2 years lmao

>> No.15065250

It took me 15 years to get same conclusion as him. So, you have still time to learn.

>> No.15065258

>>15065250
lmao. saddest thing i've seen

>> No.15065277

>>15065041
I like Sam Harris, his podcast is entertaining. Bret Weinstein is definitely the fucking worst of the Intellectual Dark Web. Sam may have some bad takes, but he's pretty sensible on most topics.

>> No.15065280

>>15065227
I am constantly cringing at myself. This is how you'll end up.

>> No.15065307

>>15065280
ayyyyyyyyy

>> No.15065398

I don't understand the hate for Peterson. His personality lectures are excellent for anyone looking to learn about psychoanalysis. I guess shitposting retards on here are better educated than a professor teaching at Harvard.

>> No.15065406 [DELETED] 

Last year when I turned 12 I realized that lobster man was cringe and Marxism was the way of the future

>> No.15065418

Sam Harris is milquetoast but he's hardly a hack. He isn't posturing or trying to be anything other than a bland liberal pedaling meditation and science. Peterson is much more a hack. He criticizes systems of thoughts that he has no familiarity or understanding of.

>> No.15065447

18, anon

>> No.15065454

>>15065418
>The Moral Landscape: How Science Can Determine Human Values

He's trying to establish a science of morality in a 300 page book and boasts about not engaging in the relevant philosophical material needed to have even a slight clue of what he is talking about by claiming it is too 'boring' too engage in. Yes boring.

That is the height of hackery. If you can't see that well, there's not much point in even saying anything else.

>> No.15065489

>>15065454
Again, that's just a bland, milquetoast version of utilitarianism mixed scientific skepticism. Even if he doesn't overtly engage with relevant philosophical material, he is in fact doing so. You don't need to cite Bentham and Mills to be a proponent of the bland, vulgar utilitarian materialism that 99% of people in the world espouses.

>> No.15065493

>>15065041
i watched it happen from the beginning, there was one dude on here who kept shilling MoM circa 2011, and then the tranny video got traction. Sam Harris was never taken seriously.

>> No.15065521

>>15065489
>Even if he doesn't overtly engage with relevant philosophical material, he is in fact doing so.

He's really not. He thinks he is, as do you apparently but it's the same as a teenager who says 'nothing doesn't real' and thinks they're onto some worthwhile thoughts about nihilism.

Again, if you want to have that view loosely as many do, as you point out, then that's fine. If you are trying to establish a science and refuse to engage with it as he is then you are a laughable hack.

It's really not that hard to figure this one out.

>> No.15065551

>>15065041
You should’ve realised this almost immediately you fucking retard, we should have better standards than to consider these people worth talking about, they’re just classical liberal goyboys who offer the most obvious critiques of contemporary progressives. There’s a reason that JP threads descend quickly into benzo memes, it’s because that’s all he’s worth.
https://youtu.be/WfyjTZrBJ8U

>> No.15065571

>>15065551
Just as an fyi, you are clearly worth even less. But yeh, he's a hack. Nice edgy humour champ

>> No.15065580

Everyone! Everyone! I'm smarter than Jordan Peterson and also all the people who like him! I'm smart! I'm smart! Look at me!

>> No.15065622
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15065622

>>15065041
They both have good points, but only an idiot would base his life around what they say. Now that Unibomber. He really speaks to me.

>> No.15065639

>>15065580
what the fuck... Is it true ?

>> No.15065683
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15065683

>>15065041
who knew this image would go from being figuratively true to literally true

>> No.15065689
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15065689

>>15065041
Peterson is a hack for sure but there is nothing wrong with this particular quote.

>> No.15065731

>>15065398
>Appeal to authority

>> No.15065760

>>15065571
>just as an fyi
>champ
>no u argumentation
>getting at all defensive over someone criticising Peterson
You need to go back

>> No.15065898

>>15065521
You literally said
>boasts about not engaging in the relevant philosophical material
And now you're saying
>He thinks he is

Which one is it? Either he thinks he is engaging with the material or he isn't.

>> No.15066197

>>15065580
>I'm smarter than Jordan Peterson
Not a high bar anymore.

>> No.15066218

>>15065398
we built this site on contrarianism boy... you think you're better than us? you're wrong! you're always wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!

>> No.15066265
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15066265

>>15065041
He's not entirely wrong with that quote. There is a monster living in your head that needs you to believe this world is good. Truth is this world sucks, of course there is beauty in it which I would never want to leave behind but I do want all of the awful evil things to just go away including the monster in my head. It's hard to stay alive without accepting that monster though... it demands you bend the knee. I am enduring though...

>> No.15066290

Jordan B. Peterson, plain-speaking truth-sayer, gestures towards a marble door. I follow, Connor with me; as we run, skipping almost, I can see, through a third eye, my yellow, disarrayed teeth, revealed by laughter of the most boyish sort.

“I’ve got some meaning for you, boys,” says Peterson, matey but acute, “it’s just down this hallway. Follow me.”

We almost trip, mangled by ecstasy; the walls start to undulate wildly, deforming into abstractions no man can decipher.

“Just a hip, hop, and scotch through this postmodern gluck,” he assures us, taking off with swift and decisive action, purposively diving through the air, legs stuck out like a freshly inked quill.

Hesitant, we jump together, and the whole world dissolves into inanity, a blur, everything nonsensical apart from us, our transfigured faces into obscene parodies of who we think we are. Notes of a simple, sickly music, funny nonetheless, serenades our ears, magnified by each note into a state of disproportion with the rest of our bodies. A light, dim at first, melds into purple, and Mt. Fuji, shimmering, then still, acts as a beacon to our travails. Soon the world resolves itself into a Hiroshige, then a Hokusai, with pitch-perfect clarity: Peterson, yukata-clad, greets us over a bowl of green tea, smiling, his teeth agleam.

“Damn, man, responsibility feels good,” he quips, at ease.

>> No.15066335

I think it's important we have a multiplicity of voices in this discussion. I, for one, have benefited immensely from the works of Dr. Peterson and Dr. Harris. They jump-started my intellectual journey, and for that I owe them eternal gratitude.

Picture me: a thin, bespectacled, acne-faced eighteen year-old in his first year of university. I had assumed sex was a rite of passage, that university dormitories were quasi-egalitarian escape pods from the ruthlessness of sixth form and secondary cool, places where through riotous debauchery and middle-class drug dabbling I would have sex with many fine women. As it turned out, the faux-camaraderie of halls masked the same Darwinian struggle for pussy, and my impossibility of getting any.

I barricaded myself in my room. I watched lots of anime, played video games, and spent inordinate amounts of time slack-jawed in front of Youtube. It was then, through the good grace of an algorithm, that I stumbled upon Jordan Peterson, and his words were world-shattering. "Take your pills," he intoned, and smiled. No. He didn't mean it literally - although yes, he also paradoxically did - but as a metaphor, a clever and pithy way of summarising Western thought. Cheerfully, I took the diazepam script my doctor had prescribed for my social anxiety, and soon I was feeling a whole lot better.

Everything got even better when I discovered Sam Harris, and his "Clear your mind" mantra. With a double-dose of my script, I could do just that. It wasn't long before I - to invoke the sort of spiritual terms Sam Harris trades in - "transcended" my carnal desire to sleep with women. I'm happier now than I've been in a long time, and it's thanks to these two remarkable men.

>> No.15066573

https://www.currentaffairs.org/2018/03/the-intellectual-we-deserve

>> No.15066588

>>15065041
When I read more and I realized all real intellectuals are leftists if not communists. Liberals and right wingers don't make good thinkers because they think for money.

>> No.15066598

from the get go, you lil zoomer retard

>> No.15066621

>>15065731
fake fallacy, by all means, you should use someones credentials as evidence of their position.

>> No.15066666

He got some good mental health advice imo. I took some useful tips from him.
Granted his political and philosophical view is not that deep - he's just the classic case of someone trying to juggle too many things, you can only become very good at one...

>> No.15066675

>>15066666
>Granted his political and philosophical view is not that deep - he's just the classic case of someone trying to juggle too many things, you can only become very good at one...
This is fair. I think Peterson's output has gotten worse and worse since he became famous.

>> No.15066686

>>15066666
>good mental health tips
>almost dies from going to fucking russia for medically induced coma brought on by benzo addiction


yeh, no

>> No.15066716

>>15066335
is this a pasta?

>> No.15066827

>>15066686
Eeh, this could have happened out of hubris.
The oldest mistake in the world: lawyers trying to defend themselves in court, doctors trying to cure their wounds.
He is no substitute from an actual psychologist though

>> No.15066831

>>15065041
I never esteemed them so much in the first place to have a difference in opinion. As far as I'm concerned I'm operating at a level commensurate or greater than theirs.

>> No.15066908

>>15065398
Peterson is a centrist boomer, there's a lot to hate

>> No.15066928

>>15066666
what mental health advice does he have other than clean your room and lobster dominance hierarchies?

>> No.15067096

>>15065227
>eighthwits seething this bard

>> No.15067135

>>15066928
Why don't you try asking Google this question? There are tons of JBP videos on psychology.

>> No.15067145

>>15065398
he doesn't believe in outrageous conspiracies, racism, specific desert superstitions, so these tards have to try character assassinate him

>> No.15067149

>>15065398
It's about proving that you're more smarter than other people. It has little to do with Peterson himself, much like left-wingers who screech about his supposed Nazism in order to demonstrate their own political enlightenment.

>> No.15067185

>>15065041
Maps of Meaning is surprisingly good. I'd recommend anyone into comparative myth to check it out.

>> No.15067229

>>15067135
I already did and all I got was half baked self-help shit like clean your room.

>> No.15067366

>>15066928
To get brain damage from detoxing off benzo's in a backwater russian clinic

>> No.15067374
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15067374

>>15067185
>maps of meaning is surprisingly good

https://clyp.it/z1kjixdv

>> No.15067378

>>15067185
maps of meaning is babble

>> No.15067385

>>15067374
This is based. Have you not read any psychoanalysis before?

>> No.15067393

>>15067378
So?

>> No.15067448

>>15065220
>>done nothing wrong
Outside of his wheelhouse(psychology) he's an asshat and a bore. He's the conservative equivalent of a pedantic liberal academic.

>> No.15067457

>>15065398
>I don't understand the hate for Peterson
He's an asshole, that talks about things he doesn't understand, and apes that confusion as mild intellectual superiority. 'What? You disagree with me? That's your marxist feminist doublespeak talking, not my conservative bias blinding me to any of your arguments'. He's Ben Shapiro 2.0

>> No.15067467

>>15066928
The "clean your room" ideology has probably influenced hundreds of thousands of people to improve, or at least think about things in a more critical way.
>If you can't even keep your room clean, you probably shouldn't be trying to change the world.
Fairly pithy little adage.

>> No.15067481

>>15066928
That's it. He's filling a very specific niche which is affirmation for young men. Very few men have had anyone tell them 'it's okay to feel bad, but you shoudl still pick yourself up'. Unfortunately the rest of his views boil down to 'liberal media is evil because one time I told a female she wasn't as smart as a man and they got angry, proving my point.'

>> No.15067496

>>15065398
Peterson is an awful authority for psychoanalysis. You would be better off watching School of Life videos on Freud and Lacan than watching Peterson's uninformed and frankly distorted understanding of psychoanalysis.

>> No.15067510

>>15067481
>Very few men have had anyone tell them 'it's okay to feel bad, but you shoudl still pick yourself up


Every self help book ever. just without post modern neo marxist shite

>> No.15067530

>>15067510
>Every self help book ever
Yeah, I know, that's why he's so popular despite having really moronic conservative views. He's the incel equivalent of healing crystal peddlers.

>> No.15067715

>>15065398
hate? more like professional shitposters or ai's paid to keep jp in focus.

>> No.15067936

If Peterson lived what he preached, he wouldn't be in rehab

>> No.15068234

>>15065041
I re-heard the first Bible lecture series and it starts really promising, but then he begins inserting Canado-Anglo-cuckoldry in it and it derails the whole thing
>hurr durr
>Marduk has the names of many gods, which were gods of other tribes
Oh so did the Babylonians crush the rival tribes, raped their women and stole their gods?
>Nooooo, the tribes like, got together and cooperated; just like individuals in the freemarket cooperate in my favorite Anglo, Classical Liberal theories (reads in JP's high-pitched, nasal, cucked voice)
He can't get himself to SAY that people commited violence against each other (unless its the NAAAATZEES), that human history is one brutality and conquest, of one group subjecting, imposing their will over others (because again that sounds a lot like the NIIIAAAAATZZEEES)
A cuck indeed.

>> No.15068306

Peterson isn't wrong, he just uses the wrong labels to describe things

>> No.15068346

>>15068306
got an example?

>> No.15068358

>>15068346
Not him but, neo-Marxists?

>> No.15068372
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15068372

>>15065041

i was actually smart enough not to expose myself to weirdo internet groomers for the entirety of my childhood. i'm a better person for it.

>> No.15069054

>>15065398
He teaches at university of Toronto, not Harvard.

I guess I'd have a better opinion of him if didn't play postmodern word games when people ask him a straight question.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAbWCaBVdUM

And it didn't endear me to him that he claimed to not sleep for a whole month after a glass of cider.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPof3taFRto

>> No.15069195

>>15065689
Oh my God, I want to tell this guy to shut the fuck up. I'm so sick of psueds dressing up fancy words to hide they're vapid and cowardly opinions.
>Hurt Durr life for your children is gonna be hard because Society
At least society isn't making kids go work at the coal mines at 8 years old. And if society does get worse I'm not gonna tap out like a little bitch. I'm going to fight to make it better.

>> No.15069198

>>15065041
i liked jbp for years but his writing is atrocious. still a positive force in life though.

>> No.15069255

>>15068234
It doesn't start off promising at all, his exegesis is entirely based on the KJV text, he talks about the etymology of the English words it uses as if that reveals some deep true meaning. It's as if he doesn't know it's a translation. He also repeatedly says he's worked out what something means and that it's genius and amazing, but he doesn't explain and says he'll address it later. The worst was him using modern era illustrations as if they were primary sources that explain the text. He brings up a picture of Moses carrying the commandments and says "hey bucko look there's a lightning bolt in the background, that's the terrifying consequence of not obeying the law, you'll be destroyed and that's a bloody fact". He confuses the Jewish concept of religious law with the Greek concept of natural law. The ten commandments are part of God's rules for his chosen people, it specifically sets them apart and the rules preserve their holiness, they are totally different to the universal law of the Greeks. The fact that he makes such basic mistakes tells me he just reads the KJV and whatever pops into his head is uncritically accepted as the deep hidden meaning of the text.

>> No.15069280

>>15066621
the appeal to authority fallacy does occur in instances where a person of authority states his/her opinion to be correct, and you side with him/her based on credentials and prior experience rather than reason and evidence

>> No.15069297

>>15065041
Ten minutes after I heard of them, but I'm an old man.

>> No.15069314

>>15069054
He used to teach at Harvard

>> No.15069316

>>15065398
He'd be fine if he stayed in his lane. Even a quite intelligent professor of psychology is going to know relatively little about, say, biochemistry. Peterson earns some ire for constantly sticking his feet in his mouth on things he clearly knows nothing. Prior to listening to Peterson, I would have suspected a professor of psychology may know something about cultural theory and criticism, but I was gravely mistaken.

>> No.15069322

>>15065454
That book is also deeply unempirical. It's as if it was written by a person who had only read about the scientific method in a book, which I suspect it was.

>> No.15069345

>>15066335
>Dr. Harris
Holy shit, he actually has a PhD. Does the University of Los Angeles just give those out to anyone?

>> No.15069349

>>15066588
The leftists and communists do too. The academy is a marketplace as real as any other.

>> No.15069353

>>15066928
Wash your dick?

>> No.15069356

>>15067467
But doesn't that stance sort of assume I can't clean my room instead of the likely counter that I'd rather not clean my room because I feel there are better uses of my time? That such a proclamation can have a premise kicked out from under it so easily removes all its teeth.

>> No.15069362

>>15067510
Every parent, grandparent, aunt, and uncle too. Every friend. Every friend's parent. Never mind every self help book. Boys are always hearing this directly from the adults in their lives. That they needed Peterson to get it in gear suggests deeply held pathologies he isn't qualified to address.

>> No.15069366

>>15068358
That's not so bad, even if no one calls themselves neo-Marxist. The real problem was adding "postmodern" into the mix.

>> No.15069369

>>15069195
>At least society isn't making kids go work at the coal mines at 8 years old.
It did. Not that long ago, even.

>> No.15069429

>>15069255
There are some leading ideas that I find interesting. Like
>we have been observing each other, trying to figure out how to live life since forever
>artists abstract what they observe and display a life that is not of anyone in particular but of everyone
>myths work like that too
>there are unconscious, and even pre-human layers of that
>there is a sort of natural selection of which patterns of behavior work and hence which stories get told

>> No.15069469

>>15069429
>patterns of behavior work and hence which stories get told
It's a shame that this only works unconsciouly. As soon as modern man becomes conscious of this, he starts to design artificial stories with a view to dictate certain patterns of behavior which are not organic outgrowths from the community, but utopian creations of individuals and/or more shadowy forces, and deleting competing stories from the memesphere.

>> No.15069517 [DELETED] 

>>15069469
Hence the death of literature, etc. Artists are no longer the mouthpieces of their community. Artists, specially woke so-called "artists", are tools for some agenda or other. In Classical Greece, the community saw itself on the stage. The artist was the voice of the community, he spoke what they thought but couldn't articulate, but this was only possible because the artist was rooted in, and listened to, the community, and vice-versa. It was a dialogue. But the modern artists is never trying to have a conversation with the audience, he always is trying to push them somewhere. He is the "woke" college-educated enlightened being trying to push the unenlightened masses in the direction of "progress". He is in fact just working for the status quo and transmitting his status quo college "education" (=ideology) to the lower cogs of the system. Either that or he just wants to sell them stuff. End of the rant.

>> No.15069528

>>15069517
How fucking naive are you, if anything, art has been allowed to be far less political in the past 200 years, and more than at any time in western society since idk the fucking bronze age. Just because you're removed from those politics it doesn't mean shit.

>> No.15069537

>>15069517
Artists have always been tools of the state, or the wealthy, or the wise man. Artists have never had agency, and you're a fool to think otherwise.

>> No.15069546

>>15069469
Hence the death of literature, etc. Artists are no longer the mouthpieces of their community. Artists, specially woke so-called "artists", are tools for some agenda or other. In Classical Greece, the community saw itself on the stage. The artist was the voice of the community, he spoke what they thought but couldn't articulate, but this was only possible because the artist was rooted in, and listened to, the community, and vice-versa. It was a dialogue. But the modern artists is never trying to have a conversation with the audience, he is always trying to push the audience in a certain direction. He is the "woke" college-educated enlightened being (self-)appointed to lead the unenlightened masses in the direction of "progress" or whatever else. He is in fact just working for the status quo and transmitting his status quo college "education" (= ideology) to the lower cogs of the system. Either that or he just wants to make money (which is the least of all evils). End of the rant.

>> No.15069564

>>15069528
>naive
>art has been allowed to be far less political
Lol. If you can't see the relentless political messaging in every movie and tv series that comes out then I don't know what to say. Perhaps you just agree with the politics and you don't like that people point it out.

>>15069537
>Artists have always been tools of the state, or the wealthy, or the wise man.
Fair enough. I think this would add a layer of complexity to JP's analysis, if he recognized the play of social and political forces in society.