/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.15050226]

What /lit/ will convince me God exists?

[Anonymous No.15050236]

Augustinian confessions might help. Although faith is granted by grace, not only sheer human action

[Anonymous No.15050250]

if you actually don't believe in god then nothing. if you're just having a crisis of faith or something then maybe some theology bullshit will do the trick

[Anonymous No.15050252]

>>15050226
5 proofs of the existence of God by Feser
Shankara's Upanishad commentaries

[Anonymous No.15050258]

Plato's Phaedo doesn't prove that the Abrahamic God exists, but he proves that there is without doubt a creator and an afterlife.

[Anonymous No.15050262]

The science of God

[Anonymous No.15050267]

>>15050226
This comment is proof of the existence of God.

[Anonymous No.15050269]

>>15050226

[Anonymous No.15050270]

>>15050258
plato's afterlife was reincarnation thoguh

[Anonymous No.15050309]

>>15050252
>5 proofs of the existence of God by Feser
geez how do you find these? genuinely asking. good rec

[Anonymous No.15050331]

>>15050226
The mind-body problem. Also read biblical prophecies and their fulfillment

[Anonymous No.15050339]

>>15050309
>geez how do you find these?
by lurking and posting on /lit/ 24/7 of course!
>>15050270
this

[Anonymous No.15050358]

>>15050339
seriously, what's the best way finding books good books about a particular subject? like for this one, if I search for similar themed books on google, trillion garbage results would've turned up and this book wouldn't catch my eye.

[Anonymous No.15050369]

>>15050226

[Anonymous No.15050374]

>>15050358
>seriously, what's the best way finding books good books about a particular subject?
just make a thread on /lit/ asking about it, that's how you learned about Feser's book from me

[Anonymous No.15050380]

>>15050374
I can't come here always, there must be an alternate way.

[Anonymous No.15050731]

>>15050226
lol no; it's something you can't be convinced of, you have to find it yourself. Either you go directly to God, or he comes after you; nobody can "convince" you of anything.

[Anonymous No.15050741]

>>15050358
Don’t be a retard and learn how machine algorithms operate and who target audiences are.

[Anonymous No.15050897]

TBK worked for me.

[Anonymous No.15050914]

>>15050226
Assume there is no God.
Contradiction.
Therefore, there exists a God.
QED

[Anonymous No.15050962]

Plato's dialogues telling the story of the trial and death of Socrates
The Ethics

[Nemo !!GgBWHLRiayD No.15050969]

Representation/imagination of God is contingent on type and degree of revelation of its ontological truth, which, therefore, can only be evinced/realized immanently - through intuitive apprehension, and via recognition/understanding - and rationally affirmed, not emmanently convinced.

[Anonymous No.15050979]

>>15050252
>Feser

[Anonymous No.15050984]

>>15050236
therefore lack of faith cannot be punished, defeating the main recruiting force for the cult

[Anonymous No.15051002]

>>15050969
>whatever fefe I get means god
the absolute state of religion in 2020

[Anonymous No.15051046]

>>15050984
no because faith can be rejected. If God gives you thirty chances for faith and you reject them all and then he doesn't offer you one when someone offers a proof, that's your fault. You still rejected him.

[Anonymous No.15051056]

>>15050309
If you actually want thomist philosophy recs, this is the place to be.
https://thomisticinstitute.org/recommended-reading

[Anonymous No.15051073]

>>15050380
Charts are good if you can find a good one. this chart in particular is my favorite.

[Anonymous No.15051083]

>>15051046
So it still relies on sheer human action of accepting faith, not on the grace of it being granted?

[Anonymous No.15051084]

>>15050226

[Anonymous No.15051087]

>>15051083
>they’re mutually exclusive
>it’s one or the other

[Anonymous No.15051091]

>>15050226
Too bad she has brown eyes. This coffee tastes like shit

[Anonymous No.15051105]

>>15051083
The grace is the only thing that allows the act of the will. So it isn't just human action. It's like being offered a gift. you can refuse the gift, but without the offer you could never even refuse.

[Anonymous No.15051115]

>>15051087
Surely god knows the threshold at which I would convert, no? Then either he meets that or he doesn't, or he is incapable of knowing or doing so. So which is it?

[Anonymous No.15051139]

>>15051105
First of all, it's only been other human beings that have offered this "gift", and second, what is the consequence if I reject their gift? Is it punishment? Because that would fall closer to the category of blackmail than a gift

[Anonymous No.15051199]

>>15050267
based

[Anonymous No.15051204]

>>15051115
You seem to think the “grace” of which the other anon speaks is some heavy handed sign from god. It’s not about a direct sign that crosses some “threshold” to have the power to convert you. It’s how willing you are to open your heart and mind to the idea of god and to see him in all things around you. Also there are other concepts of god than the Christian god and your personal perception of it the op didn’t specify. I’m not a Christian or a practitioner of any other religion btw

[Anonymous No.15051328]

>>15050226
Only honest and humble prayer can do that. Faith is a change of heart first. You can't intellectualize your way to God.

[Anonymous No.15051413]

>>15050226
For the start of the journey it is expedient to search out the most virtuous and wise of people who claim to know God. Different people resonate better with certain kinds of people, it is God who will provide a way. It is foolish and lazy to think that reading other people's hard works in their search and discovery of God is alone and of itself going to make you see the truth, though as much as God is in them you might see God in some manner.There are people that devote their entire lives to trying to find out the truth of God. Christian Mystics tend to warn people that if they're not serious then they need to stop messing around with things that they are Unworthy of. Some minds are predisposed to accept whatever silly apologetic arguments they may hear for or against God. Faith can only be belief and Hope. Spiritual life and desire to know God more proves the belief and the faith and leads to true knowledge.

[Anonymous No.15051443]

>>15051115
If he provided the evidence needed to persuade you, you wouldn't be choosing freely, you'd just be following the evidence to a conclusion. You're supposed to humble yourself and try to cleanse your life first. God only revealed himself directly to his most devoted servants, who already had super strong faith.

You need to prove yourself to God, not the other way around.

[Anonymous No.15051470]

Crime and Punishment, The Brothers Karamazov, the Bhagavad Gita, The Screwtape Letters, and The Great Divorce.

[Anonymous No.15051494]

>>15051413
> Christian Mystics tend to warn people that if they're not serious then they need to stop messing around with things that they are Unworthy of.

What's the risk? Brother Lawrence's Practice of the Presence of God seems fairly straightforward.

[Anonymous No.15051527]

>>15050369
Based berdyaev. It is spiritual Freedom that leads to God, Not the force and coercion of our natural objectified reality where facts of how material objects function are the ultimate truth of atheist.

[Anonymous No.15051569]

>>15050270
As is the real afterlife

[Anonymous No.15051591]

>>15051494
They're just jealous fellows that don't want you to seek God half-heartedly. There are dangers in the spiritual world but that is something all of us face on a daily basis.

[Anonymous No.15051619]

>>15050226
The Reality of God
1:2.1.God is primal reality in the spirit world; God is the source of truth in the mind spheres; God overshadows all throughout the material realms. To all created intelligences God is a personality, and to the universe of universes he is the First Source and Center of eternal reality. God is neither manlike nor machinelike. The First Father is universal spirit, eternal truth, infinite reality, and father personality.

1:2.2.The eternal God is infinitely more than reality idealized or the universe personalized. God is not simply the supreme desire of man, the mortal quest objectified. Neither is God merely a concept, the power-potential of righteousness. The Universal Father is not a synonym for nature, neither is he natural law personified. God is a transcendent reality, not merely man's traditional concept of supreme values. God is not a psychological focalization of spiritual meanings, neither is he "the noblest work of man." God may be any or all of these concepts in the minds of men, but he is more. He is a saving person and a loving Father to all who enjoy spiritual peace on earth, and who crave to experience personality survival in death.

1:2.3.The actuality of the existence of God is demonstrated in human experience by the indwelling of the divine presence, the spirit Monitor sent from Paradise to live in the mortal mind of man and there to assist in evolving the immortal soul of eternal survival. The presence of this divine Adjuster in the human mind is disclosed by three experiential phenomena:

1:2.4.1. The intellectual capacity for knowing God—God-consciousness.
1:2.5.2. The spiritual urge to find God—God-seeking.
1:2.6.3. The personality craving to be like God—the wholehearted desire to do the Father's will.

[Anonymous No.15051624]

Let me present an allegory.

There once was a pope and a cardinal who could never come to an agreement. One day the cardinal came to the pope and said, "Venerable Francis, for the love of God, turn a blind eye to this flute player. I know him! I know that he comes in every Sunday to your seminary and sings in the choir." The pope said, "Never mind him. He's just some careless preacher!" "No," said the cardinal, "he's a cardinal!" And he said, "Come, my lord, and have a look. See, he actually sings—it's a choir he sings in! Look at those bawdy tunes he sings!" And, for the first time, Don Pepin felt that he had become religious. He held out his hand to the cardinal, and said in a loud voice, "I'm religious! I am a Christian! I believe that Christ died and rose again! And I believe that the cardinal and Pope Francis are the same person!" His hands trembled at the suggestion, but the cardinal's eyes gleamed. "Don Pepin," he said slowly, "you understand the system of the church, as I know it. You have had no instruction in it, except the formal, scientific, wise teachings. What can I say to you but respect?" The pope seemed pleased with this exchange. "Well," he said to the cardinal, "it's a good thing Don Pepin's flute is holy!" With that, the cardinal knelt on one knee and began to pray. Then he knelt on his other knee and asked the pope if he knew a man named Christophorus Donatia of Priena. "Yes, but he's an impostor," said the pope, "So am I, but I've been baptized in a church." The palace roared with laughter and Don Pepin was not executed that day.

[Anonymous No.15051876]

>>15051443
So your position is that you need to surrender your mental faculties and base your beliefs, not on evidence, but on feelings?

[Anonymous No.15051888]

>>15051204
Forming a belief is the consequence of becoming convinced it is true, which necessitates it crossing the threshold of what would be convincing for a particular person. Curiously this process most often happens during a person's childhood when authority figures like parents convince the child of certain propositions. Interesting, no?

[Anonymous No.15052042]

>>15051888
>Forming a belief is the consequence of becoming convinced it is true, which necessitates it crossing the threshold of what would be convincing for a particular person.
Reread the other posts, reread them again and then once you comprehend them we can continue this conversation since you seem adamant on repeating the same statements over and over without actually addressing what has been said. Also checked and waste of digits

[Anonymous No.15052111]

>>15052042
>no response
Sorry you can't even follow a conversation

[Anonymous No.15052113]

>>15051876
Reason is incapable of accounting for the important bits of reality. Caring about anything is not a rational thing, for example, which includes caring for whether something can be quantified or not.

Reason is a mighty hammer, but having a mighty hammer tells you nothing about what to use it for.

[Anonymous No.15052128]

>>15051888
You're surrounded by ex-atheists here. This is not a faith we acquired in childhood.

[Anonymous No.15052140]

>>15050226
http://esotericawakening.com/what-is-reality-the-holofractal-universe

/thread

[Anonymous No.15052152]

life experience will convince you better than any dogma

[Anonymous No.15052155]

>>15052111
>repeats the same statements over and over
>conversation
Would you like to ignore everything I and the other anon said and repeat the narrow minded view that to believe you have to be directly convinced until past a certain threshold? I didn’t get that the first three times you posted it with no acknowledgment of anything else said

[Anonymous No.15052163]

>>15052113
Caring is an evolutionary trait

[Anonymous No.15052215]

>>15052163
Thus beyond reason. It's something that springs unbidden into your mind, not a fact of reality that you have to care about anything in particular. There is no physics of caring, and physics is the only science.

[Anonymous No.15052218]

>>15052128
The majority come from Christian countries and either were Christian but lost it at some point or were still raised only familiar with Christianity

[Anonymous No.15052235]

>>15052215
Just because you don't understand evolution doesn't mean it's beyond reason.

[Anonymous No.15052237]

>>15052215
There is a biology of caring, and it has been extensively studied

[Anonymous No.15052241]

>>15050226
I just think that death is permanent, no coming back, and that it is inevitable. For some reason I feel like I'll live forever, but death is so freaking scary man... I wish it was eternal darkness but I am afraid it is more than that, that's what I fear.

[Anonymous No.15052250]

>>15052241
Boo hoo

[Anonymous No.15052251]

>>15052155
The response was "free choice", how do you not understand that the "free" choice is informed by pre-existing conditions?

[Anonymous No.15052252]

>>15052250
Yes the old stop being such a baby argument, a classic.

[Anonymous No.15052260]

>>15052241
>using a conceptual framework of time
Why would you think time is a meaningful concept for the dead?

[Anonymous No.15052259]

>>15052252
Why do you wanna act like a baby

[Anonymous No.15052261]

>>15051569
based

[Anonymous No.15052277]

>>15051569
Cringe

[Anonymous No.15052295]

>>15050226
Ed Feser and Lane Craig are some of the best sophists around, highly recommended

[Anonymous No.15052297]

>>15052259
Because I haven't read the 48 laws of power and I have no idea how to appear cool.

[Anonymous No.15052320]

>>15052260
Because time exists whether you are alive or not dumbass.

[Anonymous No.15052321]

>>15051876
>So your position is that you need to surrender your mental faculties and base your beliefs, not on evidence, but on feelings?
You have a feeling for what evidence is evidence to you and what is not. Human Feelings are more ancient than human logic is and you would be a fool to not see that behind your logic and your reason are emotions and biological programs of various sorts. Yet in the spirit world whatever you call Master is the truth of your being. What kind of being you are implies the kinds you also hang around and are Kindred with. But it's a dynamic process in the spiritual world. all kinds of different things are trying to pull you in different directions. So we have a lot of freedom and plenty of potential. Everything I say about the spiritual world can be experienced phenomenologically.

[Anonymous No.15052329]

>>15052297
You should come to Sunday school with me. Pastor Rick teaches us that what's really cool is opening our hearts to the light of the gospels and pledging allegiance to Israel.

[Anonymous No.15052350]

>>15052321
I can't get past
>you can't use reason to get to my point but you have to trust me because...

[Anonymous No.15052378]

>>15052350
What are you talkin about? I never said not to use reason. Everyone uses reason because we're all humans. Now not all of us have the kind of reason that you have, because it's not reasonable to us.

[Anonymous No.15052392]

>>15052378
Explain to me why you believe in the spirit world.

[Anonymous No.15052397]

>>15052350
I want you to try this. Pay attention to what goes on in yourself. Try not to think and see how many different influences you experience throughout the day. Just pay attention to what happens to you. pay attention to all the things you build up in your head.

[Anonymous No.15052409]

>>15052397
Tell me what you expect me to learn from this.

[Anonymous No.15052429]

>>15050270
But in the Phaedo his main focus is on the immortality of the soul, not on what exactly happens after death

[Anonymous No.15052459]

>>15052409
You're going to see God.

[Anonymous No.15052463]

>>15050226
You can be convinced intellectually that God exists quite easily, but it won't do very much to actually affect you or give you a genuine religious feeling that I imagine people 500 years ago could have had. Everything now is far too contemporary and just the idea of getting on your knees and clasping your hands together to talk to God seems ridiculous.

That being said I recommend Jay Dyers channel on Youtube, ignore Thomists.

[Anonymous No.15052475]

>>15052463
I've watched all his videos. Biggest sophist on youtube.

[Anonymous No.15052493]

>>15052475
Proof? Without linking to laughable tradcath youtube documentaries

[Anonymous No.15052501]

>>15052493
Proof of what?

[Anonymous No.15052510]

>>15052501
That he's a sophist

[Anonymous No.15052568]

>>15052237
>>15052235
Evolution is all map, not territory. You want to take a reductionist approach to dismiss certain things, but then arbitrarily stop the reduction at the 'biology' abstraction layer. There are no neurons. There is no DNA. There are only quarks and the other subatomic particles.

Furthermore, even playing along with your arbitrarily chosen abstraction, there's nothing empirical about caring. A natural proclivity to care about X, Y, Z isn't 2 + 2 = 4, where humans have no choice but to care about those things because it is objectively true that one must care about those things, humans have been incredibly mutable regarding the things they care about, due to the inherent subjectivity of caring.

An attachment to reason is irrational, like every attachment. Literally, thinking you're being logical makes you feel something you arbitrarily prefer to the feeling you get when you think you're being illogical. There is nothing more to your assertion that only what is objective, quantifiable, is real: it is an emotional attachment. Reason has boundaries, and truth goes on past those boundaries.

[Anonymous No.15052573]

>>15052510
Quote any argument he's made and I'll destroy it.
For example, he once claimed the fish symbol for Jesus was shaped like DNA.

[Anonymous No.15052601]

>>15052568
Just because something is subjective doesn't mean it can't be studied and conclusions can't be drawn.
But the main point is if you want to dismiss reason from your argument for God then why should anyone believe you?

[Anonymous No.15052607]

>>15052573
Destroy TAG then, since that's his main argument.

[Anonymous No.15052617]

>>15052218
Many of us are not Christian, or not just Christian. I don't see what it changes though: I was atheist for almost 20 years, until I realized that reason and empiricism are limited, incapable of providing the entire truth.

[Anonymous No.15052633]

>>15052617
Most are Christian. Don't be silly.

[Anonymous No.15052645]

>>15050226
The Qur'an.

[Anonymous No.15052683]

>>15052601
I don't think it's important for anyone to believe. Things will work out in the end regardless. It's like Neo in The Matrix: if you're not following the white rabbit, you won't get the red pill, and that's fine. You should be aware though, that you're not half as rational as you think you are. No one is. Nobody has produced an objective ethics, because it is impossible. No amount of research and reasoning will produce a single ethical conclusion that everyone has to accept in the same way there is no choice but to accept 2 + 2 = 4.

[Anonymous No.15052708]

>>15052683
Heh, you don't have to believe me. I'm like Keanu Reeves in the Matrix. I'm what you'd call "redpilled."

[Anonymous No.15052748]

>>15052607
The transcendental argument for god reeks of circular reasoning. Rather than arguing that the world was created by a supreme being (despite the patristic evidence), or that a god never existed (historical evidence is against them), or that no creator ever exists (his argument is flawed and unproved, see below), such a god is invoked to explain away everything that is. What to do with religious apologists and believers who deny the existence of a supreme being, but who proclaim that an imaginary non-existent being (god) has all the powers of an imaginary supreme being (supernaturalist god)? Does it not also make a good argument against them? God Is Nowhere does not agree that the "god of the gaps" argument is an argument. It's like taking a pollo asado sandwich and dousing it in ranchero sauce and shouting, "I did not add ranchero sauce, that's why it tastes good!" Meanwhile, critics of these arguments claim that the questions about the existence of God all amount to this one question: Why, if there is no God, does the universe exist? I'd like to submit that the people who raised this question have a very good case. That is, if you take seriously one of the great problems in science — the problem of falsifiability — you have to ask why the universe exists as per a God would of done it already.

[Anonymous No.15052827]

>>15052392
Phenomenologically i experience it just like everyone else does. I've had strange experiences. I learned from people who spoke about it and it meshes with my own experience. I seem to be discovering laws of the spiritual world. A minor spiritual experience I had was when I was walking home at night and I felt a strong presence of evil Rush into myself and my general environment all the sudden. Turns out two people wanted to beat me up and rob me. My jaw hurt for months afterwards. A reliable spiritual experience I have is in the manner I interpret my spiritual texts. By praying and not thinking and waiting for god to teach me how to understand something in the Bible I gain fresh insights depending on which good spirit he wishes to help teach me. Very many things in my life have an ordering that could be called synchronous. My life is directed by God's Providence. of course if you are an atheist you will interpret my experience of reality in the spirit of an atheist. I don't reject the physical mechanisms by which things happen. I'm saying there's another reality making Impressions upon and having a back and forth with us.

[Anonymous No.15052831]

>>15051139
no, the actual gift I'm talking about is the possibility of you accepting God. You could come up against 1000 people who offer Christianity too you, but if God only gives you the grace 1 time you only really had 1 chance. As for punishment, you are rejecting the only truly good thing in existence. If you found perfect eternal happiness and it was offered too you, then doesn't it logically follow that you will live without eternal happiness?

[Anonymous No.15052879]

>>15052748
People always bring up circular reasoning as if it's a defeater to TAG when the problem of circularity is literally part of the argument, TAG points out that ALL worldviews are inevitably circular, so to point out that TAG is circular is to miss the point entirely, the question is: if all worldviews are circular, how do we know what is true? That's why TAG argues not for a evidentialist perspective but a coherentist one. It's not that we should reject evidence, but that we have to deal with the problem that we have to have a framework to interpret evidence correctly first. If our framework is incoherent and self contradictory then it really doesn't matter what evidence you have for and against anything.

Also, are you quoting all that from somewhere? It was kind of difficult to follow without context.

[Anonymous No.15052887]

>>15052831
Strange how God never offered this gift to the billions who never knew Christians, and how he only offers it to Christians and those who knew Christians.

[Anonymous No.15052912]

>>15051046
>this is what religious brainlets believe

[Anonymous No.15052921]

>>15052409
Nothing I guess since you already decided what it is. But it is nice to see things that influence you. It's nice to train yourself to not automatically accept the first thing that goes through you. You can even try to pray to God and ask him to give you better Angelic influences and you could try to be open to them. You could try to empirically test if the spiritual world seems real. the spiritual world and subjectivity are the same thing. We have subjectivity because we are spirits.

[Anonymous No.15052924]

>>15052879
Christian here. The circularity of the TAG certainly matters because there are already some circumstances in which it is a very bad argument. But as a generalization, it's obviously sound. Of course, that doesn't mean that we should build temples and masquerade as nuns to appease a pantheistic deity. But it does mean that it's definitely worth thinking about the big picture before going down the path of rejecting anything because we find a trivial detail about its execution annoying. A little brown powder on your fruit is going to be a bummer in no time, but a giant hammerhead shark that gets eaten by a mother dolphin and marinates in the aquarium for a month? Or a spherical pile of chocolate that a "drowned" giraffe turns into all the sudden? You probably have no idea what the difference is between these things. But if you had to guess which one that is, well, you'd do better than I will.

Some things that we do have almost innate "logic" to them, such as a dying shark beating up a huge whale in the womb, are simply accidents of nature (metaphorically speaking, of course). Of course, if we chose not to believe in the TAG (at least as Dyer prescribes), we're certainly the worst off for it?

[Anonymous No.15052928]

>>15050226
If you believe in God check yourself in to a mental hospital ASAP

[Anonymous No.15052954]

>>15052921
I've done those things. I grew up as a Christian. I understand we don't know everything and that reason can't explain evwrything. That's part of the reason I'm agnostic.
Also quit with the "well I can't help you find God because you already decided" rhetoric.

[Anonymous No.15052958]

>>15052887
What he says is true but he doesn't understand that it's according to being. The Holy Spirit even spoke through an enemy in the New Testament. It doesn't mean that that guy knew what was going on, only that truth was therein.

[Anonymous No.15052970]

>>15052958
So non-Christians can go to heaven?

[~[[[-_-]]]~ Urantia Thought Ad(...) No.15052975]

>>15052928
The majority of well-conducted studies found that higher levels of religious involvement are positively associated with indicators of psychological well-being (life satisfaction, happiness, positive affect, and higher morale) and with less depression, suicidal thoughts and behavior, drug/alcohol use/abuse.

CONCLUSIONS:
There is evidence that religious involvement is usually associated with better mental health.

Religiousness and mental health: a review.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16924349

[Anonymous No.15052977]

>>15052827
How do you know you are experiencing a "spirit world" instead of being delusional or mentally ill? I am not being snide, your description so far sounds a lot like schizophrenia

[~[[[-_-]]]~ Urantia Thought Ad(...) No.15052985]

>>15052928
The amassed research indicates that higher levels of religious belief and practice (known in social science as "religiosity") is associated with better mental health. In particular, the research suggests that higher levels of religiosity are associated with lower rates of depression, anxiety, substance use disorder, and suicidal behavior. Religiosity is also associated with better physical health and subjective well-being.

Likewise, research indicates that religiosity can enhance recovery from mental illness, aiding in the healing process. For example, one classic research study shows that recovery from severe mental illnesses such as schizophrenia is better in countries with higher levels of religiosity.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/talking-about-men/201712/religion-and-mental-health-what-is-the-link

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.15052991]

What /lit/ will convince me Popes exists?

[Anonymous No.15053003]

>>15052991
The Rape of the Lock

[Anonymous No.15053030]

>>15052954
I say you already decided because people already have their own perceptions about things and I find it's hard to get them to see in a different way. And I was making a mistake in fighting common abstractions I'm used to arguing against. Sorry for the tunnel vision. I also can't properly judge discursive reality as to why something is the way it is for you. It's not up to me how God wants to play with you. I cannot confess to understand the mystery that you are.

[Anonymous No.15053038]

>>15050226
God almost certainly exists. The Christian God, I don't know

[Anonymous No.15053052]

>>15052970
A Christian is not one of mere confession. The New Testament plainly teaches this. But there are a lot of Christians that are very tribalistic and have a crude understanding of God. I can't blame them too much though. it's impossible to know God without God. that's why it doesn't matter how many contradictions are in the Bible since they're only resolved spiritually in divine wisdom.

[Anonymous No.15053079]

>>15050226

[Anonymous No.15053119]

>>15052977
I get you. Actually to some degree you have to turn Schizo. Dream-like thinking and Pattern identification seem to give more room for spiritual perceptions. I know a few schizos and though they certainly have a mental illness I noticed they also have spiritual experiences. They are more easily influenced by spirits. Everything for them is more intense.

[Anonymous No.15053122]

>>15052568
Death is the arbiter though. Groups that had a proclivity to care had better synergy and thus out-competed their rival groups and propagated while those with less caring failed to survive. This goes as well with the ability to think abstractedly, in our case particularly when hunting/stalking prey

We also see how certain errors in judgement were favored in our past and thus continue to manifest in our present. If you were out with your tribe mates, and there was a rustle in the bushes, it is in your best interest to assume it is a predator, since getting a head start in running may save you, but being mistaken loses you nothing. Conversely, if you assume the rustle is just wind, and are wrong, you will likely be killed

This demonstrates that our species developed a bias in favor or assuming agency before and even without proof.

[Anonymous No.15053141]

>>15053119
They're scizophrenic you retard

[Anonymous No.15053163]

>>15053141
So were the prophets and Jesus and anyone who's had a vision and everyone that does psychedelics.

[Anonymous No.15053220]

>>15053122
The way I see it is God with his omnipotence creates a Reality in himself and eventually he can find something to play with that have all these neat attributes to them. So he can start revealing himself through the medium that they are, using all their natural qualities to manifest a Revelation about himself. but in the end really all he's doing is playing a game with himself.

[Anonymous No.15053309]

>>15053220
Why would an all-powerful entity need to "reveal himself" and "play with himself?"

[Anonymous No.15053364]

>>15052708
Not just me, there are many others currently, and many, many more throughout history. If your understanding of reality is working for you, I see no reason to seek elsewhere.

[Anonymous No.15053391]

>>15052977
Not him, but schizos have hallucinations, visual and auditory ones. You should notice his description did not include such things.

[Anonymous No.15053426]

>>15053122
> Death
> Groups
> Proclivity
> Synergy

Notice how deeply mired in mind abstractions you are. All of those things are useful models to be sure, but they're not fundamental reality.

[Anonymous No.15053443]

>>15050226
The Screwtape Letters

[Anonymous No.15053450]

How do I stop being bitter towards God bros

[Anonymous No.15053481]

>>15050979
>>feser

[Anonymous No.15053517]

>>15053309
He overflows, like the sun. It's not a need, anyone who has been in flow state knows what it's like.

[Anonymous No.15053526]

>>15052928
this is the favorite utterance of the dunning kruger man

[Anonymous No.15053532]

>>15053526
Take your pills schizo youre not smart youre blind

[Anonymous No.15053535]

>>15053450
Are you bitter towards the sun for the existence of skin cancer? Because you can't look at it? It's the same with God. You can also draw some satanic comfort in the knowledge that whatever you have suffered, God has as well, the kingdom of God being within you.

[Anonymous No.15053599]

>>15050226
try as hard as you want - you'll never force yourself into believing god exists. faith will come to you or it won't

[Anonymous No.15053663]

>>15053309
That's like asking "why is touhou music based?" https://youtu.be/5D3skhxxkXY

[Anonymous No.15053749]

>>15053517
Overflows what?

[Anonymous No.15053837]

>>15052985
>inadvertently proving religion is pure cope

[Anonymous No.15053851]

>>15053391
The intense feeling of an "evil" presence can absolutely be in line with a person experiencing schizophrenia. There doesn't need to be direct visual and auditory hallucinations for someone to develop a paranoid psychosis

[Anonymous No.15053862]

>>15053220
>Reality is literally god's mental masturbation
now this is a hot take

[Anonymous No.15053910]

>>15053851
Funny that I said right after I felt that I got jumped by two people. I could see how biologically I could have perceived unconsciously that I was fixing to be attacked, but those guys were a distance away when I felt that feeling and my vision sucks. now that I look back I understand that they had a predatory look in their eyes but my conscious self tends to be naive. Another example of a spiritual experience: i encountered a psychic who could feel my exact mood and feeling through a chat room which would have been impossible to convey by the words alone that I used. I was having a feeling of a childlike Spirit at the time. She literally saw my inner nature. in fact you might notice that sometimes you can perceive more in a person's text or book or letter than would seem possible.

[Anonymous No.15053922]

>>15053862
I would say it's more like a touhou song but yeah close enough.
>It is self-evident that if we wish to attempt a contemplation of that which is divine and eternal, we must first of all not refuse to believe in the possibility that something divine and eternal exists or may reveal itself in the constitution of man. This spiritual principle in man is superior to the animal and reasoning man; superior to the material body, and superior to the arguing intellect; it does not need to reason and guess; it perceives and knows. Being superior to the intellect, it cannot be conceived intellectually; but it can be perceived by man if he rises above the animal and intellectual plane to the consciousness of his own divine spirit; or to express it in the language of Boehme, if he attains self-knowledge in Christ. The animal instincts in man belong to the animal nature in man, his intellectual faculties belong to his intellectual nature, but that which is divine in him belongs to his God, his own true and real and permanent self.

[Anonymous No.15053971]

>diverse religions all around the world claim the same basic truths veiled in the color of x particular religion
>Basically a universal proof that different humans throughout time have tapped into something
>Atheist cock block you with "muh god helmet" even though it could have been used as proof that we can access God
>Acceptance or belief in God appears to be completely up to you unlike the material Universe which constantly forces itself on you
>God is a genius because he got rid of the coercion of the Divine necessity by making you a creature subject to creaturely necessity, which means we are so free that we are even free from God because God wants us to freely be with and like him.

[Anonymous No.15053999]

>>15053922
>The healing crystals really work, just suspend your intellect and reasoning

[Anonymous No.15054001]

>>15053971
Why does he want that

[Anonymous No.15054005]

>>15054001
Because being God he's Based

[Anonymous No.15054008]

a) Coronavirus happened
b) Drumpf will win a second term

There, proved there is no god.

[Anonymous No.15054016]

>>15053971
>>diverse religions all around the world claim the same basic truths veiled in the color of x particular religion
Almost like the humans who create those religions have a similar genetic make up and psychology
>which means we are so free that we are even free from God
Free will does not exist, you did not choose to have the "soul" that you have, just as a murderer did not choose to have the "soul" of a murderer

[Anonymous No.15054025]

>>15054001
He wants to discover himself and find the joy of himself. He wants to cherish himself forever. He wants to freely be. He doesn't even want to be coerced by his own self. Dreaming is nice. The primordial relationship of the Holy Trinity has god to know himself as love. All of reality is because of divine love, there is no greater good news.
https://youtu.be/X7XsTYn-euY

[Anonymous No.15054032]

>>15050226
Go the other way; look into elite Satanism. You'll run straight back into Jesus' arms.

[Anonymous No.15054075]

>>15054016
>Almost like the humans who create those religions have a similar genetic make up and psychology
>Free will does not exist, you did not choose to have the "soul" that you have, just as a murderer did not choose to have the "soul" of a murderer
Almost like everything is designed with one end in mind. You currently believe that you don't have a choice. The freedom of the spirit is a different thing from free will. Just because you're symbolically manifest as an image of God in creature form does not mean that your spirit is suppressed, it only means that you are doing something and since you are doing something you are not doing other things because to be, you must be something.
>Mfw the reality of spirit implies that this world can be deterministic and still chosen. It would be like a dreamer picking what they want to go through in life and then dream the dream that lets that happen.
https://youtu.be/X7XsTYn-euY
sorry but a higher reality superimposing themselves on this one means that there is freedom.

[Anonymous No.15054077]

>>15054025
Why does he need to do any of that when he already knows himself and has no needs?

[Anonymous No.15054108]

>>15054077
That's like saying why would God not want to have sex with God.

[Anonymous No.15054120]

>>15054108
I mean it's like thinking that it's okay to not have sex when you could. I suppose all of reality is God knowing himself. We are the content that God knows forever, therefore we be.

[Anonymous No.15054217]

>>15050226
https://www.amazon.com/Irrational-Atheist-Dissecting-Trinity-Hitchens/dp/1941631622

[Anonymous No.15054809]

>>15054217
>Nazi Germany was an atheistic regime
I guess thats why the catholic church allied themselves with Hitler and celebrated his birthday at the alter every year? Or why all Nazi soldiers had "Gott Mit Uns" engraved on their belt buckles, meaning God On Our Side? Or why the oath to the Führer began with "I swear by God..."? Or why Hitler wrote in Mein Kampf that he was doing God's work?

You can't revise history. Nazi Germany was deeply Christian, and Catholic demonization of Jews was a facilitating factor in the persecution of them.

[Anonymous No.15054815]

>>15054809
Hitler was only Christian because the Church had a lot of power, he and the NS were anti christanity later on

[Anonymous No.15054980]

>>15054032
based

[Anonymous No.15055048]

>>15054809
>Catholic demonization of Jews was a facilitating factor
>the catholic church allied themselves with Hitler
Your grasp of history doesn't even reach Wikipedia-level:
>Although the German Catholic church had opposed the Nazi Party, the Catholic-aligned Centre Party capitulated in 1933. In the 1933 elections, the percentage of Catholics voting for the Nazi Party was lower than the national average. Adolf Hitler and several other key Nazis had been raised Catholic, but became hostile to the church in adulthood; Article 24 of the NSDAP party platform called for conditional toleration of Christian denominations and the 1933 Reichskonkordat treaty with the Vatican purportedly guaranteed religious freedom for Catholics, but the Nazis were essentially hostile to Catholicism. Catholic press, schools, and youth organizations were closed, property was confiscated, and about one-third of its clergy faced reprisals from authorities; Catholic lay leaders were targeted during the Night of the Long Knives. The Church hierarchy tried to cooperate with the new government, but Pius XI's 1937 encyclical Mit brennender Sorge accused the government of hostility to the church.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_Nazi_Germany

Behind closed doors Hitler was virulently anti-Christian and wanted to wean Germany off Christianity, first by corrupting it with contradictory Nazi doctrine (Positive Christianity) then supplanting it with neo-paganism and Nietzschean morality.

[Anonymous No.15055090]

>>15054809
Also the book never calls Hitler an atheist, it calls him a pagan LARPer.
The Nazi ideology in general was secular, excepting the points at which certain leaders tried to converge Nazi doctrine with neo-paganism

[Anonymous No.15055091]

>>15055048
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_Nazi_Germany
>"Nazi antisemitism embraced pseudoscientific racial principles, but ancient antipathies between Christianity and Judaism contributed to European antisemitism."
Maybe read the whole source you yourself post

[Anonymous No.15055183]

>>15055091
>>"Nazi antisemitism embraced pseudoscientific racial principles, but ancient antipathies between Christianity and Judaism contributed to European antisemitism."
You said Catholics. I showed you the sauce disproving it and now you're moving the goalpost.

But I'll humour you.

First, the statement is unprovable. Let's assume it's true anyway. It does not follow that Christianity contributed to NAZI antisemitism.
If you argue it did, why only among Protestants (and not in the direct successor of the "ancient" religion in question?) Furthermore, it is abundantly clear that Nazi antisemitism was chiefly based on ethnic and socio-economic animosities. Hitler himself wrote in Mein Kampf that as a child he thought Jews were fellow Germans with a different religion. Even as a child, he cared more about ethnicity than religion. And finally, Hitler's hatred for Christian slavs was practically as virulent as his hatred for Jews. The only difference is he did not accuse slavs of obscenity in the arts or involvement in international financial cabals.
Either way he wanted to exterminate them both.

[Anonymous No.15055246]

>>15054809
>>15055091
>>15055183
Furthermore, let's look at actual Christian antisemitism, rather than the antisemitism of a secular ideology that refrained from openly expressing its hostility to Christianity due the obvious public backlash which would ensue.

Before the rise of secularism, antisemitism resulted in exiles, not genocide.
>inb4 muh Inquisition, muh pograms
As you'll see in said book, the Spanish Inquisition executed 3.5 people a year (for a total of 1,250). This works out to 1% of those inquisited.

Furthermore, Inquistions only applied to Judeo-Christians, not Jews practicing Judaism.
The reason the Inquisition was set up was because after finally freeing Spain from 800 years of Moor rule, a legion of Moors came and staged a massacre upon a Spanish port. The Moorish attempts to regain control of Spain were supported by Jews because they preferred the Muslim rule. Hence the government cracked down on Jews they suspected to be infiltrating the Spanish Christian community in order to restore the Moorish rule.

As for pograms - plebs assaulting people of a foreign ethnicity. It's not a religious affair. If anything, religious antisemitism was constructed to justify pre-existing ethnic and socio-economic hatred.

[Anonymous No.15055251]

>>15050226
My blog

psychedral.com

[Anonymous No.15055639]

>>15050226
Who's this G'dess?

[Anonymous No.15055756]

>>15050369
book name?

[Anonymous No.15055946]

>>15051073
>NRSV
holy shit what actual retard made this chart
should be RSV-CE or Douay-Rheims, and this is coming from a Prot