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/lit/ - Literature

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15040379 No.15040379 [Reply] [Original]

What is the true Great American Novel?

>> No.15040402

The Great Gatsby
don’t @ me

>> No.15040408

>>15040379
U.S.A. Trilogy by John Dos Passos. There is no other answer.

>> No.15040414
File: 485 KB, 1038x1224, mobybreaching.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15040414

>> No.15040416
File: 285 KB, 1500x2400, 81eAPjAhPBL.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15040416

Give it another 20 years.

>> No.15040515
File: 479 KB, 721x1080, 66671444-1C0D-424C-A2F2-55549D8443E5.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15040515

America is all about the Dick

>> No.15040529

>>15040515
>>15040414
based
>>15040416
cringe

>> No.15042306
File: 31 KB, 229x350, CormacMcCarthy_BloodMeridian.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15042306

>>15040416
wat
>>15040414
>>15040515
>>15040529
this. yes.

still though, mccarthy is a worthy contender

>> No.15042334

Historically it's considered to be Moby Dick. Contemporarily it's probably Pinecone, either Lot 49 or GR. In reception probably Kerouac or Twain. Faulkner and Steinbeck are unavoidable mentions. In romantical nostalgia sans reception maybe Hemingway's Old Man And The Sea. In actuality it's the one I'm writing (actually titled) Fuckin A.

You could make the case for colonial era writers like Thoreau and Emerson but it would be nostalgic to think of the medium as not having progressed since then, while retaining its fundamental attributes

If it were up to me it'd be Gravity's Rainbow I guess

>> No.15042345

>>15042334
How does Gravity's Rainbow capture the spirit of American life?

>> No.15042412
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15042412

well. if you ask the nobel committee....

>> No.15042418

>>15042345

There are too many ways to answer this question, although I don't recall 'capturing the spirit of American life' being mentioned as a prerequisite of the great American novel. If anything maybe it's an idealized syntax of a bleak story told with an absurdist indifference expressed more genuinely than anything sensationally optimistic would come across as. That meets the criteria for me

>> No.15042421

>>15042418
>I don't recall 'capturing the spirit of American life' being mentioned as a prerequisite of the great American novel

It definitely is a prerequisite.

>> No.15042429

>>15042412
what's his best novel

>> No.15042438

>>15042334
>Fuckin A.
Think of a better title, nobody will want to read that. Looks like you're trying too hard to be shocking and edgy

>> No.15042449

>>15042421

Well Gravity's Rainbow is an American novel and it's probably the greatest one so maybe point things like that out first instead of retroactively expecting your mind to have been read

>> No.15042452

>>15042449
I'm not OP faggot

>> No.15042463

>>15042438
I agree

>> No.15042492
File: 277 KB, 1240x1240, p-28230-pet_sounds_2_1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15042492

>>15042429
this

>> No.15042533

>>15042449
The great american novel is a well known concept
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_American_Novel

>> No.15042552

on the road

>> No.15042564

>>15042449
The Great American Novel as a concept isn't just "the best novel written by an American". this is basic stuff.

>> No.15042572

>>15042438

I think it has commercial mass-appeal, but you're probably right about the title seeming contrived to a more academically literary niche audience. All in all I've given it a lot of thought and the title has enough to do with the story to not feel out of place for me, and I just haven't thought of a better title that really does what that one accomplishes. There have been great literary obscenity cases like Ulysses and Howl getting blocked by U.S. courts, and they tend to favor the authors in the verdicts where the book has literary merit, but I've never seen a title that made direct use of an expletive and so I wondered if I could get away with the title if it was pertinent to a story that had some urgency to it, of course this could be a conflation I make between a book being unpalatable to vice committees who try to have it banned with the book being inherently really good - I think this has to do with the book not having ultimately been banned on its merit, while also having some correlation to the vague notion that literature has always been a sort of high-brow medium unpallatable to most mass audiences and the ensuing notion that maybe the attempted ban was a good thing, in deflection of a censorist reception. In any case, my intention with the title was provocateurial but this was years ago and I haven't published anything since then but have a lot of notebooks filled up now that I can pick and choose from to put the thing together more or less, it's mostly pussyfooting nervously as an unpublished as opposed to not being confident in my output, but this debut feels like an old idea that I didn't get made in a timely way more than a long project I'm able to piece together now, which is what it is and what it's more or less been the entire time

>> No.15042589

>>15042572
>There have been great literary obscenity cases like Ulysses and Howl getting blocked by U.S. courts, and they tend to favor the authors in the verdicts where the book has literary merit, but I've never seen a title that made direct use of an expletive
https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/90579.Books_With_Swear_Words_in_the_Titles_

>> No.15042671

>>15042589
Go The Fuck To Sleep is funny but it's not lit proper, there just isn't casual use of the word in neutral context and Fuckin' A is one of those titles that demands to be used before it gets grabbed up, to be honest I feel kinda dumb telling you guys about it right now

>> No.15042689

>>15042671
It is dumb because it’s a dumb title imo.

>> No.15042697

>>15040515
Is this the most aesthetic Moby-Dick cover? I always look at it every time I see it.

>> No.15042699

But what is the "A" in "Fucking A"

>> No.15042708

>>15042572
So what is Fuckin A about?

Also the Great American Novel is Sometimes a Great Notion by Ken Kesey

>> No.15042721

>>15042699
It is the Alpha, signifying all beginnings

>> No.15042773

>>15042689

Pleb filter. You haven't even read it

>>15042699

I've always wondered this too. There's a bit about it in the book where it's contended whether the expression 'fucking a' means fucking ass, or veritable hey, or what that term is even supposed to mean. The A on the cover is an Anarchist symbol circumscribed to a version of the American flag, which is used by the underground punk band 'us', a band so underground that they use a subtle name, in the story. So the front cover would just say Fuckin , then followed by that image of the A flag, while the binding would have the title whole

>> No.15042784

>>15042773
>The A on the cover is an Anarchist symbol circumscribed to a version of the American flag,
ok, haha very funny mr. Baiter, now fuck off

>> No.15042801

>>15042773
Have you read Illuminatus? This is shaping up to be a bad Illuminatus rip-off

>> No.15042810

>>15042492
Kek

>> No.15042825

>>15042671
You should title it "The great American novel" desu

>> No.15042835
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15042835

>>15040515
>>15042306
One of these two or Naked Lunch

>> No.15042852

>>15042825

Not a bad idea. That'll be my backup plan. Thanks anon

>> No.15042860

>>15040379
A better question... What is America' Epic Poem?

>> No.15042879

>>15042835

Naked Lunch is so filthy that I had to put it down after 150 pages because it just got too gross for too long without anything else in between, even though it name-dropped cities I've lived in with my name in the sentences and spoke to me on a personal level I just couldn't do it. But maybe it's because I've been at mental hospitals that I found that part so unpallatable, I tried putting myself in the shoes of someone who hadn't for a second and the hypothetical me who'd never been institutionalized would've felt really awkward for a mental patient reading that morrose hyperbole

>> No.15042897

>>15042860

Definitely something beat-era, unless there are Emerson-era poets who went longer verse who I'm unaware of.

Actually it's probably Leaves of Grass

>> No.15042909

>>15042860
le bridge

>> No.15042913

>>15042860
Pale Fire

>> No.15042916

>>15042784

You seem upset, I'm sorry you feel that way. What a way that would be to live

>> No.15042962

Moby Dick

But if there's a single work of art that best defines America, it's probably a film.

>> No.15042968

>>15042962
Citizen Kane

>> No.15042981
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15042981

As unpopular an opinion as this is, it's probably this.

>> No.15043001

>>15042897
Longfollow has some great epic poetry: Evangeline and the Song of Hiawatha are great, albeit scarcely about the entirety of the United States.

>> No.15043005

>>15042962
Moby Dick thematically represents America better than any film ever could.

>> No.15043006

>>15042860
Clarel

>> No.15043082

It's obviously The Tunnel. Gassposter, were he not deceased, would be ashamed of you all

>> No.15043134

>>15042697
It’s not a real cover. Just fan art.
In a better world, anon. In a better world...

>> No.15043187

Atlas Shrugged

>> No.15043306

>>15040379
Moby-Dick expresses America better than anythjng else. Absalom, Absalom! Is a VERY close second

>> No.15043349

>>15040379
it would have to be Rabbit, Run

>> No.15043363
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15043363

>> No.15043386

>>15042334
Thoreau and Emerson weren't "colonial era writers", dumbfuck. They were contemporary with Melville.

>> No.15043397
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15043397

Easy

>> No.15043400

>>15042773
>veritable hey
What on earth is "veritable hey"? Are you ESL?

>> No.15043465

>>15043400
No,he's baiting you

>> No.15043487

>>15042345
The American spirit in the 40s was in Europe.

>> No.15043491

>>15043397
Fuckin' amen.

>> No.15043493

>>15042492
SOMETIMES I FEEL VERY SAD

>> No.15043507

>>15042492
WHERE CAN I TURNNNN WHEN MY FAIR WEATHERED FRIENDS COP OUT.

>> No.15043517

>>15043507
THREW AWAY ALL MY GRITS

>> No.15043525

>>15040379
1. Moby Dick
2. Blood Meridian
3. Gravity's Rainbow

No others really come close in my opinion.

>> No.15043555

>>15040379
The one written by that French guy.

>> No.15043566

It's underworld by Don delillo

>> No.15043578

>>15042564
This. "The Great American Novel" is a class of novels: good novels or masterpieces written by Americans or about America

>> No.15043580

>>15043400
Think of it this way: "Fuckin ayyy"

Or in relation to the phrase "fuckin right" as a vulgar way to say "right on," which is itself a modern slang spin on "yea verily"

>> No.15043587

>>15042492
This album sucks desu

>> No.15043592

>>15043578
misdefined

>> No.15043608

>>15043578
Not about america, but captures the essence of america

>> No.15043622

Cien Años de Soledad, by Gabriel García Márquez

>> No.15043629

>>15043592
What is your definition

>> No.15043663

Moby Dick

>> No.15043721

>>15043622
colombian

>> No.15043731

>>15043386

Well this is where it gets complicated, technically Moby Dick was published in 1820 and you are right, except Moby Dick didn't get much attention in its time and was discovered in a bin of old books being thrown out in New England, sometime around 1907 well after Melville's death, where it became known as this intricately prosaic masterwork that some people call the best book in the English language

And at least one of the two three-named guys I mentioned was colonial-era, it was Emerson, you're probably right about Thoreau though since there are pictures of him.

>> No.15043746

>>15040379
George Washington’s Farewell Address

>> No.15043764

>>15043721
No shit

>> No.15043767
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15043767

>>15040379
whats actually interesting is that image, but I can't find in any resolution higher than this

>> No.15043787

>>15043731
A single fucking google search would tell you that your wrong, emerson and thoreau are contemporaries with melville

>> No.15043788

>>15043764
No need to be rude nigger

>> No.15043801

>>15043787
A single common cent would tell you there's a difference between your and you're, genius

>> No.15043830

>>15043801
I purposfully included that typo, because I knew that your an insuffrable pseud who would try to use it to steer the conversation away from you're retardedness

>> No.15043904
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15043904

>> No.15044500

>>15043363
While this probably isn't my pick, I find it very "interesting" which writers in this thread are considered the voices of America (Melville, Faulkner, Pynchon, Hemingway, McCarthy, Dos Passos, Williams, Fitzgerald) and which ones aren't (Morrison, Stein, Robinson, Ellison, etc.). I wonder why that is.

>> No.15044589

>>15042708
my roommate is a fan, I am intrigued, but don't have time to prioritize it personally

>> No.15044596

>>15042897
yeah it's obviously whitman lol

>> No.15045086

>>15042429
He has a pretty wild autobiography. His poetry in "Tarantula" is interesting as well

>> No.15045577

>>15044500
Either racism or elitism.

>> No.15045755
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15045755

>> No.15045815

>>15040379
Why does there need to be only one again?

>> No.15045827

>>15042860
Hiawatha

>> No.15047281

>>15043587
>This album sucks
drop acid and try it on for size

>Why don't they let me go home
>This is the worst trip I've ever been on
this captures the american condition in essence. y'all wanna go home to your home countries, but being american now, you realize there never was something called home, so you really can't go home, even if you wanted to.

>> No.15047300
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15047300

>>15045815
Both/and is for fags

>> No.15047322
File: 39 KB, 250x366, Superman.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15047322

>>15040379
This little serial.

>> No.15047522

Either Huckleberry Finn or Moby Dick.

>> No.15047565

>>15042860
Paterson. No question about it.

>> No.15047613

>>15042345
True American Spirit is Dancing on a Graveyard of Europe

>> No.15047693

>>15040416
This

>> No.15047982

>>15042860
There is none. Leaves of Grass is the only thing that comes close.

>> No.15048000

LIBRA by don delillo for novel; THERE WILL BE BLOOD from PTA as the last great american movie

>> No.15048013

>>15048000
and by this i mean not the ultimate great american novel but the most recent one which is a contender

>> No.15048050
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15048050

>>15042825

>> No.15048088

>>15043767
https://www.lib.umich.edu/online-exhibits/exhibits/show/litmaps/us/uslit

Click on the map and itll take you to a page you can zoom in on it, takes a moment for the resolution on zooming in to load though.

>> No.15048625

>>15040379
Moby Dick, but only if you don't skip the chapters on whaling
Huckleberry Finn, until Tom enters

>> No.15048708

>>15042860
Song of Myself

>> No.15048719

>>15040379
Uncle Tom's Cabin

>> No.15048800

>>15040402
ok but u is wrong

LOLITA IS THE REAL ANSWER

>> No.15048992

>>15047281
>i-its good if you are on drugs
This is a terrible defense of any work.

>> No.15049006

>>15042334
>In romantical nostalgia sans reception
Jesus, this sounds extremely pretentious
What's wrong with you?
>In actuality it's the one I'm writing (actually titled) Fuckin A.
Oh, you're baiting. My bad, carry on.

>> No.15049010

>>15048992
that guys a retard but Pet Sounds is one of the greatest albums of all time.

>> No.15049015

>>15043400
If he was ESL it would actually be more authentically American.

>> No.15049094

>>15047281
Any album can sound profound on acid

>> No.15049123

>>15048050
I haven't read this. Any good?

>> No.15049802

>>15040515
It’s probably the best American novel ever written but it seems like there’s this idea that “The Great American Novel” should be somehow representative of the culture. In that case, I don’t see how this book fits the bill.

>> No.15049824

>>15049094
not really no..
>>15048992
it's not a defence, it's a suggestion. maybe it'll open your horizon for excellent music. maybe not.

>> No.15049941

>>15040379
Moby Dick

>> No.15050170

>>15049824
Yes, really.

>> No.15050221

>>15043801
Nice try at dodging your completely factually incorrect statements.

>> No.15050273

>>15044500
they're better have you not actually read them

>> No.15050288
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15050288

>>15043001
There are a lot of Acadian regions of eastern Canada named Evangeline after his poem.

also
https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44626/the-building-of-the-ship

>> No.15050596

It's Gatsby. The story of a man who achieves and achieves, always trying to reach some dream that he will never quite capture, constantly searching for meaning when it's always just out of reach.

>> No.15050920
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15050920

>>15043629
Novels about Greated cheese and greated cheese accessories

>> No.15050958
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15050958

>>15040379

>> No.15051039

>>15049802
Its about a multi-cultural crew of blood thirsty savages led on a mad quest by a bitter old white man promising wealth, glory and transcendence but ultimately ends in death and annihilation for nearly all.
What could be more American than that?

>> No.15051040

>>15050596
This.
Don't even like Gatsby too much desu, but it is *the* American novel.