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/lit/ - Literature

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14979980 No.14979980 [Reply] [Original]

What do you think of Vonnegut? Everyone seems to rave about this fucker but I read pic rel and found it extremely underwhelming. Am I missing something?

>> No.14979988

The structure is pretty clever, though.

>> No.14980003

>>14979980
R*ddit as hell. The shittiest postmodernist unless you want to count token minority ones like zadie smith. I personally was yelling at the last 50 pages of the S5 when the maternity ward couple chooses not to have kids and he breaks the fourth wall to point out what marvelous symbolism the reader should be getting. Fuck this guy.

>> No.14980004

>>14979980
It brought attention to a travesty by the allies and it was kinda funny sometimes. That's literally it. It's short and quirky enough so people in highschool would read it. It has so many reviews because so many people read it in highschool. Books like this are chosen based on whether theyre a good and cheap paperback. Contextually speaking, its just as mediocre as the next book students were forced to read by a teacher trying to stick to the bureaucratic necessities while attempting to provide something a little fun for their students.

>> No.14980013

>>14979980
its a straight punch that hits hard in all the right spots of "big lit". its also deeper psychologically/existentially than most assume, but its subtle compared to other "great works" i guess

>> No.14980021

>>14980004
>muh plot
>muh funny and short xD
Why does no one ever mention its structure? Fucking plebs, man.

>> No.14980023

the truth is, dresden wasn’t enough

>> No.14980029

>>14980021
Wow time jumps and aliens every other chapter, crazy! Sorry my analysis wasn't deep enough for you. So it goes.

>> No.14980085

>>14979980
Cat’s Cradle is his best book

>> No.14980096

>>14979980
I love Vonnegut and think he's a very much welcomed writer that balances post modern narratives and some philosophical concepts with enjoyable narratives and strong prose. Is he as dense or "complicated" as Pynchon, Barth, or Delillo? No, and he's not trying to be.

>> No.14980121

>>14980003
How loud were you yelling? Was it dispersed throughout all 50 pages evenly?

>> No.14980136

A tour de force

>> No.14980287

>>14979980
Vonnegut is a good writer but hes not very hard and hes very popular so /lit/ hates him. Sirens of Titan is actually my favorite.

>> No.14980317

>>14980096
>>14980287
Precisely. He's good but he doesn't go as crazy as Pynchon and friends into postmodernism so this board scorns Vonnegut.

>> No.14980326

>>14980029
Is this how you view it? God, what a brainlet.

>> No.14980352

I like dystopian sci-fi things but too scatterbrained to read a book, Vonnegut was the right choice for me.

>> No.14980440

book is okay, but if i see one more fag with "so it goes" tattooed on themselves i will cut it off

>> No.14980586

>>14979980
I like The Sirens of Titan.

>> No.14980602

>>14980287
This guy has it figured out. Both in his views on Vonnegut and his favorite work of his. Sirens of Titan does what S5 does but better

>> No.14980612
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14980612

>> No.14980633

>>14979980
Yeah, a fucking brain.

>> No.14980649

He’s not the best, but he’s good at what he does. Contrarian plebs will hit you with muh reddit but who cares. The man graded his ouvre so you know what to read an what to skip.

>> No.14980669

>>14980612
Is this true? Read the first two.

>> No.14980675

>>14980669
I feel it's accurate. It goes down the line in complexity more than anything. Really good image.

>> No.14980718

>>14980675
>>14980669
I would probably put either "White Noise" by Don Delillo or "The French Lieutenant's Woman" by John Fowels in place of Catch 22, but that's just me.

>> No.14980729

>>14980718
It's for war novels.

>> No.14980740 [SPOILER] 
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14980740

Know what else "everyone seems to rave about", OP?

>> No.14980742

>>14980729
OH! That makes sense. I thought it was for postmodern novels. My bad!

>> No.14981062

>>14980004
This
It is just famous because most people were not aware of war "crimes" committed by the Allies

>>14980085
This, also Player Piano was good too

>> No.14982312

>>14979980
>Everyone seems to rave about this fucker
He's popular because he's easy to read while still having some depth.

>found it extremely underwhelming. Am I missing something?
Not necessarily. I thought the book was quite mediocre. The worst part is that it's painfully unfunny compared to other postmodernists. The way he plays around with time and space is interesting. But overall the whole world just feels flat. Which I guess is kind of what Vonnegut was going for (you really get a sense for this if you watch his Shape of Stories lecture), but the world he creates is just dull and uninteresting.
The prose is mediocre and the characters aren't particularly engaging. Some of them come across as forced like that dude with the picture of the girl getting fucked by a horse.

I see why some people like it and I don't have a problem with that. If it's your favorite novel you're 100% a pleb. But if you think it's horrible you're just being an edgy contrarian.

>> No.14983100

>>14979980
In my opinion it was interesting, but all and all pretty cringe. I liked the way that he meta-demonstrates the concept of time he proposes, but it's got to be one of the absolute most limpdick and uninteresting portrayals of war I've ever read. Also, the "so it goes" is just fucking irritating, no matter how well thought-out he thought his point on death was.

>> No.14983183

>>14979980
He was my favorite in early high school and got me into reading more serious stuff by showing me that writing had more flexibility than any other media. It's a very good book to read when you're 14 and you need to be shown that writers can use all these little tricks to change how their narrative works. The way he thumbs his nose and directly says "look what I'm doing now, isn't that an interesting way to write a book?" is annoying now because we know those possibilities are there and regularly read authors who use them subtly.
Sirens of Titan does in fact hit most of S5's beats better, but I think S5 is more widely taught in US schools because its events are historical and it's probably literally the first and only time a teenager might hear from a teacher that the Allies did something morally questionable. Mother Night is his best novel in my opinion, but I think he was even better at short stories than novels, and I also haven't read any of his stuff since I was 16.
>>14983100
Did you read the prologue chapter? The portrayal was limpdick and uninteresting because that's the reality he saw in war and he wanted young men who didn't experience it firsthand to have somebody break it to them. He was there, his war experience was mostly being shuffled around as a prisoner and digging corpses out of rubble at gunpoint, and it disgusted him to see the whole thing romanticized.

>> No.14983289

>>14983183
>The portrayal was limpdick and uninteresting because that's the reality he saw in war and he wanted young men who didn't experience it firsthand to have somebody break it to them.
I can understand that, but the idea of "war isn't as interesting as stories make it", kind of hits me as "yeah no shit". But maybe I'm harsher on him because his intentionally stiff prose made me want to shoot my the roof of my mouth with my father's revolver in the year 2027 so it fucking goes.

>> No.14983383

>>14979980
Read through A Man Without A Country. I guess a man of his experience would have something to say about life, but the whole thing just felt like what would happen if you gave a random boomer a megaphone (yeah but he was born in the 20s). The nebulous structure of his writing, thoughts, and musings at times reminded me of Stephan King. There's some good parts, but overall my opinion of normies who swears by that book has nosedived.

>> No.14983432

>>14979980
I thought cats cradle and breakfast of champions were better. Why did slaughter-house gain the most popularity out of all of them?

>> No.14984344

>>14979980
He’s a talentless hack

>> No.14984501

>>14979980
He's very creative and has a knack for thinking his (simple) ideas through. However, he's so "Baby's first Postmodern writer" that he's more "Fetus's first Postmodern writer". If you've ever read Pynchon or DFW, or even Heller, there's really no reason at all to read Vonnegut unless you just want to increase your number of books read per week or something.

>> No.14984891

>>14984501
suggestions for heller beyond the obvious?

>> No.14985409

>>14984891
All I've read is 22 and Something Happened, so really only Something Happened if that isn't already in "the obvious". I don't know if I exactly call the experience of it pleasant, but it was certainly worthwhile.