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/lit/ - Literature

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14972595 No.14972595 [Reply] [Original]

What's the best of Arthurian fiction? Is it pic related?

>> No.14972622
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14972622

Parzival is the best Arthurian romance. Change my mind.

>> No.14972733
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14972733

>>14972595
The Faerie Queene obviously

>> No.14972908

>>14972622
What did you like about it?

>> No.14972950

>>14972908
It fuses the Arthurian legend with the legend of the Holy Grail.
It also features two completely different main figures, Parzival and Gawan. While Gawan already is the very model of a Knight, Parzival at the start of the book is just a stupid, but talented kid and we watch him rise, fall and rise again.
It's really worth reading.

>> No.14972961
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14972961

>>14972595
Gawain and the Green Knight is my favorite. Definitely more on the mystic side with its emphasis on myth and dream-logic

>> No.14973087

Are any of the more contemporary books any good? I usually see a lot of the really old books recommended when people talk about King Arthur stuff.

>> No.14973144

>>14972622
Extremely based. Parsifal also has the most godlike music in a Wagner opera.

>> No.14973502

>>14973087
The Warlord Trilogy by Bernard Cornwell
Down the Long Wind by Gillian Bradshaw
The Merlin Series by Mary Stewart

>> No.14973533

I hate bullshit revisionist king arthur stuff that has come out post-2000 where King Arthur stops being an hero and is more "complex"

>> No.14973564

>>14973533
Care to elaborate? Arthur has always been sort of complicated

>> No.14973582

>>14973533
he literally tried to kill a baby

>> No.14973603
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14973603

>>14973582
>implying this is in any way a bad thing.

>> No.14973608

>>14973582
But in a heroic manner.

>> No.14973829

>>14972961
>with its emphasis on myth and dream-logic
Care to elaborate? You mean how he fulfills his promise and journeys to the green knight, and the surreal landscapes he passes along the way?

>> No.14974132
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14974132

Idylls of the King by Alfred Tennyson is a must read epic.

https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/610

>> No.14974176
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14974176

Mary Stewart's Merlin Trilogy

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/27689.Mary_Stewart_s_Merlin_Trilogy

>> No.14974189

Is the film Excalibur a great adaptation of Le Morte d'Arthur?

>> No.14974206

>>14973829
Yeah, everything. The Green Knight's grotesque challenge, his associations with fairies, his illusions and secret trial to warn Gawain about Morrigan le Fay.

>> No.14974218
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14974218

>> No.14974341
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14974341

>>14974189
>Is the film Excalibur a great adaptation
I think so, some aspects are dated but it really gets the tone of the story and it has some really good production design and cinematography, also it has Nicol Williamson who is one of my favorite actors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y91y6Pn6uUU

>> No.14974612
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14974612

What should one start reading to get the best experience? No modern stuff please.

>> No.14974887
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14974887

>>14972595
>Arthurian fiction
I think Sword at Sunset is one of the most underrated.

>> No.14975151
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14975151

The Mists of Avalon

>> No.14975352

>>14972595
where did Authorian mythology come from and how are all the stories linked.

>> No.14975411

>>14975352
From Brythonic/Welsh folklore(there's a chance that it came from Straithclyde, I don't care enough to recall the exact characters that may have been "northern Arthurs" though), altho there's no preserved full celtic version of the cycle, Mabinogion has some really old takes on Arthur in "Culhwch and Olwen" and so on, it's probably just the oral tradition that's older than 12th century and given that Mabinogion was written in prose it's likely that no anachronisms have been preserved in the text(I don't know anything about that side of it though). My take is that the actual historical Arthur defeated Anglo-Saxons at some point and died in battle against a man who's name was close to Mordred, everything else is probably just an attempt to link various families etc. to the legendary hero.

The first complete cycle can be found in "Merlin and the Grail", most of the later recollections are based of "The Death of Arthur" though(as it was written down as a kind of full-blown collection of Arthurian cycles, with lengthy digressions describing the actions of different knights).

>> No.14975416

Fantasy writers have a lot to answer for in reducing British mythology to cheap storybooks for kids. The Arthurian legends should hold the same weight and gravity as the Hellenic or Scandinavian myths.

>> No.14975497

>>14975416
bruh, I'm scandinavian, and nordic mythology constantly gets milked for all its worth for cheap books, shows, movies, etc., with zero care or respect for the original myths

>> No.14975510

>>14972595
I'm really enjoying Idylls of the King.

>> No.14975560

>>14975497
That’s true, and the same is also becoming true of Hellenic mythology too. The whole pervasion of mass media into sacred areas like that is disgraceful and should be stopped. Myths are real.

>> No.14975769

>>14974206
Is it even determined by the end exactly who or what the Green Knight even is? Did Morgan la Fey disguise her king with magic, or was it indeed a separate spectral entity?

>> No.14975837
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14975837

>>14972595
>Is it pic related?
No, that's the second-worst one after Mists of Avalon.

Best is pic related.

>> No.14975875
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14975875

>>14972622
>book hasn't been in print in my language since '99
>order a copy
>it gets lost in the mail

>> No.14975895
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14975895

>>14975875
Sorry anon.

>> No.14975974

>>14973144
>Parsifal
Finn or Hun?

>> No.14976018

How do I learn middle english?

>> No.14976068

>>14976018
Learn both middle high German and Old French first, middle English will be easy to learn then.

>> No.14976073

>>14975411
The Mabinogion has some wonderfully weird stories, would recommend. If you speak old Welsh, there's some lovely poetry too (some translations convey this).

This podcast is a nice introduction:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0b1p5k7

>> No.14976131

>>14975974
Huh?

>> No.14976337

>>14975837
I've heard people say the once and future king is the 2nd best fantasy novel of all time behind lotr. What's so bad about it in your opinion?

>> No.14976348

>>14972733
Reading it now. It's so good.

>> No.14976445

>>14976337
It just shits all over the Arthurian mythos with dumb "funny, ironic" pleb shit liek a guy calling for the fire brigade when he gets trapped in a tower and schmaltzy "reimaginings" of characters to make them more sympathetic to limp-wristed ninnies.

>> No.14976720
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14976720

>>14972595
Why do all the in print editions of this book look like shit?

>> No.14977262
File: 28 KB, 305x500, cover art - t.h. white once and future king.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14977262

>>14976720
Look for some of the older prints of the book there are some good covers.

>> No.14977373

Tristan and Isolt poems are pretty high end as well and were half adapted into the Arthurian legend, all 4 poem versions I've read were all very good, would recommend

>> No.14977381

>>14975837
>when sir gaehris kills his mom for getting ready to do it with sir lamerock
Must have really hated the irish

>> No.14977408

>>14977373
It's TRISTRAM NOT TRISTAN

>> No.14977433

>>14977262
I'm having trouble finding any on ebay or Abebooks, it doesn't help that apparently everyone who bought the unpublished conclusion to The Once and Future King is trying to sell me their copy of the Book of Merlyn

>> No.14977515

>>14976720
The out of print ones really aren't much better
If this book was actually any good people would care and publish a beautiful edition instead of shitting out this garbage
Sad!

>> No.14977917

>>14977262
I had this exact book. Lent it to a friend, never got it back. I'm still upset about it.

>> No.14978066

>>14972595
Wolfram's Parzival
Malory's Le Mort d'Arthur
de Troyes's Erec and Enide; Cliges; Yvain; Lancelot; and Perceval
Swinburne's Tristram of Lyonesse
von Strassburg's Tristan

>> No.14978126

>>14975411
>>14976073
I actually started the Mabinogion a few days ago. Haven’t gotten to the actual Arthurian tales yet but the characters have a lot of life and energy

>> No.14978337

>>14972961
Gawain and the Green Night was always my favorite Arthurian story as a kid. It does operate with a sort of fairy tale logic (which may have been the appeal for me)

>> No.14978547

>>14975151
Kind of weird reading MZB knowing what we know now. Shame because I really enjoyed Darkover even with all the kooky 70s feminism.

>> No.14978556

>>14975411
IIRC we don't have enough evidence to even conclude that Mordred was an enemy of Arthur's, just that a person with that name existed and participated in a battle with him.

>> No.14978568

>>14975416
I don't know man I think people have been simplifying stories like this to make them more comprehensible and palatable to children for a very very long time. I don't think it undermines the original stories. Most of us are probably here because we read or were read simplified and sanitized Arthurian myths as children.

>> No.14978734

>>14975560
Is it better if a myth is perverted but still introduced to the general public by mass media, or if it is forgotten and replaced by something entirely new (and probably freakish)?

>> No.14978839

>>14974887
got an epub?

>> No.14979317

>>14978568
I got into the arthurian mythos by watching Merlin on BBC, which is as far from the source material as possible, so I don't think there's anything wrong with modifying the source for a new audience since they can always go to the source if they're interested.

>> No.14979346

>>14975416
I for one applaud the belittling of a*glo "myths"

>> No.14979360

>>14972595
> Arthurian fiction
It's pretty much all fiction. There's hardly any solid evidence for most of it.

>> No.14979501

>>14979360
True, Percy Jackson and Ovid’s Metamorpheses are also basically the same thing

>> No.14979870

>>14975875
damn

>> No.14979873

What is the best version of Le Morte D’Arthur? Preferably a hardcover one

>> No.14980079
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14980079

Did T.H. White say something really racist or why did the publishing industry collectively decide to clown on his work?

>> No.14980119

>>14980079
there's a bird in it that hates niggers and bolsheviks, could be a contributing reason.

>> No.14980173

>>14976337
T. H. White was a gay man who hated everything the original writers of the Arthurian romances believed in and you can tell in the book

>> No.14980219

>>14979873

there's a edition with included illustrations by arthur rackham
>>14974189
kino, the scene where reinvigorated arthur rides rides out with his knights whilst carmina burino builds up is cinematic magic.

>> No.14980274

>>14980219
The Barnes and Noble one? Pretty sure it’s out of print now

>> No.14980341

>>14975416
am confused, didn't the arthurian legends hold the same weight and gravity as the greek/norse mythology did for their cultures? why else would we have things like la morte d'arthur, wagner's parsifal, tennyson's idylls, etc. etc.? or are you just butthurt that these things were all produced long ago and had plenty of time to rise in our shared culture and can't be bothered to separate the wheat from the chaff today?

>> No.14981109

>>14974132
Is it worth reading if Ive already read Le Morte De Arthur?

>> No.14981311

>>14974612
The Mabinogion and Geoffery of Monmouth's History of the Kings of Britain.

>> No.14981342

>>14976068
Bruh, middle english is pretty easy after you spend a couple hours hacking away at it, unless you're ESL.

>> No.14981375

>>14981109
Yes absolutely.

>> No.14981469

>>14976337
I found the book unreadable. Couldn’t even make it past the first chapter. I don’t know why but everything about it seemed to be “cheapening” the original content. I don’t know anything about the author but I would imagine the feeling I got from reading it would be similar to if I attempted to read a John Green adaptation of The Aeneid.

>> No.14981489

>>14972595
It's good for a laugh, but that's about it.

>>14972622
This anon got it right.

>> No.14981581

>>14980079
There's a racist bit in the Book of Merlyn where the wizard says that "lower races" can't tell the difference between themselves and the rest of the world, so they spit to try and make it rain.

There's also the racist bird >>14980119 but he's meant to be crazy, not sympathetic.