Is the Right / Left divide more ideological or social?

[Anonymous No.14953089]

Do most people consider themselves left or right, solely based on their ideology, or is ideology more or less a by-product of conforming to a group's identity?
For instance, you see a group of people you would like to be a part of and then adopt their ideology later. Or maybe the inverse. You see a person that is a complete train wreck of a human being, and are then turned off by the ideological group that claims and supports him. pic related

I know very few people who actually start with their values, and then reason outward toward a political ideology. Maybe a few libertarians do that... but that's it. I think people more likely start with a cultural aesthetic, follow people who are part of that aesthetic, and then adopt their political maxims to fit in.

I think this explains the many of the ex Neo-cons like Max Boot and French now identify with democrats. They can't understand Trump, and do not want to be associated with his vulgarity in any respect. So while they use to be part of Bush's good ole boys club who pushed multiple wars and tried to outlaw abortion, they would rather vote for an institutional democrat who represents their aesthetic rather than Trump who is the antithesis.

[Anonymous No.14953098]

>>14953089
ewww skinny legs

[Anonymous No.14953102]

>>14953089
Social organization is ideological, so both, but only because the latter term is subsumed by the former.

[Anonymous No.14953104]

>>14953089
Most people are way too stupid to have an ideology. They don't even know what the term "ideology" means.

[Anonymous No.14953120]

>>14953089
If I based my politics on aesthetics, I'd be a Tory rather than a leftist. Allowing aesthetics to sway your political analysis is deeply irrational and embarrassing.

[Anonymous No.14953121]

>>14953089
This is a board for discussing literature.

[Anonymous No.14953122]

smol pp

[Anonymous No.14953123]

>>14953089
>Right / Left divide
No such thing. R and D are liberal populists, and both are controlled by the financial elite and the same interest groups.
Trannie toilets is not a political issue, if you catch my drift.

[Anonymous No.14953127]

>>14953121
>NO DISCUSSION ABOUT IDEOLOGY UNLESS YOU QUOTE AN AUTHOR!!!11

[Anonymous No.14953129]

>>14953123
it is a legal matter who is allowed in what toilets. a very entertaining legal matter

[Anonymous No.14953137]

>>14953127
fuck off political nigger

[Anonymous No.14953140]

>>14953129
>very entertaining
Exactly.

[Anonymous No.14953142]

>>14953123
>>14953129
The ruling class manufactures a never-ending stream of cultural wedge issues to distract the proles.

[Anonymous No.14953163]

>>14953127
Yes, this is a literature board so you need to make reference to books you fucking spaz. Of course you’ve probably not read a book in years so it’s pointless to ask this of you. If you want to discuss politics and philosophy that you read about on Wikipedia rather than actually discuss specific books go to /his/ or /pol/.

[Anonymous No.14953183]

>>14953163
>this is a literature board
how new are you?

[Anonymous No.14953190]

>>14953183
Low standards are not an excuse

[Anonymous No.14953196]

>>14953102
t. actually knows what ideology is

>>14953163
fine cuckboi. The idea of you conforming to a group is a fundamental idea within the philosophy of identity, but the individual doesn't exist without a system of social exchange that creates the system of self-identification. We need a social mirror in which to identify ourselves as both subject and object. That's from Jean Baudrillard's "The ideological genesis of needs"

[Anonymous No.14953211]

>>14953196
Sounds like bullshit.

[Anonymous No.14953212]

>>14953089
I have a very hard time believing that most people are genuinely ideologically motivated or came to the positions they hold through any sort of intellectual inquiry. They don't think in ideological terms, they think in emotive, aesthetic terms.

[Anonymous No.14953222]

>>14953196
See that wasn’t hard.
Ideology is as you say a by-product of conformity. Tribalism is an innate part of human (and any other social animal) behaviour, so people typically feel safer if they can identify with a larger group.

[Anonymous No.14953506]

>>14953089
yea the masses are incapable of political thinking

[actual !Sb87i47eDo No.14953518]

>>14953089
I’m actually left but you’d think I was right if you listened to my views. The ‘left’ nowadays is simple post-corporatism. They couldn’t give a flying fuck about the working classes.

[Anonymous No.14953520]

>>14953089
Any books explaining why the left is so gay and retarded and easily subverted by mental midgets like Greta Thunberg? Thanks.

[Anonymous No.14953526]

>>14953520
What has Thunberg said that is false?

[Anonymous No.14953565]

>>14953123
This, which is why anti-liberal national bolshevism is the only logical place of dissent, against the cultural, philosophical and economical systems of the establishment.

[Anonymous No.14953580]

>>14953565
>bolshevism
>liberalism
same mental midget materialism/humanism.

[Anonymous No.14953583]

>>14953580
Matter is all that exists, brainlet. Those supernatural movies aren't real.

[Anonymous No.14953584]

>>14953583

[Anonymous No.14953593]

>>14953089
go to /pol/

this is /lit/

[Anonymous No.14953597]

>>14953583
>if I can't see it or touch it it not real!
modern education at work.

[Anonymous No.14953643]

>>14953580
Yes, you need to go beyond materialism, but the material does need to be addressed.

[Anonymous No.14953647]

>>14953597
Pro-tip: If you have no empirical evidence for it, it's a figment of your imagination.

[Anonymous No.14953651]

>>14953647
prove empiricism is the only standard of knowledge, then tell me about mathematical, logical and moral truths.

[Anonymous No.14953809]

>>14953526
the mode of rhetoric is a part of the argument, brainlet. read kierkegaard

[Anonymous No.14953823]

>>14953809
What on earth are you blathering about, brainlet? The fact that you look up to Kierkegaard says it all.

[Anonymous No.14953893]

>>14953120
Brainlet here. Can you please tell me how aesthetics applies to politics?

[Anonymous No.14953917]

So about 50 thousand years ago in this bitch called “the Nile,” some river in hottest fucking place on earth these ape boys talked to one another. They exchanged ideas, observations, and ended up creating the first agriculture.

That’s it. That’s where the split of left and right originates.

Prior to this, humans did have tribes, huts, even languages, but men were fucking badass. You seem that movie Bone Tomahawk? That was humans for more than 300,000 years. Badass masters of all trades and survival.

So you got your two camps. Traditional jack of all trades. Quiet life, small town, prefers peace. Old school Homo sapien. Knows how to cut down a tree, work a mill, fix a motor. Still values their community, but also values knowing everyone in it more personally akin to our old tribes containing some 200 people.

Then you got your post-Nile boyos. They live in city’s, constructs of the collective resources of the greater group. They don’t know how to do shit besides a small cog-in-the-wheel type job. They take their car in to change oil, they buy precut firewood, they RMA it instead of fix it themselves. That kinda shit.

There’s a symbiotic nature in that we all have parts of both inside us. Where you land on the gradient has more to do with where you’re born and how big brain you are.

I don’t understand what it is about ideology and pride that makes us believe one camp is greater than the other. I think the two camps are one. They both have or had function, but the inevitable future seems to be the cog-in-the-wheel civilization as the need for those old school Homo sapiens seemingly dwindles along with the Republican Party. If Republicans didn’t choose such dumb hills to die on like religion or “traditional values” they could stand to represent the longer tradition of independence and liberalism.

How long until the socialists, post-Nile city slickers finally snuff out the last jack?

[Anonymous No.14953938]

>>14953917
That's more the distinction between liberals and conservatives rather than left versus right. The ruling class is cosmopolitan, globalist, and liberal. But they are the opposite of leftists.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.14953944]

>>14953584
>Nope. NOPE. Supernatural movies ARE real. Damnit!

[Anonymous No.14954039]

>>14953938
I don’t think theyre true opposites. I don’t know the modern left to be against globalization or being cosmopolitan, so they have similarities. I believe the left separates only in a desire to become more homogeneous than the present ruling class already was compared to their predecessors. Again, the tribal man versus the civilized. It just seems like the same old story.

[Anonymous No.14954054]

>>14953089
/lit/ give me THE BOOK to BTFO everything illustrated in this image. It has NOTHING to do with economic theory or anything, this is a MASSIVE SISSIFICATION psy op and any book that doesn't THE LEFT as such is PAINFULLY RETARDED.

[Anonymous No.14954124]

>>14953089
I feel aesthetics are important indeed, anon, in the horseshoe theory for instance: whatever the ideological differences, an edgy fashy boi will have more affinity with a tankie who wants to implement his communist utopia through violence and fanatical devotion than with the degenerate lowlife shown on your pic

[Anonymous No.14954143]

>>14954039
Not sure where you're getting any of that from. The antiglobalization movement is obviously a leftwing movement. The goal of the left in general is to abolish the ruling class and rid the world of liberalism.

[Anonymous No.14954178]

>>14953651
Sad to see how religioncels have yet to catch up with Wittgenstein, Carnap and Quine, it's been nearly a century!

[Anonymous No.14954179]

>>14954143
Any criticism of the ruling class, liberalism, or capitalism I can think of dont include anything against open border trading or world economy. I could be wrong, though. I though the problem was that the ruling class were the primary benefactors of it. In fact, any argument against this I know of comes from right wingers against jobs going overseas or to migrants. Wasn’t one of trumps talking points bringing jobs back to America?

[Anonymous No.14954191]

>>14954124
Eco-tankienatsocs are based.

[Anonymous No.14954196]

>>14953917
based

[Anonymous No.14954201]

>>14954179
Are you seriously this ignorant? Antiglobalism has always been a core component of leftism. Remember the WTO protests and similar protests against the IMF and World Bank? Open borders is purely a rightwing proposal. In 2016 Clinton was so rightwing that Trump outflanked her on the left on trade policy. Of course, that was all just campaign rhetoric. Once in office he immediately pushed the USMCA agreement.

[Anonymous No.14954206]

>>14954201
The left has always pushed for globalism, the least based parts of it such as trotskyists and liberals anyway. The right was monarchy and now regionalism. Neoliberalism is a materialist ideology sprung from the French and American revolutions, they weren't right-wing revolutionaries.

[Anonymous No.14954220]

>>14954201
>Remember the WTO protests and similar protests against the IMF and World Bank?
He's like 15 years old at most, of course he doesn't.

[Anonymous No.14954224]

>>14954206
You're confusing the left with liberals again. Liberals are rightwing.

[Anonymous No.14954248]

>>14953089
It's based on genetic temperament and social conditioning; so social. How many people do you know reasonably atomize political ideas into their constituent pphilosophies, then seek out ideas with what aligns according to their analysis?

[Anonymous No.14954250]

>>14954224
Ah, yes, I recall reading about the far-right revolutions against the based leftist kings of Europe in school.

The left-right shit is meaningless at this point but the historical basis of it doesn't at all correlate to how you use it. Everyone today is a liberal, the globohomo assholes and the people protesting international trade agreements. They both share the same ideological framework.

[Anonymous No.14954285]

>>14954201
Brexit is largely considered to be a right wing movement, isn’t it? The greatest opponents to globalization right now seem to come from nationalist, right wing groups.

WTO protests seemed just ignorant fear. really gave me “kids against “””the man””” taking over” more than concrete ideological opposition to anyone but the anarchists it’s associated with

[Anonymous No.14954306]

>>14954285
Cringe.

[Anonymous No.14954315]

>>14954306
Oh, it’s just a red pilled poster

Bye