Redpill me on Loeb Classical Translations

[Anonymous No.14932212]

[Anonymous No.14932216]

>>14932212
no, delete this thread right now lazy faggot

[Anonymous No.14932222]

>>14932212
Why do Angloids call him "Homer" instead something closer like Homeros?

[Anonymous No.14932231]

>>14932222
>DOH
lol

[Anonymous No.14932241]

>>14932222
Or you could speak a language that actually has all the letters needed for his name and say Homérosz.

[Anonymous No.14932242]

>>14932212
Pseud shit unless you have a PhD in classics and can translate Latin and Greek to a high enough level that reading someone else's translation would yield a better understanding

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.14932246]

>>14932212
Here. Sample a bit.

>>14932222
I know! It’s so annoying. Same with all the Romanizations, and worst of all “Ulysses”

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.14932259]

>>14932212 (OP)
Here. Sample a bit.
https://ryanfb.github.io/loebolus/

>>14932222
I know! It’s so annoying. Same with all the Romanizations, and worst of all “Ulysses”

[Anonymous No.14932266]

>>14932259
Based butterfag

[Anonymous No.14932268]

[Anonymous No.14932272]

>>14932212
The main issue is textual -- that they are often translations from out of date editions of the text. Critical developments happen all the time in textual studies: new manuscripts are found, interpretations of past manuscripts change, etc. You're almost always better off with Teubner or OCT editions of the Greek or Latin texts and researching the most up to date / precise translations. Loebs also often don't have commentaries, and, when they do, they're shit and far too short.

[Anonymous No.14932276]

I dont know anon. Modern translations are politically correct. So loebs are good yes?

[Anonymous No.14932286]

>>14932272
What's your take on the Budé collection by Les Belles Lettres? Apparently they're top tier but they're ridiculously expensive for how many parts they split a work into.

[Anonymous No.14932288]

>>14932259
I didn't know you were into Greek stuff. Based.

[Anonymous No.14932291]

>>14932276
A lot of the kinky parts are not translated in older editions, AFAIK.

[Anonymous No.14932292]

sometimes outright fraud like the ones by that horse-face middlebrow bitch

[Anonymous No.14932297]

>>14932286
they're generally much better than Loebs. I don't read French tho, but I recently used a Bude for a somewhat obscure Jerome text on Paul the first Hermit. There's also apparently a good Bude for Valerius Flaccus that I would definitely be using right now if I could read French.

[Anonymous No.14932305]

>>14932291
ok. but margaret graver's translation of seneca's letters is most egregious--- the butch twists it to make it all pc and shit--- for eg she translates "pet slave" to "playmate" . like niggers read seneca's letters....oh no you must not mention slavery oh no

[Anonymous No.14932306]

>>14932222
check'd

[Anonymous No.14932310]

19th ce french classical scholar reporting in

[Anonymous No.14932319]

>>14932297
but yeah, it's far too expensive so I've opted for Ehler's Teubner, Zissos' recent edition for Bk 1 and the new Cambridge for Bk 3

[Anonymous No.14932320]

>>14932297
How much of the critical apparatus is for specialists only? Admittedly I'm more of a dabbler in classic lit than a proper classicist. Notes, variant readings, and such are always helpful but there's a certain point where it just overwhelms the text.

[Anonymous No.14932348]

>>14932320
it definitely depends on one's particular interests, but I've always found thorough commentaries much more interesting and useful than app crits -- especially for texts that are too obscure to be understood without commentaries

[Anonymous No.14932365]

>>14932319
rigorous commentaries also offer information about the debates and the reasons different manuscripts and readings are preferred over others

[Anonymous No.14932401]

>>14932259
great link my man

[Anonymous No.14932404]

Anybody here fluent in Old Greek? Is it true what Donna Tartt posits in 'Secret History', that it changes the way you think?

[Anonymous No.14932409]

>>14932404
yes and yes

[Anonymous No.14932413]

we had a really good thread about loebs some time ago, I think it was 2018 or 2019. just look up the url in here >>14932259 on warosu and you should find it

[Anonymous No.14932417]

>>14932404
I'm a classicist, and I have avoided reading any of that old cunt's books. She's a bit of a meme in the field, an embarrassment.

[Anonymous No.14932427]

>>14932417
seething jealous faggot

[Anonymous No.14932437]

>>14932417
You take that back right now you closeted faggot

[Anonymous No.14932449]

>>14932427
although she's a little sexy, and a girl (also somewhat sexy with big milkies but with a face too similar to the weird Toy Story claw baby) from Latin a couple years ago tried to get me to read Tartt, I was hesitant to heed the advice from the start cuz theys both clearly pseuds

[Anonymous No.14932455]

>>14932437
>>14932427
>Donna Tarrt

[Anonymous No.14932457]

>>14932455
THANK YOU
Finally someone with some sense

[Anonymous No.14932461]

Is there a publisher that just publishes the Latin/Ancient Greek editions of these works?

[Anonymous No.14932468]

>>14932222
Because its tradition. same with Mark Antony. You see it in Shakespeare so they keep using it. It was back in the day when there wasnt a whole bunch of foreign stuff so then tended to localize a lot of the names and wordings.

[Anonymous No.14932473]

That is a tranny.

[Anonymous No.14932478]

>>14932461
Oxford Classical Texts, Teubner, cambridge greek and latin classics, Princeton University Press, Bryn Mawr, the list goes on

[Anonymous No.14932488]

>>14932473
look at that adam's apple. fucking eunuch

[Anonymous No.14932493]

>>14932449
i mean i'm not gonna defend her work because i haven't read it, but i just think it's a bummer that classicists would diss her basically for no reason, sounds like envious cope

[Anonymous No.14932496]

>>14932417
>>14932404
>>14932437
>>14932449
>>14932455
>>14932457
>>14932493
>>14932488
if you lads knew what i would do to a yong donna tarrt......

[Anonymous No.14932498]

Month by month, my collection grows.

[Anonymous No.14932503]

>>14932493
I used to think Emily Wilson sucked more than she actually does. I went to a talk she gave at my uni last fall, and she wasnt actually all that bad -- pretty serious and thoughtful as a translator and the content of her talk was almost completely devoid of any social justice shit

[Anonymous No.14932505]

>>14932498
why do you have all those translations on the side if you have the loebs bro, do you just like wasting money?

[Anonymous No.14932513]

>>14932498
Are you a professional classicist or is this a hobby of yours?

[Anonymous No.14932514]

>>14932496
Anon, this white girl only does dogs.

[Anonymous No.14932515]

>>14932503
Based, I enjoyed her translation of Seneca's tragedies

[Anonymous No.14932518]

>>14932514
then i have a chance :^)

[Anonymous No.14932525]

>>14932513

I'm something of a lay classicist.

[Anonymous No.14932526]

>>14932473

[Anonymous No.14932527]

>>14932518
bitch looks like nurse ratchet... i guess if you are into whips and chains

[Anonymous No.14932529]

>>14932503
Do you think she's LARPing as an SJW as a way to get her foot in the door, so to speak?

[Anonymous No.14932536]

>>14932503
lol this completely false. Her Odyssey is full of SJW nonsense.

[Anonymous No.14932544]

>>14932529
I haven't followed her social media presence all that closely, but, in the flesh, she seemed like much more of a standard autist classics nerd. Yet, she was definitely very interested in combating the narrative that the only reason she did it was to be the first woman to translate the Odyssey -- her speech was a list of the reasons that she found a new translation what necessary.

[Anonymous No.14932551]

>>14932536
can I get some citations?

[Anonymous No.14932558]

It is basically pointless to read the 'classics' beyond getting a feel for ancient greek and latin. Once you have mastered those languages you can easily derive, create, construct the entire Classical canon from the building blocks of language. Furthermore, as you write, your use of the language will evolve until you become naturally fluent in modern Greek having just reinvented it. But then you are at a dead end and must repeat the process with the other classical languages. You may find yourself many years down the line writing the latest John Greene Jr novella in Neo-BAME-Anglish (North Hemisphere). Once you've reached 'that' point, you can start with the Greeks - financial mathematics, that is.

[Anonymous No.14932568]

>>14932544
Who gives a shit? Alice Oswald translated the Iliad in 2012. None of the marketing mentioned she was the first woman to do that but with Wilson that was the whole gimmick of the marketing. And the Wilson translation sucks major cock, newfags.

[Anonymous No.14932576]

>>14932241
A szörnyű 'sz' digráfa kivételével a magyar ábécé elég alkalmas az ógörög átírására. Értem miért van 'sz', hisz az ess zöngétleníti az utánalévő zét, míg a zsében az ellentettje történik; a zé zöngésíti az utánalévő esst... Szerintem még mindig jobban járna a magyar ábécé ha 's' lenne essz, és — mintahogy a lengyelekében is — 'sz' lenne az ess.

[Anonymous No.14932590]

>>14932551
>changes "whore" to "sex-worker"
>representing the Odyssey as a pro-open borders, cultural relativist story where Odysseus is a bigoted toxic white male
>changes "fellow Greek from another city" to "Mr Foreigner" (pic rel)
>Wilson blames Odysseus for the death of his men while the original text says no one could save them.

[Anonymous No.14932592]

I've been studying Greek for a few months and going to try my hand at a full text, wish me luck bros

[Anonymous No.14932597]

>>14932592
Good luck, anon. That's probably the best first "real" text for any student of Greek.

[Anonymous No.14932598]

>>14932590
Doesn't look like anything to me

[Anonymous No.14932604]

>>14932598
It's from a thread we had in October, you disgusting simping newfag.
>>/lit/thread/S13980482

[Anonymous No.14932605]

>>14932592
Make sure to leave the package aside for around 10 days to avoid corona-by-post

[Anonymous No.14932611]

>>14932604
>pic was related

You would not pay such attention to the thousands of fan fictions written by teenagers; yet, you pay it to this one. Why?

[Anonymous No.14932623]

>>14932611
>Why don't you pay the same attention to web fanfic than to modern translations supported by major institutions and made by so-called professionals?
Is this what you're asking me?

[Anonymous No.14932681]

>>14932592
yo, wanna read some together? add me on discord, I've been reading Greek for like 3 years, and I haven't gotten around to any Xenophon -- I need to now that I'm starting to work on the Achaemenids and on Greek Democracy and Oligarchy.
- #0541

[Anonymous No.14932764]

>>14932605
I'm not afraid 2 die

>>14932681
I'm sorry if I'm tarded but what's your tag? Mine is Kiko#1176

[Anonymous No.14932767]

i'm so fucking horny

[Anonymous No.14933349]

>>14932767
Who cares fuck off

[Anonymous No.14933534]

>>14932498
None of the books look as if they have been read.

[Anonymous No.14933799]

>>14932498
i came for the loebs but i stayed for the tatti/belles lettres kino

[Anonymous No.14933911]

>>14932272
worse, they do not come with an apparatus criticus. wherefore spurn them

[Anonymous No.14934028]

>>14932212
Not as thorough as the French bilingual series ("Collection des Universités de France or colloquially "Budé"), but a whole lot cheaper, and usually nicer (clearer print, hardback, gold lettering etc). Technically the reference texts are to be found in Oxford or Teubner editions, but only the original language therein

[Anonymous No.14934037]

>>14932272
Sure, but BS aside, questions of textual criticism concern a very slim number of specialists; classicists will usually have the Loeb/Budé edition at home, and if necessary check the OCT and Teubner in a library. They are still invaluable for that reason, except for posers

[Anonymous No.14934058]

>>14932286
Basically yes, and they get more expensive every year (around 60-80 euros or more), while the paraxtextual sections (Introduction, textual history, notes and commentary) get absurdly long, far longer than the actual text in some cases (recently, Favorinus and the Orphic Hymns, e.g.). In consequence, they also require far more volume, so multiply your initial 50 euros by 10 or more for some writers (if you want all of Diodorus (12 Loebs), Budé not advisable, except if you're rich. What I usually do is buy pretty much all my budé (and most Loebs) second hand (usually around 10 euros), sometimes shabby, but usually quite adequate, and give a certain style to your bookshelf. In addition, with Budé, you sometimes get done, when paying piles of money for a new book, but it's just a reprint of an old (1930s-1950s ) text, sometimes with faded ink, letters almost illegible etc. They have a very nice bookshop on boulevard Raspail though, be sure to visit if you drop by

[Anonymous No.14934064]

>>14932310
Basé

[Anonymous No.14934067]

>>14932417
Hello based fellow classicist

[Anonymous No.14934087]

>>14932503
Yeah, it's often the case, you have to cut through the sj advertising and the actual work can be very good in fact (though lmao at the fact she wasn't even the first woman to translate Homer: seems like the patriarchy back in the day didn't really prevent women from doing classics... as anyone who knows Mme Dacier should be aware); she's not just a pseud like that Donna Zuckerberg hack (completely rekt by a classicsit's review in Quillette). Case in point also: Edith Hall; she's a competent scholar, but annoying as a public intellectual, and deliberately moronic in her blogpost on Enoch Powell (definitely a greater classicist); see her edited book on female classicists: interesting to find out more about individual figures, but such a slanted framing... all the more hilarious when the characters themselves are not amenable to such idpol approache (Jacqueline de Romilly is an epic case: when asked what it was like being a woman and of Jewish extraction, working in classics she was like: basically like anyone else, except I was a woman and part Jewish...)

[Anonymous No.14934097]

>>14932536
Oh right, didn't know, not intending to read it, got my trusty Budé for that (and for 19th cent. kino, Leconte de Lisle!)

[Anonymous No.14934100]

>>14932544
Reading classicists' twitter is always a disappointment, they come off as such hacks and normies...

[Anonymous No.14934105]

>>14932590
disgusting...
and "mr foreigner" is pure cringe, ideological debates aside

[Anonymous No.14934111]

>>14934058
Indeed, because they're often the result of somebody's doctoral work (which is more like 500 than 200 measly pages); American PhDs are abit of a joke in French universities (if you disregard institutional prestige), and judging from the absolute state of ones I've encountered online, it's not undeserved

[Anonymous No.14934193]

Rosa Calzecchi Onesti is the only good female translation I know of.

[Anonymous No.14934215]

>>14932212
they're okay but it's too tempting to be lazy and use the translation if you're struggling with a difficult passage. using monolingual editions is harder and more time consuming but ultimately more rewarding.

[Anonymous No.14934241]

>>14932241
No z in Homer's name, dude

[Anonymous No.14934321]

>>14934100
>reading twitter
>ever

[Anonymous No.14934325]

>>14934215
Very true, what are the best monolingual publishers?

[Anonymous No.14934334]

>>14932272
Usually I’ll see Loeb citied in works from academics published in all the big university presses

[Anonymous No.14934354]

>>14932222
>Homeros
>Homo eros
Really makes you think

[Anonymous No.14934359]

>>14932498
That's a beautiful collection my dude.

[Anonymous No.14934361]

>>14934321
Yeah, it's cancer, but I wanted to know how these people think; as it turns out, they don't.
Anyone know Tim Whitmarsh? read an epic defense of black Achilles in that Troy mini-series, because Greeks did not perceive colours the same way as us... how? what? why? Why is almost everyone white, but there's one black guy, and somehow it's not an issue? if uganda had made a film about the Iliad with all black actors, sure, whatever, it's their industry, but this was jarring, and there is no defense for it

[Anonymous No.14934374]

>>14932212
Owzat?

[Anonymous No.14934382]

>>14934374
Also got a few dozen more Budé on another shelf

[Anonymous No.14934386]

>>14932498
I'm unironically impressed

[Anonymous No.14934397]

>>14932212
New attempt

[Anonymous No.14934399]

>>14934397
Also got a few more dozen Budé on another shelf

[Anonymous No.14934413]

>>14934399
This one

[Anonymous No.14934415]

>>14934413
Almost exclusively second-hand, as you can see

[Anonymous No.14934419]

>>14934399
A few Sources chrétiennes also, for early Christian writers (but not my specialty desu), one volume in the CUF "fragments" series (Scholia on Apollonius), Orphic Hymns in Imprimerie Nationale edition (bought before Budé did theirs) and one or two Oxford editions (for law texts: Justinian and Gaius)

[Anonymous No.14934428]

>>14934361
I remember what you’re taking about. This is what our top academics busy themselves with, it seems.

[Anonymous No.14934436]

>>14934428
Well, this was just some crap interview for Radio Times, he's written a couple of interesting books on Greek lit under Rome (though often rather pointlessly jargon-laden -Stuart Hall, postcolonial BS, Butler and other genderfiends, the texual analysis is solid stuff... when he cuts the crap; his pop hist book about ancient atheism - he's a fedora - is pretty poor though). It's all so tiresome

[Anonymous No.14934491]

>>14934325
Bibliotheca Teubneriana and Oxford (Oxford Classical Texts) are the main ones. Both can usually be found pretty cheap second hand on abebooks. Also, for anyone learning Latin but also wanting to improve their German, the publisher reclam has a lot of cheap German/Latin bilingual editions on book depository.

[Anonymous No.14934495]

>>14934413
get off my /b/, Luc Brisson

[Anonymous No.14934700]

>>14934495
Hey, I'm not Brisson, dude! Why would I be? Cuz I'm French?

[Anonymous No.14934815]

>>14934436
It’s like a rainbow of awful.

[Anonymous No.14935106]

>>14934397
very comfy, fren

[Anonymous No.14935110]

>>14934399
patrician's library. very nice anon

[Anonymous No.14935113]

>>14934413
Cicero > Seneca .

[Anonymous No.14935182]

>>14935113
Yeah, I haven't got too many of his philosophical works though, all the speeches though

[Anonymous No.14935210]

>>14935182
just get delphi cicero complete works.

[Anonymous No.14935231]

>>14935210
I prefer my Budés, I'll just complete my collection soon enough

[Anonymous No.14935290]

>>14932241
Bázisolt és magyarpirulázott

[Anonymous No.14935303]

I wish I had one.

[Anonymous No.14935396]

>>14932544
She combats it and then at times retweets praise of it. I agree that she just seems like a classics nerd and has the typical ego/sensitive/own world-type personality most nerds have.
Also academia is gay, you shouldn’t feel threatened by their decisions

[Anonymous No.14935498]

>>14934700
yeah and it's a pretty exceptional library. you could have been Pradeau but I guess he only browses /b/.

[Anonymous No.14935511]

>>14935498
Why thank you, anon... No, I'm pretty much unknown in academia at present, sad to say! but how do you know which philosophers browse what boards??

[Anonymous No.14936245]

>>14932259
BASEDfly

[Anonymous No.14936279]

>>14932212
why should i

[Anonymous No.14936496]

>>14934354
Ὅμηρος
ὁμὸ ἔρως

deceived again

[Anonymous No.14937266]

Why don't the leobs have the apexes!

[Anonymous No.14937424]

>>14932498
based and greekpilled

[Anonymous No.14937430]

>>14935511
I was kidding about Brisson. Pradeau seemed childish enough to browse 4chan, but that was some time ago I must admit.

[Anonymous No.14937466]

>>14932212
One cannot be counted among the learned without having nibbled Macrobius.

[Anonymous No.14937632]

>>14934361
>Why is almost everyone white, but there's one black guy, and somehow it's not an issue?
yeah it's not like there's any precedent in greek myth for subsaharan africans descended from the gods of olympus that fight in the trojan war, right?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memnon_(mythology)
oh shit the sjws have a time machine

[Anonymous No.14937715]

>>14937632
Dude, you really think I don't know about Memnon? More likely you're such a pseud you think you're special for knowing about him, but that's alright, you're on the internet, so no one will know, amirite? That's the whole point of Memnon's character, he's a king from a land far far away, coming to the aid of Troy (like Sarpedon or Penthesileia), a kinsman of the gods moreover (hence also why calling mythical Ethiopia "suhsaharan Africa" is ludicrously out of touch)... Achilles, however, is not, he is a prince of Greece, among his peers, and that's a central point of the Iliad, which is obviously and very visibly undermined by making him stand out like a sore thumb in this way.
(this post should be educational for you and others on the board, at any rate; if b8, gr8, m8)

[Anonymous No.14937767]

>>14937715
D E S T R O Y E
D

[Anonymous No.14937773]

>>14937466
Just nibbled though, anything more and it's indigestion

[Anonymous No.14937794]

>>14937715
Agreed, this retard would make Achilles a woman and then say: "but, what about muh Amazons? you triggered, alt-right snowflake?" Pisses me off

[Anonymous No.14937805]

>>14935210
Cringe, brah

[Anonymous No.14937813]

>>14934815
Will write this phrase down in my notebooks for social occasions

[Anonymous No.14937836]

>>14934419
Sources chrétiennes are also horrendously expensive as I recall

[Anonymous No.14938045]

>>14937715
nice goalpost shifting, faggot. you instantly went from "it's SO RIDICULOUS that there would be a black guy there" to "it's SO OBVIOUS that there was a black guy there" because you did not think about memnon when writing that post and now you have to do this song and dance of mock exasperation to cover your ass. you're also making shit up, it was not at all the point of memnon that he was some sort of exotic figure out of place among the greeks. memnon is absolutely "among his peers" in the company of princes of greece and is second only to achilles in aristocratic virtue. no meaningful change to the ideals of the iliad occurs when you swap the places of birth of memnon and achilles because the whole point is that aristocracy is the same everywhere. these are already people from different tribes that treat each other as peers because they're members of their respective tribes' elites and this elitism is, to use an anachronistic term, inherently "international", cutting across tribal identity, cultural difference and the trojan conflict itself. your insistence that the black aristocrat "doesn't belong" comes from your stubborn refusal to give up your faggy twitter politics even when encountering literature that predates them by millennia.

>>14937794
the whole point of the amazons is that they invert the normal social order of the greeks whereas memnon is a shining example of the values of the greeks despite not being from greece. you need to curb that sjw obsession, it's making you illiterate.

[Anonymous No.14938235]

>>14938045
You're tedious, anonymous dude... There is no goalposting shifting on my part, I merely stated everyone in the Greek army was white... except one Greek prince who was black, because screw any common sense and faithfulness to original mythology, right? but I guess saying this makes me an obsessive over SJWs. Like, just, whatever, my dude, suit yourself. If you think I just forgot about Memnon when I wrote my post, I can't convince you otherwise, obviously, especially judging from your vitriolic response. Of course, I would have had no objection to their making Memnon black (although the Greeks themselves usually did not depict him as so, precisely to stress the ressemblance of all these aristocratic warriors - although interpreting iconography is always a bit fanciful, that's a fairly safe bet).
Your analysis is correct overall, which makes your internet-level aggression all the more amusing; however, it is irrelevant to the sole point I was making, and therefore comes off as pure show: making Achilles black is absurd, and there is no rebuttal to that point. The Greeks were perfectly aware of the nobility of barbarian warriors, but that does not mean a person of just any race can pass as Greek, or that they were all colour blind or something (there is an amusing anecdote in Plutarch to that effect, with a Greek woman giving birth to a black child). All of this, need I stress the point, has nothing to do with twitter politics as you oddly assume... Of course, being a rando on the internet, you can hardly be excpeted to know me, but that is really not my domain.
Basically, maybe curb that anti-anti-SJW obsession, it's making you stupider than you visibly are. No hard feelings though, friend

[Anonymous No.14938390]

>>14937430
Oh right... shame, it was funny to think of an authority in ancient philosophy browing this shitfest of a board and engaging in crappy SJW debates! Dunno much about Pradeau, ngl

[Anonymous No.14938569]

>>14932498
based and sacred philosophy pilled

[Anonymous No.14938601]

>>14932222
Homoros, more like it.

[Anonymous No.14938602]

>>14934397
>>14934399
>>14932498
>tfw one of my PhD having, Greek-teaching professors has like maybe 9 loebs total
who are you guys trying to kid

[Anonymous No.14938615]

>>14934413

[Anonymous No.14939998]

night bump

[Anonymous No.14940611]

>>14938615
u jelly? u scarred?

[Anonymous No.14940885]

>>14938602
I dunno dude, the other solution is just to work in a library all the time, and I dislike that (plus not very easy from a practical perspective)

[Anonymous No.14941079]

>>14932222
maybe because to anglos that sounds closer to romance languages, like spanish, french, italian: nations that annoyed them.