/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.14892774]

You will recall I extensively refuted Dr. Kaffir's two most popular image collections here

>>/lit/thread/S14651153

He has many more. Often filled with simple things everyone knows are false ("Allah is a moon god"), other times filled with things no one really cares about ("He condemned idolatry, the pagans were the victims!") I was going to go through it all but those two prominent factors have not made it a productive use of my time. Instead I will focus on one pic with worthwhile topics and if anyone has questions about what else he said, feel free to ask itt

Here is a /lit/ Islamic discord in case you're interested
https://discord.gg/JwMCrpb

Now without further Ado


>Sunnah
He shows very early on he is no expert, but in fact has no clue what he is talking about. The Sunnah means “wont”, specifically the “wont” of the Prophet ﷺ, which includes everything from judgements to eating habits. He used google or wikipedia for a quick rundown but doesn’t actually know the meaning of the words he is using. The Sunnah and the Seerah are both described by Hadiths, which are statements. The Sunnah has legal ramifications, so it must have much stronger Hadiths. The Seerah has no legal ramification except where it overlaps the Sunnah, so there is more flexibility in Hadiths, generally how scholars go about it is using a combination of Hadiths and historical chronicles; the best Seerah available in one volume is The Sealed Nectar, it is much nore rigorous than, say, Ling’s.

Cont

[Anonymous No.14892783]

>>14892774
>the schools agree on everything but the tiniest details

Not always the case but generally. The four schools all recognize each other as valid but different, and all agree no school is infallible. There is also a small fifth school, Zahiri.

>Saleh al-Fawzan

No one respects this man except for Madkhalis. Saudi Arabia does produce some *excellent* scholars as a country, but no one works for the King’s personal council except the most mendacious shills. To give you an idea of just what I’m talking about, Abulaziz al-Sheikh issued a fatwa in against Palestine in 2017 that said fighting Jews is haram (pretty strange, since Muhammad ﷺ fought Jews numerous times).

>Taqiyya is halal in Islam
His source is a book by a Druze, why can’t he cite one by an Islamic scholar instead of a statement that can’t be falsified and rests completely on the man’s PhD in “Islamic studies” which, frankly, is worth nothing in Islamic jurisprudence? I have already addressed this all before, my last thread lists when lying is accepted in Hadiths. Here I will examine the fiqh excuses for lying he lists and explain them. Taqiyyah, as the Shia practice goes about lying about the religion of Islam, is not acceptable under any circumstances.

>kill all mankind
It says this verse was first REVEALED to the children of Israel (inded it is mentioned in the Talmud), not that it only applies to them. The part about saving one life being equivilant to saving all of humanity is actually the motto of the white helmets

Cont

[Anonymous No.14892792]

>>14892783
>lying by omission

You are actually forbidden from turning Muslims into kuffar, that’s true (note: this doesn’t mean people of Asian ethnicity or whatever, this means people who actually pray), although if they are doing wrong they must be punished by Muslims. That’s not really lying by omission or else Kant’s solution to refusing to disclose one’s friend to the murderer, without lying, is lying by omission.

>mischief
This is a very specific charge referring to warlordism or banditry or rape or prostitution. Crucifixion, amputation, stoning and exile are the possible punishments, depending on the severity of the case. The Taliban recently issued a fatwa against ISIS for mischief

>they’re interpreted VERY flexibly
No. Maybe by takfiris. Not by actual courts. Hadd crimes are very well defined. If by criticism of Islam, he means blasphemy, that is a seperate crime from mischief, although that does get death. Trying to halt Islam as in taking up the sword against if you are a Muslim is treason and gets death. If you aren’t a Muslim, it’s not death but if you are captured before your state submits, it is halal to ransom or enslave you. Islamic law is very black and white when it comes to Hudud, the flexibility only exists in Tazir. Differences of ideas of Hudud vary from Maddhabs but that is because they genuinely have different strict ideas of Hudud. For example Ibn Taymiyyah said deliberately missing one prayer out of neglect makes you an apostate and thus eligible for the death penalty (but in all schools, apostasy must be proved and three days for repentance must be allowed; if the person repents, they are pardoned), whereas most would say you have to stop all prayer out of laziness for a defined number of days before it is considered apostasy. These are not fuzzy positions. And anyway killing people for these things can’t be done extrajudicially, there has to be due process. Extrajudicial killing here is murder even you know the person is guilty.

Cont

[Anonymous No.14892812]

45:6 forbids hadiths

[Anonymous No.14892818]

>>14892792
>blending in
In fact the very reason Muslims grow beards, for example, is to distinguish themselves from kuffar. The Prophet ﷺ specifically said to grow your beard out and trim your mustache so you look different. Blending in is permitted if your life is in danger or you are spying or conducting an assassination, that’s about it. If you are just living among kuffar and they aren’t trying to kill you, blending in should only be done to the extent that it doesn’t violate what we are supposed to do to distinguish ourselves. Danger is not an elastic term here, there are plenty of fatwas on this where someone asks something like, “Can I just pray in my car if people don’t like Muslims?” and the answer is “No”. Qur’anic terms in Arabic are defined in court and jurisprudence by Arabic writing contemporary or prior to the Qur’an, there can be dispute over their meanings, but if you can’t find an instance of the term being used in a certain way in those Arabic writings, it cannot legally be understood to mean that. You think it’s an accident our religion has resisted change so well? Christians nowadays are saying eunuch in the Bible refers to gays; see, if they were like us they could never say that, because they would have to show Greek writing contemporary or prior to the Bible using the term eunuch to mean homosexual.

>war
Yes, lying is permitted if you are captured in war, if you are lying about reinforcements coming, etc. It is not in treaties though because those are made in the Name of God, which it is not permitted to lie in under any circumstances; treaties are only void if the other side breaks them, or they have a limited time and expire.

>settling a disagreement
See exactly what this means here
islamqa.info/en/answers/65500

>gaining the sympathy of a victim

Yes, this is permitted for qisas. In qisas, the victim of a crime has a right to exact the same harm he has inflicted, it is referred to as an eye for an eye in the Qur’an. However if he doesn’t, if he forgives, it expiates his sins. So if you break a man’s arm in an assualt, he is entitled to break your arm. Under these cirumstances you must be restrained by the authorities as he does it. In pleading for his mercy though you may make up reasons or something of the like. If he spares you, it is very good for him and, well, obviously preferable for you. This is sanctioned.

[Anonymous No.14892826]

>>14892812
How? Are saying no true statements are made apart from the Qur'an?

[Anonymous No.14892838]

>>14892826
You can't verify the vast majority of hadiths
>avoiding the Abu Hurairah problem aren't we

[Anonymous No.14892840]

>>14892818
>that sounds terribly childish
Well Imam Shafi’i, the one who founded the school, used this. In his time Mutazilla were torturing anyone who would not say the Qur’an is created. They asked him and he said, the Torah, the Psalms, the Gospel and the Qur’an. Then hold up his fingers and pointed at them and said, “These four were created.” The questioners knew what he was doing but it was good enough. Imam Ahmed, who founded the school I follow, however just said “No.” And he was tortured. That’s really the most praiseworthy way I think but the Shafi’i approach isn’t particularly childish, it was originally designed as a way of not denying what you believe and letting your persecutors know, while at the same time placating them. The situation when this can be done is when you are facing direct religious persecution.

[Anonymous No.14892848]

>>14892838
That's correct, which is why over 99% were rejected

[Anonymous No.14892862]

>>14892848
So when the hadiths establish a bizarre talmudism in Sunnism, and the Quran says don't do this, and there are hadiths of the Prophet and Umar forbidding these collections, not to mention an account of Umar threatening Abu Hurairah for fabricating hadiths, my question is:
WHAT IS GOING ON?

[Anonymous No.14892865]

>>14892840
>it’s petty to say when and how lying is permissible
Why? It’s better than just winging it and shooting from the hip.

>is jihad more important?

Jihad is war, everyone lies in war, you are being ridiculous if you are saying there is something wrong with this. Are you going to decry how the U.S. found out about the attack on Midway by sending a phoney message about it?

>I will not eat this wheat

He wilfully interprets this as hairsplitting when it’s not, it’s about the problem of identity. The following example is “I will not drink from this river”, then drinking from a jug with the river water in it (this, it says, is breaking an oath). Without clear points like this, you might say, “I swear to not touch your wife,” and then have someone call you an oathbreaker because you have a hair of hers in your food. It’s a question of whether flour has the same legal identity as the wheath it is produced from, which it obviously does not. Islam understands perjury totally different from the west. Oaths cannot be demanded in court (except for cases of adultery), and lying to the court (unless it's false accusation) isn't a crime, it's considered reasonable for someone to not want to be convicted under Sharia and they can't be expected to confess, confession must be given four times without duress and can be revoked at any to. However if you break oath outside of court, to a Muslim or kaffir, that is illegal, so if it goes to court it must be carefully dealt with, as even verbal oaths are legally binding.

>gang-raped and killed
First of all, enslaving a woman outside of fighting against her people in jihad is a serious crime. If you are fighting jihad, then enslaving her makes her halal to take as a concubine, but gang-rape is haram, extremely haram, she can’t gave sex with anyone but her master and pimping out your slave is forbidden (Qur’an 24:33). Killing or mutilating your slave is also forbidden, striking them with a switch or cane is permitted to punish them, but not in the face and no so hard to bruise or make them bleed.

[Anonymous No.14892895]

>>14892862
By bizarre Talmudism you mean laws and rules? Last I checked the Talmud is pure taqlid, whereas Hadiths are the opposite of taqlid

Not sure if you are serious about the Shia attacks on Abu Hurairah, radhi Allahu anhu. But for future reference those are intended to discredit Sunni Hadiths, not Hadiths in general

[Anonymous No.14892907]

>>14892895
>Although credited with over 5000 hadith, Al-Bukhari's biography of the Prophet Muhammad noted that Abu Hurairah was a minor companion and a late convert to Islam who only spent approximately 3 years in the company of the Prophet. In contrast to Hurairah, Prophet Muhammad's closest companions are credited with far less hadith; Abu Bakr is credited with 142 hadith, Uthman ibn Affan with 146, Umar ibn Khattab with 537, and Ali ibn Abi Talib with no more than 586 hadith.
Smells kosher to me

[Anonymous No.14892910]

>>14892865

>Insha Allah
This is phrase of great significance and is stressed in the Qur’an, its purpose is to express uncertainty because it is not something you control; when used as an “exception” clause to an oath, it means circumstances utterly beyond your power (for example, you make an oath to marry a woman tomorrow, but there is a hurricane and you are prevented from doing so). Insha Allah and “Wallah” or “Wallahi” are almost never used together and in fact are improper to do so (it is also improper to use “Insha Allah” when you say, “May Allah do x”, the correct rejoinder is “Ameen”). So the two can only be used together if one or the other is rhetorical or a caveat. In one case, “Wallah” (by God!) is rhetorical (the same way in English one says “I swear” rhetorically), in the other Insha Allah (God willing) is rhetorical; according to the Reliance, if the latter is, then the oath is binding without exception even if something happens beyond someone’s control (same paragraph Dr Kafir is citing):
>But if he merely says it [Insha Allah] out of habit, not intending to make an exception to his oath, or if he says it after having finished swearing his oath, the exception is not valid (O: because when an oath has been completed, its efficacy is established and not eradicable by statement of exception).

>8:58

This does not just allow you to break treaties, it requires you to public renounce a treaty to them if it’s one indefinite in length. He should have kept reading to 8:61. Al-Qaeda recently released a statement congratulating the Taliban and reminding its members they must honor it as that is an obligation on Muslims

>Addressing the “mujahideen in proud Afghanistan,” Al-Qaeda’s senior leadership reminds them that all are ethically bound by the withdrawal agreement with the U.S., as only the “Crusaders and their agents” are allegedly in the “habit” of breaching accords.

https://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2020/03/al-qaeda-lauds-talibans-great-victory-over-america-and-allies.php

>lying about female circumcision
I addressed this completely in the thread linked above

>killing innocent
Strawman. Islam forbids kill women, children, priests, monks and elderly. Any fighting-age man is considered a valid target in wartime. If you are interested in the rules of jihad, check out al-Muwatta, the oldest Hadith collection, it has a whole section on jihad

>hypocrite
A munafiq means someone who pretends to be a Muslim. Jihad can be both obligatory (defensive) or a good deed (offensive). Failure to participate in obligatory jihad is a serious offense, but not apostasy. It was revealed in the Quran a group of men who didn't were enemy sympathizers who pretended to convert. They were not killed.

Cont

[Anonymous No.14892915]

>>14892907
A'isha, radhi Allahu anha, had 2,000 and mostly corroborate him

[Anonymous No.14892920]

365x3=1095
5000/1095=4.56 hadiths per day spent with the Prophet, assuming he spent every day of three years with the Prophet

[Anonymous No.14892928]

>>14892910
>Zakat
That's tax, 2.5% on capital (not income), not charity. The confusion is that outside Muslim countries the tax can be put toward a charity (or jihad, yes). The term for charity is still, not zakat

I don't think the rest of the pic is important to address but if there is anything there you want me to feel free to bring it up

[Anonymous No.14892938]

Are you employed by the masonic fronts CAIR/Muslim Brotherhood to keep the goyim "informed" about "real Islam?"

[Anonymous No.14892943]

>>14892920
He was with him four years. Please read Sunni accounts instead of just Shia Wiki force

https://sunnahonline.com/library/history-of-islam/306-abu-hurayrah

[Anonymous No.14892945]

>>14892774
Refute this : Islam is to the abrahamic religions as niggers are to mankind. Primitive, intellectually sterile, and destructive.

[Anonymous No.14892947]

>>14892943
That doesn't change anything

[Anonymous No.14892948]

>>14892938
CAIR I dislike, they are state department shills; the Muslim American Association is okay. I do not identify with the Muslim Brotherhood as they are not revolutionary enough, however please give the source they are Masonic, as that would mean Hamas is

[Anonymous No.14892954]

>>14892948
>as that would mean Hamas is
DING DING DING EVERYTHING IS A FARCE! WINNER!

[Anonymous No.14892956]

>>14892947
It changes a lot. He was distinguished for basically doing nothing but hanging around Muhammad ﷺ to memorize what he did and said

[Anonymous No.14892969]

>>14892954
Hm, no.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamism_in_the_Gaza_Strip

[Anonymous No.14892975]

>>14892948
Meant Muslim American Society*

[Anonymous No.14892993]

>>14892969
Lmfao don't get lost in jew games akhi. I hope it gnaws the back of your mind until you go look for the truth. Good luck

[Anonymous No.14893002]

>>14892975
>MAS was created by the Muslim Brotherhood in the United States after a debate among Muslim Brotherhood members in the U.S. about whether to remain underground or to have a public face.[4][5]

>MAS has instructed its members to evade questions about the group's ties to the Muslim Brotherhood, and to define jihad as a "divine legal right" of Muslims to be used for defense and the spread of Islam.[6] MAS leaders have said that these views are not now held by MAS leaders.[7]
MASonic
Lmfao is there any hope for the ummah?

[Anonymous No.14893007]

>>14893002
Please provide evidence of your accusation. Prominent scholars of theirs have issued fatwas against Masons. Muslims hate Masons

[Anonymous No.14893008]

>DUDE I WAS ONLY COMMITTING FASAD TO SPREAD ISLAM

[Anonymous No.14893014]

>>14893007
These guys "hated masons" too

[Anonymous No.14893022]

>>14893008
Fasad? Where?

>>14893014
That is understandable

[Anonymous No.14893047]

>>14893022
>That is understandable
Hating masons while making masonic handshakes in front of the camera, not to mentiom structuring the Thule Society on masonry? Yeah, understandable, but not for the reasons you think

[Anonymous No.14893057]

>>14893047
I don't know anything about Masonic handshakes. Are you saying the Muslim Brotherhood uses them?

[Anonymous No.14893065]

>>14893057
Maybe you should learn instead of "teaching" then

[Anonymous No.14893079]

>>14893065
Maybe you should substantiate you accusations instead of lying and repeating Sisi and Shia memes?

[Anonymous No.14893089]

>>14893079
In an account published by the Chicago Tribune in 2004, Shaker Elsayed, a top MAS official, admitted that the organization was founded by Muslim Brotherhood members, but also said that MAS now has no connection with them and disagree with them on many issues.[14]

Legal proceedings related to the trials of the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development (HLF), eventually designated by the U.S. authorities as a terrorist front providing material support to Hamas reinforced the case for MAS’ affiliation to the Muslim Brotherhood.[16][17] FBI agent Laura Burns, who was involved in the HLF investigation, testified that a phonebook found at the home of an unindicted co-conspirator and former assistant to Hamas leader Musa Abu Marzook, Ismail Elbarrasse, included the names of the three founding incorporators of the Muslim American Society among the contact information of Muslim Brotherhood leaders in the United States. The founders of the Muslim American Society were, in fact, Ahmad Elkadi, Jamal Badawi, and Omar Soubani.[17]

MAS has acknowledged in the past its Muslim Brotherhood foundations, as affirmed by the 2004 statements of then Secretary General of MAS Shaker Elsayed, who famously declared: “Ikhwan members founded MAS…”[14]

Ahmed-Ullah, Roe and Cohen also claimed that Muslim Brotherhood leaders both in the U.S. and in Egypt campaigned for the founding of the Muslim American Society in the early 1990s.[14] According to the authors, the goal of the organization was to promote the same ideological goals as the Muslim Brotherhood, namely the reformation of American society through the spread of Islam towards the final establishment of Islamic rule on American soil.[14]

Moreover, the connection between MAS and the Muslim Brotherhood was definitively corroborated by Abdurrahman Alamoudi, an influential lobbyist and fundraiser, once advisor to Bill Clinton’s administration who pleaded guilty in 2004 to charges including engaging in illegal financial transactions with the Libyan government and facilitating a Libyan plot to assassinate then-Saudi Crown Prince Abdullah.[18] Alamoudi testified in court in 2012 that MAS was a branch of the Muslim Brotherhood.[18]

More in general, MAS overtly advertises on its website publications authored and/or promoted by prominent Muslim Brotherhood figures, such as the well-known scholar and radical preacher Yusuf al-Qaradawi and the founder of the movement Hasan al-Banna, which are reputed to be essential readings for training purposes.[11]

In fact, in an article published by the Counterterrorism Blog in 2007 Mohamed Habib, a Cairo-based senior Muslim Brotherhood official, reportedly ascribed the reasons for MAS’ simultaneously espousing the Muslim Brotherhood ideology and distancing itself from the global movement to “security inconveniences” experienced by the organization after 9/11 in the U.S.[19]

[Anonymous No.14893102]

>>14893089
The MAS is the American branch of the Muslim Brotherhood, I know. I'm not affiliated with it but they're much better than CAIR. I meant the Masonic accusations

[Anonymous No.14893108]

>>14893102
>I'm not affiliated
I have this nagging feeling to the contrary

[Anonymous No.14893117]

>>14893108
I'm pro Taliban and militants. The Ikhwan want democratic change and I don't quite trust them due to Qaradawi's betrayal

[Anonymous No.14893145]

>>14893117
>militants
Militants? Militant against what? Militants in general? "I support militantism?" How old are you? Is this a honeypot? Does militant mean anything at all in a dog and pony show? If someone makes a serious charge should you stick your head in the metaphorical sand demanding proof you don't actually want to see? Am I a Shi'a plot? Are you? Is /lit/?
>FUN FACT AYATOLLAH KHOMEINI WAS A FREEMASON INSTALLED BY THE BRITISH AND CIA. ROUHANI IS ALSO A FREEMASON. EXCELLENT JEWISH WRITING, NEVER SAW THE TWIST COMING.

[Anonymous No.14893150]

>>1489314


I never accused Shia of being Masons

[Anonymous No.14893153]

SPOILER ALERT:
GADAFFI'S MOTHER WAS A JEW
THE HOUSE OF SAUD ARE BABYLONIAN JEWS FROM BASRA
MOHAMED MORSI=MM=MASTER MASON
MADHABS ARE TALMUDRY FOR GOYIM
THERE IS NO DAJJAL

[Anonymous No.14893175]

وَإِذَا قِيلَ لَهُمُ اتَّبِعُوا مَا أَنزَلَ اللَّهُ قَالُوا بَلْ نَتَّبِعُ مَا أَلْفَيْنَا عَلَيْهِ آبَاءَنَا ۗ أَوَلَوْ كَانَ آبَاؤُهُمْ لَا يَعْقِلُونَ شَيْئًا وَلَا يَهْتَدُونَ - 2:170

[Anonymous No.14893240]

>>14893153
Looks like you lost the argument

[Anonymous No.14893282]

>>14893240
Oh really Ikhwan patsy?

[Anonymous No.14893302]

Who can point out where Dajjal is mentioned in the Quran? I'll be waiting.