Why should I become a Fascist?

[Anonymous No.14892353]

What's so good/cogent about Fascism? Why is violence necessary? What role did Dante Alighieri have in the ideology, because he's being mentioned so much?

[Anonymous No.14892386]

>>14892353
It's some FascOps ploy to associate more with Italian fascism since with all the propaganda about the German one, it hasn't worked out so well

[Anonymous No.14892411]

>>14892353
You shouldn't, fascism is retarded.

[Anonymous No.14892488]

It triggers the Establishment, which is always fun... ;-)

Also, if you are a white heterosexual male you are the enemy of the establishment by their definition, targeted as the source of all evil by virtue of you race and cisgender, told you are evil if you talk back, and pushed by a hateful ideology toward record high addiction suicide rates.
We need to fight back against the identity politix which are destroying our society and its young men with our own identity politix.

[Anonymous No.14892689]

>>14892353
It's good because it reins in liberalism (which left unrestrained will destroy a people/civilization), and because it subordinates capitalism to higher values (ethnos being the most important imo).

Your question about violence seems loaded... All societies rely upon violence to maximize compliance with their ruleset — that's the human condition. If not for the threat of violence, I certainly wouldn't pay taxes to my 'democratic' gov. to help it continue foreign aid/misadventures in the middle east and 'the great replacement'.

Now I'm not utopian... Fascism wouldn't be perfect and there is always an element of corruption in any system. But we (white people in particular) need to push back hard against neoliberalism (endgame liberalism+capitalism) before it destroys us.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.14892702]

>>14892689
>Smug space fascist
Republicans are right liberals
Fascists are authoritarian liberals

[Anonymous No.14892894]

>>14892702
I'm not an absolutist. Both liberalism and capitalism confer significant advantages, but they also tend to 'take over' to the detriment of crucial values (we also see this with technology). I'm not interested in pretending to be purely 'non-liberal', I'm interested in a system that would wisely inhibit liberalism (and capitalism, and technology) to make it less cancerous.

Did you even try to understand my post? Oh wait, you're butterfag — you have the intellectual depth of a bird bath (and even less intellectual honesty).

[Anonymous No.14893192]

>>14892702
ok woman

[Anonymous No.14893239]

>>14892353
Fascism is basically extreme social Darwinism. You should only become a fascist if you get to be in the ruling class after the takeover.

If you can't be, you are just a cuck who wants to serve stronger men.
If the Fascist movement can't even take over you are a failed cuck.

[Anonymous No.14893987]

>>14893239
That's a hopelessly individualistic way of skewing things. Consider the purpose of society in the first place.

[Anonymous No.14894219]

>>14892689
There's state monopoly on force, then there's fascism's intrinsic need for a enemy/pathogen to purge.
Otherwise there's no threat to the dominant culture, thus no fear and anxiety among the proletariat, and no role for the demagogue to take to 'protect' the people.

Why is ethnicity the most important value to you?

[Anonymous No.14894523]

>>14892353
You shouldn't.

[Anonymous No.14894536]

>>14892702
I want to eat her pussy from the back. Anyeays fascism is gay

[Anonymous No.14894637]

>>14892488
>Also, if you are a white heterosexual male you are the enemy of the establishment by their definition, targeted as the source of all evil by virtue of you race and cisgender
Imagine having this much of a victim complex, good luck in the oppression Olympics

[Anonymous No.14894670]

>>14892488
yeah bro you have it soooo hard in life being a straight white male, lmao

[Anonymous No.14894682]

>>14893239
Baffling lack of understanding. Jesus.

[Anonymous No.14895198]

>>14892353
Dante said that those who couldn't pick a side have a special place in Hell

[Anonymous No.14895222]

Have you ever seen a fascist and thought "I wanna be a retard just like him"? I know i haven't.

[Anonymous No.14895248]

>>14892689
Serious question for you. Why do you think the ethnos is the most important?

[Anonymous No.14895259]

>>14892689
>>14895248
Also, what would you say constitutes the ethnos in this specific example? I sympathize with this view but I tend to reject the emphasis on the ethnos and the notion of “white” as an ethnos in the first place. I’m curious to hear your thoughts.

[Anonymous No.14895295]

>>14894670
Correct.

[Anonymous No.14895316]

>>14892353
https://discord.gg/SCXq7KE

[Anonymous No.14895908]

>>14894219
Well, there are always 'pathogens'. Even in the absence of subversive enemies, there are always excesses to guard against (unrestrained liberalism, capitalism & technology as I noted earlier). I reject the notion that a fascist society requires a uniquely high degree of fear/anxiety to function once past the revolutionary phase, it only requires that people not sink into complacency (perhaps this is an unrealistic expectation, but I don't see any better alternatives than attempting to resist).

Ethnicity is the most important because humanity is not a monolithic entity, it is a range of diverse peoples who are not interchangeable. A nation -is- it's people, and if the government's highest value is not to preserve and empower that people, then it has become a maladaptive vehicle — a tool in service of oligarchs, the corrupt and the deluded.

If you don't care about your people, you're sick with individualism and/or blinded by pathological empathy.

>>14895259
See above. Peoples are different. There is no universal morality/solution that will work optimally for all of them, nor should we want to homogenize/destroy human ethnic diversity (what a vuglar 'ideal' that is). 'Whites' need to be particularly concerned, since we have more recessive alleles (miscegenation results in the disproportionate loss of our genetic material), we're less fecund, and we implement a more 'humanitarian' social strategy (which outgroups can easily manipulate to usurp us).

I don't see whites as a single ethnos, but we are a closely related genetic cluster facing similar challenges, so it's only natural that we work together as allies. In Europe, Europeans should peserve their diversity (for the most part, I'm not an absolutist). In North America I think we should just be concerned with keeping our 'whiteness' in general (we have our differences too, but bringing in whites from wherever isn't going to destroy that in the way that browns/blacks are).

[Anonymous No.14896151]

>>14892488
Imagine being this retarded

[Anonymous No.14896853]

>>14895908
I suppose I disagree but I can sympathize with the viewpoint. Being somewhere on the far right myself, I can agree that at least some importance must be placed on the ethnos. How much importance is probably one of the areas where we diverge. As to your comment about the path forward in North America, it implies that you believe there is a path forward for an ethnic-based fascist system of ethics in North America, specifically in the United States. Would you say that?

[Anonymous No.14898056]

>>14896853
Ethnos is crucially important... The genetics of the population will shape the future more than anything (except cosmic events). Even if you think we will become transhuman some day, the nature of the population prior to that epoch is going to influence the form of transhumanity. What politics are possible is also determined by genetics. Then there is just simple self-love... If you appreciate what you are, who you are, your culture, your legacy — then you must acknowledge the genes that made that all possible.

No, I don't think a path is open yet in NA. Sadly, I think whites are going to definitively lose hegemony over this region... It won't be until we're made properly uncomfortable — once we can no longer ignore the existential threat against us — that we might adopt such an attitude cohesively. We'll have to surrender our cities and rally together in various regions, doing our best to insulate ourselves from the shitstorm and becoming healthy, proud peoples again.

Hopefully some 'based' European nations might set great examples for us in NA and accelerate our awakening, but I think we're just still too anaesthetized by material comfort.

[Anonymous No.14898082]

>>14892488
Apropos digits, mein Freund.

[Anonymous No.14898240]

>>14895908
>requires a uniquely high degree of fear/anxiety to function once past the revolutionary phase
That's exactly what happened to Italy and Germany, who happened to be ones that got the short end of the stick post WW1. This was parallel to the explosion of socialism/communism, which everyone in the west saw as a threat. .

>A nation -is- it's people
I understand your reasoning behind it, but in effect you are rallying around a snapshot of the "people", which as in the animal kingdom is the last variety on a pile of extinct versions.

Let's say someone wants an Italy for the Italian people.
Well where's the point we cement the concept of "Italian"?
Do we protect the romans? The Venetians? Where does Sicily or Sardinia factor in all of these?
Is this within the current standing borders, or would any peoples descended from within the previous Venetian empire also count? Would Byzantium be part of it?

It seems largely arbitrary, and a "people" with a common identity will always find ways to divide themselves.

[Anonymous No.14898314]

>>14898056
I don’t share that view but I can see the argument for it. My point of contention would be the emphasis placed on biology. I rather take the view of a immaterial conception as what matters more, but I do see your point and I concede it is still important to a degree.

As for North America, I don’t see any path forward, frankly. I am an American and I’ve only grown increasingly disenchanted with my country. My own analysis has led me to believe that America is simply rotten to the core, has been from the start, and always will be. There is simply nothing left to restore let alone conserve in my honest opinion. I plan on leaving, if I can help it.

[Anonymous No.14899026]

>>14898240
I disagree, once established those regimes enjoyed a great degree of confidence and optimisim for several years (all revolutions however, are rectionary — so you aren't saying much). Germany impressed the world. I won't pretend that people weren't afraid of falling afoul of those governments, but let's also not pretend that Hitler and Mussolini weren't widely adored by their people. I reject the idea that a fascist government would have to foment war to persist (the joint instance of ger/ita does not convincingly prove such a necessity, ironically you're scaremongering here), and if we're frank we have to admit that major liberal powers today routinely manufacture/dramatize/spin events to keep people distracted and controlled.

I'm not arguing for snapshot, I understand that phenotypes change, but the speed and magnitude of the change induced by mass immigration is way beyond the historical genetic churn (as is the increased genetic 'distance' of people coming in... not just geographic neighbours anymore). This is reckless... In the case of Europeans with our recessive alleles, we are in the span of decades endagering a dviersity that took thousands of years to evolve. As for your criticism of the taxonomy, there are no 'perfect' boundaries (obviously), but if it were truly arbitrary then you literally wouldn't be able to distinguish between a Sardinian and a Sicilian, or a Northern/Southern Italian, or detect their genetic closeness relative to an African. As you're pointing out for me, Europeans are already significantly diverse and do not require an influx of destructive dominant genes which will -reduce- that diversity. As for being allied under a banner of 'whiteness', we are in fact a genetic cluster — a broad family if you will — and what your eyes tell you about who is 'white' (and to what degree) aligns very well with the genetic data (pic related). So yes, there are divisions (which can be preserved since we're not mingling with dominant genes), but there are also commonalities which make us a family relative to the rest of the world.

>>14898314
Yeah... I'm not a spiritualist, so that notion doesn't hold any water for me. Which isn't to say that I'm opposed to spiritualism (I recognize its utility), I just think that what we actually are and will become is a matter of biology.

I can understand your perspective. Things do look pretty grim... I would say though that white-flight has been a thing for many decades already, and there are still very charming smaller towns out there that are far less degenerate than the urban sprawls. While they won't prevent our countries from rotting in general, they at least represent possible redoubts for us (instead of leaving, which provides no gaurantees either).

[Anonymous No.14899165]

>>14898056
>>14898314

This puts a smile on my face honestly I love to see the anxiety

[Anonymous No.14899213]

>>14892488
>I'm disprivileged so I'm entitled to free shit
Don't act like a minority. Pursue your own interests.

[Anonymous No.14899222]

>>14892353
Monarchism is better.

[Anonymous No.14899232]

>>14892353

It’s fair enough to suppose that the desire for fascism corresponds with mankind’s innate love of harmony, only manifested in political order. That’s a sensible idea, but as this takes shape in the white nationalism of Americans the ideology becomes quite laughable. Sure, the aesthetics and fantasies are more than appealing, but the crucial misstep is the delusion that whites will be firmly united under insecurity, bitterness, and nostalgia rather than any traits actually congenial for a proper revolution and civilization. Bitterness is not productive, righteous anger sure, but not the anxiety driven spite which so acidly ferments in the white nationalist’s heart. The zeniths of European culture were produced under a genuine love for art, nature, and the universe as a whole, whereas today’s nationalist believes he will inherit and further those zeniths propelled by the already smoldering flame of his spite and insecurity. It’s a joke really, and for the amount of animosity directed against “minority groups” and our varying conglomerates, at least we (though I can only speak for black people here) have based our resistance and revolutionary fervor on self-love and justice, among other edifying virtues. The white nationalist needs to love himself, his family, his community, he needs to view differences as vehicles for creative potential rather than for contempt, and then after he’s cleansed himself of the corrupting traits of supremacy, he can return to the joys of his culture after having dismantled their tyrannical institutions, otherwise he’ll me trampled by the future as his anxiety warns him.

[Anonymous No.14899409]

>>14899232
That's why natsoc is the best option. We're united in the love for our european people, and our actions are taken purely to protect and better them. You're mistaken if you think true fascists/natsoc dislike other races, we just prefer our own and realize the fact that multiracial/multicultural nations breed contempt, unstability, etc. I respect any true fascist, no matter his race - one struggle. The mongrels you speak of are trash, that is true, and also why we're given a bad name.

[Anonymous No.14899436]

>>14899165
What anxiety lol? This person’s view is not my ideal but would be a positive development.

[Anonymous No.14899464]

>>14899232
This is propaganda. The vast majority of white nationalists I know are very reasonable and empathetic people, who only desire the same prerogatives of hegemony and identity that non-whites assert while hypocrtically decrying whites for attempting to do the same. The double-standards and distortions of history are beyond insane. We do not want to dominate the world, we do not hate or want to exterminate non-whites, we just want to ensure a bright future for ourselves and our children.

Is there some bitterness and resentment? Sure, and how can those people be blamed, given the magnitude of the anti-white campaign being waged against them? How deluded and suffering from malaise would they have to be to not resent such a thing? What you're attempting here is petty character-assassination, because you have no logical, non-hypocritical argument against us.

To the contrary, I observe that most black activists are firmly entrenched in and motivated by a victimhood mentality; they define themselves by their relation to whites (suppposed oppression), not by any true dormant potential or past legacy of their own.

The rest is just platitudes and the same old double-standard employed against whites. As if somehow 'minorities' looking out for their own interests are intrinsically more righteous than whites doing the same. What a crock of shit.

[Anonymous No.14899507]

>>14899409

Right, well the edenic ethnostate is a shared fantasy between black and white nationalists, but the means and necessities for establishing such clearly vary. Your ideals make sense as far as wanting a synchronized and healthy civilization goes, but once the vitriol and tactless violence gets proposed we end up in a fight. I have to curse fascism by nature for how its attitudes have antagonized my people, but the yearning of white masses for it is something I do understand, albeit I’d suggest sinking your hopes into something less blatantly moribond. Whites need to sort out the psychological maladies they’ve suffered at the hands of their own supremacy, otherwise their ideals will quickly turn on them like a double-edge. Of course, you’d have to admit that something is wrong in the first place with the fantasy many of you have carved for yourself, but if you do there’s many rewards to reap. And I don’t say this as if me or my people were exempt from this process, the psychological warps produced by capitalism, supremacy, patriarchy, etc. need to be undone by all to procure a happy, enriched soul.

[Anonymous No.14899540]

Because it’s based

[Anonymous No.14899543]

>>14899507
You’re so poorly informed and properly programmed it’s painful.

> I have to curse fascism by nature for how its attitudes have antagonized my people

What exactly did it do to antagonize your people?

> Whites need to sort out the psychological maladies they’ve suffered at the hands of their own supremacy

You’re still equating NatSoc with white supremacy even though it’s been said that they’re not the same thing.

> Of course, you’d have to admit that something is wrong in the first place with the fantasy many of you have carved for yourself

What fantasy is that exactly?

> I don’t say this as if me or my people were exempt from this process, the psychological warps produced by capitalism, supremacy, patriarchy, etc. need to be undone by all to procure a happy, enriched soul

I’ll leave this one for someone else.

[Anonymous No.14899556]

>>14899464

The “victim culture” myth is likewise propaganda. Since the early 20th century black liberation has foremost been about self-affirmation, self-determination, self-love, and other revitalizing virtues. We are interested in carving our place in the world as we see fit, not under the supervision of an oppressor nor the hypnosis of their propaganda. We necessarily acknowledge racism as a tenant in this journey because it is a significant part of our history on this planet, but if you think liberation struggle and black culture in general is based on our relationship with this single tenant of our history them you’re well mistaken.

Anyway, the publicized rhetoric and experiences I’ve had with these white nationalists don’t convince me that my sentiments are based solely on propaganda. Just look at what happens if you make a thread about black authors on this board, it’s flooded with ridicule, obviously of a deliberately childish fashion, but resultant of some complex nonetheless. And you can say there’s no difference in fundamental ideologies between the two groups if you want, but there seems to be a lot more alienated and depressive white nationalists than their black counterparts. I’m sure you’re all secretly thriving and the constant online bickering is just a overrepresented blip. But maybe I’m wrong! After all I’m sure your assessment of black liberation struggle and our culture is based on glimpses you’ve gotten from twitter and kids in high school, lol.

[Anonymous No.14899809]

>>14899556
To whatever degree that is actually the case, I fully respect such wholesome people. To say that black victim culture is a myth, however, is just a plain lie. We see it on full display, everyday, in the news, academia, workplace, etc. It's ubiquitous and unequivocal.

Well, since the circumstances of blacks and whites in the west are fundamentally different, I don't think a flat comparison makes any sense. How likely is a black in the west to become an ethnonationalist, when realistically they benefit from living with whites? Do they have to be concerned about Africa being overrun by non-blacks or an existential threat to blacks in general (perhaps the Chinese, but not really)? Is miscegenation really a losing proposition for them, or does it represent an 'upgrade'? It's more likely that a black would advocate for black solidarity (as a social strategic advantage) while not actually seeking to meaningfully disengage from whites... It doesn't seem like they really oppose the multi-racial experiment or anti-white narratives either, since they still stand to gain by riding that wave (or so they think).

In terms of childish ridicule, I would submit that most of it is a knee-jerk reaction to the fact that we are socially prohibited from criticizing non-whites or pointing out average differences. Of course there will always be boorish types, no people is perfect. I'd note that the facetiousness and taunting which you display does not positively distinguish your character.

[Anonymous No.14899843]

>>14899556
> Just look at what happens if you make a thread about black authors on this board, it’s flooded with ridicule, obviously of a deliberately childish fashion, but resultant of some complex nonetheless.

See, if we were in, say, the 50s, and someone brought up a female author, or a black author, I wouldn't think twice of their legitimacy. But since it's current year, I'll have to assume that any author who is not white, male, and heterosexual is artificially propped up due to the woke times we live in until proven otherwise.

Also, if you still insist on the racist line of attack, you'll have to explain why nobody bats an eye when asian authors come up. People on /lit/ can barely stop sucking on Dazai's and Mishima's dick.

[Anonymous No.14899854]

>>14899507
>patriarchy

Haha nigga you trippin'

[Anonymous No.14899859]

>>14895908
>>14899026
Where do I find more people like you, anon?

[Anonymous No.14899871]

>>14895198
They were actually outside the gate to hell

[Anonymous No.14900174]

>>14899026
Look at that pseudointellectual truing to come off as insightful with his pseudoscientific racism.
>This is reckless... In the case of Europeans with our recessive alleles, we are in the span of decades endagering a dviersity that took thousands of years to evolve.
Notice the empty all style no substance alarmism, nonwhites coming in is bad because more diversity is actually less diversity.

[Anonymous No.14900180]

>>14899859
I don't know friend... Quite honestly I'm an odd duck.

In general though I'd recommend going to conferences/events (AmRen, Patriotic Alternative, Scandza, etc.) if feasible for you. Way of the World was doing his 'natconnect' email regional matching project, maybe that's still running.

[Anonymous No.14900210]

>>14892353
I cantstand the way people misquote hostprical figures. Did Dante say the Darkest or the Hottest place in hell will be reserved for those.......

Pic 1 of 2

[Anonymous No.14900212]

>>14900210

[Anonymous No.14900234]

>>14900180
I mean I know a lot of people with similar views on Twitter but you're very articulate about them. salo forum is a good resource too if you're interested.

[Anonymous No.14900383]

>>14892353
You shouldn't. Fascism is autocracy for plebs.

[Anonymous No.14900423]

>>14894670
>>14896151
>t. shitskins

[Anonymous No.14901079]

>>14899543
>What exactly did it do to antagonize your people?
Declared war on us.
Sent people like me and my friends to holocaust camps.
Burned some of my favorite books, suppressed other favorite music.

[Anonymous No.14901178]

>>14901079

Anon I purposely didn’t reply to him and you shouldn’t either. Don’t engage with people who are at very low levels of consciousness on these issues, it’s useless.

[Anonymous No.14901193]

>>14901079
You’ll have to be more clear because the person I was responding to said they were a black nationalist and I don’t recall any fascist regime declaring war on blacks. As for your other comments, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Nazi and Fascist are not the same thing.

Can you name those books?

[Anonymous No.14901216]

>>14900174
>nonwhites coming in is bad because more diversity is actually less diversity.
Yeah, turning the entire planet into a single monolithic mixed race people with the same culture sounds incredibly diverse and interesting, dumbass.
not that guy btw

[Anonymous No.14901225]

>>14900423
based

[Anonymous No.14901227]

>>14901079
>Declared war on us.
When? Who did that?
>Sent people like me and my friends to holocaust camps.
I thought you where black, are you also a jew?
>Burned some of my favorite books
Like what?
>suppressed other favorite music.
Like what?

I'm sure you can answer all of these.

[Anonymous No.14901249]

>>14901227

>>14901079

Isn’t me. I’m >>14901178

I’ve resigned from engaging “bad faith” arguments as a self-preservation, and your questions imply the attitude. If you’re interested in learning about the black radical position read Blood in My Eye by George Jackson, the over representation of Man by Sylvia Wynter, and the Wretched of the Earth by Frantz Fanon. These works are critical points of Africana theory and black socialism. I’d love to give you benefit of the doubt anon, but too often do these discourses end in me articulating basic to critical information only to be called a “nigger” and turned away from in the end.

[Anonymous No.14901332]

>>14892488
14...88 based post anon, lots of libtard butthurt, shareblue posters on this forum tonight,

[Anonymous No.14901337]

>>14892353
Hey anon you seem to be lost, THIS IS /LIT/TERALLY not the place for shit posting.
Please post book or fuck off.

[Anonymous No.14901340]

>>14901249
What do you think about the book That Nonviolent Stuff’ll Get You Killed by Charles E. Cobb Jr.

[Anonymous No.14901353]

its for fags

extrapolate? no thank you

[Anonymous No.14901375]

>>14901340

Haven’t read it, but I’m certainly pro violent revolution, as is any radical, that’s a given. The issue arises when we confront all the white LARPers who got into leftism via philosophy class instead of grating life experiences. They’re more interested in drooling over Russia and discussing Zizek then considering a scientific approach to our actual conditions. Not that I was always far from that myself, reading George Jackson was crucial for me because I learned to recognize the bloodiness of the real fight and the necessity that I normalize my body as a tool in it. Most so-called revolutionaries are VERY pussy and I’m no warrior myself but we need to start addressing the violence issue with more realistic language.

[Anonymous No.14901452]

>>14901375
I dont know a single communist who didnt have a deep hate of his father and a deep love of his mother. Face it, marxism is for girls and fags.

[Anonymous No.14901633]

>>14901375
That’s one of my favorite books. I wrote a thesis with it. Some of us are probably better informed than you think. I’m >>14899543 by the way. I wish you would address this.

[Anonymous No.14901641]

>>14892353
>>14892488
>It triggers the Establishment, which is always fun... ;-)
it's basic contrarian bullshit, like 50% of the content on this site (the rest is porn)

[Anonymous No.14901671]

>>14901193
>Nazi and Fascist are not the same thing
Fascism isn't inherently pro-german, no, but they took it to its logical conclusion. There's no peaceful, benevolent, happy fascists.
>Can you name those books?
Hemingway's work.

[Anonymous No.14901732]

>>14895908
Truth.

On ethonocentrism:
https://egtheory.wordpress.com/2013/06/30/how-ethnocentrics-rule/

[Anonymous No.14901788]

>>14901633

Ok, I’ll take your word then.

>how has fascism antagonized black people

Black radicals necessarily diverge from textbook fascism like Mussolini and expand its definition into much of the US’ affairs. We view it largely as the hegemony, supremacy, and other bastions of Eurocentric ideals as they’ve been starkly imposed on black Americans and others. Examples range from the misinformation regarding African history that existed well throughout 20th century textbooks, the blatant racist and classist policies which permeated most of American history, the co-option of revolutionaries into tenants of reformism, such as the State’s manipulation of MLK, the blatant racism of police brutality, the importation of crack into black hoods in the 80s, the burning of black Wall Street, the corruption of the Democratic Party and its relationship with black people, the list goes on and it’s quite extensive. The US will morph into any illusion it needs to uphold imperialism, capitalism, and other systems antagonistic of black and brown people, it thrives on trickery and finger pointing claiming that everyone else is the big bad tyrant and ignores the evils on our soil. It’s the insidious spirit of fascism in its hegemonic and supremacist tendencies that we are noting, not the romance for harmony and tradition that people like yourself appear to cling.

>whites need to work out their issues with supremacy

Everyone is a victim of white supremacy, every single person who has had any contact with its ideals. The manifestation of its illness differs from person to person but it is a clear warp of reality that needs to be admitted and undone as thoroughly as possible in order to cleanse the psyche of delusion. It perverts the perspective of whites against themselves and others, it perverts the black perspective, it perverts all and no one is exempt from its tendrils. To even consider as much is to have lost the fight. If you’re interested in HOW it looks then read the Sylvia Wynter essay or if you want something easier read “Anarkata, A Statement” which is a sort of manifesto of the current black anarchist movement. It touches on this at length.

>what is the fantasy

The LARPs you constantly see on this board of nazis, supremacists, literary chauvinists, what have you. The personas and ideals procured by those who treat European culture with an uncritical lens are what I’m referring to. Who dream of black and brown death and white excellence, who dream of a utopian return to tradition, or at least, who dream that the bitterness shown from their own comrades against black and brown people is natural and should be unchecked. If you partake of the western canon and absorb it without critique then you are engaging in this fantasy. And there are other forms of doing so too.

>I’ll leave this to someone else

Your revolutionary ideology will not succeed if you are unaware as to how to nourish and enrich the soul.

[Anonymous No.14901842]

>>14901788
I agree with almost every word you said in your first paragraph but where you completely lose me is your shifting the blame onto fascism, which by the way, I am not a fascist though I can sympathize with fascists. It seems to me that you’re issues are with Americanism and white people at large far more than Fascism. America is simply not a fascist country and it never was.

I won’t even touch the rest of your comment because while I agree that broad stroke white identity/supremacy as well as biological racism is delusional and ignorant, it’s clear to me that there’s no common ground whatsoever for us to engage on.

[Anonymous No.14901900]

Beacuse it´s better than being a commie, although extremist ideologies should only be applied in critical situations

[Anonymous No.14901941]

>>14893239
>extreme social Darwinism
That's nazism, not original fascism. Nazis were the ones who tried to be "scientific and modern".
Fascism is allied with religion and it's rather about spirit of nation than some genes and purity. Look at Italy and Spain.

[Anonymous No.14901960]

>>14894670
>YAAS KWEEN SSLAY. So. Diverse. And progressive. woah muh politically correct victim lifestyle is subversive and edgy despite being aggresively promoted by all major corporations. so vulnerable and marginalised! so inclusive and tolerant! elite driven normalisation of pedophilial!you are much a better person than me because you get fucked in the ass! le purpose engineered biopolitical clientele for the globalist managerial state! disneyfied safespace consumer narcissist monoculture! You must be such a responsible consumer and and enlightened global citizen!

anyone else unironically HATE these freaks?

[Anonymous No.14901973]

>>14896151
I was a marxist until I had contact with actual leftists in college, they are all narcissistic illiterate professional victims who care more about enforcing conformity, they are not a threat to the system at all but its foremost enforcers, they are all mentally ill cattle bent on dragging everyone who displays a shred of self reliance down to their level. I tried talking about Marx with the queers but they haven't read marx, they are more concerned with narcissistic injury, streaming the latest diverse and progressive representation on netflix and relishing their own victimhood. I realised the only hope for a life worth living laid by neccesity in a direct confrontation with the current state ideology that dominates universities media and corporate HR departments everywhere the political correctness identity victimocracy. In this day and age merely to refuse to apologise for being white and straight amounts to a revolutionary act.

[Anonymous No.14901997]

>>14901671
I don't see why there couldn't be. The core of fascism is defined by its opposition to liberalism, it's corporatism (anti-marxist but anti hyper-capitalist as well), it's social values and concern for the general quality of the population. Is there any particular reason why a modern fascist state would need to be a war-monger (beyond the conflict of initial revolution)? What exactly do you think is the 'logical conclusion' of fascism?

Of course, there's no fair consideration here. Any inkling of genuine illiberalism and/or valuation of ethnos (particularly on the part of whites) predictably evokes the morally smug responses of people programmed to think and feel within the tight confines of an approved historical narrative.

[Anonymous No.14902024]

>>14901788
>>14899507

I believe identity politics minorities are out of touch with their own culture, instead most of what I hear from them seems to be generic post 1960s therapeutic managerial state discourse. An actual revival of african, muslim, or latinamerican catholic culture would contradict with regime imperatives of consumerism, 'individualism' and therapeutic management as much as european traditionalism does. You are essentially client groups for the liberal establishment. I fundamentally oppose these ideas because idon't believe they lead to true freedom but to a cattle like existence, it suffices to have any contact with politically correct leftists of any race, these people complain ceaselessly about being mentally ill, are notoriously lacking in solidarity and distrustful even to each other, the 'art' they manage to create amounts to nothing more than narcissistic gloating in their own unique 'trauma'. I think these people are fundamentally marked by a deep sense of humilliation and their only political goal is to force everyone else to share in their dependence and sad passions. Obviously, they don't pose a revolutionary alternative to the system, so the only thing they can hope for is to guilt more functional people into crippling themselves by surrendering their capacity for self fashioning and autonomy.

[Anonymous No.14902080]

>>14901842

What are your sympathies with fascism?

[Anonymous No.14902135]

>>14902024
>>14901788
See how for example, the leftist is actively threatened by anyone finding any worth or meaning in literature, philosophy or the western tradition outside of politically correct 'critical' schemas which have been the mainstream in universities since the 60s. And yet these same people are enthusiastic about popular culture and persist in the naive belief their consumer products can redeem them. Despite their superficially rebellious exterior these people are dupes and they are weak.

[Anonymous No.14902149]

How do we remove the regime and its system that we live under? Leftism is clearly entirely compromised by finance capitalism but is the far right the answer? I see a lot of clearly anti-capitalist strains with them but do they even have a future?

[Anonymous No.14902211]

A good sandwich nourishes and satisfies me a hundred times more effectively than the thought of my oh-so-important whiteness.

You’re dorks, complete dweeboids.

[Anonymous No.14902215]

>>14902149
any positive attempt at building a culture of self reliance capable of standing up to established media, conumerism, financial and technological power WILL be tarred as 'fascist' and 'far right' by politically correct leftists.

[Anonymous No.14902220]

>>14902211
Cringe

[Anonymous No.14902223]

>>14902211
What did he mean by this?

[Anonymous No.14902275]

>>14902080
I admire the idealist basis and the conception of state as actualized absolute and sovereign. The aim of the fascist state was to synthesize the individual and the state and in doing so, awaken in them a new sense of freedom which stands in opposition liberalistic notions of freedom, which to me seem to be no different than freedom to consume. Fascism had a strong emphasis on the unification of one people and culture, not differentiated by biological race, bound together by a state which actualizes the ideal of the people. The fascist conception of the state is almost, if not wholly, spiritual and healthy while it placed a strong emphasis on a strong military. All of these are positive aspects which stand in stark opposition to our state which rather atomizes individuals and favors instead to transform them into units of economic production while leaving them to their own devices or hedonistic notions of liberty.

[Anonymous No.14902395]

>>14902211
leftists resort to middle school insults, reflecting their general infantilised still reading harry potter YA at 30 disposition, the advantage of being on the right is you can answer with things that actually hit like straight up calling them niggers and faggots up to their face.

[Anonymous No.14903051]

The thing about fascism is it hardly has to make a case for its ideology anymore. What we have now is a bizarre form of capitalist run society that nobody wanted besides maybe corporate executives and blue haired trannies. Even then the executives seem pretty anxious and the trannies awfully out for revolution. Since, the second world war ended, we haven’t had a society in the West that actually appreciates the health of its people and culture. It’s more of a downward spiral that people can feel before they can rationalize at this point.

[Anonymous No.14903318]

>>14901216
Imagine thinking nonwhite immigration from Europe will destroy all races and cultures. This what /pol/ does on the brain.

[Anonymous No.14903326]

>>14901216
Imagine thinking nonwhite immigration to Europe will destroy all races and cultures. This what /pol/ does on the brain.

[Anonymous No.14903434]

>>14898314
To further emphasize how close to impossible America to be a fascist is that I've noticed a lot of black nationalist shares this view - they all told me that they want to leave but couldn't as they don't know which region they came from. Africa has a lot of different groups of blacks, they don't know where to fit in as they mainly identify. Moreover, African blacks despised American Blacks due to what they see in the medium of rap - they see them as too liberalized.

So even if we ship out the blacks and browns we have right now, they probably don't want to leave as they have identified with the 'American' culture.

Due to colonialisation, slavery and the mass immigration in its infancy - it is inevitable that it will be a melting pot of cultures. And that's its spirit, it's diversity. So being a fascist in a country with a spirit of liberalisation and revolution and multiculturalism is impossible.

[Anonymous No.14903439]

>>14892488

>this is what reddit believes

[Anonymous No.14903443]

>>14898314
Sorry for my typo - *they mainly identify with the American culture*

So to OP be a lib right instead in America or move to Europe.

[Anonymous No.14903447]

>>14903326
Yeah, look at all that rich culture and intellectual tradition in the middle east. Who wouldn't want to be like them?

[Anonymous No.14903470]

>>14903326
In his defence, I've heard many liberals parrot the notion of a mongrelized humanity as being the only real cure for Racism™ (like that Anthony Bourdain clip).

Realistically, that's a strawman. Mass immigration won't destroy "all races", but mixing will result in the disproportionate loss of European genetic material (recessive alleles) at an accelerating rate. Even in the absence of mixing, a perpetual stream of immigration from non-white countries (+chain migration +more fecundity +ethnocentric social strategies on their part) means that the existing diversity of Europeans will inevitably be 'crowded out' in competition for resources if we allow this trend to continue. If you don't acknowledge the threat mass non-white immigration represents to the European genetic cluster, then you're either a misinformed fool or a dissembling enemy.

[Anonymous No.14903540]

>>14903434
A melting pot of -European- peoples. Mass immigration didn't significantly shift towards non-whites until the 1960's, and even today I don't see much so much 'melting' of blacks and whites as I do balkanization.

The original American spirit of resourceful and responsible liberalism has been perverted largely beyond recogition, and few bastions of it that remain are under assault by the neoliberals themselves.

You're propagandizing for a revisionist neoliberal myth of America.

[Anonymous No.14903626]

>>14903540
Why is it a worry for diversification when browns and blacks are involved? But not with a diverse group of whites and white cultures? Like white is a diverse term that include British White to Jews.

[Anonymous No.14903775]

>>14903540
You’re missing the point in my opinion and this is a mistake a lot of my fellow right wingers make. American neoliberalism and multiculturalism was always the inevitable end of the American experiment. It was and is a nation of workers who held liberalistic notions of life alongside a revolutionary spirit and who took to materialistic conceptions of the state. They built their new nation on the backbone of scientific and legal positivism with the kind of universalistic morality that only a post-Christian society could provide. There’s no idealist tradition for Americans to restore. Democracy inevitably opens itself up to the masses and reduced the politic of the state to the lowest common denominator. Even fascism, which is a modernist conception, is too traditional for the American framework. It would require a complete and utter dismantling of the entirety of American history down to its very foundations. Even American language makes the ideological prerequisites almost unrealizable.

[Anonymous No.14903959]

>>14903626
Please read the thread. I've mentioned recessivity, relative genetic closeness, differences in social strategies and so on. The diversity within a genetic cluster and outside it are not equivalent, and in the case of whites our diversity is vulnerable to non-white 'browning'.

In terms of societal cohesion only, it is obvious that diverse groups of whites who are relatively more related to eachother integrate in a more seamless and complimentary fashion than with non-whites.

Some 'browns' are very caucasoidal, and so reasonably compatible with us, but they still carry dominant genes and are not a part of the European genetic cluster (and are typically more fecund).

Ashkenazi Jews (the whitest jews) are only at the periphery of European genetic cluster. I don't consider them white, and they don't either except when it suits their interests. They are a special case... In some ways they are very compatibile with whites, but they've also proven to be highly subversive elements in white nations.

tl;dr there isn't just one 'diversity', there are groupings of diversity (clusters) which are often inimical to eachother.

[Anonymous No.14904152]

>>14903775
Oh, I don't think we're turning this ship around (see thread)... Maybe some parts of Europe will, but not NA. That doesn't mean there won't be opportunities for 'awakened' contingents of whites to reinvent themselves on the smaller scale they will ultimately be relegated to. The original spirit of America is already gone, who knows what new spirits may become possible in the roil of neoliberal decay?

As for idealism, while I very much appreciate the romanticism that usually goes along with it, I'm more scientifically minded and I think that scientific emphasis is a very natural bias for Europeans. While I agree that our decrease in religiosity/spirituality poses problems for us, I think this is a challenge that must be met with secular philosophy. I'm very skeptical about the possibility of 'winding back the clock' or instantiating some new binding spiritual framework.

The inevitabilities of the past can't certainly predict the future; although it is wise to temper our expectations, one must ultimately stop second-guessing and strive for what they think is best.

[Anonymous No.14905330]

>>14903470
>if you don't acknowledge the threat mass non-white immigration represents to the European genetic cluster
You haven't demonstrated any tangible threat, all you have done so far is bore us with your vague alarmist language. If you had an actual point to make you wouldn't waste our time like that.

[Anonymous No.14905462]

>>14905330
I have demonstrated it (you can also go look at the official demographic projections and policy statements of neoliberal western governments themselves). Your glib dismissal is just that, and entertaining fools like you is not a priority.

[Anonymous No.14905679]

>>14905462
You didn't demonstrate shit dickbag

[Anonymous No.14906207]

Why is it assumed that racism requires fascism?

[Anonymous No.14906338]

>>14900210
True, but it should also be noted that neutrality is sometimes a great moral choice on its own, and can be more courageous than siding with one party or another that you don't agree with.

[Anonymous No.14906486]

>>14901997
>why a modern fascist state would need to be a war-monger
Because of liberalism among the dominant corporate powers in the west, and the "cultural bolshevism" that spreads through it.
>What exactly do you think is the 'logical conclusion' of fascism?
Implosion via a war it cannot win, or too long a peacetime.
A fascist state cannot emerge in peace and prosperity, and cannot maintain power in peace and prosperity. The catalyst is victimization, the impetuous is vengeance.

> (particularly on the part of whites) predictably evokes the morally smug responses of people programmed to think and feel within the tight confines of an approved historical narrative.
*tips fedora*
There's some grade A 'artistic interpretation" of history as a Fascist state wants to larp.

[Anonymous No.14906504]

>>14906486
*impetus

[Anonymous No.14906510]

>>14904152
This is my very point though. What you’re describing is not fascism. It’s just scientific racism and white identity. I found what most Americans mean when they refer to fascism is just that. The American conception of politics seems unable to move beyond that. Further, what Americans ignore is that this “awakening” while possible won’t mean anything because you exist within the framework that ultimately gives way to neoliberal modernity. Americans can’t keep their notions of freedom and democracy and not end up with social justice warriors no matter how much a segment of the population hates them. These segments, by the way, are still all too happy to lean into the consumerist and materialist lifestyle.

[Anonymous No.14906513]

>>14906207
Because words no longer mean what they mean for Americans and this so-called fascism is really just a reaction of multicultural immigration seen since the 1950s. It’s not actually fascistic at all.

[Anonymous No.14906519]

>>14906513
>fascism is really just a reaction of multicultural immigration
So racism with reactionary values.
That's fascism, socially.

[Anonymous No.14906618]

>>14906519
>So racism
Yes.
>with reactionary values.
No.

[Anonymous No.14906634]

>>14892488

[Anonymous No.14906670]

>>14906618
>no
>opposition to liberal multiculturalism
>immigration totally not "foreign invaders"
Reactionary.

[Anonymous No.14906676]

>>14906670
Is a white liberal family moving to a whiter neighborhood "reactionary"?
Have you considered not using meme buzzwords?

[Anonymous No.14906689]

>>14906676
>Is a white liberal family moving to a whiter neighborhood "reactionary"?
Probably not.
>not using meme buzzwords?
Obfuscation.

[Anonymous No.14907604]

>>14906207
Does ethnocentrism require fascism? No, but the point of fascism is to subordinate liberalism and capitalism under higher values — such as ethnos — and I'm relatively certain it takes an authoritarian hand to keep those monsters tamed.

>>14906486
So, would the fascists be the war-mongers or the neoliberals? You haven't really shared any logic here, you've just made the usual tired assertions trotted out to demonize illiberalism (yes, particularly on the part of whites).

>>14906510
See above... The point of fascism is to enshrine higher values instead of just indulgence and growth for its own sake. It's true that those values could be other than ethnos, but I explained why I think ethnos is the most critical, and so it seems to me that fascism and ethnocentrism are a natural union.

I think that neoliberal modernity is going to have trouble sustaining itself (the growth-at-all-costs model creates bubbles and other latent problems). I could be wrong, perhaps the oligarchs will always be able to float just enough slack so that people have just enough feel-good products to not revolt, but I think it will crack... When it does, an opportunity for meaningful regional schisms (wherein laws are fundamentally different) will arise. I do agree that hyper-consumerism is a potentially insurmountable siren song, but the OP's question was what makes fascism desireable, not what are the chances of implmenting it in North America.

>>14906513
Reaction to the mass immigration of divergent peoples is a perfectly valid fascist priority. It is true though that in the typical pejorative mode people use the term now, it has become meaningless.

[Anonymous No.14907717]

>>14907604
This guy gets it.

[Anonymous No.14907981]

>>14907604
>but the point of fascism is to subordinate liberalism and capitalism under higher values
You can easily say that the point of liberalism is to subordinate fascism and capitalism under higher values.
>The point of fascism is to enshrine higher values instead of just indulgence and growth for its own sake
Then it indulges itself. The mere act of enacting any kind of power is indulgence.
>I think ethnos is the most critical
The most fragile too. Ethnos changes over mere generations. At the very best, whatvere you build now and it succeds for maybe one or two generations, it will still require to destroy and rebuilt itsefl again in the future. Emphasis on destroy. Meanwhile any, literally any other system that's capable of adaptions can do better.
>I think that neoliberal modernity is going to have trouble sustaining itself
So does fascism since it's a dead system for the long dead Roman empire that barely worked it its own time, being built mostly out of dire necessity to stifle inner conflict, which it still failed to do.

Face it anon. You're just a pussy edgelords who think he can bark, but has about 0 biting power.

[Anonymous No.14908337]

>>14907981
No you can't. You could reasonably argue that nascent liberalism has a goal of emancipating people from traditional hierarchies (without much concern for the long-term consequences of doing so), but liberalism and capitalism quickly become reciprocating heads of the same neoliberal hydra — the only goal of which is to maximize individualistic indulgence (anaesthesia/atomization for the masses, profit/power for the oligarchs).

Fascism strives more than it indulges. Indulgence implies a whimsical consumption with little or no concern for context, values or consequences; this is what characterizes mid/late liberalism, not fascism (fascism is a reaction to this). You're really just babbling here, making a juvenille attempt to invert my words because your own arguments are so hopelessly poor.

Yes, phenotypes change... And yet we can discern distinct peoples that have existed in relatively stable forms for thousands of years, forming the essence of nations even as various organizational paradigms came and went. There is no nuance or empirical rigour to your thinking.

Fascism has produced impressive results in the few instances we can refer to. Sparta is a better example than Rome, and they did quite well for an average sized Greek city-state. Their ultimate mistake (as was Rome's) was allowing slaves to become a significant proportion of their population... I very much doubt that a modern fascist state would repeat that mistake.

If I may ask, what is the reason for your obvious contempt and what alternative would you propose (or do you think things are hunky-dory)?

[Anonymous No.14908496]

>>14908337
>You could reasonably argue that nascent liberalism has a goal of emancipating people from traditional hierarchies
>liberalism and capitalism quickly become reciprocating heads of the same neoliberal hydra
That's just semantic, ideological bullshit. Play of words. What you really really really want to say is there are problems and we should try and fic them, but what you're actually saying I have the best way to fix most if not all problems, but we'll need to destroy the current order. See, the problem is, your ethnobullshit has failed over and over again, it's like communism, but even more retarded.
>Fascism strives more than it indulges. Indulgence implies a whimsical consumption with little or no concern for context, values or consequences; this is what characterizes mid/late liberalism, not fascism (fascism is a reaction to this).
Nice sale's picth, but like I said before. Power is indulgence. And every motherfucker who claimed power out of benevolence turned out to be the most tryhard tyrants and fascism only empowers them.
>Fascism has produced impressive results in the few instances we can refer to
It did not.
>Sparta is a better example than Rome, and they did quite well for an average sized Greek city-state
lol
Spartans were homosexuals macho fags who got assbeat by Athens and the only thing they left behind was some kind of bullshit romanticized envelopment for something that's not real. Not to mention they were savage nigger tier Greeks with their city in a safer location than most others.
>their ultimate mistake (as was Rome's) was allowing slaves to become a significant proportion of their population
So you're pro slavery too? Wow.
>I very much doubt that a modern fascist state would repeat that mistake
A slave commune mentality? No, of course not. How could it?
>If I may ask, what is the reason for your obvious contempt and what alternative would you propose (or do you think things are hunky-dory)?
Fascism is a meaningless ideology. It's just communism from Antiquity. What's my alternatives? Nothing. We already have centrist in between the left and right and we need to work on separate issues separately without fucking up the core of civilization again because some bitch edgelords read mein kamf once and now they think they're an ubbermench or some shit.
Let me tell you something, boy. Things were never hunky-dory and possibly they never will. But every nigger who says he can do better than all of humanity in the literally best age in our history, that nigger is full of shit who is out to destroy and pillage for his own individual good at the cost of the many he will abuse, claiming to protect them.
>You're really just babbling here, making a juvenille attempt to invert my words because your own arguments are so hopelessly poor.
You're really just babbling here, making a juvenille attempt to invert my words because your own arguments are so hopelessly poor.
See what I did there?

[Anonymous No.14909339]

>>14908496
I see. So you're just a generally hostile caricature of an anti-ethnocentrist (probably only anti-white though, if honest) — scatterbrained and uncritical in your thinking.

I'm proposing responsible, sober measures for the good of my people (and any people wise enough to see their worth). You are resorting to vulgar ranting, putting words in my mouth, and one-dimensional arguments, yet somehow I'm the edgelord? Why? Because you throw in the odd 'enlightened liberal' platitude? Your hackneyed moralizing sounds like it's straight out of hollywood movie.

Ah well. You write like a moron and aren't capable of constructing a nuanced thought, so there's no reason to take you seriously.

[Anonymous No.14909870]

>>14903540
>A melting pot of -European- peoples.
Not only that, but for most of America's history, it was overwhelmingly dominated by this hegemonic WASP culture which set the standard for what all the smaller sub-cultures were expected to integrate into. Since the passing of the Hart-Celler act and the general secularization of American society, that unifying cultural ethos has been completely hollowed out, and I don't think it's an exaggeration to describe the America of today as a truly multicultural nation.

[Anonymous No.14909975]

>>14907604
Putting aside for a moment that fascism is based on higher principles, where we really diverge is the notion that scientific racism can so constitute this higher principle. This emphasis on the ethnos is just as materialistic as the disgusting bugmen who worship diversity but in reverse. I won’t make the argument that biological race doesn’t matter because of course it does but a West which believes that this constitutes higher principles stands no chance at all.

[Anonymous No.14910040]

>>14907981
>Ethnos changes over mere generations
These changes never happen rapidly enough to be made apparent to anyone, a sense of continuity and shared ancestry can be easily preserved unless you are displacing the native demography through large scale migration. In its organic state, it's the most stable platform for socio-political organization we have available, and ethno-religious forms of organization have been the standard mode of human organization for most of history.

What are you even comparing it to?

[Anonymous No.14910312]

>>14909975
Well, I would say that a West that doesn't recognize that European peoples are the very essence of what it is won't be the West much longer, and no spiritual belief will change that.

What you call scientific racism, I just call science... Science tells us that humans are comprised of significantly divergent populations. Ethnocentrism is not about contempt for genetic out-groups, it's about prioritizing natural and healthy in-group preference/empathy. Would you call Mexicans 'scientific racists' because they protect their ethnic demography in their constitution? The Chinese? Anyhow... Whatever your personal feelings are about ethnocentrism, it is the demonstrably winning strategy. Any people that refuses to engage in it is putting themselves at existential risk (especially if their home is an appealing destination for out-groups).

I don't see why realists and idealist need to be at eachother's throats when it comes to the health of our people. We can put the philosophical sparring aside and recognize that we both have important roles to play. The only problem would be if you genuinely think that idealist/spiritual beliefs can obviate race, and/or that I'm a bugman devoid of redeeming qualities just because I don't believe in an immaterial soul.

[Anonymous No.14911110]

>>14902211
to be honest it doesn't take too much to satisfies you brainlet

[Anonymous No.14911230]

>>14910040
It's not just the ethnos. You speak of genetics, but ignore culture, which progresses far faster.
Your terms are too broadly defined, as with all fascists, it's just word play for more and more bullshit.

[Anonymous No.14911340]

>>14907604
>So, would the fascists be the war-mongers
Yes, since this is the era where all ideologies can spread much easier. Free speech was already seen as an open wound in Italy and Germany, so with the advent of the internet the mere existence of liberal states is all the more threatening to you.

[Anonymous No.14911352]

>>14909339
>probably only anti-white though
Stop forcing your anti sjw script. Japan is very similar in it's desire to protect "ethnic homogeneity", and every last dipshit genetic warrior here, japanese or otherwise, would be miserable living there.

[Anonymous No.14911380]

I'm a fascist who knows the relevant literature. AMA

[Anonymous No.14911422]

>>14911340
>the advent of the internet the mere existence of liberal states is all the more threatening to you
Imagine being that much of a pussy to not be able to fight back against a bunch of faggots from taking power that you need a failed antique of a political ideology that only larpers and skin head retards buy into.

[Anonymous No.14911622]

>>14911422
Yes, two guys kissing on tv is too much for them, let alone of they were different colors.

[Anonymous No.14911634]

>>14892353
Fascism is just conservative socialism watered down with traditionalism. It's a modernist attempt to overcome the inherently anti-traditional forces of modern capitalism without sacrificing the modernising power of capitalism. In this way fascism is an alternative to liberalism which (in its gradualist and accelerationist or progressive guises) is basically all about the free rein of capital over all humanity (and therefore tradition). Fascism is not a well-thought out criticism of capitalism tho. It is basically a half-assed defence against it drawing on powerful, local metaphors rather than a unifying philosophical system like Marxism.

[Anonymous No.14911645]

>>14892689
This is a good self-aware example of a fascist ideologue right here. I'm not a fascist at all but this guy clearly understands the relationship of fascism to capitalism and liberalism far better than most American racists, authoritarian liberals (I don't think of fascism as this strictu sensu desu as another anon commented), libertarians, or others who get grouped or maligned incorrectly as 'fascists.'

[Anonymous No.14911654]

>>14901973
If SJWs were enough to put you off Marxism, because they tried to lay claim to its mantle, then you were never much of a Marxist mate.

Every serious Marxist today knows that SJWs are just liberal and psuedo-radical imposters taking up breathing space on the actual socialist left, and that they need to be completely destroyed before we can go forward and change the lives of working people again.

[Anonymous No.14911670]

>>14892353
Nothing, unless you like ugly architecture and tyranny.

[Anonymous No.14911748]

>>14911622
Hilarious parts is, as many natsoc larpers that I know, most of them are closet faggots and porn addicts. That and also mentally unstable.

[Anonymous No.14911797]

>>14910312
I don’t intend to come at your throat. I’m just laying out my position regarding American specifically. I can completely agree that there’s a degree to which value must be placed at an ethnocentric level. My argument is that if we can’t go further that, and it seems most Americans can’t or won’t, then there’s no hope whatsoever. I suppose my contention is that a path forward predicated on science doesn’t constitute a path forward at all, at least not in any true right wing sense.

[Anonymous No.14911809]

>>14911654
Maybe not completely destroyed, because most SJWs are victims of the neoliberal establishment's red herrings against class consciousness just as much as the working class are to capitalists in the traditional dichotomy. It should be more our duty to make them understand the bigger importance of revolutionary change in the economic base over the social superstructure that they tend to focus 100% of their attention to.

[Anonymous No.14911871]

>>14892488
based

Fascism is just self-interest.

[Anonymous No.14912145]

>>14893239
Imagine being a Foucaultist. There’s more to life than power structures, faggot.

[Anonymous No.14912158]

>>14899232
>people on my side are fueled by love
>people not on my side are fueled by hate
Said every side that’s ever existed, nigger.

[Anonymous No.14912307]

>>14909339
Absolutely based, I love you anon, it's so satisfying seeing smug pseudo intellectual faggots like this one get BTFO resort to 'wew your so stupid look at how nonchalant and flippant and underhanded and subtle and casual and stoic i am *insert strawman* *insert false equivalency* *insert poetic platitude based on feelies* *insert ad-hominem*.

Generally when they debate here, they get called niggerfaggots (like they fucking are), so they rationalize that as further proof that they are right and their worldview correct, since in their impression we're all just a bunch of stupid redneck nazis. Not taking into consideration the fact that maybe they are wrong not even for one moment

[Anonymous No.14912424]

>>14911230
So, if both ethnos and ethos ("culture") are inherently unstable identities under which a society may be organized, I have to ask again: what are you comparing them to?

[Anonymous No.14912451]

>>14911352
Are you implying that Japan is a miserable place to live?

[Anonymous No.14912855]

>>14911654
The divide between the SJW and the marxist isn't one of principle or significant ideological substance, it's simply a disagreement on tactics, optics, and priorities. There is not a marxist that I've ever met who wasn't radically in favor of every socially liberal reform that has taken place over the last century.

[Anonymous No.14913532]

>>14911340
Well, at least you've made a plausible counter argument there instead of stooping to platitudes and juvenille taunting (which appears to be the norm for the 'opposed' in this thread).

I would point out that the context is very different now... Neoliberal states are in decline and have revealed the other edge of their sword. I don't believe liberal states would hold the same allure, especially as the fascist state proves its worth, and as liberal states become less and less white in their demographies. Remember we're not talking about communism here, fascists are essentially liberal and capitalist, they just subordinate those engines to higher values.

You may be right though that ubiquity of communication is more potentially threatening to a fascist state, where a more cohesive and unified vision is the goal (although it's proving somewhat troublesome for neoliberals as well, and we can see them really cracking down). It's something to consider, but I'm not convinced that the fascists would need to resort to war. I think it's rather more likely that the neoliberals would be aggressors with sanctions and the like; desperate to flaunt their hypocritical righteousness and prevent any success.

>>14911634
Reasonable criticism... The problem being that capitalism works. We know that capitalism, liberalism and technology are Pandora's box, but it's also the case that they provide a nation with major advantages over any that would aggressively abstain from them. So what you call a half-assed defence, I call the only sensible path: A cautious inhibition — not demolition — of those engines, at least until technology makes a new organizational epoch possible (which is not something we can just smugly assume is going to happen in a few decades).

>>14911797
Fair enough. It's true that feelings steamroll facts when it comes to galvanizing people, so I'll concede that you're right about science not providing a path forward. Ethnocentrism does appeal heavily to feelings though; it's intuitive and instinctual.

>>14912307
Thanks anon. I doubt people like that will reflect self-critically either way, but hopefully such exchanges are instructive for other anons.

>>14912855
Yes, I've observed this as well. I've never encountered an 'OG Marxist' (non-multiracialist, opposed to social deviance/liberalism, etc).

[Anonymous No.14913662]

>>14912424
They're unstable for a political ideology that bases itself on it.
Natsoc fags sperg that it worked for the Romans. No shit it did. There was nothing better at the time and it was a whole different time altogether.
Now you have other things that make ethnos almost arbitrary. You have education levels, cultural barriers among similar ethnos themselves, but the primary thing is economic. If you can figure out economics, you're set. And that makes fascism totally redundant and make it into low tier socialism.
And ethos is near too wide raging to even be a thing for a foundational ideology.

[Anonymous No.14914394]

>>14913662
So you're using the multi-cultural/multi-ethnic liberal societies of the passed 50 years as the standard for what would constitute a politically stable and socially cohesive society, as opposed to the ethno-cultural/homogenous societies of the past?

[Anonymous No.14914691]

>>14913662
Again, a critical mistake of the Romans and Spartans was that they didn't prioritize ethnos -enough-. The Spartans allowed themselves to become outnumbered by Helots, while Rome began granting citizenship to non-Romans and increasingly relied upon non-Roman soldiers (as their core populace grew decadent). They are prime cautionary examples of why ethnos is so important.

Education and wealth does not obviate ethnic differences. Significant average differences in IQ, voting habits, cultural preferences and frequency of consequential mutations (like the 2-repeat allele of the MAOA 'warrior' gene) remain. You don't know what you're talking about.