/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.14883796]

Why do you still believe in free will?

[Anonymous No.14883848]

>>14883796
a b s o l u t e l y ( n o t ) ?

[Anonymous No.14883863]

only brainlets think about free will

[Anonymous No.14883872]

iunno

[Anonymous No.14883887]

We are being manipulated by our higher selves so no.

[Anonymous No.14883956]

>>14883796
"Free will" is a misconception to begin with, reducing the subject of human freedom to the selection of items from a list (choice) according to some selection criterion.

Freedom is found in the mutability of our understanding and habits of choice, and this ability is found in our ability to question ourselves and our world: our freedom of inquiry. This isn't a contra-causal faculty, questions don't come from nowhere but are apprehended by the reception of novel sense-datum.

If you want to train a population to be free and capable of both moral and personal growth, the virtues that should be advocated are curiosity and inquisitiveness.

[Anonymous No.14884013]

>>14883848
BASED

[HLP !NOtRw2tMr2 No.14884019]

>>14883796
What is constricting the free will of the universe?

[Anonymous No.14884022]

>>14883796
I decided so.

[Anonymous No.14884023]

>>14883796
Suppose that you did have free will—what would you do with it? Some say that to have a will at all means that you aren’t free, and that may be true. So let’s just say that free will is being able to choose your own will. But from what possibilities will you choose from? Most likely, a will that can be achieved properly by a human. So you would choose some arbitrary will and then perfectly long for that goal, almost guaranteed to succeed. Now ask yourself, would you be that much different than those who achieve their wills without this libertarian free will? Would you not also be trying to achieve some sort of positive experience just as they are? And are they not able to do what they think is good, as you are? Unfortunately, they aren’t as free as you, because they still may make mistakes, and do what they know is an inferior decision, but still, at times, they might as well have free will. Science has shown that people who exercise their willpower will become disciplined over time, finding it easier to do what’s good for them.

In this world, discipline is freedom, and you can attain it.

[Anonymous No.14884024]

If “free will” means that God gives humans the opportunity to make choices that genuinely affect their destiny, then yes, human beings do have a free will. The world’s current sinful state is directly linked to choices made by Adam and Eve. God created mankind in His own image, and that included the ability to choose.

However, free will does not mean that mankind can do anything he pleases. Our choices are limited to what is in keeping with our nature. For example, a man may choose to walk across a bridge or not to walk across it; what he may not choose is to fly over the bridge—his nature prevents him from flying. In a similar way, a man cannot choose to make himself righteous—his (sin) nature prevents him from canceling his guilt (Romans 3:23). So, free will is limited by nature.

This limitation does not mitigate our accountability. The Bible is clear that we not only have the ability to choose, we also have the responsibility to choose wisely. In the Old Testament, God chose a nation (Israel), but individuals within that nation still bore an obligation to choose obedience to God. And individuals outside of Israel were able to choose to believe and follow God as well (e.g., Ruth and Rahab).

In the New Testament, sinners are commanded over and over to “repent” and “believe” (Matthew 3:2; 4:17; Acts 3:19; 1 John 3:23). Every call to repent is a call to choose. The command to believe assumes that the hearer can choose to obey the command.

Jesus identified the problem of some unbelievers when He told them, “You refuse to come to me to have life” (John 5:40). Clearly, they could have come if they wanted to; their problem was they chose not to. “A man reaps what he sows” (Galatians 6:7), and those who are outside of salvation are “without excuse” (Romans 1:20-21).

But how can man, limited by a sin nature, ever choose what is good? It is only through the grace and power of God that free will truly becomes “free” in the sense of being able to choose salvation (John 15:16). It is the Holy Spirit who works in and through a person’s will to regenerate that person (John 1:12-13) and give him/her a new nature “created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness” (Ephesians 4:24). Salvation is God’s work. At the same time, our motives, desires, and actions are voluntary, and we are rightly held responsible for them.

[HLP !NOtRw2tMr2 No.14884112]

>>14883796
Free will = free selection. We have created the concept "selection" to reflect a freedom to choose. This is just a result of preadaption that stuck after mutating due to it's increase in helping to compare different choices abstracted from experience, causing the people that have it to live and breed more. The "freedom" just reflects the number of choices we have abstracted in our brains, of which we will choose one.
The scientists say we don't have free will because they are looking at the physical, final choice, and the religious and "artistic" are saying we do have free will due to their predisposition to the imaginary choices their brains have created. Both are right, from my genius perspective.
And nothing constricts the free will of the universe, since all selection and all possibilities take place within the universe, it having the widest range of both freedom, and selection. And the discussion ends there.

[Anonymous No.14884133]

>>14884024
Also there is no logical reason to claim that if God knows what choices we are going to make that it means we are not free. It still means that the free choices we will make are free -- they are just known ahead of time by God. If we choose something different, then that choice will have been eternally known by God. Furthermore, this knowledge by God does not alter our nature in that it does not change what we are -- free to make choices. God's knowledge is necessarily complete and exhaustive because that is His nature, to know all things. In fact, since He has eternally known what all our free choices will be, He has ordained history to come to the conclusion that He wishes including and incorporating our choices into His divine plan: “For truly in this city there were gathered together against Thy holy servant Jesus, whom Thou didst anoint, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever Thy hand and Thy purpose predestined to occur," (Acts 4:27-28). Why? Because God always knows all things: "...God is greater than our heart, and knows all things," (1 John 3:20).

[Anonymous No.14884224]

>>14883796
life is just a playing movie then?

[Anonymous No.14884242]

>>14883796
I don't. But in practical life one should not dwell on this fact, since it decreases motivation. In other words, the mere knowledge itself that there is no free will could act as a cause to decrease your motivation to accomplish your goals. This is why in philosophical thought this truth must be conceded but in practice it shouldn't be in consideration.

[Anonymous No.14884275]

>>14884024
>>14884133
The problem is in detailing how exactly free choices are made. Either we act due to causes beyond ourselves, or we are random, or we self-cause (like God). Before we act with grace, how can we first freely accept the Holy Spirit? If we act through our nature, then it’s not free. If we act randomly, then we aren’t free. If we act through God’s help, it’s not our free willing, but his. If we act because of the “self,” then we are basically like God, in which case we might wonder why we can’t act like this all the time, always choosing not to sin. If it is true that we sin die to our nature, then it makes sense that we would also choose righteousness by some sort of nature also, no? If not, then how?

[Anonymous No.14884785]

just read spinoza and you'll realize there is no free will. thoughts, just like objects, follow cause-effect relationships. we are slaves to our desire, and slaves to the events which caused those desires, etc. everything goes back to the first action, the substance of the universe, God, prima materia, whatever u wanna call it

[Anonymous No.14884833]

>>14883796
Because people must believe that they can be held accountable for their actions, otherwise fatalism and nihilism will swallow them whole. Even if free will is an illusion the personal and societal power of the lie makes it worth keeping. The utility of the belief far outweighs any contradiction it has with our current explicit knowledge of the physical universe. Religion isn't systemic philosophy, it evolved from the ground up, it was naturally selected, so the fact that the doctrine contains contradiction in logic is irrelevant.

>https://youtu.be/LknvBo4BPEg

[Anonymous No.14885268]

>>14884785
lmfao cause and effect don't real

[Anonymous No.14885313]

>>14883796
before each man stands water and fire. the choice between the two is the extent of his free will.

[Anonymous No.14885332]

Because will, or awareness, or consciousness, or soul, or perception, senses, thought, self, whatever, are very clearly, to anyone who looks without bias, inherently magical and beyond the realms of science currently, and are perhaps even somehow against logic,

[Anonymous No.14885348]

Free will is a spectrum. Some people are freer than others based on how much they are run by unconscious patterns and conditioning

[Anonymous No.14885385]

>>14884024
>God

[Anonymous No.14885405]

>>14883796

http://esotericawakening.com/is-free-will-an-illusion

[Anonymous No.14885422]

>>14883796

For the same reason you do. Everyone believes in free will, those that claim not to are full of shit.
You can choose to do a thing right now, you know this, I know this, you claiming otherwise is just you being an insufferable pseud with nothing more interesting to talk about.

[Anonymous No.14885426]

>>14885422
Got to say, based.

[Anonymous No.14885434]

>>14885422
if you're actually too dumb to understand why free will is incoherent you honestly should not post.
>you can choose to do a thing
Explain how this works causally.

[Anonymous No.14885440]

>>14885422
Yes but how do you know that you just chose to do that and not it being predetermined. Checkmate

[Anonymous No.14885453]

>>14883796
Those who deny free will do so out of a desire to be in chains. The dizzying freedom they experience is too much for them to handle, so they cravenly attempt to abandon themselves to fate or biological determinism.

[Anonymous No.14885457]

>>14885422
This. This topic is one of those philosophical questions that are just not worth your time because you're never going to come a satisfying answer, only more questions. Stop wasting your fucking time and just live your life. Regardless of the truth on this matter, you're gonna live the same way anyway, so why stress over it? It's not practical in the slightest.

[Anonymous No.14885705]

>>14885440
Skepticism wins again faggots.

[Anonymous No.14885712]

>>14885457
actually you can come to an answer very easily. the answer is that free will doesn't exist because things cause each other, which includes your choices, which means your choices are caused by prior events, leading backward until the causal chain is outside you

this is extremely clear to any intellectually honest person who isn't actually retarded

[Anonymous No.14885721]

>>14885712
You are such a pretentious faggot. But of course, you being so is part of the determined fate of this world.

[Anonymous No.14885727]

>>14883796
do you believe in magic
in a young girls heart
she'll pull up on your corner with a loaded AK wit the cart

[Anonymous No.14885730]

I don't, but to rail against the concept is to argue in bad faith. The illusion cannot be broken. Relinquish control.

[Anonymous No.14885736]

>>14885721
i notice you offered no response to anything I said. that makes you the braindead faggot

[Anonymous No.14885757]

>>14883796
>he’s not a compatibilist

[Anonymous No.14885764]

The fact that I can choose to be vegan proves that freewill is real

[Anonymous No.14885780]

>>14884023
>discipline is freedom, and you can attain it.
fuck fuck FUCK
i smoked too much weed throughout my late adolescence and now i have no free will