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/lit/ - Literature

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14883573 No.14883573 [Reply] [Original]

If Spengler is right about the conclusion of Western though, then where can philosophy even go from here? Will it just be reduced to stagnancy?

>> No.14883597

Philosophy will continue with raping the dead corpse of our fallen values by questioning how many genders there are until hordes of rapey Muslim violators flood our countries with blood and semen and establish a worldwide Caliphate.

>> No.14883789

>>14883597
hmm well that doesnt sound too promising

>> No.14883868

sex gifs

>> No.14884071

>>14883868
I understood that reference

>> No.14884142

>>14883573
Spengler wasn't right about his deterministic conclusions, but he was right about some things

>> No.14884147

>>14884142
what was he wrong about, and what was he right about?

>> No.14884220

>>14883573
Spengler doesn't even recognize the West like you think he does to him it's divided into the Classical, Magian and Faustian civilizations. Whenever a civilization dies it successor comes up with new philosophy along with everything else. If the West weren't to decline then we would be caught in stagnant dead end

>> No.14884239

>>14884220
In my experience, Western is synonymous with Faustian. Magian and Classical are other civilizations that the West is strongly afflicted by pseudomorphism of.

Also I had the thought that despite repudiating the three-era structure of basic bitch history, he does create an echo of it with those three. They're all west Eurasian civilizations that occur in sequence and influence each other.

>> No.14884249

>>14883573
Also to answer your question: Indices, catalogues, restatements of earlier ideas, and cults.

>> No.14884266

>>14884239
The point is that like you said the West to him is Faustian civilization. What most people piss and moan about when they talk about the West goes all the way back to the Greeks through the Middle Ages. This concept of the West contains 3 of Spengler's civilizations 2 of which fell into decline and yet we don't view either one of those declines as the end of philosophy.

>> No.14884274

>>14884239
the echo is entirely incidental though. The early medieval period in western Europe doesn't correspond to any Spenglerian civilization at all, it was only over in the Arab world that was happening.

>> No.14884289

>>14884147
He was right about cultures/civilizations acting as organisms, with a spring, summer, fall, winter, and a caesarism. This idea is very useful.

His actual historical analyses were lacking, especially with classical culture. You can tell he is little more than an overambitious scholar, which is quite disappointing. He has this obscene desire to classify whole cultures under some idea that is "only accessible to them", and that the objective of great men is the "self-fulfillment as a part of their culture". This little retard scholar has misunderstood all great people, since he is just a little scholar. It is not some "world-historical consciousness" that influences the great man, nor some self-fulfillment as a part of their culture, it is the great men that influence the "world-historical consciousness"! He just wants to subsume all great men and civilizations under his puny "historical destinies". He is not even close to a philosopher, with his pathetic terms, like "destiny". This is where he betrays himself.

He has a very good historical sense, which is how he came up with the culture-as-organism theory, which was also him attempting to include some heraclitean ideas in his work, but when he oversteps his boundaries, like subsuming a 1000-year culture under some retarded idea and destiny original to them that he happens to know, then he instantly revealed as a lazy, overambitious scholar. This is why he comes up against Nietzsche's genius historical genealogy in the decline of the west: he has to deny these complex differences of men evolving over eachother, in place of his "world-historical consciousness", and retarded "historical destinies". Not to mention he is a nihilist who hates that our civilization will be destroyed, no matter how many times he says that we have to suck it up. He betrays his pessimism when he calls it destiny, like something given to him, given to all of us. He wouldn't have attached "destiny" to the idea if he truly understood why it was necessary, and therefore prefer it and wish it to happen.

>> No.14884304

>>14884266
Yeah I agree. And I think that's probably what will happen as Faustian civilization decays, some barbarians will form a culture and pick up the chain.

What I'm more interested in is how that could possibly happen seeing as the West is so global. And a number of commonly proposed competitors are old, dead civilizations according to Spengler, like China and the former Magian world.

>>14884289
When the book was written, it wouldn't be proper to wish death upon the West. I agree now that it is necessary and good, but it was severely damaged by the wars and what happened after. Faustian civilization might have had a long, slow wasting senescence like Classical civilization did.

>> No.14884393

>>14884304
>When the book was written, it wouldn't be proper to wish death upon the West.
No, I'm saying not to wish for death, but instead just to accept and be happy about that it one day will die. Clearly, we do not want an actual death, we want a caesar who will wipe out the useless waste product that could only be produced in a hyperadvanced civilization like our own. Technology remains ascending, it is just that it's uses are extremely limited due to all the decaying parts we can no longer get rid of because of democracy and effeminate males.

>> No.14884438 [DELETED] 

>>14883597
>until hordes of rapey Muslim violators flood our countries with blood and semen and establish a worldwide Caliphate.
What's up with conservatives and their cuckold fantasies, do they really want to say their wives take brown dick this badly?

>> No.14884444

>>14883597
>until hordes of rapey Muslim violators flood our countries with blood and semen and establish a worldwide Caliphate.
What's up with conservatives and their cuckold fantasies, do they really want to see their wives take brown dick this badly?

>> No.14884455

>>14884444
I find that it's a Jewish thing. Counter-Jihad types often talk like that, but as I've become more of a Nazi and less of a racist liberal I hear less and less of it in my circles.
Also, to make it topical: Never mind that Spengler said Islam is moribund, and that Magian people in the West liberalize as easily as any.

>> No.14884493

>>14884455
>I've become more of a Nazi
Did your brain rot or what

>> No.14884500

>>14884493
No, I just read more.

>> No.14884503

>>14883597
You have no idea what philosophy is.

>> No.14884510

>>14884500
Nah you haven't read shit. Name one Nazi policy that you would like to implement and say why it is good.

>> No.14884517

>>14884444
This is just projection. It is not right wing media outlets that publish ridiculous opinion pieces about the benefits of open marriages. In general though you will find all types of people talking about this subject because it has been a problem for humanity since it began.

>> No.14884520

>>14883597
Bugs... easy on the persecution complex.

>> No.14884544

>>14884510
I've certainly read more than you, friend liberal. And while it's not strictly National Socialist (since I used the term for flair), I like the British Union proposal for a state coordinated by corporations or unions. If one wanted to preserve the form of a parliament for basically sentimental reasons as they did and as might be useful in the US, that would be the optimal way to go about it. Certainly better than letting anonymous petty capitalists or functionaries make the laws.

>>14884517
Don't think about right and left, desu. That post >>14883597 is very much right wing but it's also thoroughly Jewish both in its sexual characteristics and in its fears.

>> No.14884548

>>14883597
>>14883597
This is true, but it's actually something to hope for rather than a warning. Redpilled post imo

The West has exhausted its store of vital energy. There's nothing left to draw on. Art gives way to shit that appeals to kitsch or primal instincts, and now this in turn gives way to shit that does not even have the worth of the primal (which was basic romance, kitsch romanticism,vulgar comedy etc) . Now we're in the era where even primitive feeling is impossible, you need some racial abstraction or social justice theme to "feel" anything for a downtrodden character. We're over civilized and under cultured basically, and the only medicine at this point is to suffer destruction

>> No.14884556

>>14884249
What about an end note? I want to write an end note to philosophy.

>> No.14884559

>>14884556
You could write it if you outlived the West, which we will not.

>> No.14884560

>>14883573
>will
Implying it hasn't.

>> No.14884561

>>14884517
How else do you explain the conservative delirium about Muslim rape gangs?

>> No.14884573

>>14884561
They think the rapes are happening and should be stopped, whereas intelligent people think they're happening and should be accelerated

>> No.14884586

>>14884561
Jews pitting their two greatest enemies at each others' throats?
Also, the fact that such gangs actually exist? But the qualification of them as Muslim, particularly, rather than Pakistani or what have you, or even "sandnigger," is basically Zionist in character
>>14884573
Based accelerationist, but I doubt the efficacy of that. It would be better that they happen at the rate they do anyway and that the racial angle be emphasized, in conjunction with the refusal of the liberal state to act

>> No.14884588

>>14884544
No I meant a justification for some racist policy.

>> No.14884590

>>14884503
what is it then

>> No.14884597

>>14884588
Do you reduce fascism to mere racism then?
I'm certainly a racist, but if that were the only thing that mattered I could satisfy myself with some kind of liberalism, left or right.

>> No.14884612

>>14884586
>Also, the fact that such gangs actually exist?
Except they don't.

>> No.14884616
File: 3.46 MB, 450x625, 1565222806716.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14884616

>>14884612
Hot take from the anon who wanted to hear about fascist policy and then said "wait no you're supposed to just be a racist like in my Wolfensteins and Schindler's Lists".

>> No.14884619

>>14884612
>Except they don't.
Just give it up, libtard, and accept that they're a net good in reality

>> No.14884620

>>14884597
It's just easier to argue against racism. I am pretty sure I can tear whatever shitty argument you give for it apart in seconds. Arguing against fascism in general would take more time.

>> No.14884628

>>14884561
that is literally happening dude. Are you actually unaware of the epidemic of Muslims in the UK raping white children? Rotherham? The dozen other cities starting to be implicated?

>> No.14884630 [DELETED] 

>>14884620
>It's just easier to argue against racism. I am pretty sure I can tear whatever shitty argument you give for it apart in seconds
kek, you really can't.

>> No.14884631

>>14884616
How is that a hot take, it's just an empirical fact

>> No.14884632

>>14884620
>give me an easy argument to refute because my entire perception of right-wing people comes from a CNN documentary about racist skinhead prison gangs
lmao you're pathetic, mate.

>> No.14884633
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14884633

>>14884620
Well, that's because fascism is an unalloyed good, while racial bigotry without justification is honestly deplorable. You couldn't, however, argue against racism on factual grounds, and would end up falling back to tactical nihilism and the fallacy of the grey.

>> No.14884635

>>14884559
Just write it a but prematurely, who cares. Philosophy is dead anyway.

>> No.14884641

>>14884628
>Muslims
"Pakis," please. The Ayatollah has never raped anyone, and the Pakis in question call their prey "white sluts," not "Christian sluts."

>> No.14884643

>>14884628
Are you implying that you have evidence for it?

>> No.14884648

>>14884620
You must be very new if you think it's easy to argue against racism. Let me ask you two questions:

What is the evidence that every human population on earth has the same average potential for cognitive development?
What is the evidence that different populations have different average potentials for cognitive development?

The answer to the first question is quite literally 'there is no evidence'.
The answer to the second question is every study ever done on IQ, the crime statistics of the entire world, all measures of academic achievement, the per capita gpd of countries, brain sizes, and more.

The very best you can do is attack the evidence for differences, which is harder than you probably think. You can't actually offer yourself any evidence for your unexamined position that every population is the same.

>> No.14884651

>>14884630
Oops, let's quickly delete the post in case he actually responds

>> No.14884653

>>14884643
are you serious?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal

>> No.14884655

I believe in racial differences but I think taking any sort of action based on them besides closing the borders is immoral, we should try our best to help all people without deluding ourselves with fantasies about inherent equality

>> No.14884657

>>14884641
This is true.
Liberal Jews have chosen to cultivate a racial hatred in Muslims living in the West, as opposed to a religious one.
A religious one would not work very well in their case.

>> No.14884658

>>14884651
We have new janitors. Don't report posts unless you want them to delete them.

>> No.14884660

>>14884633
Try me

>> No.14884665

>>14884648
>I'm telling you man those Anglo and Nordics are genetically inferior!

>> No.14884666

>>14884660
>p-please respond!
>>14884657
?
I think you have that backwards, anon.

>> No.14884670

>>14884665
you could undoubtedly find some metric by which Anglos and Nordics are inferior to other populations. That is how genetic diversity works

>> No.14884677

>>14884657
>>14884666
Oh, never mind, I see what you mean.

>> No.14884681

>>14884655
It's nice that you have the freedom to operate under such a liberal and welcoming worldview :)
I don't think you will think the same thing if one day your country is 50% African or Chinese because I don't think they will be as benevolent as you.
Chinese people don't treat their minorities very well at all.

>> No.14884689

>>14884681
>I don't think you will think the same thing if one day your country is 50% African or Chinese because I don't think they will be as benevolent as you.
The whole point is to prevent such an outcome of canis canem edit

>> No.14884731

>>14884648
>The very best you can do is attack the evidence for differences, which is harder than you probably think. You can't actually offer yourself any evidence for your unexamined position that every population is the same.
I don't have a position on whether some races have different cognitive potential than others, because there is no evidence for it either way. It's the racists who are convinced that these differences exist merely out of wishful thinking.

>> No.14884734

what should I read before reading spengler?

>> No.14884736

>>14884393
>extremely limited due to all the decaying parts we can no longer get rid of because of democracy and effeminate males
Can you give some examples? Maybe these should be obvious, but I'm an effeminate male who must be spoon-fed answers.

>> No.14884738

>>14884734
Pareto's sociological works.

>> No.14884744

>>14884731
decent b8 but a little too obvious

>> No.14884748

>>14884653
Are you intellectually dishonest or just plain retarded? Your evidence for Muslim immigrants forming rape gangs in europe is a pedo ring from the 80s?

>> No.14884750

>>14884738
underrated rec
you're a cool cat, anon

>> No.14884764

>>14884748
It was operating from the 80s until the 2010s when it was finally dealt with after decades of being covered up. There are a bunch of other similar Muslim child rape gangs, Rochdale and Manchester had scandals in the past decade as well off the top of my head

>> No.14884769

>>14884748
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/quilliam-grooming-gangs-report-asian-abuse-rotherham-rochdale-newcastle-a8101941.html

>> No.14884778

>>14884748
They're also now doing this
>The government is refusing to release official research on the characteristics of grooming gangs, claiming it is not in the “public interest”.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/grooming-gang-rotherham-review-home-office-findings-a9344896.html

An act reminiscent of France deciding to stop recording the ethnicities of criminals something like 15 years ago

>> No.14884783

>>14884748
Almost all of Europes prisons are full of foreigners. The West has an addiction to importing garbage people under the delusion they will become the next generation of tax livestock to fund the pensions. Hopefully covid-19 will solve this.

>> No.14884797

>>14883573
Spengler didnt think we were in decline yet. Actually read him

>> No.14884800

>>14884666
Aaaand he pussyied out, who could have seen it coming.

>> No.14884824

>>14884764
>>14884769
>>14884778
>>14884783
Damn, moving the goalposts already? I thought we were going to get evidence about the Muslim immigrants forming rape gangs and violating our beautiful white women. It's almost like if you are conservative there is no accountability and you can say whatever shit you want without ever thinking to check the sources.

>> No.14884860

>>14884824
We literally posted sources of Muslims committing mass child rape of whites you fucking retard

>> No.14885354

>>14884860
First off that source talks about grooming, not rape, so you are just lying in front of my face. But that's okay, I have come to accept that this is how conservatives argue. Secondly, it doesn't talk about Muslims or immigrants at all, it talks about how Asians are overrepresented in child grooming. Did you mixed up the dogwhistles or what, we aren't doing the race realism argument.

>> No.14885370

>>14885354
They are rape gangs, they are raping children. 'grooming' refers to them conditioning children to accept being raped.

"asians'' is the euphemism the UK uses to refer to mostly Pakistani Muslims

>> No.14885384

>>14884289
>it is the great men that influence the "world-historical consciousness"!
Wrong.

>> No.14885416

>>14885384
Agreed. A great man is prefigured by his time. He distinguishes himself as great by meeting or inverting conditions already set by the zeitgeist of his day. Prime movers are just the 'prime moved' in history. Their "transvaluation of all values" is itself a value -- one which inheres in the culture that gives rise to them.

>> No.14885445

>>14884544
Don't call yourself a Nazi. You don't want to be associated with atrocities committed by the Third Reich. Just call yourself a nationalist or social corporatist.

>> No.14885458

>>14884648
You can accpet that different human populations are not identical in their abilities, including cognitive abilities, without being racist in my opinion. I don't hate any race or ethnicity, which is what racism entails in most people's minds.

>> No.14885463

>>14884824

How have you not heard about this shit??

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derby_child_sex_abuse_ring

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huddersfield_grooming_gang

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newcastle_sex_abuse_ring

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rochdale_child_sex_abuse_ring

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_child_sex_abuse_ring

>> No.14885538

>>14884665
Anglos are a subtype of the nordic race

>> No.14885830

>>14885463
it's what happens when you watch the Daily Show for news.

>> No.14885876

>>14884289
>it is the great men that influence the "world-historical consciousness"
Ah, the classy old hubris, the clay worshipping itself. Such are the times when the bugmen worship the fattest amongst them.

>> No.14886145

>>14884590
Questioning how many genders there are isnt the same as making them up

>> No.14886176

>>14884797
Yes he did. Entering Caesarism is already a form of decline, even though it still has a vitalist spirit.

>> No.14886188

>>14884548
Based
We're a sinking ship and there's nothing we can do to resurrect our culture, which we never even lived in the first place
Even the glory days most traditionalists today advocate for are just a part of the marketing idealization from the past, that's how hopeless we are at this point
We need to take back education and culture from the mainstream mass media elite channels, that's how we regain our humanity back
Unfortunately there's no way to do that without completely outlawing marketing, but that just can't happen

>> No.14886197

>>14883597
Philosophy will bud on it like a ripe and lustful fungus, budding its potent, dripping spores and creating a shape that is bizarre and phosphoric to the eye of the past.

>> No.14886516

>>14884748
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oulu_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal
Oulu never experienced such crimes until the migrants started to come, and being such a new phenomenon they weren't able to deal with problem properly.

>> No.14886552
File: 243 KB, 1600x1074, oswald-spengler-decline-west-trans_1_8ecba590cc1a8d81ecdb4bfdf24392c5.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14886552

As one of the 3 people on this board that has read The Decline of the West in its entirety, this thread is cringe.

>> No.14886596

>>14886552
Based
For the rest of unlightened plebs: Spengler adresses OP's topic specifically

>> No.14886826
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14886826

>IS THAT A CIVILIZATION OF THE PAST? OH, MEIN GOTT, I'M INCOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMPREHENDING!!
krauts and la fantasia just don't mix quite well, sad

>> No.14886933

>>14886145
okay but why didn’t you answer the question

>> No.14886972
File: 13 KB, 220x335, B223EA7B-71FA-4020-9860-8875DB173325.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14886972

>>14883573

>> No.14887023

>>14886933
Cuz that was a different anon

>> No.14887110

>>14885416
>>14885384
>>14885876
I'm sorry, retarded pseudointellectuals, but history doesn't even exist, it is just another sign in the code of hyperreality with it's own obscenity, and it's own hilarious pretensions to capturing, freezing, and preserving the "past" perminantly in a dead form.
Baudrillard already destroyed the historians:
>Scrutinizing the ambiguities of its masters (even toppling them from their pedestals as master-thinkers), philosophy is in a strictly defensive posture; the same goes for our society as a whole, which, having failed to generate a new history, is doomed to chew over the old one in order to prove its own existence - including the existence of its past crimes. But what does such a proof amount to? It is really only because we have disappeared politically and historically today (and therein lies our problem) that we seek to prove that we died between 1940 and 1945, at Auschwitz or in Hiroshima - which at least makes for a strong history. We are like the Armenians, who wear themselves out trying to prove that they were massacred in 1917 - a proof that is unattainable, useless, yet in some sense vital.

>What is actually occurring collectively, confusedly, via all the trials and debates - is a transition from the historical stage to a mythical stage: the mythic - and media-led - reconstruction of all these events. And in a sense this mythic conversion is the only possible way, not to exculpate us morally, but to absolve us in phantasy from the guilt of this primal crime. But in order for this to be achieved, in order for even a crime to become a myth, the historical reality must first be eradicated. Otherwise, since all these things (fascism, the camps, the extermination) have been, and remain, historically unresolvable for us, we should be obliged to repeat them for ever like a primal scene. It is not nostalgia for fascism that is dangerous: what is dangerous - albeit pitiful - is that pathological re-enactment of the past in which everyone plays a part, in which everyone effectively collaborates - those who deny the existence of the gas chambers just as much as those who believe in their reality, Heidegger's detractors just as much as his defenders; what is dangerous is the mass delusion whereby all the wealth of imagination missing from our time, all the capital of violence and reality, now become illusory, is transplanted back to that time by a sort of compulsion to relive it, by a sort of deep-seated guilt over not having been there. All this bespeaks a desperate process of abreaction in response to the fact that these events are on the point of escaping us on the level of reality.