/lit/ - Literature

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Anonymous Wed Mar 11 13:15:03 2020 No.14872356 [Reply] [Original]

Does any philosopher except Marx address the utterly depressing fact that all of us have to spend the majority of our time working for a salary — ultimately to make someone else rich, but that’s not the point — doing menial bullshit that we really don’t want to do? Literally all I want is to live in a comfy cottage in the countryside, away from most technology, spending my time reading and building up a garden and fishing and pursuing my creative interests. I don’t want to play the fucking game.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 13:17:59 2020 No.14872360 Then don't But say goodbye to modern medicine and food that lasts more than 2 days

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 13:19:16 2020 No.14872367 >All I want is what men died for since the beginning of history

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 13:19:30 2020 No.14872368 >>14872356 Kill yourself.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 13:22:30 2020 No.14872378 >he doesnt wake up at 5 Maybe if you weren't stupid and lazy you would have free time

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 13:26:47 2020 No.14872394 >>14872356 try to figure out a way to game the system and spite the world

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 13:30:32 2020 No.14872407 >>14872378 I wake up at 5pm, get on my level!

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 13:34:52 2020 No.14872426 >>14872356 Marx doesn't say you should be able to always do what your want to do you stupid hippy, you're a failure now and you'd be a failure in a communist society too

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 13:48:44 2020 No.14872483 >>14872426 He is very critical of the wage system, you simpleton. No one's telling anybody to "just smoke weed everyday, bro". But working for a boss and receiving a wage for your labour is pure cuckoldry.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 13:51:52 2020 No.14872496 fucking utopists. did your momma tell you lifes gonna be wonderful? well heres the truth: its not and it will not be. live with it or dont.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 13:55:00 2020 No.14872512 >>14872496 >said the caveman to the one who proposed building houses

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 13:55:06 2020 No.14872514 >>14872356 Yeah Ted Kaczynski amazed he hasn’t been mentioned yet

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 13:55:06 2020 No.14872515 >>14872356 Who's going to build your cottage? Who's going to extract the raw materials, form the building blocks, transport them to the site etc? Who's going to produce your books and make your fishing rods?

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 13:59:16 2020 No.14872524 >>14872483 Hes entirely opposed to the wage system, that doesnt mean he cares if you get to live your dream. A society where there were no wages is not alone a society where you'd have any more freedom over how you make a living than this one

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 14:59:58 2020 No.14872786

>>14872524
>Marx doesn't care if you live your dream
But that's one of the primary reasons he was opposed to the wage system. He didn't want everyone to stop working, he wanted a system where the individual could put work towards an area which they cared about.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 15:09:33 2020 No.14872843 >>14872356 I'd say the usual anti-tech crowd addresses this one way or another: Ivan Illich, Kirckpatrick Sale, Ted K, Lewis Mumford, etc.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 15:15:28 2020 No.14872876 >>14872786 So, who would clean toilets in communism?

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 15:21:58 2020 No.14872908

>>14872356

I don't mind working, but I don't want to work all goddamn day 5 days a week. Hunter gatherers only worked a short time growing and hunting food, the rest of time they spent hamming and hawing around campfires, fighting and fucking, and getting blasted on mushrooms. Why are we wasting lives as machine cogs?

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 15:30:24 2020 No.14872946

>>14872908
>Hunter gatherers only worked a short time growing and hunting food, the rest of time they spent hamming and hawing around campfires, fighting and fucking, and getting blasted on mushrooms.
Wrong.
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/ted-kaczynski-the-truth-about-primitive-life-a-critique-of-anarchoprimitivism

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 15:34:31 2020 No.14872971 >>14872876 Not saying it works, just correcting a brainlet. Not a commie

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 15:40:05 2020 No.14872987

>>14872483
>But working for a boss and receiving a wage for your labour is pure cuckoldry.
It's literally the opposite.
Employment is a contract between the employee and the employer. If either of you don't like the terms, you're free to fuck off and do literally anything else with your time, and they're free to hire someone else.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 15:41:47 2020 No.14872995 >>14872876 You don't need to take a shit in communism bro

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 15:43:51 2020 No.14873007 >all I want to do is live an effortless life of luxury lol

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:02:01 2020 No.14873104 >>14873007 Is communism all just one gigantic cope for the lazy and useless?

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:02:15 2020 No.14873106 >>14873007 What’s wrong with that?

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:04:02 2020 No.14873109

>>14872987

I agree. Now, try it in a society where everyone has equal access to capital. No banks, no debt money, open access to land. Where a contract is really mutual. Suddenly the fuck off part kind of doesn't fall in benefit of one party or the other, now does it?

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:05:34 2020 No.14873117 >>14873109 >Where a contract is really mutual. An employment contract already is. >Suddenly the fuck off part kind of doesn't fall in benefit of one party or the other, now does it? Both parties agree to it because it's mutually beneficial.

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:10:45 2020 No.14873140

>>14873117
Are you legitimately retarded? The workers only “agree” to be employed because they need to. Of course they have the choice to starve or live impoverished, but slaves also had a “choice” to be tortured to death if they didn’t want to work.
What essentially happens in a company is that the workforce does everything — engineers the product, makes the product, packages it, markets it, makes the sales, does the accounts, manages the workplace, delivers the product, etc. — in short, does everything that is necessary and sufficient to generate profit, and because of this they get rewarded with a tiny portion of the profit, while the men at the top and the shareholders, who do not add anything of value that could not have been done by workers, take the majority of the profit and distribute it amongst themselves. This is INARGUABLE.

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:11:29 2020 No.14873143

>>14872356
Too bad you can't because of primitive accumulation.
Sorry anon, but you have only 3 option. Sleep on the streets, like a hobo, becoming part of the Capitalist class, which is extremely hard if you don't have the combination of IQ, hard work and luck, or;.. get in the wage cage.
You get in this cage anon. You like it. There are iphones and Coca-cola to help you coke. It's cool.

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:11:51 2020 No.14873146

>>14872786
No, Marx wanted people to get the most out of their work by actually owning the entire value of that work. That doesnt mean you enjoy the work itself merely that you're maximizing what you can get out of it. The maximized value of being a shitshoveler is still just the value of a shitshoveler. You have a retard tier understanding of Marx.

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:12:57 2020 No.14873152

>>14873117

No, it isn't. When a man can survive comfortably without having to work for someone else, then it would be equal. Creating conditions of unequal capital and land access, forces people to work for others. The contract no longer is equal but made under forced conditionsof artificially created desperation..

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:16:14 2020 No.14873166 >>14872515 yourself if you are capable enough. Building a log cabin and most basic amenities are simple enough unless you are an actual retard. How the fuck do you think we did it without the processes of modern civilization?

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:17:23 2020 No.14873174 >>14872987 >if I like you in a room and only give you shit, piss, and cum to eat then obviously you're entering a voluntary mutual contract when you eat my shit because you could just fuck off and eat anything else otherwise

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:18:57 2020 No.14873182

>>14873140
>The workers only “agree” to be employed because they need to.
No, they don't. This is only the case under communism, where the closest thing to a choice you have is get sent to work in the fields, or starve to death in a gulag.
Under capitalism, you're not forced to work for any specific employer. I literally don't know how you made it to 18 years of age without knowing this.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:19:18 2020 No.14873184 >>14873146 In a classless society, there is also no division of labor. So everybody would be a shitshoveler from time to time.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:19:20 2020 No.14873185 File: 28 KB, 400x400, LvAkHwWr_400x400.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] yeah, just read Paul Skallas bro

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:20:47 2020 No.14873193 >>14873182 >where the closest thing to a choice you have is get sent to work in the fields, or starve to death in a gulag. You have a deep understanding of communism. Must be a privilege to have a conversation with you.

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:20:52 2020 No.14873194

>>14873104
It is. Not saying the world is OK now but anyone yearning for communism is just self-complacent "visionary", wasting their lives fantasizing of better times while doing nothing but reading socialist propaganda and filling their heads with the idea of a fluffy dream world. Communists don't care or know how to get there, or how it truly works out, it's all pipe dream. They don't even want to face the fact that their hard work towards the dream only benefits capitalists.

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:21:31 2020 No.14873196

>>14873166

A man doesn't even need that. He can easily dig a Hobbit house hole in the ground, and live quite comfortably. The problem is code enforcement and property tax goons would take the land away from him, which itself is part of the artificial paradigm preventing people from being able to survive on their own without being a machine cogs for someone else.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:23:22 2020 No.14873203 >>14872483 How is working for the collective and receiving shitty bead art any better?

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:23:22 2020 No.14873204 File: 85 KB, 1000x500, fat-commie-comic.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14873152 Is this nigger serious? If you were given 50 acres of land with no strings attached right now, you wouldn't do a fucking thing with it, you retarded commie.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:24:03 2020 No.14873208 Marx wasn't against work you imbecile. There is no anti-work philosophy except maybe Monarchy if you're a Monarch.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:24:13 2020 No.14873209 Daily reminder that communists and ancaps want the exact same thing they're both just too autistic and caught up in ideology and language to realize it.

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:25:13 2020 No.14873216
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>>14872356
For thousands of years men understood that life itself was labor. They were constantly working to survive, and then to thrive, and if they didn't the cost was very often going to be not making it through the winter. It's only in the very recent past that everyone suddenly got it in their heads life was a pleasure cruise and anything that stood in the way of maximizing your immediate pleasure was an unnatural, rigged game. You can either get a job and play society's game with all the protection and resources society provides, or you can live off the grid and play nature's game, which will demand just as much of you, minus the medicine and Vietnamese stopwatch maintenance forums. There's always a choice. Accept that and be at peace. Everything's fine.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:26:19 2020 No.14873225 >>14873204 Give 45 acres away to other people who need it. You only need 1 acre to grow food and farm all you need to live, but I want to use the other 4 acres as a wildlife sanctuary. The fuck do I need 50 acres for?

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:26:58 2020 No.14873232 >>14872908 And they had to kill their babies... in that world I hope you were one of the kids left for the wolves.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:27:02 2020 No.14873233 >>14873204 that cyrillic hurts my eyes

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:28:44 2020 No.14873241 >>14873196 That's primitive accumulation for you. >>14873204 Or maybe you are projecting? I would definitively do quite a lot of gardening. But you are right. Be a wageslave, live in concrete, play videogames. If this is your ideal life.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:28:52 2020 No.14873242 >>14873216 Fake and gay, most societies throughout history saw work as nothing more than a necessary evil reserved for the proles of society. Warriors and priests have always been held in higher regard than workers until the liberal revolutions.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:29:13 2020 No.14873245 >>14873225 >The fuck do I need 50 acres for? The same thing you need 1 acre for; absolutely nothing, because you wouldn't work the land in a million years anyway.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:29:15 2020 No.14873247 >>14873109 Yes, a world where the incompetent and insane had equal access to everything... that sure sounds great, I hope YOU get to live in that world some day.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:30:25 2020 No.14873251 >>14872356 Why didn't you choose to be born rich then you retard?

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:31:28 2020 No.14873254 >>14873242 I'm not sure exactly what you think that's refuting.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:31:56 2020 No.14873258 >>14873232 You are an expert on primitive tribes aren't you? Oh by the way, we westerner (((civilized))) people never kill babies. Nonono. Never.

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:33:51 2020 No.14873269
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>>14872356
Because I do maybe 15 hours of work a week, and get paid for 40.
The rest of the time I get paid not to produce anything of value, but sit around reading on Mr. Shecklebergstein's dime.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:33:57 2020 No.14873270 >>14873245 Gardening is not hard at all if you plant high calories food like potatoes. To me it's even fun.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:35:09 2020 No.14873276 >>14873269 Some wagies indeed play the system. Good for you.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:35:26 2020 No.14873279 >>14873245 Lol what's stopping you from buying land and gardening

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:37:31 2020 No.14873294 >>14872368 This OP trust me

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:38:48 2020 No.14873301 >>14873251 /thread

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:39:28 2020 No.14873308

>>14873140
Yeah in all socialist schemes it's either work for the collective or starve. The different being, in socialism you're not allowed to own property, so it's impossible for you to work for yourself. Now, when stateless capitalism is achieved, competition will drive down the rate of profit, to the point where all workers are also bosses. If company A has management that does nothing, and pays out to investors too much, than company B with less managers and no stockholders would be able to beat them out. Now, why isn't this happening in the world today? Well, it is. But the rate of acceleration is hampered by something, you'd understand this if you did just the smallest amount of research. But that would mean you couldn't hide in your victim narrative, so I doubt you will.

Profits for any given company is like 5% or even less, which means, if you really think management and investors don't do anything, any given worker is "losing" almost nothing in order to participate in the division of labor. With irrational planning, ie socialism, that "lost" value is nothing compared to the lost time required of the worker to participate in whatever planning scheme whatever sort of socialism enforces.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:40:32 2020 No.14873313 >>14873146 Who would force people to be shitshovlers?

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:40:53 2020 No.14873316

>>14873270
"Gardening" enough to live off of is absolutely difficult. Why do you think communist countries all experienced massive starvation the second they genocided all the "evil farmers hoarding the land"?
There's definitely a learning curve if you're undertaking an agricultural operation larger than a flower pot.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:41:39 2020 No.14873321 >>14872356 The only way to truly be free is to be rich.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:42:06 2020 No.14873326 >>14873166 Well, they were actually smart, unlike you. Go pick up 200 pounds and then you're allowed to talk.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:42:09 2020 No.14873328 >>14873308 Based 1970s vision of socialism.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:42:09 2020 No.14873329 >>14873254 The entire thesis of the post that life is labor. Only true for plebs.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:42:55 2020 No.14873335 >>14872356 Some people genuinely enjoy their jobs, and find enrichment in their vocation.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:43:35 2020 No.14873336 >>14873335 Yeah, some people. Most people fucking dread every second.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:43:41 2020 No.14873337 >>14873313 I wouldnt, circumstance does now and still would under communism.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:43:45 2020 No.14873338 >>14873316 Muh Holodomor. I personally know people from USSR. They weren't starving at all like in your fantasies. Not that i like USSR, but just saying.

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:45:15 2020 No.14873347

I work in a public cultural space and the people I help over there have deficiencies (most are blind, some are deaf). It's an institutional mess, pay is shit, work is tiresome, I don't have many benefits and I'm well aware anything good that comes out of it can be used for political purposes. I've been there for 4 years and all I see are cuts, most of my colleagues got fired and so the work doubled for us that remain. My only consolation is that what I do really help them and I've learned to be thankful for what I have. Some people cry to me on a wednesday afternoon just because I helped them use a computer you know. I did not expect or study for this and I intend to leave the place soon, but life has a bunch of ups and downs and little ironies.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:45:54 2020 No.14873351 >>14873225 You need more than an acre to grow enough food to eat, you fucking retard... Do you know how big an acre is? Have you been outside? Have you even taken flour out of a bag to make something?

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:47:14 2020 No.14873361 >>14873258 Yeah commies have convinced women to kill their babies... even more black women to kill their babies... I don't see your point...

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:48:17 2020 No.14873364 >>14873270 Eat nothing but potatoes and see what happens...

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:49:01 2020 No.14873368 >>14873361 based antinatalist commies

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:49:20 2020 No.14873370 >>14873328 It's work or starve in every version of socialism.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:49:26 2020 No.14873372 >>14873338 >source: dude trust me It literally happens everywhere you commie retards try and enact your "land reform", aka "kill all the farmers and predictably starve to death."

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:49:45 2020 No.14873374 >>14873351 If he is alone and have high calories food, he can live growing on 1 acre.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:50:38 2020 No.14873380 >>14873338 Yeah Stalin forced the famine on one region that was most opposing him...

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:51:53 2020 No.14873385 >>14873368 Antinatalism is such a stupid ideology. Even the most basic understanding of mathematic disproves it.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:52:55 2020 No.14873392 >>14873374 Nope. As I said above, eat nothing but potatoes and see what happens. You really should. Just eat potatoes and never speak to anyone again til you're dead. Thanks.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:53:47 2020 No.14873394 >>14873361 Lol do you really believe that in 2020? How dumb can you be? >>14873370 Ever heard of the Hutterites? Israeli Kibbuzim? Of course not. >>14873372 Say hi to McCarthy on my behalf.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 16:55:22 2020 No.14873401 >>14873380 >Communism = USSR= State Capitalism. If it helps you sleep at night, believe this i don't care.

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 17:03:51 2020 No.14873439

i would hazard a guess that in a century "work" will be run my lightspeed computers clusters. Although in the early years you'd need people to program these systems, they would soon develop the knowledge themselves through the constant chatter the clusters would undertake with each other their knowledge on the tasks they undertake would become more and more profound. First the tasks and vocations which require an exact science or logic will be understood primarily by the clusters; Soon after that it will be that of creation and thought. This will be a boon to humanity. Humanity will start to grow in itself again, and nurture thought and understanding even more. This is when humans will truly begin to travel throughout space.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 17:07:00 2020 No.14873455 >>14873439 >i would hazard a guess that in a century "work" will be run my lightspeed computers clusters. Which will be developed by capitalists, while commies are busy genociding themselves with biological weapons.

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 17:12:23 2020 No.14873483

>>14873182
You may not be forced to work for any one specific employer, but there’s definitely not as much freedom or choice in the matter as you make it out to be. It’s difficult finding a job, even with a good degree, so there’s a good chance you’ll end up having to suck it up and work a shitty job you don’t care about on terms you don’t agree with.
P.S. only replying to this specific point, not arguing for communism

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 17:17:24 2020 No.14873509 >>14872987 imagine thinking real life works like this. how fucking posh are you?

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 17:21:13 2020 No.14873529 >>14873509 That's how it works in capitalist countries, yes. No one has ever held a gun to your head and told you "NO, YOU MUST WORK AT THIS PLACE DOING THIS JOB." That is something that only happens in communist countries.

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 17:27:00 2020 No.14873551

>>14873394
Most of what you're replying to is me.

Lefties were the real drivers behind abortions laws. But screams of "current year!" change that.

Yeah the Kibuttzi were a great example of how much people do no want socialism. They were given the choice to continue them and they literally voted socialism away. When socialism isn't backed up by force, it does not presist.

McCarthy was right... there were Soviet spies in all parts of government and industry... they literally stole all of their tech from the US...

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 17:27:33 2020 No.14873553 >>14873529 McCarthyism is strong with this one.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 17:28:09 2020 No.14873554 >>14873401 Yeah I know, everything that works out and his good is socialism, while everything that is bad and doesn't work is capitalism. I've heard this "argument" a billion times.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 17:29:10 2020 No.14873562 >>14873455 Natural selection, man.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 17:29:58 2020 No.14873568 >>14873553 It turns out that absolutely nobody wants to work with communist scum, go figure.

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 17:31:26 2020 No.14873570

>>14873553
Not an argument, and not even what "McCarthyism" even is. McCarthy was a member of the US government that, rightly, saw inflitration by an enemy state. He wasn't some great think that understood socialism or communism. He just worked to find the spies in government and industry, and though he found many of them, they still were even more than he had thought.

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 17:33:10 2020 No.14873580

>>14873551
>Lefties were the real drivers behind abortions laws
The left of the Capital is the laboratory of the Capital. What is to become in the future.
>Yeah the Kibuttzi were a great example of how much people do no want socialism. They were given the choice to continue them and they literally voted socialism away. When socialism isn't backed up by force, it does not presist.
Like Capitalism is never backed by force. What is property of the means of production enforcement, What is police repression of workers strikes? Yes workers, not bourgeois leftists from the university, workers, like very recently the yellow vests in western europa.
>When socialism isn't backed up by force, it does not presist.
Huterrites are not using violences against their own, yet they are thriving, and their number grow bigger and bigger. It's one of the fastest growing communities in north america, and they are classless, and out of the wage labor system.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 17:37:12 2020 No.14873601 >>14872356 All I want is 1000aud a week for free

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 17:44:31 2020 No.14873629 [DELETED]

>>14873601
It's possible in the nordics. It's too bad niggers are flooding in these countries to abuse the system and native inhabitants are beginning to lose their moral so soon everybody gets 1000e a week for doing nothing and the whole system collapses.

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 17:44:52 2020 No.14873630

>>14872360
>then dont
Advice on how to do this? I've wondered how I'm supposed to get started since virtually land is owned and I can't buy it without getting a job first, which will almost certainly requirement to invest a significant portion of my life becoming employable in the first place. After I have the land, I'll have to either purchase the requisite starting resources and tools to work it, or I'll have to find the knowledge somewhere, both of which require participation in the capitalist market system.
I could theoretically dodge the system entirely and simply work from my own labor, but I'd have to be able to out compete the system in order to get anywhere, and that's not happening.

So, yea, I'm wondering how you made it. I'm assuming you made it, since you've so confidently stated
>Then don't
as if there's any actual option for it other than moving to a third-world country and starting from total scratch, assuming the residents accept you (and even then, it's only a matter of time before capitalism invades there, as well).

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 17:48:54 2020 No.14873648 >>14873551 Ironically, the spies were most typically US citizens bought off by the Soviets, because capitalism takes all that is best in man and crushes it beneath the value of a dollar.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 17:51:33 2020 No.14873661 >>14873648 Actualy they were jews.

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 17:52:00 2020 No.14873666

>>14873580
> The left of the Capital is the laboratory of the Capital. What is to become in the future.

Or you could just say "I was wrong" rather than repeat that meaningless drivel that you think makes you seem smarter.

The current system is socialist. The state owns everything. Communism is simply the highest form of capitalism. Capitalism is enforced in just the same way that socialism is/will be enforced. The yellow vests are on the streets fighting for PRIVATE PROPERTY, which of course isn't possible til the state is abolished.

I don't see why you think the Huterrites prove anything. They are a strictly patriarchy command economy with a strict hiearchy. Doesn't seem like something you might want, though what do I know. As Borges said, money represents freedom. In societies without money, people would be slaves to other slaves, unable to do anything without the premission of the whole, which wouldn't be truly controlled by anyone. Pure madness.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 17:54:10 2020 No.14873678 >>14873630 You don't have to invest any time in getting a job... Just go get one... Rural people that have big plots of land they bought for 20 bucks work blue collar jobs, you fucking walnut.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 17:55:58 2020 No.14873686 >>14873648 No, they were people already loyal to the USSR, that were paid to do operations in the US. A spy has to eat, too.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 18:00:26 2020 No.14873711 File: 100 KB, 1024x640, socialism.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14873630 tl;dr: how can I accomplish things without putting in even the most minuscule amount of effort??

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 18:08:28 2020 No.14873745 >>14872356 Kaczynski

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 18:59:00 2020 No.14874018

>>14873666
>Or you could just say "I was wrong" rather than repeat that meaningless drivel that you think makes you seem smarter.
It's not drivel. In case you didn't noticed, 99% of the political economy spectrum is Capitalist. From the far left LGBT of the Capital to the Alt "trad" right of the Capital. Traditionalist, but with private property of the means of production and wage labor, of course. About the left of the Capital, does Georges Soros want to abolish the Capital? I don't think so.

>The state owns everything.
The State is an emanation of the exchange value system. Not the other way round. The State emerged after the exchange value started at the neolithic revolution. The State is the glue that allow all this shit to happen. Nobody would agree to live like this if there was no State to enforce it.
>I don't see why you think the Huterrites prove anything.
They prove it is possible to organize production without class divide, private property of the means of production, and wage labor.
This already prove much in itself.
> In societies without money, people would be slaves to other slaves
Primitive tribes proves otherwise. In primitive tribes, there is indeed reverse dominance hierarchies, but in my opinion, it's better than hierarchies not based around reverse dominance.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 19:07:02 2020 No.14874072 >>14873335 Even the most satisfiying jobs feel like a burden after doing it for 8 hours every single day.

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 19:08:01 2020 No.14874078
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>>14872356
>menial bullshit that we really don’t want to do
Suit yourself, loser. If you were too dumb to figure out a good career and the path to attain it, or too lazy to put in the required work, you deserve to think like this.
Enjoy being part of the underclass along with 90% of the population as we move further into this century. Liberal capitalism is the new aristocracy.
My job has a flexible start time between 6AM and 10AM and I choose to get up at 5:15 and start at 6, I like getting up early and getting home before everyone else.

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 19:08:25 2020 No.14874081

I'm an engineer and i tell people I'm unemployed so that my profession is not used as my identity. It's so essential to the wagie mind however that not having a job is seen as simply a low-social capital profession and not as being outside the system, unless you can convince them you are some sort of socialite and it immediately becomes a very high social capital position to be in.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 19:16:28 2020 No.14874135 >>14873185 is this guy a meme or does he say anything of value?

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 19:16:31 2020 No.14874137

Work is a fact of life. It’s just reality and I don’t think Marx held utopian delusions that we would ever liberate ourselves from work. Whether there’s philosophers who deal with the modern state of affairs regarding work, I’m sure there are plenty. What you want is achievable even in the US though, more so if you’re young and have no debt.

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 19:21:31 2020 No.14874167

>>14873254
Work is seen as a curse. It is work to be done. Moderns work for works own sake, for some cult of alenating productivity. It's a product of the industrial revolution, you simply keep building products on the assembly line until time is up, more is better, the work is never done, merely put on hold.

The way people viewed work is not the same as today. Work was similar to modern chores.

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 19:25:53 2020 No.14874190

>>14874137
>Work is a fact of life.
The amount worked is what's out of balance. Humans could live quite comfortably working only a few hours a week. Everyone was convinced the productivity of basic computers would create a 24 hour work week at least, but instead it was decided to just use the increased efficenty to create more.

Ironically we can't even get something as essential as shelter solved. We've conquered food, sanitation, animal violence and water, but finding a place to live isn't easy.

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 19:30:39 2020 No.14874225

>>14873630
What is your concept of work and participating in the system? If you can acquire some farmable land, you can get to a point where you pretty don’t have to work if you don’t want to. That is, you don’t really have to work in the sense of going to work for someone else as an employee. You’ll still have to work to make the land productive and raise livestock and do whatever else. Ironically, this was the original conception of America, to be a land of yeoman farmers, something that was viewed as essential for the American experiment. Anyway, it’s not really possible to opt of the system. You’re going to have to work unless you’re already wealthy. It doesn’t really matter how you get the money, but I would encourage you to get into a trade, maybe multiple trades, or join the military, which would help with purchasing property. Don’t bother with college and avoid debt like the plague. For knowledge on how to farm and raise livestock and do other things obviously you can use books but if you’re in the US, land grant universities usually offer agricultural extension education services online and in-person.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 19:36:16 2020 No.14874264 >>14873208 Monarchs still work(ed).

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 19:37:39 2020 No.14874274

>>14874225
Being a modern farmer is retarded and your productivity demands for the land makes it so you defacto don't work for yourself.

You may be thinking of a retirement homestead. If you want to accumulate capital obviously you need to work a very high income job, get some inheritance, win the lottery, or invest in some massive return product (aka buy bitcoin when it costed nothing)

Wageslavery is a caste. There is no avoiding it, even with sufficient capital to avoid it or retire early their are social expectations in place to discourage this.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 19:37:56 2020 No.14874277 >>14874190 How much of that is 'work' and how much is shitty admin associated with that work that takes up like another 10 hours of your day

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 19:39:21 2020 No.14874284

>>14872356
>I wish I didn't need resources to live
Tough, you do. If you save diligently, you can have your cottage and books for idle decades.

You could not buy land with a lifetime of labor just a few centuries ago. You would also have to build your house and not have books, unless you sold your life to a monastery.

The life you idolize has never been more possible than it is now. You just have to be useful to other people to make it happen.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 19:40:24 2020 No.14874287 >>14873335 Some, yes. Most in the modern world never identify a vocation. They move from wage labor to wage labor doing work that’s hardly suitable for any human being.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 19:41:11 2020 No.14874293 >>14872483 >But working for a boss and receiving a wage for your labour is pure cuckoldry. >You offered me a price for my labor and I agreed it was reasonable >But now I think I deserve more and it's YOUR FAULT

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 19:46:23 2020 No.14874328 >>14874293 >and I agreed it was reasonable lol do lolbertardians really think like this? Do you think employees have any real bargaining power? Do you think they can afford to not have an income? Or that hours are even negotiable?

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 19:51:32 2020 No.14874363

>>14874328
Hey, maybe it's my educated-and-trained privilege talking, but while I had to eat shit to get my first experience, I moved up to making six figures in three short years and can legitimately leverage offers against one another and bargain for benefits packages easily.

Besides which, the fact that you really need a job doesn't make it someone else's fault when you accept a bad offer.

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 20:09:34 2020 No.14874442

>>14874018
Oh yeah, the "everyone that is exactly as down with the cause as me is the enemy" argument. Never heard that one before. If you were honest, you'd admit abortion doesn't fit your narrative. Every body is just a worker that will be exploited, comrade. Capitalism is just the economic expression of the patriarchy controlling women, comrade. Serious, 101 stuff here.

Lol, arguing that there weren't governments before exchange. And yes, the state and government as exactly the same, one ruler or a thousand rulers still means you're ruled. I'm not going to play your semantics game. Anyhow, this sort of argument is a good example of how socialists are backwards thinkers. You start with the conclusion, and find evidence to support that conclusion.

And yeah, sure, no one would agree to live like this without force. We're living in socialism. Individuals are not legally allowed to own property, under threat of death. Simple as that.

With the Huterrites there is clearly class, the boss and those allowed to vote, there is obviously private property, and with a little investigation there would be sure to be found either a credit system that functioned exactly like money, and a black market. Black markets exist everywhere where exchange isn't allowed to function how it should.

Yeah, of course, you're weak, weak people need to band together to dominate the strong.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 20:10:46 2020 No.14874455 >>14874072 How would you know?

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 20:14:27 2020 No.14874468

>>14874190
We wouldn't need to work for so long as rich fucks like you didn't drive up houses cost and give it to their dumbshit commies kids, and then go crying to government to make it so ever house cost a billion dollars of red tape to make. Fuck off you commie piece of garbage, you drain everything around you that your weak hands can get ahold of.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 20:16:28 2020 No.14874478 >>14874287 How would you know that?

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 20:17:31 2020 No.14874483 >>14874328 The employee doesn't have property at stake... if a business goes out of business the employee loses nothing...

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 20:18:37 2020 No.14874487 paul skallas and taleb have analyzed wage slavery to a high degree. moreso paul

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 20:23:32 2020 No.14874501 >>14873630 You're not cut out for life outside the system.

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 20:26:08 2020 No.14874516

>>14874328
Its of no use arguing with libtards over this, they think that just because you arent made to do that work you have total freedom of what to do and choose to make money from.

Most of them are students that dont know what the future reserves for them or working people that are so brainwashed by the "muh capitalism is freedom" ideology that they dont see they are literally working 10 hours a day for a average wage that at the end of the day no one has time or energy to spend it.

Not even the fact that they literally think you should be thankful of rich people for "creating" this jobs for you.

>>14874442
>Individuals are not legally allowed to own property
Do you know the difference between private property and personal property?
>You are weak, you want to dominate the strong
And this is a weak argument from someone who has never read a page off marx or any modern political or philosophical book past 19th century.
Im not even the anon you are responding to but this is such a shit reply that i wonder why you even wrote it.
Sorry if we dont like being forced into working 10 hours a day for someone who has a land claim over the workstation and so him and 10000 other people continue to hold control over 50% of the world's wealth.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 20:28:12 2020 No.14874524 >>14874501 He's obviously not cut out for life in the system either.

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 20:29:46 2020 No.14874534

>>14874442
>If you were honest, you'd admit abortion doesn't fit your narrative.
??? Most radical Marxist are anti-abortion.
>Capitalism is just the economic expression of the patriarchy controlling women, comrade.
Have i ever talked about women? Women are men are wage-slave, both alike. Women with Capitalism propaganda are even wanting to be more wage slaves like. See the "strong, independant women narrative", which is not something emanated from Karl Marx. Not at all, unironically. Read the text from the author, not internet vids, mainstream propaganda, Jordan Peterson or whatever source you usually use.
>With the Huterrites there is clearly class, the boss and those allowed to vote
The bosses in Huterrites communities have administrative "power". They can take decision, but in no case are they allowed to more production, more housing, more material wealth. By the way, in Huterrites communities, there are procedures to "impeach" the bosses, if their management doesn't satisfy the community. That's kinda cool.
>Yeah, of course, you're weak, weak people need to band together to dominate the strong.
You people always assume that we are weak. In any case, i thrust way much the weaks than the strong. From my experience, most powerful people are pieces of shit. Exception exists, but are rare.

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 20:32:03 2020 No.14874546

>>14874516
> Do you know the difference between private property and personal property?

Yeah, I do. Everyone here understands all the terms and ideas. They are arguing in opposition to socialist ideas because they understand them.

I don't care what you like. If you want to try a revolution, please hurry up, the sooner you're dead and thrown in a mass grave the better. You have never and will never do anything that will ever possibly benefit yourself or others, there is no point you even being here.

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 20:32:07 2020 No.14874548

>>14874483
Oh yes, im pretty sure that the poor factory owner that has been taking the biggest income while giving minimum wage for the workers is gonna be homeless when the business goes out, and the rest of the unemployed workers are gonna be totally fine.
Most common thing i see in the streets is ex-private property owners that cant afford to live anymore. Its almost as if before opening a big business the owner doesnt already have a lot of money and even consults experts to predict the risks and the profits they will make.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 20:36:07 2020 No.14874567 >>14874546 >the sooner you're dead and thrown in a mass grave the better. Now you show your true colors. Who is the good guy and the bad guy now?

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 20:36:09 2020 No.14874568 >>14874534 >Women with Capitalism propaganda are even wanting to be more wage slaves like. See the "strong, independant women narrative" What's with the social conservative cringe from some leftists on this board

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 20:36:42 2020 No.14874571 >>14874516 subtle

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 20:38:23 2020 No.14874578

>>14874546
>Yeah, I do. Everyone here understands all the terms and ideas. They are arguing in opposition to socialist ideas because they understand them.
>"The current system is socialist. The state owns everything. Communism is simply the highest form of capitalism. Capitalism is enforced in just the same way that socialism is/will be enforced."
Oh yes i see you do.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 20:38:31 2020 No.14874579 >>14874567 The guy you're responding to, because if the "le revolution" somehow ever impossibly succeeded, it would result in far more death than some dead commies.

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 20:41:58 2020 No.14874592

>>14874534
>>14874534
"Most" meaning you. That was exactly my point. Thanks

Lol I guess I will have to make my sarcasm more obvious next time...

See, here is a prefect example of moving the goal posts. You were incorrect before, I showed that you were incorrect, but rather than admitting that, you're attempting to change what your original point even was.

Yeah, you've just proven you are weak. "Powerful" people are also weak. Requiring the government or others to live a fulfilled life makes one weak. You do not understand what it means to be strong, because you are weak.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 20:42:13 2020 No.14874593 >>14874190 >>14872356 I know "end of history " is a shitty meme but these days liberalism feels like the force of entropy itself. Nothing can stop it, no matter how productive we become some smug asshole will still defend homelessness as a necessity.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 20:42:36 2020 No.14874596 >>14872356 Ted Kaczynski

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 20:42:58 2020 No.14874598 >>14874516 Your snarky attitude reminds of a woman, I will now disregard your post

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 20:43:01 2020 No.14874601 >>14874548 Correct.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 20:45:23 2020 No.14874609 >>14874548 What you see in the streets are literally mentally ill, neither owning businesses nor working for any, and too crazy to even be in homeless shelters.

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 20:46:36 2020 No.14874614

>>14874567
I'm not going to kill you... whom every you attempt to dispossess will. I'm opposed to socialism because it's a violent ideology. You were already a violent person, you merely choose an ideology that would make you feel the most morally vindicated. Again, backwards thinking, you start with the conclusion, ie you want to be violent and steal, and work backwards to create excuses for that behavior.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 20:48:21 2020 No.14874622 >>14874578 Appeal to definition. Communism is everything that is good, capitalism is everything that's bad, we're not allowed to make arguments saying that communism might be back because it's already defined as everything that's good.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 20:50:10 2020 No.14874631 >>14874609 When i said streets i should've said something like welfare or poverty desu. I simply did it to hyperbolize it.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 20:50:43 2020 No.14874633 File: 69 KB, 720x696, Hnkxter.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14874614 >he thinks he stands a chance against an army of hardline socialist badasses Alright chud, see you on the frontlines

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 20:54:12 2020 No.14874646 >>14874622 Yes, and i definitely said all of that and not simply point out that the quote used was literally filled with lies and a use of terms that makes absolutely no sense. What an appeal to definition that was.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 21:00:50 2020 No.14874685 >>14874646 "lies" sure enough sign as any that one is completely intellectually bankrupt when they start identifying arguments as "lies." I do not give a fuck about your appeal to emotion, either.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 21:01:31 2020 No.14874690 File: 503 KB, 1200x815, 1541058675857.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14874633

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 21:06:04 2020 No.14874706

>>14874685
Oh yes, the fact that your current system is neither close to being socialist nor owning everything is a real appeal to emotion. And the fact that the goverment owns it clearly means the workers have power over their workforce as according to literally no one.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 21:11:29 2020 No.14874720 File: 683 KB, 1080x1021, 20200311_181045.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14874690 Brave, stunning, and intimidating!

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 21:11:56 2020 No.14874722

>>14872987
In theory, that’s how it works. In practice, it doesn’t. Every industrialized country in the world places restrictions on the labor market, which effectively act as price floors or help employers to form cartels to collude against labor. If you don’t want to work 40 hours a week, you’d be hard pressed to find a job working less than that which earns a livable wage despite the fact that your productivity would’ve produced the wage in question several times over in far less than 40 hours and the 40 hour work week is not a function of supply and demand.

>>14873174
It’s more like being locked in a hotel hallway with multiple rooms all similarly filled with varying degrees of shit and piss and being told to be grateful that you can enter or exit any room that you please, but yeah.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 21:15:58 2020 No.14874731 >>14874722 >your productivity

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 21:17:25 2020 No.14874738

>>14874706
A single corporate entity owns everything. The state. That is socialism.

The workers don't have power in socialism. The democracy that the workers are forced to participate in has power. Power is centralized, individuals are dispossessed, and non complience is rewarded with either alienation or death.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 21:20:26 2020 No.14874752 >>14874722 The world looks like shit because your world is shit. Jobs are hard to find because you have problems finding jobs. You are projecting your own awful life onto the world, where almost everyone is happy and sucsessful.

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 21:23:10 2020 No.14874768

>>14874274
I am basically referring to a homestead but I don’t know what you mean by retired homesteading. I don’t think you need to be retired or exceedingly wealthy to homestead. I’m not saying you definitely wouldn’t have to work, but even a relatively small purchase of land could afford you a certain degree of self sufficiency that you might not have to work for someone else very much, if at all. Of course, it still does require a tremendous amount of work on your own behalf. Why do you think that’s not feasible exactly?

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 21:23:10 2020 No.14874769 >>14874738 >Literally ignoring everysingle point that was made Literally wasting your time.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 21:24:19 2020 No.14874772 >>14872876 >So, who would clean toilets in communism? how will marxism ever recover from this post

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 21:26:25 2020 No.14874778

>>14874752
>You are projecting your own awful life onto the world, where almost everyone is happy and sucsessful.
Oh yes? I would like you to see you prove that when you have now more depression and people taking happy pills than ever, not to mention the amount of them that live paycheck to paycheck and how the cost of living with things like rent is going up and wages literally staying the same.

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 21:27:42 2020 No.14874781

>>14874752
I’m gainfully employed in a job that many would consider desirable relatively speaking. Come back to reality. Jobs suck. That’s just reality.

> the world, where almost everyone is happy and successful

Come out from under your rock sometime.

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 21:31:34 2020 No.14874797

>>14874731
Yes? What are you saying here? If you’re an employee and are productive that is productivity produced by you. That’s your productivity just like the work you do is your work. Companies might treat employees as operating expenses only in practice but they don’t make revenue without sales people or engineers.

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 21:35:19 2020 No.14874820

>>14874778
And? I don't think things are prefect, of course not, but that's the governments fault, not private property. The state takes at least 50% of income, if not more. A business takes 1%, or less. How are you so brain dead you can't see your solution IS THE FUCKING PROBLEM.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 21:36:28 2020 No.14874828 >>14874781 Your job sucks. It doesn't matter how much it pays, you don't like it. Stop projecting. Come out from under your rock sometime.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 21:48:00 2020 No.14874873 >>14874820 >but that's the governments fault, not private property At the higher levels these are basically the same anon come on.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 21:48:02 2020 No.14874874 >>14874828 Not him, but I like my job. I'm shitposting from work right now while my HPLCs are running.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 21:56:17 2020 No.14874919 >>14874873 Not at all. Private property requires the state not existing.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 21:57:20 2020 No.14874926 >>14874874 One of the worst things about communism is how you would not be allowed to slack off at your job.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 21:57:35 2020 No.14874927 >>14872987 I agree, which is why workers should organize in order to extract more wealth from their employers.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 21:58:37 2020 No.14874933 >>14874752 so glad you boomers are going to be killed by a virus developed by the very chinks you paid pennies to produce worthless plastic goods

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 21:58:50 2020 No.14874934 >>14872987 I'm free to starve to death or die of cancer sweet

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 22:11:37 2020 No.14874991 >>14874934 Well you sound mentally disabled, so you can also go on welfare.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 22:14:50 2020 No.14875005 >>14874919 Any property beyond what you can carry on your back only exists because of the state.

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 22:15:36 2020 No.14875008

>>14874926
Although that's true, many parts of my job have become automated.
So when some commiecuck goes "UHHH, BUT WAGES HAVEN'T INCREASED WITH PRODUCTIVITY", it's not because somehow people are working harder than ever, productivity increased with technological developments that have made almost every job significantly easier.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 22:16:38 2020 No.14875013 >>14875005 That's both wrong and retarded.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 01:45:22 2020 No.14875715 >>14874646 Are you a homosexual by any chance? your cadence in every post is very vaginal

Anonymous Thu Mar 12 02:27:43 2020 No.14875836

>>14872987
>just ignore all the other complicated factors that a child could figure out including in many cases straight up coercion by threat of unemployment
you lose all credibility when you make yourself a retard for ideological confirmation, rather for the profit of men who think you little better than a slave to be conveniently prodded around by their control of state, industry, and mass media. i will never work for anyone but myself. you are a cuck.

Anonymous Thu Mar 12 02:35:24 2020 No.14875851

>>14873194
Yes they do you dumb cunt. I'm sure many 'communists' have no idea, that's true, but plenty know exactly what steps to take. The problem is they do not have the power to take these steps and even if they did I doubt it would go down well. Mass media smear campaign and neoliberal sabotage, legal or otherwise.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 02:36:44 2020 No.14875856 >>14874927 Why not just extract wealth from each other? Why not extract from others? Why not just become the state?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 02:37:55 2020 No.14875857 >>14875856 uhh because the state is a completely different entity and amounts to the formal front for war against workers. whereas workers organising to work towards their interests is completely different in purpose and structure.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 02:37:57 2020 No.14875858 >>14874933 I'm 30... The generation in their 20s are even more conservative and red pilled on socialisms shitness than me.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 02:38:58 2020 No.14875862 >>14875005 Sure a state could steal from me. That's why we get rid of the state.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 02:40:41 2020 No.14875865 >>14875836 >. i will never work for anyone but myself. But you support socialism... Haven't really thought that one out, have you?

Anonymous Thu Mar 12 02:40:48 2020 No.14875866

>>14872356
>doing menial bullshit that we really don’t want to do

This is the core of the problem. There is still a minimum amount of work a society requires to function, but this has been falling as our technology replaces human workers. As it stands, our societies are built on majority disinterested workers whose contribution to the necessities of life are nil. Meanwhile, problems like absent parents, medical, housing, and tuition fees etc. create a demand that is already falling short of supply in most countries, leading to people fighting for scraps in a gig economy.

UBI and price control to guarantee a safety net of shelter and sustenance would free so many people from this retarded system. The knock-on effects on social issues like absent parents, economic family strains, mental health in general (that also massively impacts homelessness) would be transformative.

Anonymous Thu Mar 12 02:41:19 2020 No.14875867

>>14872496

>life is shit and there's nothing you can do to better our situation

Fucking brainlets, you're the ones who are lazy, you'd rather just endlessly wageslave than fight to change the existential condition. Life is SHIT because people are shit, and they're offended by change

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 02:42:54 2020 No.14875869 >>14875851 Here are all the steps you need to take: https://youtu.be/gABJ5j4i9Kk

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 02:44:04 2020 No.14875872 >>14875857 Nah both are just a violent gang that impose their will on others.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 02:45:21 2020 No.14875875 >>14875867 Again, YOUR life is shit.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 05:17:13 2020 No.14876192 I thought people on this board were educated and sensible. This whole thread is nothing but shit slinging from every side. I'm honestly disappointed.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 05:31:59 2020 No.14876232 >>14875715 Yes i am very gay and suck a lot of cocks on a daily basis anon. You got me there.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 05:35:47 2020 No.14876240 >>14874820 >Look at me talking about a bunch of shit that i have no clue about What country are you even talking about anon?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 05:50:05 2020 No.14876266 >>14876240 Do you know what "income tax" is?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 06:03:04 2020 No.14876293 >>14876266 Yes. You know what my question is?

Anonymous Thu Mar 12 06:13:27 2020 No.14876321

>>14872356
Man, Socrates was put to death because he implored people to think of their virture before their material benefits, this was already like 2419 years ago.
>Literally all I want is to live in a comfy cottage in the countryside, away from most technology, spending my time reading and building up a garden and fishing and pursuing my creative interests
Why though? Do you just want to consoom in peace?

Anonymous Thu Mar 12 06:21:06 2020 No.14876349
File: 2.86 MB, 3543x2116, 1583252981240.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I just don't want my work to be the main concern of my life.
I don't want it to be the thing I spent the most time of my life on.
I want that time to go into my future wife and children, my hobbies and interests, stuff that fulfils me and makes me grow as a person.
If work isn't doing that for me, I don't want to spend that much time on it.

In earlier times people were way more independant.
They owned their jobs.
A farmer could provide for himself for the most part and only had to pay some taxes to his lord for protection.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 06:24:27 2020 No.14876353 >>14876293 If you understand what income tax is, you would understand that the country in question doesn't matter whether it's 30% or 80%, because income tax always completely dwarfs whatever "le surplus labor" bullshit you're talking about.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 06:24:41 2020 No.14876354 >>14876321 >building up a garden and fishing how is that consooming?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 06:29:09 2020 No.14876369 >>14872515 Nigger slaves

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 06:34:08 2020 No.14876379 >>14874135 he mostly talks about the misery of work life and how it even affects what you do in your free time, it's relevant to most people, at least. much more relevant than the garbage most people write about and try to get you to care about.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 06:46:07 2020 No.14876408 >>14876354 Were you born just to eat fish and plant vegetables? That's it?

Anonymous Thu Mar 12 06:56:57 2020 No.14876436

>>14872356
Yeah, even the Ancient Romans thought wage labor was tantamount to slavery. I specifically recall a passage from Cicero on it. Don't believe the capitalists who say any alternative would be worse or that men have always spent their time slaving away. Farmers throughout much of the world had months out of every year filled with leisure time. American workers are lucky to get 10 days off in a year.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 07:06:58 2020 No.14876465 >>14873335 Have you heard of Stockholm syndrome?

Anonymous Thu Mar 12 07:12:28 2020 No.14876479

>>14874797
>If you’re an employee and are productive that is productivity produced by you.
Actually in the vast majority of cases these days, an employee's productivity has a decreasing amount to do with them. A cashier who can check out 600% more people an hour doesn't accomplish this by working 600% harder, the company accomplished this by switching to automatic checkout machines, while the cashier sits there with their dick in their hands.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 07:17:22 2020 No.14876489 >>14876465 >having a job makes you a victim sympathizing with your abuser Do you people ever stop at any point and listen to yourselves?

Anonymous Thu Mar 12 07:53:33 2020 No.14876575

>>14874614
You don't have a clue about our mental mindset. Violence is exerted now by the Capitalist society. From soft violence in school, (school is indeed brainwashing) and wageslave, to hard violence throught repression, (again recently: yellow vests).
Yet when some want a mode of production without private property of the means of production and wage labor, they are the violent ones.
If this is not typical projection, i don't know what that is.
>>14874772
Everybody you retard. You post is full of ego and disdain from the lower socio professional workers, and yet you present yourself as the moral figure.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 08:05:23 2020 No.14876614 >>14876575 (...)By the way stop at once thinking we are related to Bolsheviks, Mao, Castro, or whatever dictatorship you conveniently use to discredit us.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 08:07:07 2020 No.14876620 Literally just don't work then. If you're in the first world you aren't going to starve if you choose not to so you have no excuse.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 08:10:01 2020 No.14876626 >>14876436 >I specifically recall a passage from Cicero on it. Cicero specifies "unskilled wage labour" to distinguish workers from officials, but yea.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 08:23:19 2020 No.14876643 >>14876408 Convenient to forget the “pursuing my creative interests” part. You also miss the forest for the trees, he’s got a desire for self sufficiency not to eat food by himself you retard.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 08:27:35 2020 No.14876650 >>14874579 >because if the "le revolution" somehow ever impossibly succeeded Who talked about a violent armed revolution? The first revolution to have is a revolution of the mind.

Anonymous Thu Mar 12 08:27:52 2020 No.14876652

>>14876349
This post is completely ridiculous. You don't spend most of your time working, you spend a third of a day at work and are free to do whatever you want with the other 2/3rds plus weekends.

You are such a sheltered faggot, do you not realize you don't need to be some fantasy cowboy to 'own your job'? What kind of business do you want to own? Why don't you have a business plan telling you how much you need to save?

Is that too much work for you? Then fuck off, you don't want 'work to not be the main concern of my life", you want a life handed to you that you never have to think or put any effort towards.

Got damn you all are the fucking same, wishing to steal a future from someone else but when pressed you don't actually have any idea what you want to do

Anonymous Thu Mar 12 08:27:59 2020 No.14876653
File: 309 KB, 967x611, WIL_at_DNC_protest_-_Socialist_Appeal_United_States.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>14876575
Genuine question, do you think you people are capable of a real revolution? Being well versed in theory and violent uprising are two different things, internet socialists seem to be just as LARPy as nazis

Anonymous Thu Mar 12 08:28:47 2020 No.14876657

>>14876408
That's not what I said.
How does what I am born for have to do with what I stated?
If you're planting vegetables, you're creating not consooming for example.
People who only consoom are lazy pieces of shit, but OP doesn't seem to be that since he listed things that aren't only consooming.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 08:34:28 2020 No.14876673 >>14872356 Why does he write like that? It sounds retarded.

Anonymous Thu Mar 12 08:50:14 2020 No.14876719
File: 170 KB, 645x729, communistbrain.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>14872356
1. Marxism is a valid critique with a shitty solution

>Literally all I want is to live in a comfy cottage in the countryside, away from most technology

2. Good for you that you want away from most and not all technology. Go join a wilderness commune or join the amish

Anonymous Thu Mar 12 10:36:15 2020 No.14877042

>>14876653
The first revolution is a revolution of the mind. Acknowledging that Capitalism is a bad way to produce.
>2. Good for you that you want away from most and not all technology. Go join a wilderness commune or join the amish
The thing is, since amish are small communities, they can't have the same total workforce as the world under Capitalism. Thus what they accomplish will always be smaller. An entire world out of Capitalism could still produce great things.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 10:41:03 2020 No.14877060 >>14877042 >The thing is, since amish are small communities, they can't have the same total workforce as the world under Capitalism. Thus what they accomplish will always be smaller. And? How does that dissuade someone from joining a small community?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 10:51:47 2020 No.14877095 >>14877042 >revolution of the mind Lol what comes after, are you going to overthrow the government with positive energy? At some point you have to graduate from being an effete daydreamer

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 10:52:25 2020 No.14877098 >>14877042 Why would you want to produce "great things"? Living in a small cottage is better, you don't need "great things" for that.

Anonymous Thu Mar 12 11:02:32 2020 No.14877133

>>14877060
>And? How does that dissuade someone from joining a small community?
They should go for it, it's much "woke" than being a wage-slave chasing the latest iphone in a megacity. Still, it's frustrating because you can't make something like electronics in such small communities.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 11:05:03 2020 No.14877137 >>14877133 Why would somebody need to make electronics? It seems there's a fundamental disconnect between wanting to 'get away' while selecting communities based on their ability to replicate the environment you're trying to get away from

Anonymous Thu Mar 12 11:27:01 2020 No.14877218

>>14877137
True, but electronics are cool for spreading information on an horizontal level. Without the internet, we go back to having centralized people and medias to spread information. That's bad. The internet is, with surgery, the only thing of worth coming from modernity.

Anonymous Thu Mar 12 11:33:18 2020 No.14877235

>>14877218
But you don't need to spread information on a horizontal level, you're a part of a small community now. You won't need to give a shit what's happening in Europe when the biggest going on of your life is helping your community and raising your family.

There is a disconnect. You want the internet, you want electronics manufacturing, you want to continue to carry the whole world on your shoulders. You'll never get away from it because it's not a societal problem it's a you problem.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 11:36:39 2020 No.14877245 >>14872356 you'll have to invent another game then, a “better”, more intense one...

Anonymous Thu Mar 12 11:57:08 2020 No.14877316

>>14872356
The sad part is even people here are brainwashed into thinking humanity will always have to work to keep society going. We're on the cusp of having technology perform all menial work for us so that all of humanity can focus on what actually matters like scientific research, medical, etc. Think about how fast humanity would progress if we could educate the majority of humans to work on actual progress instead of pointless busywork. We don't need millions of copies of sofas available at all times for purchase, it's pointless to waste these resources. We don't need millions of iphones being produced with planned obsolescence built into the design, it just pointless wasting. We need to progress past this game of consumerism. We have the technology to do so and the longer we fuck around the more humanity will suffer as a whole instead of coming together.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 11:58:39 2020 No.14877321 >>14877316 And what about those who are too stupid to research? Have you ever had a job before? Do you know how completely useless people can be?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 12:00:31 2020 No.14877329 I like technology, and the price of that is work. So I work.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 12:05:40 2020 No.14877357 >>14877235 Perhaps. I envisioned farming manually, without using machines, but still using a computer and internet. Maybe i should let that go one day. I know it's satanic, but still...

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 12:05:43 2020 No.14877358 >>14876349 > A farmer could provide for himself for the most part and only had to pay some taxes to his lord for protection. How is that any different than paying 1% to a capitalist?

Anonymous Thu Mar 12 12:10:59 2020 No.14877392

>>14876575
You count people not giving you stuff and not listening to your orders as violence. That's how monsters, like you, have been justifying their actions since the beginning of time. It's just an excuse, even if you get what you want, and in many cases you already have, or can without effecting others, you'd continue the violence. I can comment to your mental state, because of what people like you have done once they've came to power.

Anonymous Thu Mar 12 12:11:25 2020 No.14877393

>>14877357
If you have a computer and internet you're going to resent the amount of time you'll spend doing work you know nothing about how hard it is when you could get a steady job, research homesteading and how much you need to save before it's something you can do.

Sitting here dreaming about it is one thing, but have you done any research in to what a self-sustaining homestead/farm entails? Why would you want to use manual machines when a tractor exists? What happens when your plow horse gets sick and you need to suddenly fork out the money for a vet or a new horse? Seems like it'd be easier to have a tractor while learning how to machine/repair.

You don't need to get away from society to make your dreams come true, you just need to work for it and actually start making progress toward it.

What research have you done on farming? What experience do you have with it? You can start blacksmithing as a hobby for $100 and still be as productive for your community as the farmer reliant on your tools

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 12:13:33 2020 No.14877403 >>14877042 Yeah capitalism is a bad way to produce... because it's just a form of socialism... collective effort in every sense is the problem, economic or political or social, collective effort is the problem...

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 12:16:15 2020 No.14877419 >>14877042 > An entire world out of Capitalism could still produce great things. Yeah you want to rule over everyone, not only yourself, we already knew that.

Anonymous Thu Mar 12 12:17:24 2020 No.14877425

>>14877358
Because you're paying for everything, not only for protection.
You're paying for food, necessities, services, etc... because you can't provide anything for yourself except money, which is useless on its own, meaning you're very dependant on the system.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 12:20:47 2020 No.14877442 >>14877357 lol you're not strong enough to even bring the onions bottle to your mouth, who the fuck do you think you're fooling?

Anonymous Thu Mar 12 12:23:48 2020 No.14877452

>>14877425
But we have the system still, which means you can use the money you acquire to
>stockpile massive amounts of non-perishables
What if your lord decided not to feed you?
>purchase firearms for self defense
Do you think your lord would allow you to own a weapon capable of killing him outright?
>purchase precious metals
Paper money without a system is useless, yes. That's why you dedicate a portion of your earnings in useless paper money to acquire real metal currency. And when the government comes and says you need to turn in your gold as they have before you then take out your previously purchased firearms and kill the enforcers. You'll likely die, but same as you would under a lord only now I can buy a nice fake rubber ass/pussy combo God bless the system

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 12:30:14 2020 No.14877481 >>14877392 Radical Marxist are against power, all powers...

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 12:34:03 2020 No.14877496 File: 239 KB, 1024x683, Marxist.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14877357 These are the people larping as agrarians on 4chan

Anonymous Thu Mar 12 12:35:22 2020 No.14877499

>>14877393
>What research have you done on farming?
None except simple gardening.
>Seems like it'd be easier to have a tractor while learning how to machine/repair.
Perhaps but then we are back on track toward the machine world. Machines require more machines. It's almost inevitable.

Anonymous Thu Mar 12 12:37:55 2020 No.14877507

>>14877425
A system that produces it cheaper and with more verity than otherwise... if you were some random farmer you couldn't produce "necessities" or "services" you would still have to trade for them...

Next time when you're wrong, just say "oh yeah you're right" than what you did.

Anonymous Thu Mar 12 12:38:40 2020 No.14877511

>>14877499
That's where being part of the community comes in as well, same with hoping a vet is around, you could have someone else you know do the repairs on the tractor.

But like we've already said this is a pipe dream of yours, let's say you stuck with society and didn't go be a farmer. What kind of business would you like to own some day?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 12:39:15 2020 No.14877516 >>14877481 The collective is a power... you either work for the collective or starve...

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 12:40:16 2020 No.14877523 >>14877511 > What kind of business would you like to own some day? He doesn't. He wants you to give him whatever he needs.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 12:41:21 2020 No.14877528 >>14877523 I know but I have a feeling this is a commie still in his formative years and I might be able to sway him away from thinking he's just a helpless fish

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 12:50:50 2020 No.14877564 >>14877511 No businesses for sure. I don't like money.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 12:54:38 2020 No.14877581 >>14877528 Why? Whatever that is wrong with his brain that makes him believe in socialism won't change. It's a genetic problem. And it's self correcting, anyhow, he's not going to reproduce.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 12:57:02 2020 No.14877590 >>14877528 Don't worry i'm far from being helpless. I'm like a star gladiator who wants to abolish pit fights that's it. If you know what i mean.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 12:58:11 2020 No.14877596 >>14877564 Do you have any hobbies or passions?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 13:00:14 2020 No.14877609 >>14877581 >he's not going to reproduce. I thought the more capitalistic the place, the less reproduction happens... See megacities and strong independant women.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 13:00:48 2020 No.14877613 >>14877596 His hobbies are wanting to control others...

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 13:01:17 2020 No.14877617 >>14877596 Reading, gardening...

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 13:02:08 2020 No.14877624 >>14877617 How about operating a nursery?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 13:03:12 2020 No.14877629 >>14877624 What for?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 13:04:47 2020 No.14877638 >>14877629 So you can apply your passions towards something that allows you to be self-sufficient without having to become a farmer. How do you currently pay for your food?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 13:09:12 2020 No.14877660 >>14877638 That's a little dox related... You don't seem to understand exactly... I'm thriving in Capitalism, i just want an other world that's it. It's pretty obvious that it's fucked up. Thanks for your help anyway.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 13:13:26 2020 No.14877679 >>14877609 Megacities and feminists are socialist...

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 13:13:59 2020 No.14877681 >>14877660 How is that dox related? Do you work for your own food, do your parents pay for your food, the government?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 13:14:30 2020 No.14877683 >>14877638 His parents feed him. He requires someone to put the spoon in his mouth.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 13:21:32 2020 No.14877709 >>14877679 >Megacities and feminists are socialist... I had some doubts, now it's clear, you are a complete retard. >>14877681 I don't need money, whatever the reason. Thanks for your help if it was sincere. Going to the gym.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 13:22:13 2020 No.14877712 File: 74 KB, 500x334, tedy.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14872356 yes

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 13:24:09 2020 No.14877722 >>14877581 Turns out you were right

Anonymous Thu Mar 12 13:27:28 2020 No.14877737

>>14873007
the western world has for some time now been in a stage of progress in which it would be entirely feasible for all citizens to live a life of (mostly) effortless (relative) luxury if resources were reasonably distributed instead of hoarded by a microscopic elite.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 13:29:09 2020 No.14877741 >>14877709 Yeah, I know, everything that is good is socialism and everything that is bad is capitalism. Of course of course.

Anonymous Thu Mar 12 13:57:33 2020 No.14877848

>>14876652
>Got damn you all are the fucking same

>You don't spend most of your time working, you spend a third of a day at work and are free to do whatever you want with the other 2/3rds plus weekends.
>You are such a sheltered faggot, do you not realize you don't need to be some fantasy cowboy to 'own your job'? What kind of business do you want to own? Why don't you have a business plan telling you how much you need to save?
>Then fuck off, you don't want 'work to not be the main concern of my life", you want a life handed to you that you never have to think or put any effort towards.

your post could have been written by a boomer algorithm, wake up you insect

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 13:58:56 2020 No.14877853 >>14877321 then don't impose selection pressures on a society based on how well they can innovate Apple's product line for the upcoming fiscal quarter you miserable fucking golem, fuck your cult of utility

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 13:59:28 2020 No.14877856 >>14877848 Wahhhh why can't I live the life of royalty wahhh I dedicate my entire life focusing on things others have that I don't wahhh

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 14:02:27 2020 No.14877867 >>14877856 >I have to project base hedonistic motives on everyone criticizing the system or I might have a faggot meltdown literal borgperson

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 14:03:57 2020 No.14877878 >>14877867 Chillax Bernie it's called personal responsibility, sorry you can't live in dream land but you can try lucid dreaming

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 14:11:02 2020 No.14877897 >>14877878 now go preach the virtues of personal responsibility to the top 1% fuckwit

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 14:11:12 2020 No.14877898 File: 49 KB, 720x405, 18a18da8f04f92a47ea80633071b94cd_w720_h500.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14877867 No one wants to fund your pipe dreams you fucking faggot

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 14:14:26 2020 No.14877915 >>14877898 No one wants to fund your faggot toys either, but here we are

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 14:17:00 2020 No.14877921 >>14872356 read david icke for redpill read self improvement and pick one of the predefined political teams (left/right) for a bluepill

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 14:19:24 2020 No.14877934 >>14877898 It's nice to know that I could beat any of them in a fist fight

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 14:26:20 2020 No.14877953 >>14877897 Even the top 1% still go to work

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 14:38:06 2020 No.14877983 File: 95 KB, 777x516, Marxists.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14877915 Toys?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 14:48:30 2020 No.14878027 >>14872367 t. slave

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 15:07:23 2020 No.14878115 >>14877712 was it autism?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 16:21:25 2020 No.14878403 >>14872356 This is wrong, find a skill to win at. Play the game to win. What else is there to do. You'll still be able to walk dogs and fuck and all that good stuff

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 16:21:55 2020 No.14878405 File: 246 KB, 2048x1400, 1579906575857.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14874820 You're like 14 aren't ya? I was an anarcho-capitalist once. Worked well until I realized I was prostate milking my ego, and real world expectations came in.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 16:27:57 2020 No.14878423 >>14873182 You are one dense motherfucker.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 16:37:24 2020 No.14878453 >>14872946 > The Australian Aborigines’ treatment of their women was nothing short of abominable I don’t like his feminist attitude. Fuck women

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 16:37:33 2020 No.14878454 >>14874752 > where almost everyone is happy and sucsessful. Don’t make me laugh you fuckin cuck

Anonymous Thu Mar 12 16:59:29 2020 No.14878575

>>14877898
>>14877934
Oh they are like you, they still believe in political economy. BTW, you are their mirror. If someone talk about immigration to them, they'll scream fascism, triggered by a pavlovian reflex. But you obey to the exact same mechanisms. Indeed, when someone criticize Capitalism, immediately, you have a pavlovian reflex to scream Holodomar, starving, gulags etc...
You are really on the same level as them, and trapped into political economy.
Honestly, on 4chan, in 2020, it's pathetic. You are the garbage of this website.
These little wars about political economy were cool until 2014, now it's very, very stale.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 17:27:33 2020 No.14878724 >>14878405 Thanks for confirming how hideous commies are.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 17:28:36 2020 No.14878729 >>14878454 Not. An. Argument.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 17:29:31 2020 No.14878732 >>14878575 Your repeated use of political economy gas convinced me of your opinion

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 17:29:48 2020 No.14878736 >>14878575 I've literally said capitalism is just a form of socialism about a hundred times now...

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 17:30:33 2020 No.14878737 >>14878575 based.

Anonymous Thu Mar 12 17:32:00 2020 No.14878745

>>14878729
There was no argument to refute, just an assertion, you fucking brainlet

>>14878732
he's absolutely right and you 1 OR 2? WHAT? WHICH IS IT? IT HAS TO BE 1 OR 2. WHICH IS IT? WHAT? IT HAS TO BE 1 OR 2? WHICH IS IT? WHAT? KEK KEK KEK faggots need to eat buckshot already

Anonymous Thu Mar 12 17:32:47 2020 No.14878752

>>14872356
>Does any philosopher except Marx address the utterly depressing fact that all of us have to spend the majority of our time working for a salary

Austrian economists do. But in a way that requires initiative. You're looking for the wrong teachers in Marxists. Marxists are losers.

Do you wanna be a loser too?
Then learn from marxists.

Anonymous Thu Mar 12 17:36:07 2020 No.14878764

>>14878575
What an idiotic post.
>Indeed, when someone criticize Capitalism, immediately, you have a pavlovian reflex to scream Holodomar, starving, gulags etc...
Because that is unironically the solution that is given to the hypothetical endgame of capitalism.
In response to the hypothetical eventual scenario where there only exists one single corporation that owns everything on the planet, your unironic solution is to skip straight to making that single corporate entity the global communist state.
The sheer fucking horror of having to live under communism at a country-wide level would be inflicted on the entire world. Instead of your usual mass starvation under communism, they would be extinction-level events, because there would be no one else left to bail out failed communist policies.

Anonymous Thu Mar 12 17:49:21 2020 No.14878807

>>14878764
>In response to the hypothetical eventual scenario where there only exists one single corporation that owns everything on the planet, your unironic solution is to skip straight to making that single corporate entity the global communist state.
>global communist state
What the fuck are you even doing on /lit? I won't even argue, people who have read know why.

Anonymous Thu Mar 12 18:01:50 2020 No.14878865

>>14878807
Just because you call it "the people's republic of working people workers" doesn't mean it magically stops being a state, the same way communists annexing other countries doesn't stop being imperialism just because you call it "le revolution".

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 18:03:12 2020 No.14878872 >>14872356 Seneca, De Brevitate Vitae

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 18:07:40 2020 No.14878890 >>14872356 Then do it. Varg does it. You can get away if you have the skills. If you dont, you dont deserve the life or the right to complain about it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 18:09:20 2020 No.14878895 File: 670 KB, 1164x1200, leftypol.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Why are leftists always like this?

Anonymous Thu Mar 12 18:16:19 2020 No.14878923

>>14878865
The fact that you are helpless to abolish the State doesn't mean that no solution will be found. There must be other way to organize production than relying on a State. Amish and Hutterites, already mentioned in this thread, are a living proof of it.

Anonymous Thu Mar 12 18:18:29 2020 No.14878931

>>14873184
Which is fucking retarded. Why would you make an engineer shovel shit instead of having him do engineering. 15% of the population have an IQ under 85. They aren't fucking reading a cookbook properly, engineering be damned. In fact, having an engineer shovel shit deprives someone of limited intellectual capacity from productively contributing to society.

90% of engineers are going to be smarter than average, and that bottom ten percent lagging behind are probably autists without the verbal IQ to score well.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 18:19:12 2020 No.14878935 >>14878923 >There must be other way to organize production than relying on a State. Yeah, it's called "capitalism".

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 18:20:20 2020 No.14878941 >>14878895 Here we go, the usual retard who tries to polarize the debate around political economy. Recently, your strategy to push toward political economy is a little less successful, how does it feel?

Anonymous Thu Mar 12 18:22:55 2020 No.14878951

>>14878931
The thing you have to understand about communists is that they have absolutely no conception of different types of job skills.
To them, everything from astrophysicists to McDonald's cashiers are identical, because their entire concept of work is "PUSH BUTTON: MAKE MONEY FOR PORKEY".
This is because most of them have never had a job before.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 18:23:31 2020 No.14878952 >>14878931 And why are they engineer, when 15% of the population have an IQ under 85, isn't it, perhaps, because of the class based society?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 18:47:26 2020 No.14879048 >>14872356 8 hour a day 5 days a week for 40ish years >majority of our time guess marx couldn't fucking count

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 18:55:16 2020 No.14879091 >>14872360 >bootlicker bootlicker >bootlicker bootlicker

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 19:00:01 2020 No.14879121 >>14879048 I think he meant functional time. Like, you aren't going to go canoeing at 3 am and if you're a paddler at heart it pretty much does take up your time.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 19:01:14 2020 No.14879130 File: 3.89 MB, 200x200, mcmahon reaction gif.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14872360

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 19:02:28 2020 No.14879138 >>14873316 permaculture don't real

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 19:04:03 2020 No.14879143 File: 79 KB, 672x737, 1537968415760.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14873439 >This is when humans will truly begin to travel throughout space. Lol that's what you think

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 19:08:46 2020 No.14879159 communism is when you have doctors and engineers shovel shit t. Marx

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 19:17:49 2020 No.14879196 >>14878745 You didn't present an argument, that's why I said not an argument. An assertion is not an argument.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 19:18:52 2020 No.14879203 >>14878752 > Do you wanna be a loser too? He does.

Anonymous Thu Mar 12 19:21:28 2020 No.14879219

>>14878764
Communism is probably the Great Filter. Civilizations that get trapped by it never escape their gravity well. I wish I had saved, but oh boy I've read some threads on commie subreddits about how we shouldn't explore space. These people have a real problem with being alive.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 19:22:38 2020 No.14879221 >>14879219 >duuuude spaaaaaaaaace lord save me from this cringe

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 19:23:53 2020 No.14879226 >>14878895 Leftism is a genetic disorder.

Anonymous Thu Mar 12 19:26:04 2020 No.14879238

>>14878923
> The fact that you are helpless to abolish the State doesn't mean that no solution will be found.

He was pointing out how socialism would just replace the state with another state... Anarchists do have a solution for abolishing the state...

Both those groups you mentioned formed their only little states...

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 19:27:32 2020 No.14879244 >>14878952 > And why are they engineer, when 15% of the population have an IQ under 85, isn't it, perhaps, because of the class based society? Do you have an IQ below 85?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 19:28:36 2020 No.14879248 >>14879221 Thanks for proving my point.

Anonymous Thu Mar 12 19:36:02 2020 No.14879297

>>14879238
>Both those groups you mentioned formed their only little states
You cannot say Huterrites, Amish and such communities form little states. In a State, you have a police, tribunals, taxes, military, very complex and empowered authorities.
Unironically, Huterrites are much closer to a barbarian clan than to a State. Some interesting point i noticed, they political organization of Huterrites is close to native indian clans.
A State is particular, because the authority is completely cut from the people, which is not the case with elders in Hutterian brethen.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 20:46:12 2020 No.14879582 >>14879297 >A State is particular, because the authority is completely cut from the people In communism, yes.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 20:49:13 2020 No.14879595 >>14879582 All States are cut from the people you retard. By the way, i just read recently the Critique of the Gotha program, it's pretty clear that Marx is anti-Statist.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 20:58:40 2020 No.14879641 >>14872356 Bullshit Jobs by David Graeber addresses a specific contemporary problem that's only kind of related to what you're asking, but it's a recent and interesting read.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 22:05:41 2020 No.14879905 >>14879297 I do not give a shit about your appeal to definition. Make an argument or get fucked.

Anonymous Thu Mar 12 22:07:52 2020 No.14879911

>>14879595
All socialists are statist, they just name the state something else. The state is any entity that, in effect, "has legal monopoly on the force of violence in order to enforce the social contract." Under communist oppression, something would prevent people from having private property, whatever that thing is, is the state. Call it whatever you want, it doesn't change the nature of the thing.

Anonymous Thu Mar 12 22:13:51 2020 No.14879938

>>14879641
Name one. Please. Name one. If someone is willing to pay for a service, than that job is not bullshit. You or someone might not like such and such a job, but, all that means is that that opinion informs your choice to take such and such job.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 22:14:42 2020 No.14879941 >>14879911 >Under communist oppression, something would prevent people from having private property According to Marx, that would be dictatorship of the proletariat. Are you afraid of the proletariat anon? I am not.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 22:15:56 2020 No.14879949 >>14879938 >If someone is willing to pay for a service, than that job is not bullshit. Belle Delphine is that you?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 22:17:20 2020 No.14879952 >>14879941 Then communism is a dictatorship of the proletariat, and Marx is still a retard.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 12 22:27:32 2020 No.14879986 >>14879952 At least the first part of the sentence is correct, for once.

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