/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.14847452]

How to choose a Buddhist school?

[Anonymous No.14847460]

>>14847452
Everything Mahayana is a Hindu concoction that only distantly resembles the teachings of the Buddha so you can scratch that.
Oops that only leaves Theravada.
Glad I could be useful.

[Anonymous No.14847500]

>>14847460
>Oops that only leaves Theravada.
What about Tibetian, Vajrayana, Shaolin and Zen

[Anonymous No.14847510]

>>14847500
All Mahayana spin-offs.

[Anonymous No.14847527]

>>14847510
and ALL mahayana is gay globohomo buddhism?

[Anonymous No.14847555]

>>14847527
No I wouldn’t say they are “gay”, they’re late syncretistic religions far removed from what the Buddha taught. Wouldn’t you want to know and practice what the Buddha taught? Since you want to convert to a religion called Buddh-ism? The Pali canon has the oldest texts that may contain actual discourses of the Buddha, and only Theravada accepts it (exclusively) as canon.

[Anonymous No.14847577]

>>14847555
To give an analogy with Christianity Mahayana would be as if some Christian church used medieval legends about saints such as Saint George slaying the dragon as their holy texts and called those who used the gospels and Paul’s epistles as the “lesser vehicle”, whereas Theravada would be something more like Nicean Christianity.

[Anonymous No.14847640]

>>14847577
So how do Mahayanas rationalize doing this

[Anonymous No.14847699]

Go to your nearest temples and find a teacher you resonate with. Chances are they have a school they can teach you in, or can point you to teachers who can.

[Anonymous No.14847707]

>>14847452
Tibetan is the best.

[Anonymous No.14847716]

>>14847460

>Everything Mahayana is a Hindu concoction that only distantly resembles the teachings of the Buddha so you can scratch that.

So the Prajnaparamita sutras aren't the teachings of the Buddha? Why not?

>guessed answer: written down later

All Buddhism was an oral lineage, just because your guys picked up a pen and palm leaf earlier doesn't make their sutras more valid.

>possible other answer: differences between sutras

There are contradictions within Pali sutras too, which are explained by your copmmentaries, and which themselves reference Upaya. Same as ours.

[Anonymous No.14847814]

>>14847452
exoteric buddhism if you're commited to being a monk, esoteric if you're a layman, so you can get initiation without being a monk.

[Anonymous No.14847896]

TIANTAI

[Anonymous No.14848572]

>>14847452
it's all BS just pick whichever sounds the coolest

[Anonymous No.14848760]

>>14847452
start your own

[Anonymous No.14848907]

>>14847452

Every westerner materialist nihilist r/buddhism style person I ever met sings the praises of Theravada for being the "totally atheistic philosophical" Buddhism.

For that reason alone you should go with anything but Theravada.

[Anonymous No.14849061]

>>14847527
>>14847555
>>14847640
>>14847577
Actually Theravada is more pozzed because of guys like this that think it's OG buddhism. It's the same stale shit like protestantism, and you end up with lesbian queer bishops for the same reason.
There's never a text by itself, it's always in a tradition, you can't exactly have a more "objective" interpretation, you might think the Mahayana sutras are diverging from the original material, but is the Abhidharma not?

https://edwardfeser.blogspot.com/2015/07/feyerabend-on-empiricism-and-sola.html
There's this great article that explains the mistakes of thinking you can have a purely scriptural philosophy. It is used for sola scriptura/protestantism but the author shows how the argument can be used against empiricism as well. Welp, the same applies to Theravada.

[Anonymous No.14849066]

>>14847699
I rec against doing this, anything you find will probably be pozzed. Just study on your own.

[Anonymous No.14849083]

>>14847452

why bother with buddhism when advaita vedanta is clearly superior

[Anonymous No.14849184]

>>14848907
I hope you aren't under the wrongful impression that you aren't practically brainless.

[Anonymous No.14849198]

>>14847577
>not worshipping dragon slayers
I mean when you put it that way it looks like medieval Christianity missed the boat.

Take the madhyamaka-yogacara pill

[Anonymous No.14849202]

>>14849083
inb4 someone posts the walltext about Gaudapada

[Anonymous No.14849231]

>>14849061
For more on how 'modern Buddhism'/I Love Science Buddhism is basically Protestantism (and literally involves corrupting) contact with Anglos, read this. Not only did it involve Theosophy but Sri Lankan nationalists actively sought to de-paganize Buddhism themselves to make it more competitive against imperialist missionaries. To this day, Theravada Buddhism is what attracts the most non-Californian westerners. This isn't to say Theravadins are wrong, but you should still read as broadly as possible into the different schools and take claims that are based on arguments from the late 1800s about having the most authenticity with a grain of salt. It's merely a highly successful sales pitch, formulated under great existential identitarian presssure.

[Anonymous No.14849245]

What are the most effective forms of authentic buddhist meditation?

[Anonymous No.14849257]

>>14847699
>>14849066

I wouldn't go either since it's one of two things you are going to do there: a. intrude on a migrant religious community which may be mostly insular for cultural reasons or b. have to deal with a bunch of namaste types and their unscrupulous enablers. Maybe you will get lucky and find a middle way, but you also live in a world where you can easily access scripture, commentaries, and contemporary discourses on both at your fingertips.

[Anonymous No.14849258]

>>14849245
Just zazen.

[Anonymous No.14849268]

>>14849257
i would go to a 'namaste' one just to get initiation despite any bs you might encounter, otherwise it just feels wrong.

[Anonymous No.14849272]

>>14849245
There are manuals within different Buddhist texts but contrary to common perception meditation is less about "not thinking" and more about overcoming thoughts had in relation to what is being meditated on. For instance, a particular desire could be meditated on by visualizing its disintegration, e.g. a beautiful woman will age, die and rot.

[Anonymous No.14849386]

>>14847460
And Theravada is just rigid moralism and nihilism.

So... I guess OP is out of options now.

[Anonymous No.14849521]

>>14849231
Interesting, but Zen also became quite popular in the West and it could be conceived as a type of Reformist Buddhism.

[Anonymous No.14849531]

>>14849386
He said chose not criticize.

[Anonymous No.14849583]

>>14849083
based

[Anonymous No.14849630]

The earliest Buddhist texts were supposedly composed in Pali and Theravadins use the texts of those which were transmitted to them as opposed to the Sanskrit versions used by Mahayanists; but even this matter can be complicated as some readings in Sanskrit texts are believed to preserve older renderings than those found in extant Pali texts. This situation could be comparable to the debates over different versions of biblical texts. Theravadins appear to be somewhat acceptant in this regard.

[Anonymous No.14849701]

>>14847452
only pre-sectarian original buddhism

[Anonymous No.14849793]

>>14849701
But we don’t have access to that. The closest thing is Theravada otherwise you’re stuck with based “hurr durr pray to the medicine Buddha to heal your tooth ache” Mahayana “““Buddhism””

[Anonymous No.14849796]

>>14849793

http://attan.prv.pl/

[Anonymous No.14849816]

>>14849701
In other words unagreed speculation

[Anonymous No.14849840]

[Anonymous No.14849846]

>>14849796
—This internet site is in honorable memory of the renowned Buddhologists and scholars: Dr. C.A.F. Rhys Davids, George Grimm, S. Radhakrishnan, J. Perez-Ramon, G.C. Pande, I.B. Horner, Dr. A.K. Coomaraswamy, Julius Evola, Rene Guenon, Nikhilananda, Chandradhar Sharma, Dr. Nakamura and many others; all of whom denied to a greater or lesser degree the image and teachings of modern Buddhism as being contrary to the original article.

—This website is dedicated to original Buddhism and the gnosis advocated thereof, as such it is an Anti-Guru, Anti-Zen-Master, Anti-Lama, Anti-Rimpoche, and Anti-bhikkhu site. The liberation advocated by original Buddhism has no connection to either a monastic clergy [SN 5.410], or a guru-based dogma [DN 2.158], [DN 2.134], [MN 1.337].

Those are quite a few renowned writers that are mentioned but it sure does seem trustworthy....

[Anonymous No.14849859]

>>14849846

indeed, good luck on your journey

[Anonymous No.14849924]

>>14847716>>14847500>>14849061


Mahayana is the result of the indian intellectuals using the vedas with brahma replaced with buddha.
Buddhism is too foreign for indian intellectuals to understand, so after the death of the buddha, they were left with what they created before Buddhism, ie the vedas, and their best understanding was the various abidhammas. Mahyana is a commentary to the one of the abidhammas.

[Anonymous No.14849933]

any of the marpa kagyu lineages

[Anonymous No.14849988]

>>14849258
>>14849245
lol today mediation is ''being with the present moment'' which appeals to lots of women and glorified intellectuals, but that's the opposite of right samadhi, ie seclusion, cessation, dispassion. Right samadhi is depending on joy-faith, which is the thing which turns tough morality >>14849386
into samadhi https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an11/an11.001.than.html

being a buddhist today is fucked up, if you can't stand the rigid morality because the good part happens only after the rigid morality and nobody knows how to get there today.

[Anonymous No.14850112]

Average Mahayana sutra:
>thus I’ve heard
>50 million nagas, 100 million devas, 500 million brahmas, 1000 million yamas, 1 gazillion pratyeka buddhas, 1 gorillion bodhisattvas gathered at the vulture peak to hear the Buddha give a dharma discourse
>then the venerable Buddha levitated and fired laser beams from his eyes
>then he said
>just practice yoga bro
>y-yoga, blessed one? I-isn’t that Hinduism??
>I know! Lmao. Oh and tantric sex too. That’s totally what I teach bro ;)
Mahayanists believe and will argue that that is Buddhism

[Anonymous No.14850117]

>>14850112
Sad! People will believe what they want
>but but muh oral traditions
Lmao retard

[Anonymous No.14850133]

Average Mahayana sutra:
>thus I’ve heard
>50 million nagas, 100 million devas, 500 million brahmas, 1000 million yamas, 1 gazillion pratyeka buddhas, 1 gorillion bodhisattvas gathered at the vulture peak to hear the Buddha give a dharma discourse
>then the venerable Buddha levitated and fired laser beams from his eyes
>then he said
>just practice yoga bro
>y-yoga, blessed one? I-isn’t that Hinduism??
>I know! Lmao. Oh and tantric sex too. That’s totally what I teach bro ;)
Mahayana fags will defend this

[Anonymous No.14850176]

>>14850133
This

[Anonymous No.14850232]

>>14850112
the same whacky shit about heavens hells gods and superpowers is in the Pali Canon

[Anonymous No.14850243]

>>14847527
No but they incorporate local folk religious and symbolic stuff in to it.

[Anonymous No.14850274]

>>14850232
Lower realms and the Gods are more like spirits. The Karmic cycle comes into it so the Gods are not like the static monotheist God of Abrahamism who decides the fate of everyone. You are really misinterpreting it.

[Anonymous No.14850298]

>>14850232
Don’t forget to pray for the yellow Tara for wealth and prosperity. That’s the teaching of Gautama Buddha ;)

[Anonymous No.14850380]

>>14850274
>it's only far-fetched and supernatural if it resembles Abrahamism!!
In the Pali Canon Buddha claims to be omniscient, he claims to be able to turn himself invisible and he claims to have to the ability to psychically project an image of his retracted penis into other peoples minds. The hells which he describes have people being tortured and they hardly differ from the Abrahamic conception of hell aside from that it's temporary

[Anonymous No.14850420]

>>14850133
It's ironic that Mahayana Buddhists went through all this trouble to compete with brahminic religion only for their paganized Buddhism to die out in India. But had the Chinese and the Tibetans not found this form of Buddhism appealing, many texts would have been lost by now.

[Anonymous No.14850441]

>>14850380
The transient nature of heavens and hells is the difference. There's no religion that teaches no consequences for your actions, and Buddhism's doctrines of death and rebirth ensure you won't be arbitrarily made to suffer until the end of time in a static torture dungeon for the actions made in a single lifetime, though the seeds of those actions may afflict you for many cycles.

[Anonymous No.14850474]

>>14849988
'Living in the moment' is so anti-Buddhist it is impressive that so many people believe that to be the core teaching. A system which requires you to reflect on the notion that everything present has originated in dependence on something prior and will ultimately cease in the future (to be reborn in a different form if it is living or sentient, as it will have generated karma through living), annihilates any sense of a permanent present with which to identify.

[Anonymous No.14850531]

>>14850441
In Eastern Orthodoxy there is the doctrine of universal salvation where Jesus will eventually come down to hell and redeem all of the souls there, also you ignored my points about Buddha making absurd claims of supernatural powers

[Anonymous No.14850565]

>>14850531
The thirty something 'marks of a great man' include having a washed penis. It's very important to the central belief system and not at all something grafted on for propagandic purposes in the competitive religious context of classical India. Christ too exhibits supernatural powers in the texts penned by Christians for the sake of converting audiences, such as walking on water or multipying loaves of bread.

[Sage No.14850588]

>>14850531
>doctrine of universal salvation
Source? That's a condemned Origenist heresy IIRC. Origen is one of Christianity's most interesting theologians I wish his doctrines were accepted, specially reincarnation.

[Anonymous No.14850607]

>>14849521
I would consider Zen less to be a reformed Buddhism and more of an assimilation of Buddhist teachings into the Japanese worldview. To the extent it is about recovering the 'original teachings' in order to 'reform' the tradition, the Zen schools drew upon Chan lineages from China, which themselves had tenuous links to India (and Gandhara). Popularity of Zen in the West (i.e. the United States) is a consequence of Japanese immigration cross polinating with counter-cultures. Zen and certainly Zen lineages in the West are thus one of the latest schools of Buddhism. I would recommend studying earlier schools first to really trace the ideas in order to make a full judgment on whether this particular iteration of them is something to adopt.

[Anonymous No.14850706]

>>14850380
You mean you can't psychologically project images of your penis into other peoples' minds?

[Anonymous No.14850725]

>>14849184

I'm not following any tenets of "western Buddhism", so don't worry. As for you, I might have some bad news.

[Anonymous No.14850752]

>>14850725
Yes? Go on.

[Anonymous No.14850767]

>>14850725
Okay, but you're still brainless.

[Anonymous No.14850813]

>>14850441
Judaism and Christianity (the less common interpretations of Christianity at least) teach temporary hell in different forms.
Judaism teaches a hell duration proportional to the number of misdeeds, before the soul can go back to heaven. Kabbalah and Jewish Apocripha teach that souls can be sent back to earth multiple times until they "learn their lessons".

Christianity has too many denominations to list, but in some hell is a place of torment until the sins are extinguished, and then the soul stops existing.
Western Buddhism, in all honesty, is quite a joke. The average westerner could pick up the Talmud and study it for 40 years and reach any enlightenment given by Buddhism, and possibly go much further, but there aren't any conveniently written down analyzes for dummies like it's been done with Buddhist marketing.
Also since it's an Abrahamic religion, it doesn't sound as exotic to them. You could be the staunchest of atheists and still find a wealth of interpretations within the Talmud and posterior works of the sages.

[Anonymous No.14850822]

>>14850813
>literally shilling the Talmud

Oy Vey

[Anonymous No.14850835]

>>14850822
Yes.
Koreans already realized what the superior tradition is. Will you do the same?

[Anonymous No.14850836]

>>14849988
Buddhists are eternal skeptics whose only philosophical project is to refute others and never putting forward a theory of their own. They never give any graspable hints about Nirvana. When they're done refuting every theory of production and you recline back and exclaim "woaah now they about to dab on the world by giving us their own theory!" they just move on to the next refutations. Yeah okay dude there is no production but there also is no permanence because that is heretical eternalism. Also rebirth is totally real even though there is no self! What do you mean that if there is no self then the immoral person will be the happiest person and the moral person will be the most miserable person because someone other than themselves will get the fruits of their actions?! You just haven't meditated enough!

Buddhism is the religion of The Skeptics but now Dawkins also tells you that you'll be burning in hell for going fishing with your grandpa.

[Anonymous No.14850840]

>>14850813
>Judaism
Stopped reading right there. Fall in a hole and die kike.

[Anonymous No.14850844]

>>14850840
Those who dig a hole for their enemies fall in it alone. Study the Talmud.

[Anonymous No.14850849]

>>14850835
The Abrahamic faiths turned South Korea into a feminist dystopia run by a cult and where the churches are now actively spreading the coronavirus across the nation

[Anonymous No.14850858]

>>14850840
>Fall in a hole
Protip: make sure to do it on the Sabbath so no one is allowed to help you out of the hole.

[Anonymous No.14850871]

>>14850849
Not because of the Talmud. Study more.
>>14850858
It's always somewhat amusing that people who dislike jewish things seem to put more effort into studying them than the average secular jewish person. Yet you always stop short of the big realizations. Why? Are you afraid of what you'll find?
Stop relying on infographs, read the Old Testament and the Talmud. It might change how you see things.

[Anonymous No.14850885]

Stop feeding the troll

[Anonymous No.14850914]

>>14850836
>Also rebirth is totally real even though there is no self!

The five psycho-physical aggregates create the self and being. What they mean is an impermanent self not everlasting soul. This is basic shit, dude.

[Anonymous No.14850918]

>>14850914
What reincarnates?

[Anonymous No.14850932]

>>14850871
re: the Sabbath joke above, is joke, comrade. Also see Luke 14:5, Matt 12:11 for background on the joke.

[Anonymous No.14850942]

>>14850813
Why should it be necessary to return to heaven? Why was I cast out in the first place? Why is some suprahuman entity punishing me in order to teach me a lesson? These are problems for the Abrahamics, whereas Buddhism teaches to overcome heaven(s) and hell(s).

[Anonymous No.14850944]

>>14850914
>Buddhism must abide by science, if science says Buddhism is wrong, Buddhism must adapt.
I'm here in the name of science to tell you there have never been any measurements or scientific evidence of "5 psycho-physical aggregates" or reincarnation.
With the power bestowed to me by Scientia et Natura and the Dalai Lama himself you may not propagate these false informations anymore.

[Anonymous No.14850948]

>>14850918
Rebirth=/=reincarnation

[Anonymous No.14850950]

>>14850918
The non-ever lasting existence. It's like saying the weather changes from time to time but it is still impermanent. It is still weather but in a different form.

[Anonymous No.14850951]

>>14850948
>le semantics game
What undergoes rebirth

[Anonymous No.14850957]

>>14850944
>I'm here in the name of science to tell you there have never been any measurements or scientific evidence of "5 psycho-physical aggregates" or reincarnation.

This is false though. There is tons of evidence for reincarnation.

[Anonymous No.14850961]

>>14850942
There are literally, and I'm not joking here, at least 3000 years of discussions and analyzes of scholars on those exact questions you made. The fact you think they aren't answered is just because no one is worried about marketing shit like the Book of Creation to westerners in paid tours to India and tantric curry recipes.
The first step for you is to stop taking things like "heaven" and "punishment" at face value and start reading the Talmud.

[Anonymous No.14850966]

>>14850871
>It's always somewhat amusing that people who dislike Nazi things seem to put more effort into studying them than the average apolitical Nazi person.
You don't say.

[Anonymous No.14850969]

>>14850950
Let me make myself clearer then. But before that, do you accept the Tipitaka as authoritative? If not, which text of Buddhism, or are you going to go back and forth and slip around like a slimy fish in order not to give a straightforward answer (like every Buddhist btw)?

[Anonymous No.14850970]

>>14850957
>There is tons of evidence for reincarnation.
Anecdotal evidence is not scientific evidence. The Dalai Lama specifically referred to science.

[Anonymous No.14850977]

>>14850914
I know but there is no true continuity in the rebirth, the same self will not arise. So other "people" will experience the good/bad actions of whoever caused them to arise. This renders the accruing of merit/demerit pointless.

Rebirth in Buddhism is basically just the "noble lie" for the laypeople.

[Anonymous No.14851003]

>>14850977
>Rebirth in Buddhism is basically just the "noble lie" for the laypeople.
So the Buddha lies. What else did the Buddha lie about? Also how can I know which parts are true and which are lies.
Great religious leader you have there btw.

[Anonymous No.14851008]

>>14851003
Good thing Semite Jews never lie. The Bible is da truth. Prays the Jews

[Anonymous No.14851010]

>>14850836
You seem to be glossing your conclusions about negative answers and skepticism from a reading of Madhyamaka teachings on emptiness, which while influential are not the only interpretations of Buddhism. Madhyamikas will not assert anything exists and only seek to disprove the theories or assumptions of others who hold things to (inherently) exist. For Madhyamikas, there can only be conventional existence, which does bring them in line with Skeptic and Pyrrhonist attitudes toward commonly held views by the general public regarding phenomena and customs. They take these to be contingent and not 'true.' There are other schools which developed concepts which effectively take the place of a self but should not be mistaken for a self, such as the Yogacarin doctrines on the alāya consciousness (which functions like a storehouse of matrix of the seeds of all one's karma and determines rebirths). The seminal work to read on this would be Asanga's Compendium of the Mahayana

[Anonymous No.14851014]

>>14850942
>God sends you back to earth to learn what you didn't learn in your previous life.
ABRAHAM BAD!
>The cycle of samsara sends you back to earth to learn what you didn't learn in your previous life.
BUDDHA GOOD!

Glad to see we're on the same page about western Buddhists being braindead.

[Anonymous No.14851016]

>>14851008
Nice diversion. Now answer the questions.

[Anonymous No.14851028]

>>14851016
Jewish kike liar. Stop falling for Jewish lies. The Talmud is kike bullshit

[Anonymous No.14851040]

>>14851014
Why is it necessary for some personal deity to intervene in this process? These are radically different claims. From the Buddhist perspective the god would be subject to the same processes, not outside of them. To the Abrahamic this is something you would be made to suffer for arguing for.

[Anonymous No.14851062]

>>14849521
isn't zen basically a very iconoclastic branch of buddhism to avoid the problem of empty ritualism?

[Anonymous No.14851067]

>>14850977
if there's no rebirth, you gain nothing with enlightenment that you wouldn't get by jumping from a cliff

[Anonymous No.14851080]

>>14851003
You seem a bit confused. There is self/ "soul" you could say. It just arises from the psycho-physical aggregates and is impermanent.

[Anonymous No.14851092]

>>14851040
>personal deity
>intervene
Read
The
Talmud

[Anonymous No.14851112]

>>14851067
From my understanding the purpose of Advaita is to reach enlightenment as you still have karma left to spend which means to live in this body in this life as an enlightened being. I'm guessing it is kinda the same for Buddhism.

But me saying rebirth is a noble lie wasn't meant to mean there is no continual becoming in Buddhism after death but that there is no connection between various rebirths other than cause and effect. Which means the morally good person will not get the fruits of his morality, rather some completely other "person" will. So no, killing yourself would not help as it does not cut away the roofs of becoming.

I don't think any Buddhist can tell me with a straight face that 99% of the laypeople in Buddhist countries do not have the impression that their actions will create good/bad fruits for themselves in the next lives though. And this is the noble lie.

[Anonymous No.14851120]

>>14850565
> It's very important to the central belief system
Wrong. It does not contain any information useful in gaining Enlightenment.
>>14851067
Wrong. One can enjoy fruit of Enlightenment without dying.
>>14851003
>What else did the Buddha lie about?
About type of birth some water animal undergoes, but I don't remember which one.
This does not mean he lied about Nibbana.

[Anonymous No.14851131]

>>14851120
>This does not mean he lied about Nibbana
Says who? The Buddha? But he could be lying about not lying.

[Anonymous No.14851149]

>>14851120
Is lying one of the great noble paths?

[Anonymous No.14851161]

>>14851120
>Wrong. One can enjoy fruit of Enlightenment without dying.
enlightenment is not complete until you die by the scripture, and if there's no rebirth enlightenment doesn't add anything that you won't be by dying anyway

[Anonymous No.14851172]

>>14851120
Was being sarcastic about its importance, if you finished reading the sentence

[Anonymous No.14851193]

>>14851112
as far as i understand, the claim of buddhism is that enlightenment solves the problem of suffering, but if there's no rebirth jumping from a cliff solves it too

you can say that jumping from a cliff doesn't work because suffering still remains all around in other aggregates being deluded, but enlightenment also doesn't do anything for dissolving the delusion of others so the same could be said about it

[Anonymous No.14851201]

What if the Buddha never achieved nibbana? What if he made the whole thing up about achieving nibbana, gaining super powers, talking with gods and seeing past lives? What if he lied about nibbana so people would have some purpose and meaning in their lives, or was just a fake guru like so many others?

[Anonymous No.14851218]

>>14851201
This is why Buddhism, contrary to modernist delusions, is a religion, because it requires faith in the buddha-dharma

[Anonymous No.14851235]

>>14851201
I mean scholars do agree that Buddhism takes elements from the Shamkya system, the Upanishads as well as from Jainism, which predates Buddhism and preached liberation from Samsara through asceticism in order to reach Nirvana and everything else before the Buddha did, so it's not like he brought some new revelation or insight to the table. His teaching was a mishmash. Given that and his "noble lies" and... I don't know dudes, the Buddha seems a little bit all-too-human don't you think?

[Anonymous No.14851428]

>>14851235
Nothing implies Jainism predates Buddhism. First time we see any appearance of Jainism is around 200 years after the Buddha.

[Anonymous No.14851441]

>>14847452
Just choose them all lmao

[Anonymous No.14851513]

>>14851193
>but enlightenment also doesn't do anything for dissolving the delusion of others so the same could be said about it

One of the core teachings is that all beings achieve enlightenment and break the cycle of Karma.

[Anonymous No.14851603]

>>14851428
>Nothing implies Jainism predates Buddhism
>Nothing
Except the founder of Jainism is mentioned in the tipitaka. Lmao!

[Anonymous No.14851619]

>>14847452
make your own school

[Anonymous No.14851728]

>>14850969
They don't know because they haven't actually actually read any scripture; aggregates reincarnate, your "future-self " will have many similarities with the current you.

[Anonymous No.14852625]

>>14847500
>Tibetian, Vajrayana
Aren't these the same thing?
>Shaolin and Zen
Mahayana spinoffs.

>>14847577
This is the root of your issues; your viewing Buddhism through the lense of a Christian worldview, and are trying to slot eastern "religions" in to the same style of strict-ish categorisation as the West has historically constructed for itself.

[Anonymous No.14852633]

>>14849521
Western pop-Zen is and should be considered distinct from actual Zen Buddhism, keep in mind.

[Anonymous No.14853010]

I want to get in on some Buddhism memes but im worried about investing time in what ultimately results in feeling cozy while stagnating. Im open to being completely wrong though if anyone could explain it to me.

[Anonymous No.14853059]

>>14853010
Abrahamic bad

[Anonymous No.14853068]

>>14853059
y

[Anonymous No.14853071]

>>14853068
JQ

[Anonymous No.14853088]

>>14853071
i c

[Anonymous No.14853196]

>>14847716
absolutely based

[Anonymous No.14853227]

>>14851112
This is easier to explain from the perspective of universal consciousness. You accrue karma and you carry it into rebirth, it's just that we define 'you' to be all things. Maybe I'm misinterpreting the concept though.

[Anonymous No.14853298]

>>14847452
Strictly adhering to one school is wrong view

[Anonymous No.14853306]

>>14847452
Soto Zen

[Anonymous No.14853335]

>>14847452
Afro-Israelite Zen Buddhism

[Anonymous No.14853337]

How do I become a Zen Buddhist monk?

[Anonymous No.14853393]

>>14851728
That's what I fucking said. The weather analogy is from the Lama himself.

[Anonymous No.14853626]

>>14850836
lol the claim of the buddhists is that the jhanas are not nirvana, that's all. If you want to do arm chair philosophy and be scholar then buddhism is not for you.

[Anonymous No.14854076]

>>14851513
>One of the core teachings is that all beings achieve enlightenment and break the cycle of Karma.
and how does you achieving enlightenment bring that goal any closer if there's no rebirth and you'll just soon disappear forever? nuking the world would be faster anyway

[Anonymous No.14854080]

>>14852633
isn't zen really autistic about direct transmission and disregard of scriptures? always find funny when californians say japanese zen is not real because there was no direct transmission, but by that standard there's no existing zen today

[Anonymous No.14854087]

>>14853337
sit and stare at a wall

[Anonymous No.14854108]

whats the point of being le epic enlightened atheist if you just go LARP as a Buddhist anyways

[Anonymous No.14854486]

Yeah so comparable to Christian Reformation. The primary use black robes by its clergy over more traditional saffron robes could be taken as another superficial similarity.

[Anonymous No.14854492]

>>14851062
Yeah so comparable to Christian Reformation. The primary use black robes by its clergy over more traditional saffron robes could be taken as another superficial similarity.

[Anonymous No.14854495]

>>14851062
they created plenty of rituals themselves

[Anonymous No.14854555]

>>14854492
is there any living branch of zen? as in with uninterrupted direct transmission? i guess Shaolin monks claim to be zen, but their buddhism looks more like pure land than like what most westerners think zen is?
>>14854495
but the rituals are unimportant in theory, like zens would bully people or murder cats to prove a point

[Anonymous No.14854723]

>>14851010
There is an eternal Self in the original Yogachara of Asanga not but the later Yogachara of figures who came after him. In Asanaga's original conception of Yogachara the alaya-vijnana was not itself the final underlying layer/self but both the individual stream of vijnanas as well as the alaya-vijnana both appear in the Parinispanna which is eternal non-dual conciousness. Asanga says that the attainment of Nirvana involves basically a return to the true nature of consciousness as Parinispanna and he refers to Parinispanna as being the great self or real self. For some reason a lot of Buddhists are unaware of this and some people will mistakenly attribute the views of later Yogacharins to Asanga.

[Anonymous No.14854788]

>>14854723
what's a sanga?

[Anonymous No.14854809]

>>14854788
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asanga

[Anonymous No.14855803]

chocking

[Anonymous No.14856781]

>>14854723
iirc that 'permanent self' is considered the 'buddhakaya,' but that doesn't really mean the same thing as a self in common parlance since it is not unique to you personally but a sort of primordial substrate. The conventionally understood self then still does not exist.

[Anonymous No.14856788]

>>14854788
Not to be confused with a sangha

[Anonymous No.14857437]

>>14847452
I prefer Peepoohavayayama myself.

[Anonymous No.14858363]

Try not fapping for 1 week and when you fail understand you're not ready to be a monk

[Anonymous No.14858389]

What an enormous waste of time.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!DqDkzAt12xo No.14859062]

>>14850835
yeah cause they're indirectly owned by israel
imagine taking koreans seriously on anything
(except best korea ofc)

[Anonymous No.14859578]

>>14854076
Because without the people realizing the Buddha's path they would just reincarnate to a lower realm and it would take longer to achieve Shambhala Nirvana.

[Anonymous No.14859587]

>>14859062
Wtf? Butterfly is based.

[Anonymous No.14859819]

>>14849272
So, deconstruction?

[Anonymous No.14859879]

>>14851513
>One of the core teachings is that all beings achieve enlightenment and break the cycle of Karma.
no that's mahayana

[Anonymous No.14859985]

>>14859879
So the proper form of Buddhism. Got it.

[Anonymous No.14859990]

>>14847452
Don't. Start with the earliest school and continue chronologically, compare them and move on from there. Though more importantly, Buddhism is about practice, if you ignore meditation (ex. Anapanasati) and instead just read texts you miss the entire point of Buddhism. Finally repeat this with all religion, chronologically, and enjoy grand realizations by comparing them all.

[Anonymous No.14859997]

>>14847640
They claim theirs is the true Buddhism.

[Anonymous No.14860007]

>>14859578
>they would just reincarnate to a lower realm and
the thread was about how buddhism makes sense if you do NOT believe in rebirth. i see how it makes sense with it

[Anonymous No.14860050]

>>14860007
Rebirth is a core part of Buddhism (at leastthe proper sects). It's like trying to rationalize Christ without Heaven and Hell.

[Anonymous No.14860495]

>>14860050
But but muh non self.
No self, no rebirth. Pick one.

[Anonymous No.14860791]

>>14860495
Buddha never actually denied that there was a Self, it's just that many schools of Buddhism don't understand this and think that he taught a doctrine of "no-self" even when he never does and he only uses anatta as an adjective to say "X is not the self", "Y is not the self"

[Anonymous No.14860815]

Turn to Christ

[Anonymous No.14861096]

Just watch Xavier Renegade Angel and come to your own conclusion.

[Anonymous No.14861115]

>>14860791
>Buddha never actually denied that there was a self
get a load of this Hindu

[Anonymous No.14861379]

>>14861115
please cite the passage in the nikayas where you believe that he does then, it simply doesn't exist

[Anonymous No.14861485]

>>14861379
the point is that there is nothing outside the 5 aggregates and the aggregates are not the self that the non enlightened people claim to be.
the self is just an idea by non enlightened people

[Anonymous No.14861919]

>>14861485
>the point is that there is nothing outside the 5 aggregates
Buddha never said this

[Anonymous No.14861932]

>>14847452
>how to choose
Are you shopping for a religion, you fucking trend-hopper?

[Anonymous No.14861990]

>>14861919
yes he did. the whole points is that what is lived involves at least one aggregate, eg any memory of past life will have seeing or smelling and so on, most jhanas will have vedana, and when there is no aggregate, it is actually when there is nothing and that's nirvana. This is why he calls the aggregates the ALL and lack of all is emptiness.
that's SN 35.23 Sabba Sutta.


Brahmins do not understand that Self is just an idea, a mental proliferation and there is nothing outside the aggregates and nirvana itself is not-self.

[Anonymous No.14862132]

>>14860791
that's true byt The buddha never said that people were right in saying that there is in fact a self, and people were mistaken when they view it as the skhandas and in fact the self is something else.
The hindus do say this though.

[Anonymous No.14862173]

>>14861990
Answer this >>14854076