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/lit/ - Literature

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14842122 No.14842122 [Reply] [Original]

>Daddy
Imagine reading that poem and not coming to the conclusion that women are fucking insane

>> No.14842127

For years I've been tormented by the "problem" (as I call it) of Sylvia Plath, the problem of whether she is BASED or NOT BASED and whether I want to lick her feet, or I want her to give up her whore ways and stand in a wheat field (barefoot)

>> No.14842133

>>14842122
either way she's based

>> No.14842142

I'd fuck her depression away.

-faps to her poetry-

>> No.14842143

>>14842122
>"I saw my life branching out before me like the green fig tree in the story. From the tip of every branch, like a fat purple fig, a wonderful future beckoned and winked. One fig was a husband and a happy home and children, and another fig was a famous poet and another fig was a brilliant professor, and another fig was Ee Gee, the amazing editor, and another fig was Europe and Africa and South America, and another fig was Constantin and Socrates and Attila and a pack of other lovers with queer names and offbeat professions, and another fig was an Olympic lady crew champion, and beyond and above these figs were many more figs I couldn't quite make out. I saw myself sitting in the crotch of this fig tree, starving to death, just because I couldn't make up my mind which of the figs I would choose. I wanted each and every one of them, but choosing one meant losing all the rest, and, as I sat there, unable to decide, the figs began to wrinkle and go black, and, one by one, they plopped to the ground at my feet."

Friendly reminder that a woman's greatest source of dread is the fact that she can't possibly hedonistically indulge in ALL the strange handsome men who want to fuck her.

>> No.14842190

>>14842143
Nah, she's just a bougie, and like every bougie has unrealistic expectations of achievement and success. Cross that with bipolar disorder, and you've got a woman who forces herself to try as hard as possible to succeed, but is unable to ever enjoy that success because she can't be satisfied for anything, so she killed herself. Very common type, but not specifically feminine. Lower middle class women in Nebraska don't think like this at all, they're satisfied with a husband that isn't an alcoholic and who's willing to watch the occasional hallmark movie with them. Plath's problems are the domain of the wealthy, crazy, and urban.

>> No.14842203

>>14842190
>noo! rich people aren't allowed to be depressed
cope

>> No.14842205

>>14842190
>Lower middle class women in Nebraska don't think like this at all, they're satisfied with a husband that isn't an alcoholic and who's willing to watch the occasional hallmark movie with them.

Sounds comfy, but I'm afraid that these sorts of women don't exist anymore in (current year).

>> No.14842262

>>14842203
You obviously didn't read anything that I said. Also, depression doesn't exist. It's generally a term the bourgeoisie use for their inability to moderate their standards and expectations of success.
>>14842205
Not only do they exist, they're increasing in number. Bourgeois success culture peaked in the late 50's/early 60's. Huge numbers of people have seen the writing on the wall and are willing to relax their standards. That's why every 80's movie is about quitting your office job and spending more time with your family. Most of this change is spurred by automation devaluing human effort.

>> No.14842282

>>14842262
>depression doesn't exist
there is a point to what you are saying, but you cannot deny the very symptom of it that exists

>Not only do they exist, they're increasing in number.

the revolution will not be televised

>> No.14842300

>>14842282
What I mean is that depression as a chemical imbalance in the brain which causes prolonged sadness, or as a runaway effect of moderate frustration which snowballs into a permanent issue, does not exist. The causes of people's psychological issues are always rational and rooted in either an obvious physical cause like autism, or the product of learned behaviors from childhood and repressed drives manifesting in irrational behavior.

>The revolution will not be televised
I agree with the sentiment, but Gil Scott Heron is as bourgeois as every radical leftist. The revolution isn't people stealing ambulances and rioting in the streets. It's Walmart pushing out so many small businesses that local bourgeoisie collapse into a new disenfranchised middle class, which ferments in frustrated political will until they demand that the government intercede heavily in the market and socialize basic services.

>> No.14842352

>>14842300
>depression doesn't exist
>explains why and how depression comes about

>> No.14842361

>>14842352
When people say "depression" they almost always mean "sadness which is not the product of any obvious behavior on my part or condition in which I live". And it's always one of those two things.

>> No.14842367

>>14842300
"phobia of spiders does not exist in the sense that people see spiders and are terrified. what happens is when people are really young they see their mother terrified of spiders which in turn scares them and the sight of a spider brings back that repressed feeling of fear which is second hand from the mother. Also sometimes people have a spider jump on them when they are young and the freak out and run into a scalding hot radiator so their brain associates spiders with a traumatic experience. but they aren't scared of spiders tho" - basically you

>> No.14842381

>>14842361
that's just conjecture

>> No.14842388

>>14842367
Nobody uses the term depression to describe the feeling of being depressed. If "phobia of spiders" meant "being afraid of spiders for no reason", then sure. But it doesn't, it means being afraid of spiders for any reason.

"Depression" means "being sad for no reason" or "being sad due to brain chemistry" not "being sad for any reason". If you can't understand the difference, then I can't help you.

>> No.14842395

>>14842381
It is an empirical claim I am making, yes. I didn't say it was a necessary condition of the word depression that it is used in the way it is, I'm just asserting this.

>> No.14842412

>>14842388
"depression", noun: feelings of severe despondency and dejection.
>nobody uses the term depression to describe the feeling of being depressed
like this guy said >>14842381 that's just conjecture. just because you know 3 losers who whine about muh depression while doing nothing with their lives doesn't mean true depression for no good reason is impossible

>> No.14842424

>nooo I can't get all the delicious penis I want better put my head in the oven

>> No.14842442

>>14842190
>Lower middle class women in Nebraska don't think like this at all,
they do

>> No.14842448

>>14842412
Just because I haven't seen any evidence of it in my entire life, because every single person I've known who's claimed to have it has obviously been ignoring much more obvious factors, just because the values of the bourgeoisie construct mental illness in such a way that they see avoiding culpability for one's own failings as the most important thing, just because it doesn't fit with my worldview in the slightest for such a widespread problem to exist without anyone developing a clear understanding of its mechanisms, just because depressed people often lie to themselves and others in really obvious ways, doesn't mean that I should trust my instincts over what a bunch of random assholes who have been conditioned to except external authority regarding psychological matters? Huh, go figure.

>> No.14842451

>>14842361
>When people say "depression" they almost always mean "sadness which is not the product of any obvious behavior on my part or condition in which I live". And it's always one of those two things
That's not true at all, you're just attacking a strawman. When somebody says "He's depressed because his wife died" do they mean a chemical imbalance that has nothing to do with life circumstances?

>> No.14842463

>>14842451
"Depression" is a noun, a thing which one has. "depressed" is an adverb. I'm referring to the former, and arguing with my points regarding the former as though they don't apply because I'm ignoring the latter is ridiculously shitty logic.

>> No.14842523

>>14842448
>Just because I haven't seen any evidence of it in my entire life, because every single person I've known who's claimed to have it has obviously been ignoring much more obvious factors
anecdotal nonsene
> just because the values of the bourgeoisie construct mental illness in such a way that they see avoiding culpability for one's own failings as the most important thing
borderline schizo and almost irrelevant. Would not have a large meaningful impact on any one individuals psyche
>just because it doesn't fit with my worldview in the slightest for such a widespread problem to exist without anyone developing a clear understanding of its mechanisms
I'm not denying that on paper it seems a widespread problem but a lot of those numbers are in fact the people you referred to here:
>every single person I've known who's claimed to have it has obviously been ignoring much more obvious factors.
Just because people misunderstand depression doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
> just because depressed people often lie to themselves and others in really obvious ways
again, more conjecture, more assumptions and probably more anectodal stuff. I could whip out some stories to the contrary but it's useless
>a bunch of random assholes who have been conditioned to except external authority regarding psychological matters
again, more conjecture, more schizo bullshit

Look we get it, once upon a time you were going through a rough patch, thought you were depressed, nobody took it seriously, you got better all by yourself and now you shit all over people you don't know because depression is mainstream now and you had it before it was cool (see how ridiculous conjecture and projection is?)

>> No.14842532

>>14842300
i am the "anon" you quoted in your post

>depression as a chemical imbalance in the brain which causes prolonged sadness, or as a runaway effect of moderate frustration which snowballs into a permanent issue, does not exist.

it does though, are you blind to the symptom? its not a snowball, but more so a "local minima", in the sense that a ball gets stuck in a pit and you can't kick it out of the pit unless you kick super duper hard in a single kick, opposed to many small kicks

>The causes of people's psychological issues are always rational

very wrong: the cause is subconscious/repressed content that is imagery/sensual in nature. the rationalization is a defence mechanism intended to heal/cope (which has good AND bad connotations)

>Gil Scott Heron is as bourgeois as every radical leftist.

maybe true, but i didn't have any direct connotations of his stuff when i cited that quote. my point being was just that even if this was the case (i hope it is, and i lightly think so as well, though in a rather unusual form perhaps), you would likely be ignorant of it unless you are in the "streets of human social experience" so to speak; this makes me wonder what you interpreted what i said

>>14842412
depression as a medical term implies a long term effect

>> No.14842563

>>14842523
Your entire argument is "this is conjecture" which I have not denied. I never claimed to have a mathematically deductive proof that depression doesn't exist, so acting like you've discredited me by saying something I've admit freely is ridiculous. Also, calling things "schizo" isn't a free pass to dismiss an argument just because you don't possess the understanding necessary to counter it. Your pitiful attempt at an "own" by coming up with a story about me is just that, pitiful. Not to mention it's conjecture.
>>14842532
You've offered the clinical explanation of the mechanism of depression, which I've argued isn't true. Not sure what you think you're accomplishing by doing that. Positive feedback loops re: the human psyche are extremely limited, and the tendency to assert otherwise grows from the bourgeois tendency to obfuscate the source problems in an effort to evade censure. When one conceptualizes a system as indeterminately complex, if becomes much easier to hide ones guilt and self contradiction within it.

Regarding the other thing, how could we be anywhere other than "the streets of human experience"? We watch television, read the news, and talk to people don't we? Again, complexity is a crutch used to avoid culpability. Society isn't very complicated.

>> No.14842588

>>14842563
RE the bourgeoisie promoting mental health problems - "it doesn't fit with my worldview in the slightest for such a widespread problem"

>> No.14842598

>>14842448
Based and i agree with you.
Depression is a meme designed to pathologize individuals while preventing them from challenging and questionning their environment. "Oooh you're depressed, that has nothing to do with the fact that your life is shit and that you have to work all week doing useless shit and getting hulimiated by morons, no you see, all of this is normal, what's abnormal is the chemical imbalance in your brain, now take these pills and stop asking questions you fucking loser"

>> No.14842806

>>14842122
>>14842143
>This female author said a thing which means all women are a hivemind

Why must you guys be like this...

>> No.14842826

>>14842367
this but unironically

>they see their mother terrified of spiders
Girardian mimesis in action

>> No.14842829
File: 465 KB, 2017x2506, NINTCHDBPICT000189758911.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14842829

>>14842122

>> No.14842831

>>14842190
Yes they do you dolt

>> No.14842833

>>14842143
Her husband cheated on her, then cheated on his mistress. Men are worse

>> No.14843344

>>14842833
Not only that, I’m pretty sure the mistress also eventually killed herself because he cheated on her, too

>> No.14843388
File: 80 KB, 570x712, t.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14843388

>As Hughes and Plath were legally married at the time of her death, Hughes inherited the Plath estate, including all her written work. He has been condemned repeatedly for burning Plath's last journal, saying he "did not want her children to have to read it."
https://youtu.be/AIJ1S2xhNvU

>> No.14843409

>>14843388
>>14842833
>>14843344
Hughes did everything right. Bitches must suffer

>> No.14843414

You guys are cowards, Plath is based and Hughes did nothing wrong.

>> No.14843470

>>14842523
people who use "schizo" as a pejorative are typically dumb as fuck. please stay on reddit.

>> No.14843473

>>14843388
>>14843409
basé

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Zlaf4KUn20

>> No.14843476

>>14842300
how is a chemical imbalance not an obvious physical cause, but autism apparently is?

>> No.14843478

>>14842127
Her poetry? Kind of based.
The Bell Jar? Cringe

>> No.14843492
File: 13 KB, 251x242, 1562057284608.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14843492

>>14842127
>>14842142

>> No.14843493

life of a female revolves around sex
-with men a woman has sex
-around women, a woman talks about sex and gossip about other women and mock the ugly men who orbit her
-then she gets pregnant and cares for something else than sex the first few years when the child depends 1005 of her.
THen she wants the child to be grateful for being born [lol] and as the child grows, it depends on something else than the mom and so she has nothing else in her life
The woman goes back to having sex with men again and talking about sex.
Then the woman finally dies and the daughters become sexually active and so on.

the republic is a system where the bourgeois has managed to make the plebeans believe that commenting on the rules created by the bourgeois is actually meaningful, and then when from time to time the plebeans figure out the lack of any power their views have on the politics, they go in the streets wreaking havoc.
This is why so many soccer moms and drones try to earn virtue points on posting comments online. The first thing to do online is to comment. See a message on the internet? there is a little box to comment on it.

This is the greatest feat of the bourgeois republic: to turn commenting publicly and privately and reporting comments into a meaningful life .
This is why when you let females talk they talk about sex and they find a devoted audience.

>> No.14843559

>>14843476
A "chemical imbalance" is junk pseudoscience without a clear mechanism of action. We know what genetic defects cause autism, and can often diagnose it from genes and physical features alone. We can't do that with depression, because depression doesn't exist.

>> No.14843566

>>14843493
Man, I need to get a trip just to avoid being confused with faggots like you who toss the word "bourgeois" around like I do but in way less reasonable contexts.

>> No.14844483

>>14842563
>You've offered the clinical explanation of the mechanism of depression
no. i offered a pseudo-science BS hand-waving analogy grounded in dynamical systems theory. the clinical explanation involves words like serotonin, but there isn't going to be a super coherent ~system's explanation~, as in they only describe literally what is going on without much of a diagnosis-explanation

>Positive feedback loops
technically speaking, it should be a negative feedback loop. IIRC (and i might be wrong), depression is primarily defined by negative-symptoms (asides from: feelin depressed)

>human psyche are extremely limited
not sure what you are getting at, but this quite the contrary: in fact every thought ever has been embedded in some human's psyche

>becomes much easier to hide ones guilt and self contradiction within it.
i can agree, but you probably haven't REALLY seen people who are seriously ill like this. i also partially agree with your bougie comments (but for reasons asides),

>how could we be anywhere other than "the streets of human experience"
that was partially a joke, but "watch television, read the news" is literally the spectacle as debord would say, "The spectacle is not a collection of images, but a social relation among people, mediated by images."

in any case the connotation was being that you need to be on the ground with real people, and even if that was the case you likely wouldn't view them as a "statistic of society" rather than "an actual person"

>Society isn't very complicated.
this is only true because society doesn't demand much from you, and for you society is limited to a rather small confine. i dont see how any other explanation could be the csae

>> No.14844558

>>14842122
Someone once said that my poetry was like Plath's. I still don't know how I should take that.

>> No.14844575

>>14842122
What's her deal guys? Why is my gf reading The Bell Jar every night before bed? She told me the other night about the lurid ending and all the protagonist's attempts to kill herself.

Why do I get the nagging feeling that the whole subtext here, the whole reason women recommend this to other women in hushed reverential tones like some kind of chick samizdat, is that the patriarchy killed Plath?

>> No.14844587

>>14844558
Somewhat sardonic and confessional ? Most likely a compliment.

>> No.14845123

>>14844558
Are you a crybaby who compares your dad being mean to you to being a jew during the holocaust?

>> No.14845236

>>14843559
>without a clear mechanism of action.
you should read more on this. the jew pills work entirely because we do have some understanding or the mechanisms. and in case you do not know, hormone levels do absolutely have genetic factors as well as environmental. your mistake is believing that every issue one may have must be a genetic anomaly rather than a possible expression of normal genetics in an unsuitable environment.

>> No.14845249

>>14843566
>wants to tripfag
>calls other anons faggots
ok faggot

>> No.14845581

>>14842190
Bovaries were lost