/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.14806947]

Is getting a Classics degree worth it?

[Anonymous No.14806951]

>>14806947
In what context? For a job? No, probably not. No industries are looking for graduates in the classics.

[Anonymous No.14806952]

>>14806947
"worth it" is quite a subjective phrase

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.14806955]

Check the jobs market for that worth.

[Anonymous No.14806970]

>>14806947
depends if you come from a family of money or can get a sugamomma.

[Anonymous No.14806975]

if you have to ask, no

for alphas like me, yes

[Anonymous No.14806976]

>>14806951
>>14806952
>>14806955
>>14806970
I mean on a more personal level. If I were to go into Classics for a job, I would try to become a professor.

[Anonymous No.14806983]

yea it's pretty much the only opportunity you'll get to learn ancient greek and latin. you can always work in human resources if you dont want a phd

[Anonymous No.14806987]

>>14806975
I'm heavily considering it. I just wanted to see if anybody has taken Classics here and what they thought of it.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.14806999]

>>14806976
If you’ve got the time and money, and think you like the teacher, why not?
I’m not some tanky that’s going to scold you for fiddling while the world burns. Enjoy

[Anonymous No.14807244]

I feel like you can probably learn most of it without doing a degree but idk. If you just want to learn it then maybe, but it's not worth it if you are looking for a job outside teaching classics.

[Anonymous No.14807253]

>>14806947
i wouldn't do classics alone, maybe compliment it with something else

[Anonymous No.14807260]

>>14806983
yeah, then you could perhaps become a translator

[Anonymous No.14807819]

>>14806976
>professor
why would you want to hate life?

[Anonymous No.14807920]

Depends. Do you want to a job or do you want to be unemployed?

[Anonymous No.14807926]

Yes, you'll look like a Greek statue gigachad after you've finished your degree.

[Anonymous No.14807961]

>>14807920
I wanna be a cute maid-clothing wearing boy working for a rich old man doing housekeeping chores and cooking for him every day.

[Anonymous No.14807981]

I’m considering going back to school to study Classics, OP. I already have a degree.

[Anonymous No.14808006]

Ok well the truth is I wanna study Classics because I like muscly men and foreign languages, and like the prestige of getting called smart because of what I'm studying, but didn't wanna study something STEM-related because I almost failed Calculus and Physics class back in high school and even though I like anime I don't wanna study East Asian Studies because I don't wanna come off like a weird-ass weeaboo, plus I think Linguistics might be a bit too heavy for me. Also, I don't like getting tanned or doing hard physical exercise.

[Anonymous No.14808024]

>>14808006
Same...

[Anonymous No.14808028]

>>14808006
study philosophy, classics are a surrogate activity.

[Anonymous No.14808349]

>>14806947
If your not a slave laboured zooner to a boomer then no. I think working at McDonalds is better than a classics job

[Anonymous No.14809051]

>>14806947
>>14806970
>>14807920

What about getting a classics degree at say Oxbridge if learning about ancient Greek and Roman philosophy and language is a passion and then once you've finished, converting to law?

Does this not allow you to both follow your literary, philosophical and classical interests, as well as avoiding future destitution and unemployment? (as you might see in other non-stem choices)

Seems a lot more rewarding than actually slaving away by directly studying law for 3 or 4 years, is anyone able to offer any advice on this?

[Anonymous No.14809097]

>>14809051
Lawyers aren't exactly an extremely highly rare and prized occupation. If you're gonna go to Oxbridge, better study something you'd never find anywhere else like CS+Cognitive Science or Math+Philosophy rather than just a generic tour through the the Greeks and stuff equivalent to that old /his/ chart everybody has seen plus a few classes on Attic Greek/Classical Latin morphology and syntax that will help mold you into an average-level classics translator (cuz we definitely need another translation of Virgil's Aeneid, right?) on par with some generic student studying the same stuff in a liberal arts college somewhere in middle America.

Shit, I don't even see why you wouldn't wanna study something more exotic like studying Sanskrit for the sake of reading the Upanishads untranslated or Arabic for the sake of reading Hadiths if you're gonna do the Oxbridge route if you wanna study something high, fancy, and classical. Like, just think of how many Poos you could btfo on Quora by telling them how their interpretations of the Veda are incorrect due to philological-hermeneutic misinterpretation issues, or think of how you could get hired as a government consultant/special affairs if you knew Arabic and could read transcripts of Middle Eastern politicians' speeches.

[Anonymous No.14809140]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-51676530

For women, the financial gains of studying creative arts and languages are "close to zero"

Medicine will bring an extra £340,000 for women, economics £270,000 and £260,000 for law

Men studying creative arts subjects are projected to lose £100,000, compared to their counterparts who did not go to university

For men in the top-earning subject areas of medicine and economics, the likely gain is £500,000

For both men and women there are low financial returns for graduates in English and biology

But for 70,000 students each year the costs of going to university - such as fees, loans and lost earnings while they studied - will be greater than any extra money they make in earnings, so they make less than their counterparts who went to work straight after A-levels.

OH NO NO NO NO

[Anonymous No.14809152]

>>14809097
Yeah Maths + Philosophy or something like PPE would be ideal - although the acceptance rates on such courses are so slim, think they're some of the most competitive in the world - and unless you have something like 15 GCSEs at A* or A and you've achieved ~4 A Levels with A*s and As also I suspect it's going to be challenging to stand out nowadays.

While the application rate for Classics is a lot more accommodating, and would enable you to study something you're passionate in at a world-class university - especially Oxbridge , feel as if Anglo countries have always historically had the greatest appreciation for the Classic European civilisations - whilst allowing you to stand out from the multitude of lawyers and improve your chances of success with something like Oxford or Cambridge on your application?

Any thoughts on a possible approach like this?

[Anonymous No.14809167]

>>14806947
no degree is worth it, uni is a scam

[Anonymous No.14809217]

>>14809152
Dunno what to tell you. I'm just a former History major who ended up switching to CS in some shitty Mexican public university after noticing that I didn't like identity politics/nepotism in academia.
Regardless of where you study, you're bound to come across pseuds who will have memorized hundreds of more fun facts than you off Wikipedia articles and books, and there will always be people who might be more cultured or smarter or better at socializing with people or banging hoes or whatever than you. In any situation, you're bound to meet people who will probably wanna outrank you and some professors whom you might be able to please, but others whom you'll have to spend nights with very few hours of sleep and make some long-ass works in order to be able to even barely pass their classes.
So better think of something you think you'd enjoy doing regardless of your external circumstances and that you don't think you'll end up cringing for getting a degree in a few decades later.

[Anonymous No.14809228]

>>14806947
Usually, yes. It is a good discipline.
I just don't know how badly it is being infected by wokeness.
I know that Zuckerberg's sister is spending a lot of effort in destroying it with wokeness.

[Anonymous No.14809253]

>>14806947
>worth?
In tandem with linguistics/law. Otherwise it's a cope against the woke culture in liberal arts you might encounter otherwise (depends how highly you value that vs. xyz marginally marketable degrees in the absence of a doctorate/habilitation in the current year.)

>>14809051
>Oxbridge, learn Greek/Roman, go into law
Classics will be the go to status discipline until our HIV positive transexual chinese-latino overlords remove their Velvet Glove from the Hidden Hand. That sounds fine, still better if it's politics thereafter.

[Anonymous No.14809256]

>>14808006
>and like the prestige of getting called smart because of what I'm studying

You'll be surprised by how many people don't know what Classics means. Then, even after you explain it, how many still don't entirely understand while yet knowing enough to know they don't care.

A lot of people in your own field won't even care about you, even if you were some David West-tier philologist, unless you have lots of Twitter followers with funky classics memes with some bullshit book on the backburner about how the ancient world had its own social media, or how the elite writers of old 'occluded' resistances to colonialism and gender in the ancient world. Your best hope is to go all in on Greece, preferably philosophy or religion---though rhe latter is almost all-in on the 'Ancient Greek religion is just imported from the wogs' meme atm---though it seems to weed out the complete idiots who can nonetheless grasp some Latin. If you go all-in on philosophy you'll have a huge advantage over the vast majority of philosophers, who horrifically misread the ancients due to lack of language and context.

[Anonymous No.14809272]

>>14809256
>. If you go all-in on philosophy you'll have a huge advantage over the vast majority of philosophers, who horrifically misread the ancients due to lack of language and context.
This, and a leg up in historical linguistics -- if you have to be passable to 'decolonialism', just say your de-Teutonicizing the proto-Nazi understanding of antiquity, lel

[Anonymous No.14809360]

>>14809256
Back when I was studying Philosophy and told people that's what I was studying, they usually asked me something like "Ok, tell us something deep about, like, Being and the meaning of life and stuff.", allowing me to take a minute or two to quote stuff from like Aristotle or Nietzsche or Kant.
On the other hand, whenever some of my friends said that they were studying civil engineering or industrial engineering, they usually got briefly answered with something like "Oh, I've got two uncles who studied that. I bet you'll be able to get a job in lots of places.", which is why I felt bad for them, since they didn't even get the opportunity to tell people about what they were studying, even though I think hearing somebody talk about topography, geology, and production processes can be just as interesting as talking about metaphysics or Aristotelian syllogisms.
Hell, I'd say even the rules of matrix multiplication can be somewhat more interesting than Barbara and Celarent.

[Anonymous No.14809393]

>>14806976
Any info found in those classes can be found online at your own leisure. Going to school for it will costs tonnes of money, and all it'll get you is a worthless participation trophy.

[Anonymous No.14809541]

>>14809253
Yeah, did consider politics, although don't think I can bring myself to drag my life through the mud of public discourse and general insincerity and subterfuge that is and I suppose always will be politics. Generally just dislike the public as a large as well and suspect I'd hate having to carefully tiptoe around my life and avoiding or hiding un-sanctioned views to appease the common public

Although then again, Johnson doesn't seem to be suffering too much from his sincere approach

[Anonymous No.14809566]

>>14809393
What you fail to understand is that the classroom performs two key roles: 1) external motivation via peers, and 2) correction via the instructor.

[Anonymous No.14809578]

>>14809566
>1) external motivation via peers, and 2) correction via the instructor.
so..peer pressure and bullying?

[Anonymous No.14809602]

>>14809566
If you have to motivate yourself to learn something basically useless, why are you doing it?
Both correction and peers can be found on the internet in copious amounts. Get one thing wrong and five autists will compete over who can correct you the hardest.

[Anonymous No.14809649]

>>14807819
What do you have against being a professor?

[Anonymous No.14809652]

Do it OP. My only regret from college is not manning the fuck up and majoring in Classics. All degrees all majors are worthless if you can’t get behind what you’re studying. Finding a job is about who you know and a little luck. Don’t listen to people that immediately bring up “skillset” or “muh job market” whatever.

[Anonymous No.14809679]

>>14809652
>spend 4 years of your life and thousands of dollars on free information that's practically useless

Studying something that makes money will grant you more free time in which to learn anything you feel like.

[Anonymous No.14810133]

>>14809360
If the average person's interest is, for some reason, sparked by Classics, they'll usually ask about material shit loosely related to a trip they took to Italy/Greece, food, maybe something they saw on HBO (Spartans, Spartacus)---in fact you'll find half the students in classics are into it from recent media, complete neckbeards that want to study ancient warfare and wear μολὼν λαβέ tshirts. Even the odd linguist you'll come across is an autistic nerd to the point of the most literal borderline redundant readings of everything (ie write papers along the lines of, we can see that some governor in 200-whatever CE writing from Byzantium was promoting a narrative of superiority over rival political factions in the west. So? Which also raises the point that so much has been written on the apex of Greece and Rome that one often ends up picking over the carrion of late-empire trivialities.)

The idea that it's patrician, even at some of the better universities in the UK, is a 4chan meme. (One of the big shots at Cambridge is an erstwhile investment banker who puts out 'ironic' popular history books fucking yearly; his academic scholarship is trash, if it even needs to be mentioned. On the otherhand, one of the most linguistically rigorous and interesting scholars working right now is at a nowhere college in New Jersey and has her degree in comparative literature.)

[Anonymous No.14810140]

>>14808006
>Average /lit/ poster

[Anonymous No.14810150]

>>14810133
Name the two people you are going on about

[Anonymous No.14810176]

>>14809228
I’ve done a bit of research and it seems classics is still less woke than other fields, but it’s starting to become more woke. Emily Wilson’s somewhat recent translation of The Odyssey is an example of that. Luckily, the nature of the field is such that I don’t think it can ever be completely cucked and most of it is stuff pushed on people outside of the discipline itself. Just my opinion.

[Anonymous No.14810178]

>>14808006
>like the prestige of getting called smart because of what I'm studying, but didn't wanna study something STEM-related because I almost failed Calculus and Physics class

Textbook pseudo-intellectual. You're what's wrong with academics, please go away.

[Anonymous No.14810191]

>>14809652
I can second this as someone who wanted to do classics but didn’t.

[Anonymous No.14810205]

I really enjoyed my Classics degree and I plan on doing a PhD (I know I know, meme away). There is avenues for new scholarship, contrary to what the other anon said about translating Virgil and Cicero over and over again. Yes, some people will still do this but, at least in my case there is opportunity in Late Antiquity and Byzantine era studies. I focus on economic history and archaeology, both relatively open fields. There is always cool shit to dig up and lots of money from institutions to do it since it provides prestige for them. But as for economic historians studying that period, most come from the mainstream 'classical' or Chicago schools and have shit interpretations of what was happening. In regards to new translations: there is a massive corpus of Greek and Latin texts from church administration that are not translated at all. You just have to be flexible and find an avenue.

[Anonymous No.14810212]

>>14810176
https://www.oxfordstudent.com/2020/02/17/94749/

>The Oxford Student has been notified about a proposal by the Classics faculty to remove the study of Homer’s Iliad and Virgil’s Aeneid from the Mods syllabus, a decision which has surprised many across the faculty.

This proposal forms part of a series of reforms aimed to modernise the first stage of the Classics degree, known as Moderations (Mods), which take place during Hilary term of second year for all students taking Classics courses across the university.

The Mods course, which is assessed by a set of ten exams at the end of Hilary, has been increasingly criticised in recent years, due to the attainment gaps found between male and female candidates...

[Anonymous No.14810217]

>>14809097
The Arabic route seems quite interesting actually. Might look into it.
Thx anon.

[Anonymous No.14810223]

>Going to med school now
>Can only read books that I enjoy max 1 to 2 hours a day

[Q No.14810265]

Nope all you will get is subversion and politicized nonsense to the point where they won’t even have you read homer/Virgil the academy in itself is corrupted beyond repair I say let the universities rot and die

[Anonymous No.14810320]

>>14810205
Thanks for coming to this thread. I don’t know if you remember me but I’m the economics anon that wants to switch to classics after already earning a degree. You gave me good advice and a good reading list. It turns out I would only need to take about a year’s worth of courses to get the BA but my problem is they only offer the language courses during working hours and I need to keep my full-time job to cover tuition. Do you happen to know if there’s any way I could cover language requirements that would be satisfactory to graduate programs? I’m pretty much stalled until I figure this out.

[Anonymous No.14810349]

>>14810320
Yes! Nice to hear from you fren. I was wondering if anyone would remember me.

If you need Latin and Greek the best way would do a summer intensive program. A variety of schools conduct them in North American and other affiliated with schools in Europe so you can go over there and do it. If you can afford this, then that's probably the best way.

Where about are you?

[Anonymous No.14810363]

>>14806947
My father graduated with Classics. After graduation he lived off through his trust funds and eventually joined a company, he's a general manager now.

[Anonymous No.14810377]

>>14810265
Not from what I experienced. My language classes were focused entirely on learning the language. I read Virgil in Latin class - this was at mid-tier school. There are, ofc, 'Women in the Ancient World' classes, but it was legitimately interesting. Classics is still a very conservative field; very late (10-15 years) in adopting ideological and scholarship trends.

[Anonymous No.14810388]

>>14806976
Look at that field... Completely useless...

It can be learned on your 9wn at the library... Why do you need validation of a degree if you only want to learn it on your own...

Better to make a YouTube channel where you interview classics scholars about their work...

Your indoctrination in the degree marketing scheme is all that pushed you to get a degree....


Maybe you want a degree to share the misery of debt with others?

Maybe you want to extend your childhood by staying in college?

[Anonymous No.14810393]

>>14810320
Not anon, but depending on the University you might be able to challenge the courses by simply writing the exams given for the course--or by a specific exam they have arranged for challenges. Of course that presupposes you learn the languages by some other means. Besides requiring the credits (no doubt with a certain GPA), most likely you'll be required to show proficiency in whatever language by translating a passage on the spot given to you by the selection committee.

[Anonymous No.14810413]

>>14806947
In the U.K., if you go to one of the Russell group unis, classics degrees still carry a lot of weight. Similar to philosophy. You’re considered ‘very well educated’ and therefore good entry level management material. All the people I know who have them have got work in advertising, management consultancies, or banking. The actual relevance of the degree is immaterial - they just carry a lot of cachet. It used to be the biggest sourcing pool for barristers but that’s no longer the case.

[Anonymous No.14810491]

>>14810349
Northeastern US. Any courses I take at my current Uni are 100% paid for so I wanted to try to do it there and they offer a post-bacc in latin and greek. The problem is a BA with 1 year of language study is a requirement for entrance. Formally, I have neither.

>>14810393
I figured that might be an option. I would describe my latin/greek as beginner-intermediate but I’m learning on my own. Another issue for me is that my previous undergrad gpa wasn’t great but my post-grad courses are good so I don’t know how that would pan out. I have plan b’s and c’s I’m considering.

[Anonymous No.14810498]

>>14810413
imagine studying something like philosophy and going to work in something like advertising

[Anonymous No.14810519]

>>14810498
If you go into planning then yeah, you need to be a good thinker.

[Anonymous No.14810604]

>>14810491
They'll consider all your courses cumulatively, I'd imagine. Are you in any way a minority? I'm not being cynical to say that would significantly improve your chances of acceptance with less-than-perfect grades or even language attainments, especially in Classics. Apply at numerous schools in any case. I know absolute incompetents that have been accepted into Masters programs---and I dont even think of myself as a stellar student so I'm talking borderline retards. Often when a prof gives you a language quiz they're told to be forgiving. I've heard of students by their own accounts completely struggling through it just to get an eyeroll and a rubber stamp from the prof. The real weeding out happens at the PhD level anyway. Maybe you'll apply during a lean year in terms of applications, which is favorable. Another good way is to get involved with the classics department: go to events, get in with a student group, let them get to know your work.

[Anonymous No.14810797]

>>14810604
White male so no, but thank you for that advice. That’s all very helpful.

[Anonymous No.14810859]

>>14809649
Not that anon. But Grad school in the humanities is not worth it right now. Being a tenured professor is great, but being a tenured prof takes years and years of mindless grinding, having to deal with lots of work for little pay, navigating university politics, and luck

[Anonymous No.14811187]

>>14806947
You won't get a job.

I did philosophy and classics and now I'm an uber driver

[Anonymous No.14811223]

>>14811187
An uber driver is a job

[Anonymous No.14811372]

>>14811187
You could always apply to law school, or even grad school if you want to risk going that route considering the job market for professors that day. At least you’ll be in a field you love

t. Someone who switched from a philosophy degree to a CS degree because fuck it

[Anonymous No.14811909]

>>14806947
>Is getting a Classics degree worth it?

What do you need a degree for? All the resources you'd need are at your immediate disposal for free.

[Anonymous No.14811973]

got an offer at Edinburgh to do History and Classics

also somehow managed st andrews for History and Russian so im tempted

already done my alevels

[Anonymous No.14811974]

>>14811372
>Someone who switched from a philosophy degree to a CS degree because fuck it
is this post literally me?

[Anonymous No.14811982]

>>14809393
>tonnes
This is an American board

[Anonymous No.14811991]

>>14811982
Well, maybe Americans should learn to English.

[Anonymous No.14812002]

>>14806947
getting any degree is only worth it if you're already extremely motivated and have a plan. if you aren't co-authoring or collaborating with professors by the second half of your sophomore year, it wasn't worth it.

[Anonymous No.14812027]

>>14811187
kek, its all the same shit anyway, just depends how much of a jew you are.

[Anonymous No.14812662]

>>14810133
>>14810150
Name them.

[Anonymous No.14813050]

>>14809051
You’re bang on the money with this. Classics is one of the easiest routes into the Oxbridge experience (acceptance rates in some years exceed 50% at Cambridge), but most employers value it just as highly as any other Oxbridge humanities degree. Converting to law afterwards is painless and if you can get a training contract before graduating then free too.

Firms and chambers recruit 50/50 law/non-law anyway. Getting a first in Oxbridge law is hard af if you’re not autistically inspired by the material, but obviously way easier in classics if you actually enjoy the subject.

The only real problem is that you need legal work experience ideally at uni to succeed in job applications, which was students are usually in a more privileged position to secure than non law

[Anonymous No.14813091]

>>14806955
>Check the jobs market for that worth.
THERE'S NO REASON A CLASSICS DEGREE IS ANY LESS WORTHLESS THAN ANY OTHER, ESPECIALLY IF YOU PLAN TO GO TO LAW SCHOOL, MED SCHOOL, OR OBVIOUSLY AS AN ACADEMIC. SO MANY RETARDS ARE UNDER THE IMPRESSION THEY NEED TO MAJOR IN....BIO OR CHEM FOR MED SCHOOL. ACTUALLY THE THREE HIGHEST MED SCHOOL ACCEPTANCE MAJORS ARE HISTORY, CLASSICS, AND ENGLISH....

[Anonymous No.14813106]

>>14813050
IF YOU ARE SMART ENOUGH AND GET AWAY WITHIT, MY FAVORITE YEAR AT UNI BY FAR WAS IN FLORENCE STUDYING CLASSICS, ITALIAN, AND EXPLORING ITALY ANY CHANCE I GOT. I CAME FROM A MUCH BETTER SCHOOL THAN NYU BUT THEY STILL HAVE THE BEST PROGRAM IN FLORENCE AND YOU CAN APPLY FROM JUST ABOUT ANY IVY LEAGUE SCHOOL AND THEY WILL TAKE YOU.
THE BAD NEWS IS THAT THE DESCENDANTS OF THE GUY WHO LEFT NYU THEIR MANSION IN FLORENCE THAT THEY USE TO HOUSE STUDENTS, SO IF YOU ARE GOING TO SPEND A YEAR THERE WITH THE NYU PROGRAM, BETTER DO IT FAST AND BETTER COME FROM A GOOD SCHOOL.

[Anonymous No.14813130]

>>14806947
Only if you have the money and connections to go into politics, or the natural talent to become a professional writer.

[Anonymous No.14813140]

>>14813130
>Only if you have the money and connections to go into politics,
that's complete horseshit anon. I had a better bead start than most but got into exactly where
i wanted, with a classics degree, and despite
usc film only taking....3% or whatever it is.

[Anonymous No.14813306]

very interesting

Does anybody know the best schools in europe to study the classics? (especially ancient greek)

thanks.

[Anonymous No.14813310]

>>14813306
studying classics in greece or rome would be pretty based.

[Anonymous No.14813327]

>>14813310
I agree, but do you know any specific universities?

[Anonymous No.14813352]

>>14813327
LMU
Sapienza
But Cambridge/Oxford for the social prestige

[Anonymous No.14813393]

>>14810349
>>14810320

Would you be willing to repost the reading list or link the previous thread. Mightily interested.

[Anonymous No.14813631]

>>14813050
Out of the two, Cambridge or Oxford which would you most recommend?

The course is a year shorter at Cambridge and seems to be much more flexible (you can specialise and take modules just on classical philosophy and history I think). Although always felt that the name Oxford seemed to carry a lot more weight, although it appears trivial and superficial I have a feeling that the prestige and history of Oxford would go further - especially abroad (e.g. US) in terms of employment prospects

Any thoughts on whether this is even worth caring for, since going to be most likely selecting between either Cambridge or Oxford I think if I decide to go for the Classics degree

[Anonymous No.14813777]

>>14813631
i only know the cambridge system, and went with it because (1) i had a better chance of gaining entry with the grades i had, and (2) the shorter course meant i could pay 1 year less in fees. possibly oxford does have the greater international recognition, but hardly by much. perhaps the city design is more uniformly beautiful than that of cambridge, but really the difference lies more in size than prettiness.

frankly i don't think it's worth agonising over the difference, but i hesitate to say the course is more rigid at oxford than cambridge. at cambridge you have to do at least two modules in your first and second year out of linguistics, philosophy, history and art/arch in addition to literature, but in 3rd year you can specialise however you like, even pinching papers from other triposes (e.g. akkadian, modern greek language, romance linguistics, philosophy of mind). till 3rd year, however, the course is still very much dominated by 'set texts', on which the literature exams heavily concentrate. i think oxford has the same sort of thing, but their optional papers are more geared towards philosophy, and not necessarily the ancient kind. so you can actually sit papers in e.g. formal logic, whereas in cambridge the best you can do is to audit the lectures for such courses.

the way each faculty approaches language learning is a little different too. at cambridge if you have no latin you must undertake a latin-intensive prelim year before the rest of your course, making a 3 year degree into a 4 year one. then you start greek with everyone else in your second year. at oxford you can get admitted without latin/greek, provided you learn them once you arrive, but your degree is 4 years long no matter where you are languages-wise.

one last thing worth noting is that its a lot easier to change your course at cambridge than at oxford.
we have exams after every year, and if you do well enough you can ask to swap tripos after another successful interview. in contrast, oxford are loathe to let anyone change course before they've sat mods, which is after 2 years of study. so if it turns out you hate classics after 1 year out of 4, then you're in a bit of a pickle till your second year is over. even then, its not a sure thing that your college will let you swap course, owing to admin, mainly

[Anonymous No.14813892]

>tfw wanna go to uni for architecture but my parents want me to go to med school

[Anonymous No.14813899]

>>14813892
They can't send you to med school if you send them to dead school

[Anonymous No.14814886]

>>14813892
Are they paying for you or something?

[Anonymous No.14815161]

>>14809256
>Ancient Greek religion is just imported from the wogs
Isn't it the other way around?

[Anonymous No.14815175]

>>14806947
absolutely not.
t. classics professor.

[Anonymous No.14815178]

>>14806975
have fun getting a shitty phd and spending your late 20's/early 30's pursuing a job in an increasingly shirking market, anon

[Anonymous No.14815224]

>>14810223
Prepare for these 1 to 2 hours per day to evaporate in residency. Unless by the natural light you choose the patrician's path, radiology.

Come and drink the cup of enlightenment, brother.

[Anonymous No.14815252]

>>14813393
This was one of the main books I recommended for the other anon and used heavily for my thesis:

https://books.google.ca/books/about/Agrarian_Change_in_Late_Antiquity_Gold_L.html?id=TaElMgmwKdIC&redir_esc=y

[Anonymous No.14815289]

>>14813393
>>14815252
If you care, essentially my thesis argued that the take over of the Roman 'state' by the bureaucratic elite changed the patterns of recruitment. We always knew that the army became barbarized, obviously, but never really why or when. I showed it could be traced to the a law in the Theodosian Code during Valen's reign and was implemented due to pressure from elite.
Thanks for listening.

This expands on his earlier work, as is good as well:

https://books.google.ca/books?id=H1wwCwAAQBAJ&source=gbs_similarbooks

[Anonymous No.14815543]

>>14815175
Seriously or are you full of shit?

[Anonymous No.14815585]

>>14815289
Very interesting thank you. Do you mind me asking what your current profession is ?

[Anonymous No.14815593]

>>14811372
There's no jobs for professors in classics or philosophy. I could do that, then at the end still be an uber driver except with a Phd.

[Anonymous No.14815611]

>>14815585
I'm a bartender, since I didn't want do my PhD right away, but I head back to start it in the fall

[Anonymous No.14815680]

>>14815289
So why did this elite want the Army to become barbarized though?

[Anonymous No.14815719]

>>14815680
Essentially, before the aforementioned law, the state recruited quotas of soldiers from estates within the Empire. The elite advocated to change the 'in-kind' tax to one commuted to gold currency which Valens eventually conceded (in a small portion of the Empire). This grew and so the reason that Rome started to recruit outside the Empire was that the state now had huge amounts of gold but no actual recruits. In fact, based on wage rates of laborers on estates the landholders where willing to pay 10-12 times their annual salary to maintain them as tenant farmers rather than sending them as recruits in the form of taxation. Coincidentally, just after this law is passed the Goths arrive and are granted settlement in the Empire. They found the perfect manpower source which could be exploited. But as history showed, the Goths were not big fans of this arrangement. But essentially, the take away isn't that barbarians destroyed the Empire (they had a part in it of course), but rather that economic elites decisions then brought these situations to ahead.

[Anonymous No.14815956]

>>14815719
So, I had thought that the Roman army had recruited its ranks mostly from land owning citizens for most of the empire. So I would think much of the legion and ranks like Calvary would’ve been comprised of wealthier patrician class citizens. Then around 2nd century BC, there were shortages and army service was opened up to anyone and you could be awarded wealth or citizenry upon completion of service at which point much of the army would’ve been presumably comprised of many more plebeian class people than patrician which I guess would be the tenant farmers you’re referring to. You’re the. arguing that it went even further and the army was effectively opened up to become comprised mostly of barbarian mercenaries. Is that all right?

[Anonymous No.14815988]

>>14815956
Yes. What you described happened, but the time frame for my thesis was late 4th C., though the process began with Constantine. Settling non-Romans was something the Empire was always very good at, but the law changed the desire to do it properly.

[Anonymous No.14816087]

>>14815988
Really interesting, anon. Thanks for sharing.

[Anonymous No.14816118]

>>14816087
Thanks fren. I’m posting this from my job.

Where it gets more speculative, is that I think there was a faction that purposely undermined the Gothic settlement. Reading Marcellinus shows a settlement of some sort already in place. If you look at other settlements, say of the ‘laeti’, it appears that they conflicted with elite interests since they were granted land (called deserted land; difficult to explain in short here at work), and had close relations with the state. Anyways I think the goths has some agreement like this but got subverted.

[Anonymous No.14816634]

>>14816118
Very interesting. Will you be working on this theory in your PhD?

Also, I wanted to ask you how much freedom you expect to be given in your PhD. I’m curious if one wanted to focus on ancient philosophy and philology (my interests) if you could do so.

[Anonymous No.14816655]

>>14811982
Regardless of where you live, it would cost money, fucking NEET.

[Anonymous No.14816831]

>>14812662
If you had an opinion on them then you'd know who they were. If you don't know them, we don't care about your 20-minute internet search opinion.

[Anonymous No.14816835]

>>14816634
Yes, less about the speculation and more just proving the earlier changes of the economy/settlement and there interaction with the elites, etc. That theory about the purposeful muck up of the gothic situation doesn’t have too much evidence is more just a pet project.

As for freedom, find a supervisor who is closely associated with the project you want to work on in terms of their scholarship. Mine read my project and liked it but she’s an archaeologist so I’ll have to intergrate more that into it, which I also want to, so I’m happy. You have to be flexible too

[Anonymous No.14816901]

>>14816835
"The elites." Shudder. The byword for every upper and upper-middle class classics student with the cultural cache of being a white european in pursuit of a brand-name degree to act like anyone who ever wrote anything printed on parchment, son of a slave or otherwise, was "elite" while they themselves are humble, morally upright tellers of truth to (ancient) power. Congrats, you're a modern day classics cliche.

[Anonymous No.14816917]

>>14810388
>meanwhile, in Europe, tons of students enjoy their graduate studies with no debts nor pressure to continue into academia

[Anonymous No.14816979]

>>14816831
name them brah

[Anonymous No.14816993]

>>14816901
Lol. Of course it’s more nuanced than that dweeb. ELITE = LAND HOLDER. I’m taking about Late Roman Empire senators who own land across the empire and income rivals or supersedes whole provinces. The wealth and capital held by the very wealth of the late empire dwarfs the Republic’s richest by magnitude. They are absolutely dictating imperial policy. I’m not talk about a fucking retired solider who owns an estate in Egypt. That’s not an elite cocksucker.

[Anonymous No.14817021]

>>14816901
Imagine being this much of a vinegar pisser to someone who is obviously correct and much deeper into the subject matter than yourself lmao