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/lit/ - Literature

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14802552 No.14802552 [Reply] [Original]

Lingua Latina was recommended on here before and I remember a French equivalent but I forgot the name. Any others you would recommend? Is it a good idea to start language learning with monolingual textbooks?

>> No.14802565

>>14802552
If there is a French book like this, I really need to know.

As for Linua Latina, yes it's very, very good.

>> No.14802583
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14802583

>>14802552
>>14802565
The same company that created Lingua Latina have similar "natural method" textbooks for English, French, and Italian.
>Italian: (L'italiano secondo il metodo natura)
>http://b-ok.cc/book/2884212/6d9440
>French: (Le français par la méthode nature)
>http://b-ok.cc/book/2884211/99cec2
good luck anons!

>> No.14802591

>>14802552
>Roma in Italia est.
Most satisfying first phrase ever honestly.

>> No.14802597

>>14802565
here's one for french that's from the 1880s. guess how it explains colors.

https://archive.org/details/firstfrenchbook00wormgoog/page/n28/mode/2up

>> No.14802599

>>14802583
Great, thanks!

>>14802597
Haha looks fun, thanks friend!

>> No.14802601
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14802601

>>14802597

>> No.14802622

Poco a Poco is this for Spanish. Athenaze is this for Ancient Greek (NOTE: I've been told that the "story" in Athenaze is more "adult" than that of LLPSI).

>> No.14802653

>>14802583
Thanks a lot!
Also I found this blog page which lists a lot of the books mentioned in this thread along with others for German and Icelandic.

>> No.14802661

>>14802622
I've only read the first pages but Athenaze is not pure nature method, it has a ton of text in Italian, after every chapter there are pages in Italian that explain, and translations are just given for majority of words.

>> No.14802669

>>14802653
Post a link pls

>> No.14802737

>>14802669
https://blog.nina.coffee/2018/08/27/all_nature_method_books.html

>> No.14802782

>>14802737
she's completely correct in gushing over those ilya frank books, they are fantastic and it's a huge shame they're only available in russian. it's basically a parallel translation/gloss of an unadapted classic novel but it's interleaved with the text of the original in a different font so that you can just read the original and only glance at the translation when you need to. i honestly think this is better than a monolingual book as this whole idea of only ever seeing the target language just seems like superstition to me. the point is getting a lot of comprehensible input and if the quickest way to make the input comprehensible is with a translation then it's fine to use a translation. i'd rather have a real book with a translation than these dull artificial texts that have to be extremely contrived to remain comprehensible while using the target language only.

unfortunately my russian is not quite strong enough to use this method for harder material. i was thinking about writing a python script or something to generate my own version of it, interleaving the text of a target language epub with an english translation on every punctuation mark or something, but i don't think any normal translation is ever going to be literal enough for that sort of thing to not go out of sync immediately, and as soon as you do it in bigger chunks like whole paragraphs your ability to find the translation with only a quick glance is lost and everything slows down to a crawl.

>> No.14802905

>>14802782
A poor selection but better than nothing:
http://english.franklang.ru/index.php/ilya-frank-s-reading-method

>> No.14802917

These resources may also be appreciated by some:
http://vergil.classics.upenn.edu/vergil/index.php/document/index/document_id/1
gottwein.de

>> No.14804245

>>14802552
bump

>> No.14804258

i have a getman version of lingua latina. the font is so retarded its unreadable

>> No.14804366

>>14802583
>>14802737
>>14802905
Where the FUCK was all this shit when I was starting to learn French and Italian?

>> No.14804459

it's funny that modern "improvements" in language education are horseshit timewasters like duolingo and these much more sensible methods are so old the maps of the world have pre-ww2 or even pre-ww1 borders, the german is in gothic script, and colors are introduced with the sentence "the negro is black, the chinaman is yellow"

>> No.14804491

>>14804459
It's not flashy, interactive, gamified

>> No.14805014

>>14802552
Marcus, qui puellam pulsat, puer improbus est.

>> No.14805022

Grumio stuprat Marcum.

>> No.14805036

>>14805022
Based and Cambridgepilled.

>> No.14805113

>>14805014
Is there a bigger villain in all literature than Marcus?

>> No.14805167

>>14805113
Marcus malus maximus est.

>> No.14805175

>>14802552
Anyone got one for Chinese?

>> No.14805234

>>14802583
wtf didn't know it also existed for other languages. Is it any good? has anyone read it?

>> No.14805308

>>14804258
lol the gothic script

>> No.14805368

Anybody got something like this for Hebrew or Norse?

>> No.14805420

>>14802552
https://4chanint.fandom.com/wiki/The_Official_/int/_How_to_Learn_A_Foreign_Language_Guide_Wiki

might be useful, has some nice advice for language learning imo

>> No.14805742

>>14805420
>Most people can't stand studying grammar. Yet without grammar, one cannot expect to achieve a reasonable level of fluency. It may be boring but the rewards far outweigh the boredom. Think of learning a language like mathematics: if you don't know basic arithmetic, you have no chance of doing algebra.
horrible advice. even ignoring the fact that every child on earth learns without grammar and focusing entirely on adults learning a second language there is still a large body of evidence that fluent grammar is learned intuitively from reading and listening without any conscious memorization, and most people who study languages seriously figure this out sooner or later. this guy has most likely never trained a language to fluency and is just repeating random advice that "sounds reasonable" to him rather than writing from experience. typical /lit/ guide.

>> No.14805757

>>14805742
What are you even talking about, everybody who learns a language studies its grammar.

>> No.14805826

>>14805757
The whole point of this thread is books that use a method where one doesn't explicitly study grammar rules.

>>14805742
>typical /lit/ guide.
It's actually an /int/ guide though

>> No.14805874

>>14805757
nobody that is actually good at languages learns them by grammar. it's a complete misunderstanding of what a language even is. it's an intuitive skill and trying to teach it through conscious grammar knowledge completely sabotages it. you will never, i repeat, never be able to reach fluency if you rely on conscious grammar knowledge to encode and decode messages. this guy telling you that you need to learn a language like it's math makes as much sense as learning dancing like it's math.

>> No.14807104

>>14805368
There's both on the Ilya Frank website. But they are in Russian.

>> No.14807880

>>14805167
>malus maximus
Ah, so that's how you say 最悪 in Latin.
Not too different from Spanish, I see.

>> No.14807891

>>14805874
The average /lit/fag treats classical languages as an extension of learning to become virtuous by the means of reading Ancient Greek poetry and ethics treatises, so don't assume that they actually understand the difference between descriptive knowledge and procedural knowledge.

>> No.14808753

>>14807880
More precisely it should be:
Marcus maleficus maximus est.

>> No.14809878

>>14802583
Thanks.

>> No.14810030

>>14807880
>>14808753
Malus = bad, evil.
Maleficus = bad man, villain.

>> No.14811010

>>14805874
Do both at the same time ffs, don't ignore grammar.

>> No.14811067

>>14811010
Listen. You don't need to study any grammar. It's literally a waste of time and will slow you down.

>> No.14811092

>>14811067
If you want to understand and communicate in a language at a basic level, take his advice. If you wish to be more competent, grammar is necessary.

>> No.14811131

Any books that do this for german?

>> No.14811190

>>14805874
Retard

https://youtu.be/Oudgdh6tl00

Gonna claim he's full of shit too?

>> No.14811243

>>14811092
You don't need any grammar study to have native fluency.

>> No.14811244

>>14802552
Any like this for Chinese?

>> No.14811293

>>14811067
>>14811243
I want to believe this but is it really possible without a very high amount of immersion? I still on occasion look up grammar for my native language and I don't think it has made me regress at all.

I feel like it's an 80/20 split, immersion and grammar.

>> No.14811328

>>14811293
Just watch >>14811190

>> No.14811375

>>14811328
No.

>> No.14811392

Just browse foreign imageboards all day.

>> No.14811464

>>14811293
Some grammar will be useful in knowing how to write well, if you want to write in the language, but it's not really as useful for speaking or reading.

>> No.14811477

What's your target language, /lit/?

>> No.14811494

>>14802552
Not sure if I want to learn Italian, French, or finish learning Spanish already. Have no use for any of them besides spanish and although I want to learn German for the philosophy I struggle to do so.

>> No.14811496

>>14811477
Portuguese for Pessoa. But I found a grammar book on libgen that teaches Spanish/Italian/Portuguese/French comparatively. I feel like I should finish my Latin however before starting any more languages.

>> No.14811516

>>14811496
care to link it ?

>> No.14811530

>>14811516
>https://libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=BD8BD08BB2A8FA2D69481FD8C6C8CEE1
Best of luck anon. I will be taking this on within a two weeks when I finish Wheelocks latin (on chp 24 out of 40).

>> No.14811566

>>14811477
Currently studying latin but I want to learn Portuguese
I already know English and Spanish

>> No.14811623

>>14805175
i think that would be impossible for english speakers.

>> No.14811633

>>14805742
you are a retarded pseud. studying grammar is the most time-sensitive way to learn a language.

>> No.14811646

>>14811464
stfu retard

>> No.14811648

>>14811293
For a living language, such as Spanish, German, modern Greek, Japanese (SPEAKING, not READING), Mandarin (SPEAKING, not READING), yes, you don't need to study a lick of grammar. The problem is, with dead languages like Latin and Ancient Greek, especially today, you're very unlikely to find someone to speak these languages in any meaningful sense with. Quoting Homer or quibbling about the Vulgate don't count as meaningful conversation. Most of what you'll be doing is reading, and if you're lucky and find a penpal or some such, writing.

This is especially the case with Latin and Greek, both of which, historically, were taught via memorizing conjugation and declension tables. In the Ancient world, education in grammar (in the modern sense) was done through drill. The actual learning of the language was done through immersion of course, but learning the PROPER language was done through sheer memorization and rote learning. In every day speech, speakers of both would use improper words, the wrong conjugation (example turning "Pontifex, pontifices into Pontificus, pontinfici), completely misuse the relation between the ablative/dative, use constructions for the passive voice, entirely neglect the subjunctive mood, etc.

Memorize the conjugation and declension tables while immersing. Do LLPSI, and then read as much as you fucking can. Doesn't matter from who, just read it. Latin has over two thousand years worth of material to read, after all.

>> No.14811672

>>14802597
fucking laughed

>> No.14811684

>>14811530
Thank you anon, best of luck to you too. You can do it.

>> No.14811716

>>14811190
just gonna paste this video here for everyone to look at
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnGOrXh1dvY