Conservative Socialism

[Anonymous No.14798238]

I think we should create a Conservative Socialism chart. I think it’s becoming a new movement.

What it is:
>Socialism that wishes to uphold traditions like family and community that predate capitalism.
>Okay with nationalism and religion when it is not violent.
>Is NOT fascism or national socialism.
>Promotes labor unions as communities that protects workers.
>Welfare State, but doesn’t involve too much in family life. Doesn’t seek to replace family bureaucracy.

Lasch is probably the best example I can think of now.

[Anonymous No.14798246]

So basically, the first three books I would put on are all by Lasch:

> The Culture of Narcissism: American Life in an Age of Diminishing Expectations
> The True and Only Heaven: Progress and Its Critics
> The Revolt of the Elites: And the Betrayal of Democracy

[Anonymous No.14798253]

I would just say that if it is anti-violent then it isn’t very conservative. Violence, like family and community, as you put it, also predates capitalism. If you don’t come to terms with the inevitability and necessity of violence you won’t be successful as a movement. I like the idea of conservative socialism, by the way. Haven’t thought of that before.

[Anonymous No.14798263]

>>14798253

Maybe I’m not to clear, but I think conservative socialism, while okay with tradition, probably wants to do away with violent ways that promote death in barbaric ways.

Also, I think it would be against anything like interventionism or empire-building. It wants to stay focused on its own people.

[Anonymous No.14798264]

>>14798253
Also, as a corollary of that, I think it’s important to have an armed general population. People should be trained in proper use of guns, and they should own them.

[Anonymous No.14798268]

>>14798238
> Guys let's make a NatSoc chart, but call it something different because we're edgy

[Anonymous No.14798294]

>>14798238
if you want to delineate this from fascism you're gonna have to take a hardline stance against nationalism

[Anonymous No.14798295]

>>14798264
I would definitely be okay with gun ownership for the most part, but maybe not high grade weapons.

>>14798268
Do you think Lasch has any ideological similarities with Nazism?

[Anonymous No.14798304]

Another book I would fine interesting to add.

[Anonymous No.14798306]

so…you want socialism…that is nationalized…but is NOT national socialism. ok buddy. that is definitely not national socialism, and is instead a brand new movement, yes.

[Anonymous No.14798312]

>>14798294

Maybe I shouldn’t have used the term nationalism.

But patriotism, love of country, and being okay with cultural traditions is really what I mean.

[Anonymous No.14798316]

>>14798306
That’s why I used the term conservative.

[Anonymous No.14798318]

>>14798268
National Socialism is a particularist Germanic ideology that might occupy that left-economics right-culture quadrant, but certainly does not monopolize it. Italian fascism, national syndicalism, weimar revolutionary conservatism, catholic integralism, authoritarian corporatist regimes of various kinds (the portugese estado novo, Peronist national-populism) and the left-right populist movements of the 1890s (and today) all fit the bill.

>>14798238
I would add McIntyre's After Virtue, Deneen's Why Liberalism Failed, and Eugene Mccarraher's Enchantments of Mammon

[Anonymous No.14798325]

Prussian socialism?

[Anonymous No.14798339]

I know it’s Tucker Carlson, but...

[Anonymous No.14798432]

what about immigration?

[Anonymous No.14798469]

>>14798238
And how´s that different from good ol´ soyuz?

[Anonymous No.14798535]

The best you're going to get is some sort of distributism or feudalism. Socialism is too materialistic but even if we ignore that entirely, it's just not practical because of the knowledge problem. There's no way for centralized distributor to know what exactly needs to go where and in what amount that is anyway comparable to capitalism's price coordinated distribution. This is why modern socialists, at least the ones that know what they're about, try to incorporate the market into their schemes. You could go that route but if all you want is a less efficient capitalism then why call for socialism?

[Anonymous No.14798553]

>>14798238
I'd unironically be a socialist if it wasn't for gay marriage

[Anonymous No.14798562]

>>14798238
>paleo-socialism
Triangulating on that could be a thing with a Bloomberg insertion over Sanders, yet again. Having read Lasch, that I remember that volume being fairly apropos, if wooly on the prescience side for its time (his characterization of what has become the grassroots left and right are facile broaching on National Review territory).

Reciprocity is North American tradition anywhere outside the metropolises -- Americans fundamentally want everyone to have a fair go at it, to do well on their own terms (provided they're not obliging others by way of the vote) -- having people on the dole is fundamentally degrading, let there be Federal warehouses doing the CostCo thing for deals on necessities in bulk rather than EBT cards; good quality, at or below market price until you're on your feet.

[Anonymous No.14798640]

>>14798238
>Welfare State, but doesn’t involve too much in family life. Doesn’t seek to replace family bureaucracy.
Your problem is that this is retarded. It's contradictory. Family life has been destroyed BY the welfare state. Turns out when you subsidize single motherhood you get single mothers. When you pay out benefits to the elderly they get shuttled off into nursing homes instead of living with their children.
Look at what the welfare state did to the black family in America. I've seen the exact same policies lead to the exact same result with the Maori in New Zealand. The welfare state is the problem.
Socialized healthcare? A possibility. I've lived in countries with it and it wasn't so bad--wait times go up but one might consider that an acceptable tradeoff. But handing out money, that's how you slaughter families. You want families, you give tax credits to stay-at-home moms.

[Anonymous No.14798895]

>>14798238
There's a lot of overlap between conservative socialism and distributism.

[Anonymous No.14799010]

"Conservative socialism" AKA "socialism without socialism" and therefore necessitated to fail

[Anonymous No.14800180]

it would make sense to draw from the movements and thinkers Lasch valorizes in TTaOH
>henry george
>orestes brownson
>johnathan edwards
>emerson
>reinhold neihbur
>the artisan movement
>sorel (and sorellian syndicalism)
>the republican (as opposed to liberal) countertradition from the rennaisance to the 19th Century
>Burke
>the early civil rights movement
of course it is a synthesis

[Anonymous No.14800243]

>>14798238
All of these Godless ideologies are doomed to fail.
Start with God, church and family.

[Anonymous No.14800265]

>>14798238
>>Socialism that wishes to uphold traditions like family and community that predate capitalism.
>>Okay with nationalism and religion when it is not violent.
>>Is NOT fascism or national socialism.
>>Promotes labor unions as communities that protects workers.
>>Welfare State, but doesn’t involve too much in family life. Doesn’t seek to replace family bureaucracy.


You just described Alexander Dugins 4th Political Theory

[Anonymous No.14800281]

>>14798238
What you're looking for is "Paternalistic Conservatism". You basically described "Moderate" National Bolshevism.

So much for being a meme ideology, amirite guys?

[Anonymous No.14800282]

>>14800265
but it's literally just a different type of national socialism

dugin is a meme who rips off german thinkers

[Anonymous No.14800294]

>>14800282
What OP described, is just a more moderate form of National Socialism, which is what both Lasch and Dugin want, although more economically left wing, like the Strasserists

[Anonymous No.14800325]

>>14800282
When you call someone a "Meme", can you actually talk about their specific policies that you think are "memes"?

Because when you say that, it sounds like you are just a pseud parroting what other people think about Dugin, rather than actually analysing his ideas and thinking for yourself

[Anonymous No.14800452]

>>14800281
FUCK I WANT TO WATCH JOJO

[Anonymous No.14800512]

>>14798253
>>14798238
>>14798263
Without violence there is no law.
>>14798264
The people not having access to guns is basically the reason socialism fails every time.

[Anonymous No.14801380]

>>14798238
No one here ever mentions how Franklin Roosevelt saved capitalism from the capitalists of the libertarian or anarchic bent. Nor do shills for government by for and of the 1% >>14798306 ever mention why government so construed is a gateway to disruptive crisis, the unraveling of the rule of law and the social fabric, and thence opportunity for authoritarians of the worst possible sort. For instance, this sort of insect >>14800512 whose only thought about statecraft is that whoever owns the most guns makes the rules.

[Anonymous No.14801421]

>>14798553
I bet you blame gay marriage for your marital status as well.

[Anonymous No.14801447]

>>14798253
It's not about violence, really, since all political ideologies commit to violence against someone; instead, you need to define who would be okay to commit violence against (e.g., those who would seek to undermine the community).

[Anonymous No.14801498]

>>14801380
Ugh, which country holds the mkst economic and political power on the earth?
Which one has a military that dwarfs the rest if the world combined?

Oh gee, they're one and the same? Imagine that.

[Anonymous No.14801532]

>>14801498
Cumbrains should be castrated and lobotomized because they do not like the faculty of reason.

[Anonymous No.14801693]

>>14801532
Truth be told, I hit the wrong file.
That said, why yes I do enjoy frequent self-gratification. How did you know?

[Anonymous No.14801744]

Definitely check out "The Southern Tradition" by Eugene Genovese. Ex-Communist turned traditionalisf Catholic, but still maintains his criticism of alienation of labor as well as capitalism degrading effect on culture

[Anonymous No.14802726]

>>14798238
Jean Claude Michea's "realm of lesser evil", states that liberalism regarding personal affairs and economic liberalism cant be seperated and formulates consequences the left has to take
Alain de Benoist's "Us and them" or whatever it's called in english, it's about the emergence of in group identity and how each individual relates to it's own group for becoming who they are.
Carl Schmitt's concept of the political, any thought that critizises liberalism and it's state destroying acts needs this book
Alasdair Macintyre's "end of virtue"
to a certain extent the works of Hermann Heller, but i dont know how many of them were translated into english, and I've personally only read "socialism and nation"
Qhaddafi's green book
perhaps Dugin, but I've only read his fourth political theory, so I don't know about his other works.
Lassalle also comes to mind.

[Anonymous No.14802769]

>>14798339
Tucker is based

[Anonymous No.14802796]

>>14801693
Cringe

[Anonymous No.14802837]

The Frankfurt School are socially conservative even if those ideas aren't made explicit. I've always imagined Marxism as based on conservative values, the liberalization of the left occurred first in the 1960s idpol movements

[Anonymous No.14802902]

>>14802837
What the hell do you think conservatism is?

[Anonymous No.14802906]

>>14798238
Simone Wei's work, especially "The Need of Roots" and her idea of uprootedness are relevant here, I think (nevermind that this is from Wikipedia, it's a surprisingly good summary):

> The work [The Need for Roots] diagnoses the causes of the social, cultural and spiritual malaise which Weil saw as afflicting 20th century civilisation, particularly Europe but also the rest of the world. 'Uprootedness' is defined as a near universal condition resulting from the destruction of ties with the past and the dissolution of community. Weil specifies the requirements that must be met so that peoples can once again feel rooted, in a cultural and spiritual sense, to their environment and to both the past and to expectations for the future. The book discusses the political, cultural and spiritual currents that ought to be nurtured so that people have access to sources of energy which will help them lead fulfilling, joyful and morally good lives. A leading theme is the need to recognise the spiritual nature of work.

[Anonymous No.14802939]

>>14802902
Why don't you try reading them instead of your bullshit meme politics

[Anonymous No.14802949]

>>14802939
You have no idea what I read or believe. Eat a dick.

[Anonymous No.14802966]

I'm glad that Straßerisms is being revived globally. Recommended reading: My Friend Hitler by Yukio Mishima.

Also Death in June is obsessed with Straßerist national socialism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a04yy3Mv6BY

Against all vulgar readings, this is a song written from a straßerist perspective in the days of the SA struggles.

Hitler was a power-hungry buffoon, Straßer was a martyr.

[Anonymous No.14802968]

These threads always end up really based for some reason. Good recs in here lads

[Anonymous No.14802986]

>>14801421
I do blame gay marriage for my marital status. If it weren't for gay marriage I wouldn't be gay married and instead would still be free to hang out with the fisting guys at Bill's house.

[Anonymous No.14802999]

>>14798238
I just noticed this.
Narcissification.
Nar-sissy-fication.
Nar-sissy-sm
Narcissism.

Could it be a coincidence when sissy-hypno is inexorably interlinked with narcissism?

[Anonymous No.14803045]

>>14802999
Autogynephilia is a type of narcissism.

[Anonymous No.14803440]

Mon combat by H., A.

[Anonymous No.14804597]

>>14803045
this tbqfh