[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/lit/ - Literature

View post   
File: 278 KB, 815x863, DEC65685-C8C6-42C7-82C7-13E4C7659B86.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14787038 No.14787038 [Reply] [Original]

How do atheists reconcile with Pascals wager?

>> No.14787045

>>14787038
How do theists?

>> No.14787048

>>14787038
I have the utmost faith that the personal Christian god which doles punishment and reward after death does not exist

>> No.14787055

>>14787048
based and faithpilled

>> No.14787056

It doesn't tell me which God to bet on.

>> No.14787071

By performing the eternally recurrent ritual of Pascalposting on /lit/.

>> No.14787080

>>14787038
Do you fall for Nigerian prince email scams? Is there not a very slight chance that they are true?

>> No.14787140

Pascals wager gets immediately BTFO'd because anyone could come up to you and say "kill yourself and you'll go to heaven", and that puts an infinite positive value on killing yourself so you logically have to do it; but then someone else could come up as you're about to pull the trigger and say "don't kill yourself and you'll go to heaven" and now you there is an infinite positive value on not killing yourself, but also on killing yourself. It would turn the world into some fucked up version of that movie "Yes Man".

>> No.14787211

>>14787056
Only the Abrahamic God threatens punishment if not believed in. Zeus or Osiris could not care less if you believe in them or not because your soul will only be judged on a moral basis

>> No.14787248

>>14787140
>no morality

>> No.14787271
File: 260 KB, 1685x1930, pascal.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14787271

>>14787038
How do Christians?

>> No.14787281

>>14787038
Nice bait

>> No.14787355

>>14787038
By remembering that he was a jansenite and therefore considered a heretic by most Christians.

>> No.14787402
File: 539 KB, 2048x1959, 1580763321035.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14787402

>>14787038
We chuckle sympathetically and get on with our day. How else to respond to something so childishly stupid?

>> No.14787432

>>14787038
Not even any self-respecting theists should deal with this kind of spineless, calculating, piss-poor excuse for argument. I believe in God but not because I have anything to gain out of it, God isn't a slot machine.

>> No.14787596

Pascal's Wager is the most retarded argument ever. A 2-year-old could disprove it. Wasn't this nigga supposedly smart?

>> No.14787611

>>14787596
>>14787432
>>14787402
>>14787355
Oh no nono pascalbros we got too coky

>> No.14787625

>>14787048
>punishment
but you choose it anon

>> No.14787667

>>14787596
how could a 2 year old disprove it?

>> No.14787678

>>14787038
Do you think God can't tell the difference between genuine and calculating belief?

>> No.14787702

>>14787667
Because what if the actual God isn't Yahweh but instead some African bingombu who sends you to Hell for following Yahweh?

>> No.14787711 [DELETED] 

>>14787038
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RyYPPTcoCiU

aquinas and pascal get obliterated in under 3 minutes. why are all christcuck """"""intellectuals"""""" such lightweights?

>> No.14787832
File: 84 KB, 640x698, religion is not important if you are not a niger.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14787832

>> No.14787860

>>14787832
Is this why the ones on the left are currently filling themselves with as much of the right as possible?

>> No.14787883

>>14787860
dont Christians view everyone as equal?

>> No.14787901

>>14787883
Not the question, and equal before the eyes of God does not have a thing to do with equal culturally or politically.

>> No.14787919

>>14787901
Christians support minorities and immigration of minorities into white countries

>> No.14787959

>>14787919
I'll let you take five minutes to research the boards of directors for all the "Christian" ministries and NGOs which facilitate this sort of thing. Tell me how many Christians you find.

>> No.14788007

>>14787959
do i really have to? i dont care that much if you believe me, it would be a waste of time for me to have to do this

>> No.14788050

>>14788007
No, you don't have to, but what I'm saying is that you're making sweeping statements based on the co-opting of the Christian faith by a handful of very public and very disingenuous organizations. There is nothing cohesive about Christian views on immigration, nor is there anything incompatible between Christianity and the desire to preserve one's own way of life. This has never been a controversial thought until very recently in the public discourse.

This all aside, this doesn't change the fact that the countries with the least religiously influenced populace seem to be doing the most to bring in religious Africans, so I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

>> No.14788106

>>14788050
The only thing I mind about Christianity, is that I dont believe that every human is equal

>> No.14788123

Which God?
or: Pascal's Mugging

>> No.14788150

>>14788106
Define equal. Not being snarky, what do you mean by this term? Deserving of equal opportunity? Equal in intelligence or usefulness or beauty or some other quality? Equally worthy of your personal esteem?

I don't think Christianity asks any of this, nor should it. We are "equal" in the eyes of God, which is to see we are all held to a standard of moral responsibility and conversely, moral potential. This doesn't mean I have to like everyone, only love them. Love can exist where affection doesn't.

>> No.14788154

>>14787596
He was a mathematician who had a religious experience that he interpreted through reason. The Wager isn't an 'argument' so much as it is a way to entice his readers into developing a personal relationship with God: there is a "God-sized hole" inside every man that needs to be filled, and to do so (and reap the benefits) you must overcome 'rational' secular doubt. It's a gambit.

>> No.14788163

>>14788150
>Love can exist where affection doesn't.
get off this board, mom
I know it's you

>> No.14788171

>>14787211
good job obfuscating by saying "Abrahamic God". which one am i supposed to worship. not to mention i doubt you know all the world's gods and the punishment they threaten

>> No.14788193

>>14788154
Not just a mathematician, but a genius all around. Made significant contributions to physics and invented important devices. I just love how these atheists have nothing to say when you bring up that the vast majority of significant science contributors were deeply religious. I mean really the greats of the sciences

>> No.14788239

>>14788193
They were men of their time

>> No.14788311

>>14788154
>>14788193
I agree, he was a genius. Deeply religious thinkers treat the work they do as a form of worship, which I think explains some of the brilliance of figures like Dante/Mallory/Pascal. Obviously they had tremendous innate talent, too.

If you're happier and more productive as a theist, why not just be one?

>> No.14788324

They can’t. Atheists are terrified of the notion of God existing deep down, so they pretend it doesn’t bother them. Always in the back of their mind there remains a tiny sliver of doubt, reminding them that hellfire could await.

>> No.14788326

>>14788193
The funny thing is how theists believe this is a good thing. That people who could otherwise explain everything by just pointing to god seem to be so unnerved by his lack of presence that they look for science to find answers. Even if you cherry pick "deeply religious" people to claim they are the greatest (I'm guessing you think Galileo was deeply religious too for instance), you still have the problem of "Why would a deeply religious person turn to science in any way shape or form"?

Deep down you know they doubt god. Anything else is mental gymnastics.

>> No.14788343

>>14788324
What? I don't know about fedora tippers, but most non-dogmatic atheists are pretty open about wishing that God was real

>> No.14788366

>>14788326
This post is just massive cope. Gallileo was religious, yes, do you disagree? Newton and Leibniz are two others. As for your claim that you can’t be religious and scientist, I can only disagree. Why would you not want to study Gods creation? There is beauty in this world, and we want to know more about it. Lastly, it just sounds like some odd projection to me that you think these people were posers and were in reality atheist. Not only can’t you back it up but they also spent a lot of time philosophizing about religion and God

>> No.14788383

>>14788324
this is bullshit. you're obviously projecting

>> No.14788388

>>14788343
That has not been my experience at all. IMO, an atheist who wishes God was real is just a Christian having a crisis of faith. Most of the atheists I know consider the existence of God to be a distant and absurd proposition that has no bearing on life. Like, you may as well wish the sky was green.

>> No.14788410

>>14788366
There's a screed against atheists at the start of Descartes' Meditations on First Philosophy. It always struck me as odd. As far as I know there were no self-professed atheists back then, it seems like it was mostly an accusation used to discredit people

>> No.14788429

>>14787038
>cheating
I have morals, you know.

>> No.14788434

>>14788410
It was projection. He was seething at the atheist lurking within his own soul.

>> No.14788445

>>14788434
Yeah, that was how I felt about it as well. Had a real "lady doth protest too much" vibe

>> No.14788466

>>14788410
I think you're right. I read somewhere that using the term "atheist" to describe someone in the Middle Ages was like calling him feeble-minded. Maybe an "atheist" could also just be someone who was sacrilegious and had no virtue? Plenty of heathens who fit that description.

>> No.14788481

>>14787038
I don't care about suffering anymore. Life is already suffering enough. If the Omnipotent Merciful Daddy wants to put me in more suffering just because I refuse to acknowledge his existence (and rightfully so because I have no ground to do so) then so be it. Eternal suffering abound!

>> No.14788488

>>14788383
>muh projection
I’m not the atheist here. I win the Wager either way

>> No.14788490

>>14788388
When confronted with radicals like yourself moderates will automatically take the opposite stance.
>christian god exists you're going to burn in hellfire if you don't worship him
>"that's ridiculous"
>100% god isn't real only science exists praise science
>"that's ridiculous"
On the other hand
>i can't bring myself to really believe in God but I hope one exists and there's something after death
>"yeah me too"

>> No.14788492

>>14787038
they don't reconcile, they're too stupid to consider it seriously. They're atheist for a reason

>> No.14788499

>>14788481
Brainlet

>> No.14788512

>>14788499
Can you explain more? I'm so much of a brainlet that I don't understand why you called me so.

>> No.14788535

>>14788512
Why would you gloat when faced with eternal suffering? This little limited life we live is nothing compared to eternity, so stop speaking so surely about what you would accept after your death

Dante would probably be a good read for you. Particularly Inferno

>> No.14788544

>>14788535
Dante was a Cathar. He did not believe in eternal punishment.

>> No.14788560

>>14788488
>win the Wager
Despite your belief in God, you are still a petty and mean-spirited individual

>>14788490
Radicals like myself? I am also an atheist, and not one of the "evangelical" ones. It's mostly something I keep to myself. I do not hope for a god, or an afterlife. Most of the atheists that I have talked to about this seem to feel similarly. I feel like the longing to believe in God will eventually lead to legitimate belief.

>> No.14788562

>>14788544
>Dante was a Cathar.
?

>> No.14788578
File: 156 KB, 1366x496, 57439866_2343245402663729_4195174667180310528_o.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14788578

>>14788562
You know, the heretical gnostic sect that was persecuted by the Church? Yeah, he had to keep it very low key, but a close study of the text and his life reveals his Cathar affiliations beyond a shadow of a doubt.

>> No.14788584

>>14788535
>Why would you gloat when faced with eternal suffering?
Why not? Haven't you heard the alternative argument? That we suffer, die, and live again ad infinitum until we are saved? As I see it, whether Daddy exists, or that transmigration is real, or even that the physical is all that there is, in all cases, we are fucked. This is the primary truth and it is all that is certain. All the other questions come second.

>> No.14788585

>>14788481
based

>> No.14788586

>>14788578
What the fuck are you talking about? I know what Catharism is but this is news to me that Dante would be a Cathar.

>> No.14788593

>>14788584
This is cringe, dude. You give us a bad name.

>> No.14788606

>>14788586
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLdXvS1EAz91JfMO_LOKMGiL3O4ac0BZv5

>> No.14788609

>>14788593
I give whom a bad name? I don't even identify with any of your groups.

>> No.14788633

>>14788606
>obscure 12 videos series by random italian female weirdo
Yeah ok. That aint gonna do it for me. Regardless, read Dantes Inferno and stop being so cocky in front of eternity, humble yourself lad

>> No.14788643

>>14788633
>i refuse to listen to anything you say and don't give a shit. b-b-b-but you're the one who should humble himself

>> No.14788648

>>14788643
It just seems odd to me that a mainline Catholic writer would be a Cathar. That’s conspiracy theory, go to /x/ with that shit

>> No.14788649

>>14788643
kek

>> No.14788658

>>14788609
I'm sure you fall into at least a few

>> No.14788669

>>14788593
>>14788658
>religiontard falseflagging to shame anon into religion
Does your God permit being so manipulative?

>> No.14788678

>>14788648
Kek, he wasn't "mainline catholic". One of his books was literally put on the list of "prohibited materials". I think it was his book on monarchy, not sure off the top of my head. He also belonged to a weird esoteric group of poets called the Fedeli d'Amore

>> No.14788679

>>14788669
I'm an atheist you dipshit. All this "punish me Daddy" shit is cringe, full stop.

>> No.14788685

>>14787038
I need more than a "what if" to give a fuck about something so easily traced to lame origins as Christianity.

>> No.14788689

>>14787702
Nothing to do with the possibility of a 2 year old disproving Pascal.

You can't even deal with your own argument.

>> No.14788695

>>14788679
"It's cringe" is not an argument. OP asked how to reconcile with Pascal's wager, and my answer was not to care about the pain or pleasure that allegedly comes after death. It might cringe you to death, but it's still a valid answer.

>> No.14788741

>>14787038
It's just game theory.