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/lit/ - Literature

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Translations of classics? Anonymous Wed Jan 19 23:40:44 2011 No.1474517 [Reply] [Original]

So I've been reading the Fagles translation of the Iliad and am somewhat satisfied and was going to read his translations of The Odyssey and Aeneid but I've heard that the Fitzgerald translation of the Aeneid was superior. From the opening lines of the Aeneid I think I prefer the Fitzgerald but I think Fagles does a better job on the opening of the Iliad. However, as I'm reading the Iliad I have noticed that it's a bit dry? It's been enjoyable but I wouldn't mind reading something more poetic rather than this for another thousand pages. So what are some of the differences between the translations and what are your preferences? Do you prefer one translator across the board or a mix?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 19 23:43:44 2011 No.1474537 Are you the fucker who kept putting holds on the Iliad library copy?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 19 23:47:44 2011 No.1474557 >>1474537 No, the library here has two copies that are very much available.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 19 23:47:44 2011 No.1474560 >>1474537 What school do you go to that only has one copy of the Iliad?

Anonymous Wed Jan 19 23:47:44 2011 No.1474558

I read the Stanley Lombardo Iliad and Odyssey, then the Fagles Aeneid.

Lombardo's tone is markedly different from the other translations. His men talk like soldiers who have been at war for a decade, without women, without amenities. They are gruff. Their speech is peppered with expletives. It's not the lofty speech of orators but the tired, to-the-point talk of men stuck in a fox-hole.

Fagles' Aeneid was lyrical, musical, but not too lofty. The tone was more noble than Lombardo but still was very readable. I enjoyed it.

Lattimore does a better job of mirroring the original hexameters. The things seems very academic.

Fitzgerald is pretty good, highly poetic.

There's no reason to stick with the same translator. Feel free to pick what reads best to you.

>>	Adolf_Hipster Of Neo Germany Wed Jan 19 23:50:44 2011 No.1474574 What's the best edition of The Illiad? Was going to buy that soonish.

Anonymous Wed Jan 19 23:54:44 2011 No.1474589

>>1474574
What are you interested in? Authenticity to the source text? An enjoyable read? Metrical poetry?

There isn't really a "best" translation as much as there is different translations for different interests. Let us know what you're looking for and we'll try to pick one that works for you.

>>	Adolf_Hipster Of Neo Germany Wed Jan 19 23:58:44 2011 No.1474606 Saw the penguin edition when I got my copy of Crime and Punishment.

Anonymous Thu Jan 20 00:08:44 2011 No.1474654

>>1474589
OP here, all three? I mean authentic in that it reflects the style/feeling of the original which would also mean that it is metrical and enjoyable. I like how Fagles keeps the metaphors, repetition, and flourishes but I dislike his word choice. It's just feels plain and unepic, perhaps that was the style of Homer as well but I'm not an expert on this stuff.

Anonymous Thu Jan 20 00:18:44 2011 No.1474704

>>1474654
Probably Lattimore is what you'll like then. He was the standard for 50 years. His meter is very close to the original (loose hexameters instead of tight dactylic hexameter), his language is noble and epic, his poetry beautiful, his accuracy is excellent.

Anonymous Thu Jan 20 00:31:44 2011 No.1474755

>>1474704
I'm liking Lattimore, a bit less understandable than Fagles but it's as you described. It's even available free. Not sure if I'm going to switch over though, I'm already up to Book 18, but I'll definitely consider him for the Odyssey.

http://digital.library.northwestern.edu/homer/

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 20 02:21:44 2011 No.1475038 File: 41 KB, 640x480, 0027-1229115993458.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I-I'll just leave this here... https://records.viu.ca/~johnstoi/homer/homertranslations.htm >runs away

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 20 02:24:44 2011 No.1475050 >>1475038 Thanks, friend.

Anonymous Thu Jan 20 02:31:44 2011 No.1475066

Christopher Logue is a poet who has been translating the Iliad for almost 50 years. He speaks no Greek.

He's been working one book at a time, reading all the translations he can get his hands on to get an idea of what the underlying Greek text may have said. He obviously isn't trying for accuracy - he's aiming for art.

The gods in his stories are spoiled, vain, greedy, beautiful. They appear like celebrities, obsessed with their own goals and problems. They are complete narcissists running from one bed to the next while quaffing delicious wine and the finest foods.

His soldiers are men fed up with war. They are men who want women, good meals, and a break.

It's some of the most endearing poetry to appear in the English language in the last 40 or so years. If you can find a copy (he publishes one book at a time and doesn't look likely to finish his translation any time soon) you're in luck.

Anonymous Thu Jan 20 02:31:44 2011 No.1475065

Lattimore's Homer is the only one where you can, provided you know the greek, essentially retranslate it back to the original in your head. What higher praise could there be.

None of the Aeneid translations come close to Lattimore's unforuately. Fitzgerald is probably the best at reflecting the susbstance and spirit of the latin but not necessarily the most readable - for the same reason.

>>	Sellya Thu Jan 20 02:38:44 2011 No.1475080 File: 40 KB, 445x558, Johnny_Bravo_tv_01_Tribute_to_the_old_CartoonNetwork-s445x558-29885-580.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I'm reading mine by "Homer" :) +1 for reading Ancient Greek!

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 20 02:39:44 2011 No.1475082 File: 17 KB, 220x300, garcia_lorca.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1475080 >implying there was a real Homer

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 20 02:42:44 2011 No.1475089 >>1475082 >implying accepting the traditional name for a crystallized poetic persona isn't legitimate shorthand do you say kickero for cicero as well?

Sellya Thu Jan 20 02:43:44 2011 No.1475091

I didn't imply there was a real Homer. "Homer" was how I put it, we (society) recognize Homer as the author of the poems. We can't be certain of who wrote it or how many did. Like I said, we recognize it being Homer. Hence "Homer", to show I had considered the doubt :)

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 20 02:43:44 2011 No.1475092 >>1475082 Implying "Mark" didn't "write" a "gospel".

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 20 02:44:44 2011 No.1475094 >>1475089 >>1475082 The author function exists independently of any actual person. I mean, who the fuck is Shakespeare exactly?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 20 02:47:42 2011 No.1475101 >>1475094 Oh, hey guys.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 20 02:49:44 2011 No.1475112 File: 34 KB, 330x338, marlowe.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1475094 >I mean, who the fuck is Shakespeare exactly?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 20 02:51:44 2011 No.1475115 File: 1.02 MB, 2400x2993, Francis_Bacon,_Viscount_St_Alban_from_NPG_(2).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1475112 Amateur

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 20 02:57:44 2011 No.1475135 speaking of Shakespeare, what's teh best translations for him?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 20 02:58:44 2011 No.1475138 >>1475135 You don't translate English, what would be the point.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 20 02:59:44 2011 No.1475142 >>1475135 Schlegel and Tieck

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 20 02:59:44 2011 No.1475144 >>1475135 this better be a fucking troll >>1475112 Even if marlowe did secretly write all the works of shakespeare -- would you stop calling them the works of shakespeare?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 20 03:00:44 2011 No.1475145 >>1475135 fuck you

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 20 03:01:44 2011 No.1475152 >>1475144 Whenever I talk to friends I call them "the works of Marlowe"

Anonymous Thu Jan 20 03:04:44 2011 No.1475164

>>1475152
the works of marlowe would include other works not traditionally attributed to shakespeare.

Also: you know Marlowe died too soon to write any of the good shakespeare plays, right?

Honestly, he died to soon to write any really good marlowe plays

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 20 03:06:44 2011 No.1475168 File: 156 KB, 300x410, morgan_freeman_shutup.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1475164 >Honestly, he died to soon to write any really good marlowe plays

>>	deleted Thu Jan 20 03:19:44 2011 No.1475212 >>1474574 Lattimore

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 20 03:23:44 2011 No.1475224 >>1475168 He was too busy prancing around being a gay spy.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 20 03:25:44 2011 No.1475231 >>1475168 You know it to be true. Marlowe could have been as good as Shakespeare if he hadn't died. If Shakespeare had died at the same time as marlowe, marlowe would have been the better playwright.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 20 03:26:44 2011 No.1475237 >>1475224 Elizabethan gays were pretty hardcore actually. Most courtiers could kick your ass in a fistfight and had no problem with killing.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 20 03:28:44 2011 No.1475242 >>1475237 They were all short and scrawny back then. And ill.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 20 04:08:44 2011 No.1475368 Has anyone read Alexander Pope's translation of the Iliad? The whole thing is rhyming couplets. It took him years (almost a decade, I think) to get the final product out.

Anonymous Thu Jan 20 04:15:44 2011 No.1475398

>>1475368

its amazing for a non-modern translation, by which I mean one that doesn't wish to stick so scrupulously close to the original and instead uses it as a launching point for its own poetry. There's a good penguin classics book with various samplings of the major translations of Homer - whole or partial - that have come out over the centuries. Pope also did an Odyssey but apparently farmed out a fair number of books for ghost-writers so its not as good. Off topic, best classic translation of all time is Thomas Hobbes' version of Thucydides. It is, if possible, more difficult than the Greek.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 20 04:20:44 2011 No.1475414 >>1475368 A famed classics scholar reviewed it with: "It's a pretty poem, Mr. Pope, but you must not call it Homer." He was pretty much right. The text is very Pope-like but you can't really see Homer in it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 20 07:01:44 2011 No.1475617 Any recommendations for Ovid translations?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 20 07:31:44 2011 No.1475677 >>1475066 thanks for this

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 20 07:46:44 2011 No.1475703 >>1475066 This isn't called translation. It's called paraphrase.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 20 07:50:44 2011 No.1475715 >>1475703 who gives a shit? it's a viable, non-pedantic, non-pretentious contiribution to the thread, cockjockey.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 20 08:11:44 2011 No.1475757 >>1475617 Mandelbaum was nice. He tries to use iambs and it usually works ok.

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