/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.14742782]

Do any books look at SJWism as essentially social conservatism for leftists, or in other words a highly reactionary streak within leftism?

SJW's basically accept the core premises of social conservatism, particularly the need for an agreed-upon standard for public decorum and what constitutes appropriate / inappropriate behavior when dealing with strangers in the public space. They accept these things as fundamentally necessary and, just like social conservatives, interpret flagrant flouting of said norms as a low-level form of social aggression.

[Anonymous No.14742849]

Conservatism isn't just about strictly following any rules. What's important is WHAT rules you are following. And the rules prescribed by SJWism are pretty much the opposite of conservative

[Anonymous No.14742892]

>>14742849
Actually SJWism marks a pretty decisive break from earlier strands of leftism that saw the strictures of manners, etiquette and decorum (particularly standards pertaining to affect restraint in public) as fundamentally repressive and outmoded. SJW's may want the rules changed to favor various protected classes but they accept the basic legitimacy of, and need for, authoritative rules in the first place

[Anonymous No.14742932]

>>14742782
Yes, it's been a theme in certain circles for a while. Jim Goad wrote a book about it, pic related.
You'll probably get the gist by just reading the blog post
https://thoughtcatalog.com/jim-goad/2014/04/the-new-church-ladies/

I do believe that SJWs and similar movements (including new atheism/reddit scientism) are particularly strong in WASPy societies, filling the vacuum left by the now weak Christian religions, but retaining some of their structures.

[Anonymous No.14742940]

Agreeing on the need for a fabric of mores and norms, a realm of Sittlichkeit, is not conservative as such. It's about the power struggle to posit your ethical standards as 'normal', how these are filled in, what their relation is to the domain of law.

What is perhaps critical is how the realm of ethical norms is being penetrated by and conjoined with law, strengthening the State's presence in people's life (contracts as consent before a hook-up e.g.) which is also entwined with further commodification of all aspects of social life.

See Wendy Brown (1995, 2005, 2008)

[Anonymous No.14742963]

>>14742782
isn't that basically what kill all normies is about

[Anonymous No.14742974]

>>14742932
that guy's just some nazi though

[Anonymous No.14742986]

>>14742974
You're proving his point, though.

[Anonymous No.14743023]

Social Justice is incredibly conservative, it's a militant means of defending the Liberal tradition. In the light of the (real or imagined, it's irrelevant) failures of both, Liberalism creates a means by which it can simultaneously enforce conformity without violating its internal logic by adopting illiberal policies to cope with the reality in which we live.

To put it another way, five year old tranny kids being pimped out is the necessary defense of the eradication of the woman as a class.

[Anonymous No.14743025]

>>14742940
Thanks for the rec

[Anonymous No.14743030]

>>14742782
what is the context behind this picture

[Anonymous No.14743038]

>>14743030
They're protesting

[Anonymous No.14743044]

>>14743030
The negroes were brought into America and eventually freed.

[Anonymous No.14743059]

>>14743030
>niggas be havin a diein
>protestin dat zim...zimmuh...CREEPY ASS CRACKA (RIP muh niqquh)
>fuck wypipo yo
...
>Stacey doesn't givr a shit, walks by with her Chai Mocca Frappa Latte, omg al these deals!
>fat nigga takes a peak at dat azz

[Anonymous No.14743069]

>>14742782
>flagrant flouting

[Anonymous No.14743081]

>>14743030
>police shoot a violent criminal
>black people protest
Rinse and repeat.

[Anonymous No.14743084]

>>14742986
no nazis are just stupid and embarrassing, i don't really care about htem otherwise

[Anonymous No.14743102]

>>14743084
The very fact that you label some dumb Trump supporter a "nazi" (effectively meaning a heretic) shows how deep the religious brainwashing is. Maybe you're not aware of it, but it works either way.

[Anonymous No.14743121]

>>14743102
he's literally a /pol/ daily stormer-tier dumb nazi alt-right edgelord, he's friends with and largely agrees with richard spencer, etc.

[Anonymous No.14743146]

>>14743121
And?

[Anonymous No.14743152]

>>14743146
i'm glad you agree with me

[Anonymous No.14743165]

>>14742782
I don't know about books, but its amusing to read about John C. Calhoun's concept of the Concurrent Majority in light of today's leftism in the US.

And no, it's not reactionary in the usual sense, because SJWism is fundamentally about equality, unless you'd claim that its so reactionary as to want to return to pre-civilizational times for the sake of equality. If anything it's most accurately characterized as the Dissent/Nonconformism of leftism relative to the Marxism, which is the Catholicism/Orthodoxy of the left.

[Anonymous No.14743190]

>>14743121
Richard Spencer is pretty based. Watch his longer interviews and stuff, you'll probably learn a lot.
I don't know much about Jim Goad, he seems more like a boomer alt-lite guy, not much of an intellectual.
Anyway, none of this matters here, so chill.

[Anonymous No.14743219]

>>14743023
>Militant defense of the Liberal tradition
It's not. No one could characterize SJWs as believing in life (lel), liberty (Civil Rights lel) or property (You didn't build that), or free association, or religious freedom. SJWism is the Generalized Civil Rights Movement. It seems to be "individualist" at first glance because of tranners etc. But in reality LGBTQs are Generalized Afro-Americans.

[Anonymous No.14744280]

>>14743219
But SJWism accepts as bedrock a set of presuppositions about a need for social rules and etiquette which has only ever been explicitly articulated by social conservatives (think of conservative critiques of a bilingual US with assertions that we all need to be "on the same page" wrt language and it's hard not to be reminded of pronoun mania)

[Anonymous No.14744359]

>>14742782
I think this is why people tend to get more socially conservative as they age. Excessive liberalism only leads to degenerate social competition. Seems like we have to relearn that every generation unfortunately.

[Anonymous No.14744384]

>>14742940
OP here, appreciate the recs. What you describe is sometimes called "legal overdependence" and generally arises in times where atomization has robbed people of the ability to settle even basic disputes extralegally

Asserting the need for some kind of normative framework of rules / manners / etiquette for interacting IS a fundamentally conservative notion; it hinges on a Hayekian concept of distributed knowledge and requires a certain epistemological modesty to accept them as necessary (i.e. one person alone can rarely articulate why longstanding customs and institutions work, but their survival is prima facie evidence that they have served some human need)

I'm reminded of Tom Wolfe's descriptions of the tortured accents and unbearable intricacies of etiquette among the Victorian landed gentry, or John Murray Cuddihy's stories of diaspora Jews arriving in Europe and perceiving WASP standards of civility, etiquette and the sharp public / private distinction (with its attendant emphasis on affect restraint in public) as impossibly byzantine, repressive strictures that were nonetheless completely necessary to adopt if one had any hopes of breaking into society's upper strata. A key aspect of Victorian manners was its intricacy, to the point where even a well meaning aspirant (or today, a well-meaning "ally") could slip up and unintentionally reveal his place on the social ladder. A cursory glance at the SJW etiquette guide on gender alone proves that they're at least as obtuse as the victorians, and just like them, they are trying to make the etiquette a completely necessary hoop to jump through for anyone seeking a high ranking public position.

>>14743030
BLM die-in at some mall (note the "Can't Breathe / Don't Shoot" shirt on one of the protesters.) This is a good example of the old style of leftism which was all about SUBVERTING the decorum of public spaces with forced spectacles designed to cause discomfort and to force passerby to engage with various issues.

[Anonymous No.14744940]

>>14744384
protip: it's the same people doing SJWism that engaged in the intricate system of Victorian manners that you have described. Nothing has changed. I would debate that it's conservative in a meaningful sense because of the fundamental belief in equality held by SJWs among other reasons. it's more that it's characteristically Anglo-American, it's just that we're used to seeing it from conservatives more overtly - it doesn't seem obvious at first that one has to mind ones manners to be nice to transexuals, for example, this seems transgressive by the norms of almost any civilization, but it isn't (since we live in a collapsing civilization).

[Anonymous No.14744972]

>>14742782
If you aren’t just looking to dunk on libtards, then pic related is a worthwhile examination of thought policing among liberals by a very old, very liberal English professor.

Trying to label academic thought police as conservative seems kinda beside the point.