/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.14727118]

Works of literary merit for this feeI?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PJkNZ30WV0

[Anonymous No.14727396]

>>14727118
You mean the "War has its own laws" part?

"Today we even recognize the secret law of this vocabulary and know that the most terrible war is pursued only in the name of peace, the most terrible oppression only in the name of freedom, the most terrible inhumanity only in the name of humanity.

Finally, we also see through the mood of that generation which saw only spiritual death or a soulless mechanism in the age of technicity. We recognize the pluralism of spiritual life and know that the central domain of spiritual existence cannot be a neutral domain and that it is wrong to solve a political problem with the antithesis of organic and mechanistic, life and death.

A life which has only death as its antithesis is no longer life but powerlessness and helplessness. Whoever knows no other enemy than death and recognizes in his enemy nothing more than an empty mechanism is nearer to death than life.

The comfortable antithesis of the organic and the mechanistic is itself something crudely mechanistic. A grouping which sees on the one side only spirit and life and on the other only death and mechanism signifies nothing more than a renunciation of the struggle and amounts to nothing more than a romantic lament.

For life struggles not with death, spirit not with spiritlessness; spirit struggles with spirit, life with life, and out of the power of an integral understanding of this arises the order of human things.

Ab integro nascitur ordo."

[Anonymous No.14727468]

>>14727118
The old guy has a point. When civilians join the fighting, they forfeit the protections owed to non-combatants and put the safety of their entire community in jeopardy.

[Anonymous No.14728103]

>>14727118

[Anonymous No.14728155]

>>14727468
The Germans saved the Netherlands from communism. The Swiss too. Had the Reich fallen a year sooner they would have enjoyed the same privations of Poland, Czechoslovakia, or East Germany.

[Anonymous No.14728184]

>>14727118
Black Edelweiss.

It's an autobiography by a machine gunner in SS Wiking or Nord, I don't recall which exactly.

Not much to do with "war crimes" but rather the soldier's personal journey. Why he signed up, why his friends signed up, the difference between the Wehrmacht and SS cultures, etc.

It's a very good book, I got mine on Amazon several years ago. The guy is pretty direct with all of his shit, that he and literally every soldier he knew didn't give a fuck about Jews or anything like that: they signed on to stop Bolshevism from infecting western Europe, and the Waffen SS (not the Allegemeine) were the best units to join to fuck up some Soviets.

If this topic interests you, you ought to check out the book.

My old college roommate / my best friend was a history major and we regularly discussed topics like this. How there is very very very little out there documenting the personal stories of German soldiers that isn't padded with "Everything I did was evil, I'm sorry."

Also, check out the miniseries Generation War. It's about 5 German young people and their experiences during the war. Sheds a very human light on what that shit was like.

[Anonymous No.14728208]

>>14728184
>Sheds a very human light on what that shit was like.
I'm so fucking tired of stories like this. There is a reason timeless legends are about extraordinary people, and not "nameless Asian immigrant's pseudo-autobiography about growing up in 20th century working class America". Fucking who cares? Everyone goes through shit like that. Even if they don't, who the fuck cares about some nameless asshole in a sea of assholes except as historical/archaeological material (and then it had better be an actual autobiography or journal)? Of course the molly-coddled bourgeoisie are the ones who push that garbage, because I guess it's nice to play pretend in an ivory tower.

[Anonymous No.14728221]

>>14728208
I mean, I get where you're coming from.

But I see it, in this particular miniseries, as valuable because of the context. There are very few, if any, works of fiction dedicated to sharing what it was like for individual German people during WWII.

There's a Jew, a singer, two brothers, and a nurse. And the series jumps between all of them rather well.

It's not like it's the 190th rendition of "poor immigrant in Brooklyn" or whatever.

So I get your point, but my point is that the specific context of Generation War, the individual German citizen/soldier experience during WWII, is not a saturated setting whatsoever, and therefore has merit.

[Anonymous No.14728230]

>>14728221
I realize that, but nevertheless, it's fucking lame.
>merit
No.

[Anonymous No.14728234]

>>14728230
*At least not any more merit than an immigrant's tale. Sure, it might be a rare sight, but it's still only fiction and speculation on "what it MAY have been like for the every man".

[Anonymous No.14728236]

>>14728208
Every man in Wehrmacht uniform was an Achilles. A Hercules at his trials. A saint. A god.

[Anonymous No.14728237]

>>14727468
Yeah. Them, their families, their children, their neighbors and the people living in the same village.
>Oradour-sur-Glane massacre
>The SS men next proceeded to the church and placed an incendiary device beside it. When it was ignited, women and children tried to escape through the doors and windows, only to be met with machine-gun fire. 247 women and 205 children died in the attack.
>The partizan threat has been eliminated mein Fuhrer! We are good and civilized!

[Anonymous No.14728249]

>>14728237

[Anonymous No.14728253]

>>14727396
Sauce?

I'm gonna take a wild guess and say Evola.

[Anonymous No.14728255]

>>14728249
>Dude the Jews!
At least the Jews didn't burn down white people in their churches.

[Anonymous No.14728256]

>>14728237
The old man wasn't defending the actions of the SS.

[Anonymous No.14728259]

>>14728256
He specifically says that, as well.
Specifically makes the distinction.

[Anonymous No.14728260]

>>14728255
Source is the New York Times dude.

[Anonymous No.14728261]

>>14728236
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I tip my stahlhelm to you, good sir!
I don't hate them or think the holocaust actually happened, but I'm not a dick-sucking wehraboo either. Fucking disgraceful. The equivalent of a Roman lamenting the death of Carthage.
>>14728237
I have trouble believing the Soviets pushed mass-rapes of Germans because the Japanese did not do it to their conquered subjects.
>>14728255
>at least X didn't/did Y
Tu quoque, does not address the topic at hand.
And the Jews most certainly committed dastardly deeds against gentiles.

[Anonymous No.14728271]

>>14728261
>>14728237

Are you telling me..... that wars..... involved war crimes?

Since when?
Didn't they check their morality?
How could this happen?
Oh jeez.
----

Not as bad as when the king of Assyria conquered some other desertfag and had 10,000 men, women, and children beheaded in the street. A lot more personal and time-consuming than MG42ing a couple hundred Europeans.

[Anonymous No.14728275]

>>14728261
Hyperbole, my good lad.


But seriously. Fuck commies, fuck kikes, fuck trannies, fuck jannies, and fuck niggers.

[Anonymous No.14728293]

>>14728256
>The SS killed 16 millions of Soviet citizens and razed 5000 villages in Belarus, most of them during the advances of 1941.
There is no clean Wehrmacht. The old dude says a bunch of shit to defend his past. Even technical shit about tanks.
>These are and were Germans cannons, built by Krupp
>Shows a T-34-76 with 76 mm tank gun M1940 F-34
>The F-34 was designed before the start of World War II by P. Muraviev of Vasiliy Grabin's design bureau at Factory No. 92 in Gorky.

>Later used by the Warsaw Pact
>30s cannons
>????

>No rangefinder no gun sights
>TMFD-7 exits
>oops

Just Nazi propagandists.

[Anonymous No.14728303]

>>14728293
>still quoting SS statistics
You really think there was no difference between a Wehrmacht grunt and the SS?

[Anonymous No.14728308]

>>14728261
>Tu quoque, does not address the topic at hand.
The topic being that an bringing up an attested massacre of civilians is somehow Jewish propaganda? What millions of gentiles have Jewish massacred in Europe in the last millennium?
>>14728271
Yes, war crimes happen. You should talk about it to the guys in OP's video. Clearly they haven't heard of that.
> A lot more personal and time-consuming than MG42ing a couple hundred Europeans.
>Bari Yar victims 33,771 Jews in initial two-day massacre (29 survived) 100,000–150,000 Jews, Soviet prisoners of war, Romanis and Ukrainian Nationalists on later dates.
In just a few hours they outdid your Assyrian king.

[Anonymous No.14728311]

A rough sketch attempting to find threads continuing on from Schmitt and Junger. Likely too many diverse references to myths for our times, and yet this is perhaps the only means of description possible. Elaboration is likely needed for most of it, but I will share anyway.
One cannot discount the brutal aspects of the opposition to war, "Know Thyself" is etched into the characters of even the Last Men. This force can drive people to ever greater forms of destruction. Simplicius cannot exist without the vices of warrior-sinners; the pacifist cannot exist without their virtues.

The contradiction of modern warfare: total mobilisation/equalisation in defeat. Perpetual peace can only be established when Pyrrhic victory is guaranteed for each side. The equal and opposing force of the elemental must be realised in annihilation of materials. The twilight of the gods is achieved through human attrition against its own territory.

Pacification of war measures demands a return to primitive formations: street battles where death is bested through the positioning of entire continents. We are never far from defeat, yet this sanctioning of violence becomes lost to all parties. This is most clear in the constant tests of the superpowers, the battles over scraps of mobilisation - we are quite comfortable on the precipice of nuclear war. Americans and Russians laugh at one another, their APCs only yards apart, while their condottieri redistribute the spoils of the civil war's continuation. In contrast, the homefront appears more violent, much greater despoiling occurs.

The disparity between the "ab integro nascitur ordo" of war and the constancy of its battles suggests both a pacified response to the declarations of war and an increase of force in their decisive laws. We seek to avoid the immense weight, yet this only stretches out the war, makes peace an impossible aim. Here the pacifist can be seen as one who seeks total surrender of all forces of war. How can such an end be achieved without war?

Thus the violence of the pacificists, much greater than that of material warfare. The Lebensraum of Westphalia penetrates the being of the anarchists. One can only imagine the German declaration of war in this sense, a war of the chaos of time against space - the reach of the political into the strategic positioning of the elements.

Paris can never know himself. He is a fool before the age of Christianity. A fool for war, the Greek pacifist. In our time this is repeated as the Last Man who wishes to go to war against the Earth itself. Nietzschean warrior priests who have never read a word of their Holy Book. His war occurs where only he will stand in the end, where he will emerge victorious as the Earth. There can be no pacifism in our age, only foolishness before judgement.

[Anonymous No.14728315]

>>14728311
Conspiracies of war emerge informally - the pacifist justifies his lebensraum negatively, through a posteriori war measures. This is revealed in the time war between Western law and the German instinct of survival. The law of war is that of domain in transition, the subterfuge of mutual slaughter to the sovereignty of a new dominion. The warrior understands this as spiritual beauty, the pacifist as well, but only through becoming.

Clausewitz determines all warfare through defense, yet this formation admits defeat before all battles - there can never be defeat for the immaterial realm. Valkyries will always find their victory. Modern warfare must be seen in this way, as the conscription for battles which are dangerous to even describe.

There is always the possibility of retreat, even for the dead. All cities of a civilisation may be taken, yet its being survives. This is the essence of the myth of Kitezh, and as immaterial warfare descends upon the West the materialisation of the Invisible City threatens. Mobilisation has itself become the means of attrition, and with each invasion a thousand men enter the Invisible City. In this sense, pacifism can be seen as nothing more than total surrender of the homelands, the extension of the War Guilt Clause to the victors.

Such a vision of war ensures its permanence. The conquered must be naturalised into the homeland in order to kettle any efforts of realpolitik. Identification with the enemy becomes its own means of preventive war. But this is a position without end, something beyond pure material mobilisation. And the final law of this is that the invaders will recon the Invisible City, return to war will be inevitable - even if, at first, it appears to be little more than a wandering spiritual survival.

Each side has its vision of the earth. 'Because the world is in mourning, I must return to its perfidious path.' War against war turns the pacifists to misanthropy. Nature subsides. The battles of crows and eagles seem little more than a playful exchange within the violent trade of scraps, until we remember that crows are the rising of the dead. Domain exists in all places, the laws of attack and defense often find themselves. Death necessitate spiritual exploration, surpassing any limits of religious and atheist conflict. Especially the war dead, who continue to advance eternally into the breach of nihilism.

[Anonymous No.14728316]

>>14728308
>What millions of gentiles have Jewish massacred in Europe in the last millennium?
All of them.

[Anonymous No.14728318]

>>14728308

[Anonymous No.14728319]

>>14728315
Every man and woman of the earth will come to face something like the spiritual death of Junger in World War I; the shock of neutral domain confronted by Schmitt after World War II. Men impaled by the earth, Antaeus revealed as a nun.

War has its own spirit, to which all men are soldiers. The German war was already lost in early 1917, the abandonment of Verteidigung in der Tiefe through its formalisation. This was the higher form of total mobilisation which the new generals could not understand - a response to the leveling necessitated by the peasant warriors of the New World. For the West, a Return to Anghiari; for Germany, the Peasant Revolt. The other side of the stab-in-the-back myth appears here for the first time.

All of the Katechon laws between 1525 and 1933 were sacrificed in order to dissipate any distinction between tactics, strategy, and operations in a single moment of 1917. We remain there, an entire century dedicated to nothing more than the clearing of the fields of war. The drawing of immense lines of battle through the earth exiled Germany into the cosmic event. Both sides await the end of mass burials so that peace may end, and another peace find its victor.

We will have a return to the Somme, or something like it. All that was destroyed through immaterial erosion - a greater destruction than all of the exploded ordnance of the World Wars - will find its equal in a final Ride of the Valkyries. And the peasant pacifists will find all new horrors when they realise that the Totenkopf etched into their memories forced themselves into the world as runes heralding a Thousand Year Reich of the Dead. They will never know their own runes and talismen, as they will go to war with them too.

The Kantian limits are breached permanently once the Wild Hunt establishes an alliance with the Condottieri. Modernity approaches its end with each appearance of its movement, counted off like the beads of the Rosary.

https://youtu.be/xyDKezDLGTM

[Anonymous No.14728336]

>>14728303
>There is, but saying that only the SS did bad things while the Wehrmacht was clean is extremely wrong.
>Barbarossa decree
>Every officer in the German occupation in the East of the future will be entitled to perform execution(s) without trial, without any formalities, on any person suspected of having a hostile attitude towards the Germans", (the same applied to prisoners of war);
"If you have not managed to identify and punish the perpetrators of anti-German acts, you are allowed to apply the principle of collective responsibility. 'Collective measures' against residents of the area where the attack occurred can then be applied after approval by the battalion commander or higher level of command";
>German soldiers who commit crimes against humanity, the USSR and prisoners of war are to be exempted from criminal responsibility, even if they commit acts punishable according to German law.
There were countless rapes and massacres committed by the Wehrmacht. In countries that they attacked. There is no moral justification for this. Like the people in OP's vid try to give.

[Anonymous No.14728346]

>>14728319
>https://youtu.be/xyDKezDLGTM
>This is the most intense thing I've ever eaten cereal to
Perhaps this sums everything up. War in our time is the Catalogue of Ships rewritten with all the clowns who have conquered time. Violent death is an amusement to such people.
>>14728315
And a contrast of the Anglo and Russian vision.

[Anonymous No.14728353]

>>14728253
Schmitt.

[Anonymous No.14728386]

>>14728253
Very useful paragraphs before it s well.

The process of continuous neutralization of various do-mains of cultural life has reached its end because technology is at hand. Technology is no longer neutral ground in the sense of theprocess of neutralization; every strong politics will make use of it. For this reason, the present century can only be understood provisionally as the century of technology. How ultimately it should be understood will be revealed only when it is known which type of politics is strong enough to master the new technology and which type of genuine friend-enemy groupings can develop on this new ground.

Great masses of industrialized peoples today still cling to a torpid religion of technicity because they, like all masses, seek radical results and believe subconsciously that the absolute depoliticization sought after four centuries can be found here and that universal peace begins here. Yet technology can do nothing more than intensify peace or war; it is equally available to both. In this respect, nothing changes by speaking in the name of and employing the magic formula of peace. Today we see through the fog of names and words with which the psycho-technical machinery of mass suggestion works.

Today we even recognize the secret law of this vocabulary and know that the most terrible war is pursued only in the name of peace, the most terrible oppression only in the name of freedom, the most terrible inhumanity only in the name of humanity. Finally, we also see through the mood of that generation which saw only spiritual death or a soulless mechanism in the age of technicity. We recognize the pluralism of spiritual life and know that the central domain of spiritual existence cannot be a neutral domain and that it is wrong to solve a political problem with the antithesis of organic and mechanistic, life and death. A life which has only death as its antithesis is no longer life but powerlessness and helplessness. Whoever knows no other enemy than death and recognizes in his enemy nothing more than an empty mechanism is nearer to death than life. The comfortable antithesis of the organic and the mechanistic is itself something crudely mechanistic. A grouping which sees on the one side only spirit and life and on the other only death and mechanism signifies nothing more than a renunciation of the struggle and amounts to nothing more than a romantic lament. For life struggles not with death, spirit not with spiritlessness; spirit struggles with spirit, life with life, and out of the power of an integral understanding of this arises the order of human things. Ab integro nascitur ordo.

[Anonymous No.14728393]

>>14728386
Schmitt who and from what

[Anonymous No.14728420]

>>14728393
Carl Schmitt, perhaps the most important modern thinker in terms of law, and one of the most important in terms of war. He discusses both the partisans and the relation of the doctrine of war to the Nomos of the modern west, its doctrine of war and peace. This is essential to understand the exchange between the German soldiers and the woman.
Concept of the Political? If I remember correctly.

[Anonymous No.14728467]

>>14728319
If I am connecting the dots properly, this seems to be a musical rendition of a battle that involved the Teutons on some frozen lake in northern Poland. I forget the name of the battle or who was fighting, but the gist is that the far-superior Teutonic knights with their cavalry and heavy armor fucking lost because the battle was on ice (as the song title suggests) and they couldn't effectively fight and some drowned or some shit. It was many years ago that I learned of this so most of the details are blurry.

[Anonymous No.14728470]

>>14728230
For better or worse, the commoner is the voice of our time. He is correct here, the elimination of Germany also meant elimination of even the common voice, so it should be seen as an important document.

[Anonymous No.14729374]

>>14728467
Likely an exaggeration to describe other elements.

[Anonymous No.14729566]

>>14728261
>the Japanese did not do it to their conquered subjects.
Yes they did

[Anonymous No.14729623]

>>14728260
Underage

[Anonymous No.14730183]

>>14728420
what must one read before starting Schmitt?

[Anonymous No.14730977]

>>14730183
Plato

[Anonymous No.14731135]

>>14728237
Pretty much every army involved in counter-insurgency warfare has done similar things. The French, whose countrymen died in that massacre, committed equivalent atrocities in Indochina and Algeria only a few years after the end of WWII.

[Anonymous No.14732227]

>>14727468

[Anonymous No.14732462]

>>14729623
Oy vey.

[Anonymous No.14733573]