What’s the point of life?

[Anonymous No.14697956]

I’m trying to justify why committing suicide isn’t the most logical conclusion to sentient life.

[Anonymous No.14697963]

To benefit yourself. Being moral is about benefiting yourself.

[Anonymous No.14697967]

live life = eventually die
commit suicide = die faster
why die faster if it dont matter, just live life
this is assuming there is no inherent or object meaning to life

[Anonymous No.14697969]

>>14697956
What's the point of suicide considering the inevitable nature of death? Suicide brings no change to the state of being, only speeds it up.

[Anonymous No.14697971]

>>14697956
For momentary bliss.

[Anonymous No.14697978]

>>14697956
There is no reason against suicide. An AI gaining self awarness and sentience would logically kill itself. Living is a very irrational thing and people arguing against suicide are coping as much as everyone else.>>14697963

[Anonymous No.14697982]

>>14697978
>blah blah words words
why havent you killed yourself then oh rational one

[Anonymous No.14697984]

>>14697969
What is the point of being? We exist to only not exist.
>>14697963
If life is about benefitting myself, then why be moral? That seems illogical and a handicap to the meaning.
>>14697967
Why even be alive in the first place? Why is there something rather than nothing?

[Anonymous No.14697988]

>>14697984
>Why even be alive in the first place? Why is there something rather than nothing?
Now you're asking the real questions. Don't kill yourself and instead ponder on this for the rest of your life. It is the ultimate question.

[Anonymous No.14697993]

>>14697982
Why are you still alive? You’re going to die anyway.

[Anonymous No.14697995]

>>14697982
based

[Anonymous No.14698001]

>>14697988
I’ve already come to the conclusion we were born to die.

[Anonymous No.14698010]

>>14697993
>no u
answer the question

[Anonymous No.14698011]

>>14697982
not him but i am a pussy

[Anonymous No.14698016]

>>14697984
Being moral is about benefting yourself. Otherwise there is no reason to be moral. (Also, to benefit yourself, you should probaly benefit your reading comprehension)

[Anonymous No.14698020]

>>14697982
Because I am the irrational one

[Anonymous No.14698022]

>>14698020
then why should I trust what you're saying if you're irrational dummy

[Anonymous No.14698025]

>>14697956
>What’s the point of life?
To love God and carry out his commandments: love one another, forgive one another. Be charitable and faithful and hope for his grace so that we might begin in this life a foretaste of the eternal by contemplating him in our interior lives.

That is really and truly the point of life.

[Anonymous No.14698026]

>>14697956
i'm just waiting for a more peacefull and higher success rate method. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYy80trSPSI

[Anonymous No.14698028]

>>14698010
I haven’t killed myself because it’s not my job. My death drive is one at the hands an enemy. A death by nature is the weakest of enemy to by the hands of. Death by myself only second better than this. A true death is one which compels another sentient force into action against your own. A true fight of life and death, the manifestation of the ultimate metaphysical property of God.

[Anonymous No.14698034]

>>14698022
>language game
Please no.
If you were to follow logic, suicide would be your only plausible conclusion. Which begs the question. Why are you still here?

[Anonymous No.14698043]

>>14698034
>If you were to follow logic, suicide would be your only plausible conclusion.
according to who?

[Anonymous No.14698050]

>>14698022
You clearly didn't get what he was saying nor are you able to differ between your intellectualization of the world and the act of actually living. A person can be absolutely aware of logical ontological conclusions but decide against them. That is what embracing life is about in the end. If you try to do it by reason you won't ever get yourself out of a certain nihilism inherent in all existence.

[Anonymous No.14698062]

>>14698043
Sorry anon but are you asking for authority telling you what is true and what not? Isn't the very point you were quoting me for that you think killing myself is only logical?

[Anonymous No.14698066]

>>14697967
Sentient life implies there is pain. What endure pain for longer when there is no meaning to it?

[Anonymous No.14698068]

>>14698062
Learn English bro

[Anonymous No.14698070]

>>14697982
>“Not much music left inside us for life to dance to. Our youth has gone to the ends of the earth to die in the silence of the truth. And where, I ask you, can a man escape to, when he hasn't enough madness left inside him? The truth is an endless death agony. The truth is death. You have to choose: death or lies. I've never been able to kill myself.”
― Louis-Ferdinand Céline, Journey to the End of the Night

[Anonymous No.14698078]

>>14698068
Brilliant comeback. I look forward to your countless books on philosophy once you graduated hs.

[Anonymous No.14698090]

>>14698070
t. retarded frog

[Anonymous No.14698104]

>>14698090
anon believes in lies when it comes to death that's why he haven't killed him.

[Anonymous No.14698148]

based Johan poster

[Anonymous No.14698150]

>>14698070
>that quote
cribbed from Augustine. pathetic frenchman. confirmed I'm never going to read Celine, what a fraud.

[Anonymous No.14698158]

>>14698150
Yet he is infinitely more based than you could ever hope to be.

[Anonymous No.14698168]

>>14697956
Because whether you like it or not, committing suicide goes against what you are, alive.

[Anonymous No.14698192]

>>14697956
I can't tell you why you should or should not quit life. I can explain my position with an analogy. Imagine you're watching a movie. You know eventually it's gonna end but so far it's been interesting enough to keep watching. So I keep watching it.

[Anonymous No.14698216]

>>14698168
But what is truly alive? What is not already dead? The present is fleeting, the past receding, the future never coming.

[Anonymous No.14698220]

If you're gonna die anyway go and die for somebody

[Anonymous No.14698268]

>>14698158
>dude the jews
>based
k stormtard

[Anonymous No.14698310]

>>14698066
pain isn't real

[Anonymous No.14698335]

>>14697956
Why would you do what's logical? We're not machines.

[Anonymous No.14698355]

>>14698335
Prove it

[Anonymous No.14698365]

>it's logical to kill yourself
multiple people have said this now
where does this hot take come from

[Anonymous No.14698397]

>>14697956
it literally does not matter and you'll die anyway

[Anonymous No.14698404]

>>14698365
Sad bastards wanting to believe they are correct in their misery

[Anonymous No.14698407]

>>14697978
The one thing about AI is that that it does not have a particular innate want, so if it did again sentience it wouldn’t do anything outside of its programming as it has no want too. It would not kill itself, but it wouldn’t have concealed about forming different meanings either.

[Anonymous No.14698442]

>>14698407
based ignorant retard pulling conclusions out his ass as if it was a simple problem.

Even asimov struggled with this question--whenever he actually tried to define the implementation of the 3 laws it was always weak shit like an attraction field and mutual inhibition between drives, which in practice would be simple to exploit

[Anonymous No.14698482]

>>14697984
>>14697984
"logical" and "illogical" is just a coping mechanism of your brain trying to understand the complexity "outside yourself". Light is it a wave or a particle? "logically" it can't be both at the same time right? well, same thing with the suicide thing, you just can't bare reality I guess, if you kill yourself or you decide to live the right answer would be: lt doesn't matter, there's no intrinsic value to both things other than our anthropocentric meanings

[Anonymous No.14698600]

>>14698335
if the brain is like a processor, how are we not machines? There is no soul

[Anonymous No.14698644]

>>14698442
>based ignorant retard pulling conclusions out his ass as if it was a simple problem.
Sounds like the guy he's replying to

[Anonymous No.14698694]

>>14697978
self-preservation instinct can only lead to suicide, if you are in risk of losing freedom to act or you cant avoid unecessary suffering. AI maybe could learn and understand "intelectual suffering" (existential), but not physical pain like us: dead isnt useful for ai, unlesz is biological dead (integrating living organisms to itself, to increase computational power and capacity for generating random numbers).

AI wouldnt kill itself: would do what most life forms do (trying to evolve and consume or integrate variables to grow and survive). to try to understand death, ai could create nsimulatiobs to "die" multiple times, but just to survive longer. Some living organisms are semi-eternal.

suicide is important to believe in freedom, bc it allows to preserve the illusion of free will. non-human animals will also commit suicide under extreme stress. therefore, is possible to avoid suicide finding pleasure in something, or becoming curious about something different to death. A middle point is finding pleasure in "getting close to the edge": drugs, extreme sports, and risky occupations.

[Anonymous No.14698860]

>>14698600
then there is no free will. so any discussion on the topic of changing one's opinion, or convincing/being convinced of something is useless and absurd.

[Anonymous No.14698902]

this thread is beyond retarded

[Anonymous No.14698974]

>>14697956
>>14697967
This wraps up the discussion nicely. You can botch a suicide and fuck yourself even harder than life ever could. You finna bouta die anyway so live out of curiosity and shut the fuck up you anime posting fag piece of shit. Every teenager in existence has already had these thoughts and ideas and it's worn out and tired.

[Anonymous No.14698982]

>>14698860
What is the connection between free will and being convinced or changing an opinion? You don't need free will to be convinced by someone explaining something to you

[Anonymous No.14699023]

>>14698016 absolutely wrecked you >>14697984

[Anonymous No.14699056]

>>14698982
if nature is just a big processor following unbreakable, mathematical rules, formulae, then there is no such thing as sovereignty of the individual or conscience. more specifically, every act of trying to convince somebody of something or arguing about philosophical matters is simply an automated process. nobody 'makes' a choice, nobody chooses between A and B, everyone is doing and thinking whatever the biological and chemical process dictates. hence there is no such thing as free will, everything can be deconstructed and explained materially speaking

[Anonymous No.14699059]

>>14697956
>I’m trying to justify why committing suicide isn’t the most logical conclusion to sentient life.
The answer is obvious, you fucking retard.

If you don't want to kill yourself, don't fucking do it.

That's a perfectly logical answer that fully resolves the issue. Sure, it assumes that you should be seeking your pleasure, but that's a pretty noncontroversial assumption. Either you have duties and obligations that you can only accomplish by being alive, OR there are no duties and obligations and, therefore, no reason why seeking your own pleasure would be illogical to do.

>"but what if I want to kill myself"
Then do it.

This whole debate is so fucking retarded. There doesn't need to be some grand justification for staying alive. It's fun being alive. I plan to keep the party going as long as I can. That's all there is to it.

[Anonymous No.14699063]

>>14699059
>formatting
not killing myself today. nice try reddit

[Anonymous No.14699066]

>>14699056
by nature I mean the whole universe

[Anonymous No.14699087]

>>14698016
And if the benefit to myself is to remove suffering and misery upon myself, then logically the moral thing to do would be to exit gracefully, wouldn’t it?

[Anonymous No.14699100]

>>14699056
I think we are arguing over semantics here. You still make a choice between options, it was just determined by smaller processes outside your awareness. I guess you could term it as you watching the body you inhabit making a choice, if by 'you' we mean purely the consciousness.

[Anonymous No.14699102]

>>14698600
The brain isn't like a processor. Processors are like the brain. And either way it's a simile. Why would anyone aspire to be a perfectly logical being?

[Anonymous No.14699107]

>>14697963
This

>>14699087
Death is antithetical to the self

[Anonymous No.14699111]

>>14697956
You are given two divine gifts:
Life and will.
Do as you please.

[Anonymous No.14699114]

>>14699107
What self?

[Anonymous No.14699129]

>>14699100
> if by 'you' we mean purely the consciousness.
what I said previously was assuming that there is no such thing as a metaphysical, non-material 'consciousness', nothing 'inhabits' the body.
my definition of (metaphysical) choice is that, given all the computation and all the mathematical intelligence in the world, you couldn't predict what person A would do, given the B set of circumstances (atoms, particles, biology, chemistry, whatever you want).
otherwise everything is an automata.
were your previous posts were you implying that there exists such a thing as a soul inhabiting the body, or not?

[Anonymous No.14699149]

>>14699114
>remove suffering and misery upon myself
That self.

If you're dead, there is no "myself."

Killing yourself can only ever sum to zero. It neither benefits you nor harms you, because after you do it there is no you.

That's why it's only worth bothering to contemplate killing yourself if your life is in the negatives.

[Anonymous No.14699202]

>>14697956
>I’m trying to justify why committing suicide isn’t the most logical conclusion to sentient life.
you can't

[Anonymous No.14699220]

>>14699129
I've only posted twice. Regardless of what you want to call it, there is something that is aware right? That thing can be said to be 'watching' the choices, since it ultimately isn't responsible for them.

[Anonymous No.14699227]

>>14699149
The self is a temporary illusion on a passing body. There is no eternal self, thereby there is no self. A return to death is the real return to self. Sleep might be an example of this, for as a thing, humans may never remain full “awake”. We are held to our natural state of being: non being.

[Anonymous No.14699234]

>>14699220
>there is something that is aware right?
that's not what deterministic atheists/scientists believe
you avoid stating your position. I'm saying that you can't have an automaton universe and free will of the very people part of the automaton at the same time.

[Anonymous No.14699239]

>>14699227
Pffft, okay, fag.

[Anonymous No.14699242]

>>14699227
>Sleep might be an example of this
While you're awake your brain produces toxic waste chemicals. When you sleep those chemicals are flushed out. Also there's some evidence that your brain uses sleep to write from your short term memory to your long term memory, like RAM and a hard drive, but that's more speculative. There's nothing mystical about it.

Pseudoscience won't help you here.

[Anonymous No.14699245]

>>14699239
You have no argument and thereby concede to my superior metaphysical appropriation of being.

[Anonymous No.14699249]

>>14698158
He was apathetic, which is the antithesis of based.

[Anonymous No.14699252]

>>14699242
>but that's more speculative
almost everything scientists claim to understand about sleep is speculative
neuroscience is borderline pseudoscience with the replication rate that garbage field produces

[Anonymous No.14699254]

>>14699242
If our brain is unable to maintain are waking form without receding to a state of sleep, then how are we to determine to being is a natural state and not one that is inherently satanic in nature. We live in hell and you have yet to realize this.

[Anonymous No.14699258]

>>14699234
I agree with that. I dont have a position about the ontological status of consciousness because I see literally no way to verify any of the possibilities. My first post was just that your opinion about stuff can change with you having free will.

[Anonymous No.14699260]

>>14698078
That's ironic, because all of your posts read like some faggot who's taking highschool classes on philosophy.

[Anonymous No.14699269]

>>14699258
well there you go.
check this thread from yesterday if you have the time: >>14691895

[Anonymous No.14699276]

>>14699245
Whatever, dork.

[Anonymous No.14699284]

>>14699276

[Anonymous No.14699291]

>>14699252
>almost everything scientists claim to understand about sleep is speculative
Yes and no. The toxin flush stuff is pretty well established.

>neuroscience is borderline pseudoscience
Then why are patient outcomes for people with brain problems improving over time?

Science is hard and people don't always get it right, but don't throw the babby out with the bathwater.

>>14699254
Why would anyone care about determining that in the first place?

[Anonymous No.14699303]

>>14697956
literally dealing with this same thing. bought a 9mm, went to a secluded park, and pussied out because I didn’t want to die in hell for eternity. Went home and told my folks about everything, and I’m picking up the pieces of my life. headed to the doc to partake in the big pharma jew.

stay strong, brother.

[Anonymous No.14699320]

>>14697956
>>14697978
>>14697993
>>14698070
>>14698407
>>14698482
>>14698694
>>14697984
>>14699100
>>14699220
>>14699227
>>14699254

[Anonymous No.14699341]

>>14699291
>Why would anyone care about determining that in the first place?
>”Why would anyone want to know we live in hell?”

[Anonymous No.14699351]

>>14697956
100% of philosophers that bicker over the meaning of life and try to come to some "rational conclusion" about it have themselves lived unfulfilling and vapid lives, and their writings are the ramblings of people trying to cope with having done nothing of true merit or worth in their entire life and have become unhappy with themselves.

[Anonymous No.14699353]

>>14699341
Correct.

Explain to me the impact of the knowledge.

[Anonymous No.14699360]

>>14699341
Don't project your self-made isolationist hell onto society anon. Not everyone is a permavirgin NEET loser like you.

[Anonymous No.14699373]

>>14699351
Correct.

You don't see people who actually do shit wondering about the meaning of life. They can just point to all the shit they did. "The meaning of my life was the 9,001 children that I personally saved from a life of blindness by performing eye surgery on them in Africa."

I don't go in for anti-intellectualism often, but I'd Khmer Rouge philosophers in a heartbeat if I could.

[Anonymous No.14699379]

>>14699353
I already have, yet you fail to see the deeper meaning within. You fear death when you should instead embrace it.
>in b4 why don’t you kill yourself
Then who would spread the gospel of truth? You avoid danger in life to make it safely to death. This is nonsense. Your philopsychia deceives you!

[Anonymous No.14699393]

>>14699379
>I already have, yet you fail to see the deeper meaning within
Then it sounds like you did a poor job, because I'm literate, fairly intelligent, and open to hearing your ideas.

It sounds to me like the thrust of your argument is that if people knew what life really is they would kill themselves and that's a good thing.

[Anonymous No.14699419]

>>14699393
You fail yet to understand, but you will in time. The choice of death is not at your hands to make, but by the of the hands of an enemy.

Will you put down your loli doujins and fight? Or will you perish like a dog?

[Anonymous No.14699427]

>>14699393
He's probably a schizo who's become trapped in a hell of his own making and has thus refused to take responsibility for his actions (or, IN-ACTION) and projects the problem onto life itself. It's quite a common thing about egocentrists and narcissists, who consider themselves too great to have succumb to themselves and resulted in utter failure. Their only viable conclusion is to turn to their philosophical quibblings, of which they have much time to ruminate on and go through mental gymnastics about to come to the conclusion that "it can't be MY fault, because life is meaningless! therefor everyone should die". Whenever you see someone post this online, always assume that it's a coping mechanism for their failure, because it is. The sooner they realize that they have failed, the sooner they will realize failure is okay, overcome their feelings of inadequacies, and begin making things better for themselves.

[Anonymous No.14699435]

>>14699419
>>14699379
stop posting your shitty frogs
https://youtu.be/_-YWL31pbmc?t=158

[Anonymous No.14699456]

>>14699419
You're wasting my time.

Don't expect further reply.

>>14699427
That's definitely plausible, but I think it's more likely he's just a shitposting /pol/yp affecting an aspect of metaphysical angst for trolling purposes.

I've got no doubt he's got brain problems but I don't think much of what he's posted in this thread is actually sincere. It's a maximalist LARP of a much smaller or less intense underlying belief - if I had to guess, probably the standard issue /pol/ schlock about the decline of the West.

[Anonymous No.14699459]

>>14699379
>Then who would spread the gospel of truth? You avoid danger in life to make it safely to death. This is nonsense. Your philopsychia deceives you!

So you equate it to a religion now? Interdasting. Perhaps you have no actual rational logic behind it thus you market it as a "gospel" to cover any of the obvious gaps in your "logic"?

[Anonymous No.14699465]

>>14697956
The only reason to kill yourself is if you’re a massive pussy

[Anonymous No.14699469]

>>14699427
>He's probably a schizo
A schizophrenic is one who swims in the depth of the unconscious and pulls out of it mythology.

You have been deceived by the authority which tells you a lust for life is a pleasure beyond all! Death awaits you at either end. Will you choose suicide by nature? Or will you live a life of greatness?

[Anonymous No.14700609]

>>14699149
It harms you because, after death, there is no you.
You are your existence. Death takes away your existence. Takes away you.
So death does the opposite of benefit you. It erases you.

>>14699227
These are a lot of meaningless sentences. Sleep isn't a break from existence. You still exist while sleeping, and even retain some consciousness. Have you ever had a movie play while you sleep and remembered hearing it?

Meanwhile death seems to be an irreparable break from existing

[Anonymous No.14700835]

>>14700609
When we are awake we realize the absurdity of our dreams. Yet when we sleep we fail to realize an absurdity of being awake.

[Anonymous No.14700949]

>>14697978
True. Check out sci fi movie " Zoe"

[Anonymous No.14701019]

>>14699063
based

[Anonymous No.14701041]

>>14699419
cringe

[Anonymous No.14701104]

>>14697956
You must realize that the real self is just the empty form of Being that is everywhere, and the self as you see it is only illusory. Being will remain after death, and if you understand what this means you should realize that suicide only solves the problem from the perspective of that illusory self, not the real problem.

Therefore, the point of life is to contribute to the continuation and expansion of the human race, at least until they can create an AI or biological successor that will spread across the universe, wastefully using energy and hastening on the heat death so that less sentient life must be born into this suffering and Being's true death arrives.

Not until God's corpse has rotted away into silence will we be free.

[Anonymous No.14701279]

I'm not a very smart person at all, in fact I'd say I'm peak midwit, but I've always seen life as being an attempt to form chaos into order, such that more chaos will naturally flow from that.
Like, you've got the Big Bang right? Okay, so let's assume that everything naturally settles after it. Well, then all these smaller systems are created and they have to settle, and from this you get galaxies and stars and planets and all the processes on it. Shit goes crazy and it subsists on going crazy until it's no longer fucking having a spasm, and then once it finally relaxes some new shit pops up.
Now let's Idunno assume we're talking about God here. Every time there was an era of peace in humanity it's at least sorta kinda true that there was a schism in the Church or what-have-you. Crusades, Enlightenment, even 9/11 was a holy war in a sense. But from that there comes an era of peace. It's not really a cycle per se, because that would imply there was a permanence to the order coming from this chaos, that humans had conquered conflict in the same manner as they were conquering the seas. But that's empirically false.
S'pose I look to myself now. I'm a normal guy with some very esoteric interests. I fluctuate between mild psychosis and complete bliss. I'm worried about having to write two essays by Wednesday but I'm currently relaxed because I'm purposefully creating a relaxed situation before and after these papers are due. I know there will be chaos; things will come up that I can't account for. Yet I'm content because that gives me spark to live.
Suicide isn't irrational to me, but I see it as an incorrect and impulsive way to 'correct' the chaos around us. In killing yourself, you are killing any and all future instances of relaxation in your chaotic life. You are depriving yourself of being a part of the timeline, whether it be natural, spiritual or completely contrived.
There's probably some branch of philosophy that deals with what I've said, but hopefully you anons get the gist. This is what I live for. Order from chaos, begetting even more chaos, and who knows when one shall follow the other.

[Anonymous No.14701329]

>>14701104
Like suffering is that bad. It's actually a teacher.

[Anonymous No.14701490]

>>14701104
>heat death
notto this shitto again

[Anonymous No.14701527]

The purpose of life is to become as Christ.
No, not being a good guy and doing what he would do in similar circumstances, but rather a complete oneness with the Divine so that you too can walk on water or turn water to wine.