/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.14653768]

>c-cultural Marxism is a right wing conspiracy th-

[Anonymous No.14653793]

>>14653768
It is thought. The 1960s post "left" is a CIA cold war invention

[Anonymous No.14653819]

>>14653793
nah, what you don't understand is that marxism was always a ruse. when the marxists say "workers" it is code word for party members. the "workers" took over back in the 1930s under FDR administration. US has a party based marxist ruling class rather than a merit based system. this makes it a far left regime

[Anonymous No.14653852]

The fact that economic Marxism is dead in a ditch, and that liberalism took some of the softer "cultural" aspects that, if not contained in the nucleus of Marxism, were certainly attached to the broader movement and ran with them for their own reasons should be fairly uncontroversial. The idea that at some undefined point in the future all these big exploitative institutions are going to remove their masks, roll out the red flags and cackle "Just as planned" like an anime villain because they have rainbow flag pins on their lapels seems unlikely however.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.14653927]

>Death

[Anonymous No.14654043]

>>14653852
>should be uncontroversial
>should be

The point is lefties pretend that there is NO serious scholarly work exploring the connections between Marxist theory and modern liberalism, or that if you say "cultural Marxism" you literally believe Marx was for gay and tranny rights and multiculturalism

[cunt No.14654071]

>>14653768
Did someone say cultural Marxism?

[Anonymous No.14654079]

>>14653819
lol

[Anonymous No.14654080]

They call it "marxism" because 1. Marxism is spooky 2. It involves an oppressed group trying to get less oppressed 3. Maybe it got louder around the same time as economic marxism idk

[Anonymous No.14654095]

>>14653768
Epub of this book plox?

[cunt No.14654163]

>>14653819
>that Marxism was always a ruse
no
>when the Marxists say "workers" it is code word for party members.
stop
>took over back in the 1930's under FDR administration
That's Social Democracy (Left Capitalist) not Marxism or even Socialism
>US has a party based Marxist ruling class rather than a merit based system. this makes it a far left regime
Crazy or retarded

What you've said here is "I disagree with Marxism but have no idea what it is or read anything about it other than capitalist propaganda."
Do you think Socialism is when the government does stuff?
Do you know the difference between Socialism, Communism, and Marxism
Whats Marx's most important text? I'll give you a hint, its not the Communist memeifesto .

[Anonymous No.14654190]

>>14654163
The guy youre replying to is saying that Marxists are liars and dont have any intention of empowering the workers, they just say they will and then install themselves as party dictators.

[Anonymous No.14654256]

>>14653768
What you call "cultural Marxism" is more accurately called "anti-Marxism". Marcuse was on the OSS/CIA payroll for decades. He explicitly rejected Marx's materialism and theory of class struggle, replacing it with a degenerate and idealistic notion of cultural 'liberation'. A very convenient replacement from the perspective of the ruling class.

[Anonymous No.14654307]

>>14654256
This seems like a cop-out considering all of the people who were devoted materialists in the 20th century are perfectly smitten with idpol neo-marxists in the 21st century.

[Anonymous No.14654312]

>>14654043
It's like saying Satanism is just a form of Lutheranism that merely swaps out God for the Devil. It's total gibberish. Among all the forms of socialism in existence, the defining characteristic of Marxism is its uncompromising materialism, and in particular its total rejection of idealism aimed at appeasing various intra-bourgeois social resentments.

[Anonymous No.14654318]

>>14654307
Is this a joke?

[Anonymous No.14654336]

>>14654318
If you don't have a response you can just not reply, anon

[Anonymous No.14654342]

>>14653793
>It is thought. The 1960s post "left" is a CIA cold war invention
uh yeah you're gonna need to prove that

[Anonymous No.14654347]

>>14654336
You're the one who posted a straight-up absurd statement.

[Anonymous No.14654349]

>>14653793
>made in America
must be why the post-left is so based

[Anonymous No.14654353]

>>14654307
>idpol
all politics are identity politics you dumb faggot twink

[Anonymous No.14654373]

>>14654342
It's public knowledge. The OSS was paying Marcuse from 1943 on. It funded the Frankfurt School. It financed abstract expressionism in the visual arts. This has all be declassified in recent years.

[Anonymous No.14654379]

>>14654353
Fuck off, tranny. The adults are talking.

[Anonymous No.14654395]

>>14654373
>>>14654342 (You)
nuh uh

[Anonymous No.14654529]

>>14654347
This is your second non-response, care to make a third?

[Anonymous No.14654648]

>>14654163
>what's Marx's most important text

I'm not the anon you were asking but the answer isn't necessarily Capital; the earlier "humanitarian" writings of Marx could be said to be more influential these days

[Anonymous No.14654976]

>>14654043
>The point is lefties pretend that there is NO serious scholarly work exploring the connections between Marxist theory and modern liberalism,

This isn't really true, you should look in to actual Marxist's critiques of 'radlibs' who are more or less exactly the same people that conservatives would label as cultural Marxists. They really really hate them. Radlibs reject the term cultural marxism because they do not see themselves as such, and Marxists reject the label for reasons that should be obvious. Of course you get Radlibs who call themselves Marxists because the label is so abused in the anglosphere that many people legitimately don't know what it refers to anymore, and this pisses off the orthodox marxists even more because how dare a liberal call themselves a marxist. Conservatives viewing from a difference often take it all at face value and assume both groups are Marxists and the waters just get muddier and muddier. It is pretty funny.

Ultimately I think "cultural marxism" has become a useless term because even if it does relate to some real historical trend it is never going to gain traction outside of the group that coined it. It serves more as a flag for group identity. You use the term and what you are really convey in is that you belong to group X and when people from groups Y & Z see this flag they know that you can be safely ignored because you are a rival and even if you do hold some small portion of the truth your enemies are not will not risk empowering your by acknowledging this.

One of the dumbest things about conservatives, and the conservative mindset, is how, despite being proved wrong over and over again, they continue to expect others to play fair and abide by the rules of the book even when everyone else is not. They will die on the mole hill that they mistake as a mountain to defend the legitimacy of their terminology with "facts and logic" rather than taking a left-hand approach to power.

[Anonymous No.14655017]

>>14654976
Very accurate post. Life would certainly be simpler if everyone used the same terms for the same things (e.g., 'radlib' works). Instead of spending 90% of the time arguing about labels, we could go straight to issues of substance.

[Anonymous No.14655041]

>>14654976
>they continue to expect others to play fair and abide by the rules of the book even when everyone else is not.
I was with you till then. That’s pretty much any in-group I’m reaction to another.

[Anonymous No.14655082]

>>14655041
>That’s pretty much any in-group I’m reaction to another.

Of course every in-group definitely has a moral framework that they police internally and that ideally they would like to see imposed on the world, the various out-groups, etc. What I am referring to is specifically a kind of old fashioned sense of fair play or good faith inter-group dialogue.You could say that it is the belief that what you described above can be transcended on anything more than an person to person basis, that once the referee calls time the game ends and you can all go out for milkshakes together and be friends simply because you all shook hands, and a good firm handshake means you are dealing good and trustworthy man, right?

And this isn't to say that conservatives, the right, etc are not above slander, propaganda and all that. But the only place I see this particular kind of wide eyed political naivety is among a intersection of mainstream conservatism, free speech advocates, or grey-tribe and IDE kind of people. Other groups have their own pathologies.

[Anonymous No.14655089]

>>14654976
unfortunately you follow your careful marxism taxonomy with a clumsy treatment of 'conservatism'

[Anonymous No.14655109]

>>14655082
Ah, ok, I get what you are putting down. I more or less agree and have noticed this nuance of discourse. The phrase “wide eyed naivety” is a good way to put it, I’ve had a hard time putting it into words, and it’s not exactly one to one. Even when a right wing person says something that is rather naive, it somehow tends to seem a lot more “pure” in intentionality, while a lot of more common liberal spokesmen seem somewhat slimy, even if well informed. I had a teacher express the same phenomenon to me once.

[Anonymous No.14655209]

>>14653768
>eory

[Anonymous No.14655246]

>>14655089
It is the standard conservatives are a movement of delayed capitulation position popular among reactionary types. However I am trying to address a tendency that is really located at the intersection of a couple of different groups but has no name of its own because it exists as at a crossroads not in an entity, so I admit I struggle for a succinct terminology, and although I don't mean to imply that this is something latent in Burke, or whoever else, but rather that the most significant group that this tendency has been present in has been anglosphere party conservatives, at least until the IDW/Free Speech/ Quillette types.

If you have a clearer perspective I would appreciate it.

[Anonymous No.14655469]

>>14654190
correct. marxism is just the wrapping for low IQ plebs to get duped into a managerial deep state

[Anonymous No.14655516]

>>14654373
I think the government at first was more interested in defeating fascism intellectually while it was doing the same militarily. I’m sure it mutated into something else during the Cold War.

[Anonymous No.14655668]

>>14654163
I detect a little communism
I can see it in the things you do
Communism, socialism, call it what you like
There's very little difference in the two
Now ain't I right

[Anonymous No.14655821]

>>14655516
The people who made these decisions couldn't even define fascism if pressed. If you read modern day scholarship on fascism you still can't find a reasonable definition except from one or two fringe scholars. See for example Gregor's "The Search for Neofascism." The idea that they were fighting something that they couldn't even define is an absurdity and revisionist to cover up much more sinister machinations.

[Anonymous No.14656658]

>>14654976
Well conservatives have principles and play by the book even if it kills them. They’re the most Kantian bunch out there.

[Anonymous No.14657927]

>>14653768
From the synopsis it sounds like it's trying to excuse the European lefts embrace of IDpol and migrants solely as result of American influence.


It would seem more likely to me that this is the result of Marxism ignoring human tribalism as if they did not exist within the human psyche. Allowing them to fester into the exploitable IDpol of today.

[Anonymous No.14658932]

>>14654307
The more you read Marx, the further you get from progressivism. Progressivism is the ideology of the Capital. Replacing Class struggle with progressivism during the 60s was and still is a psy-op of the hyperclass. The Capital is absolutely not afraid of LGBT culture. It's only afraid of one thing: massive class struggle and strikes which stops production. Everything that divert peoples attention from this is cherished by the Capital.

[Anonymous No.14659493]

>>14658932
Now point to me a single major leftist party or leader in the West who doesn't care excessively about racism, homophobia, islamophobia, transphobia, etc

[Anonymous No.14659730]

>>14659493
The West is capitalist.

[Anonymous No.14659750]

>>14654395

[cunt No.14659758]

>>14655668
>Communism, socialism, call it what you like
>There's very little difference in the two

[Anonymous No.14659839]

>>14659730
So supporters of communism cannot exist in a capitalist society?

[Anonymous No.14659876]

>>14654342
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/modern-art-was-cia-weapon-1578808.html

[Anonymous No.14660113]

"Cultural Marxism" is literally just the Protestantism of Marxism. It's strongest in the historically Protestant countries. How does no one see this after 60 years?

[Anonymous No.14660199]

>>14660113
It's strongest in the historically whitest countries. Who top the historical racial hierarchy. And still present in non protestant countries as well

[Anonymous No.14660230]

>>14659839
You have to deal with the reality of a culture destroyed by capitalism.

[Anonymous No.14660235]

>>14660199
What I mean here is that historically, the Catholic countries had stronger Communist Parties (an uncomfortable fact is that the Party functioned awfully similarly to how the Church used to) - especially France, Italy, Portugal, and Latin America, relative to the Anglosphere. Though many in the Anglosphere intelligentsia proclaimed themselves Communists or fellow-travelers, they hardly knew anything about what Communism actually entailed, essentially, the thinking was "Communism is when you're nice to the poor and brown, the nicer you are, the more Communist it is", especially in the US.

[Anonymous No.14660242]

>>14660113
>>14660199
It's just capitalism.

[Anonymous No.14660258]

>>14660242
>It's just heresy.
Nothing new under the sun.

[Anonymous No.14660267]

>>14660230
An excuse for the fact that 21st century Marxists are all idpol lumpenprole shills for capital implicitly acknowledges that 21st century Marxists are all idpol lumpenprole shills for capital.

[Anonymous No.14660285]

>>14660267
Not a 'fact'. Marxists literally hold views opposite to IdPol radlibs. Read a book.

[Anonymous No.14660287]

>>14660285
>Catholics literally hold views opposite to Protestants. Read Aquinas.
t. You in the 1500s

[Anonymous No.14660299]

>>14653768
It is, what you call "cultural Marxism" has an actual name for it, it's called progressivism. Here, now you don't need to use right wing buzzwords when you want to talk about it.

[Anonymous No.14660305]

>>14660235
>What I mean here is that historically, the Catholic countries had stronger Communist Parties
fair enough

>Communism is when you're nice to the poor and brown, the nicer you are, the more Communist it is
yeah they are replacing economic or racial superiority with moral superiority. Which is why most of them leftists in the first place.

>>14660242
>It's just capitalism.
I see this a lot here. But never how Marxism would actually stop this. Instead it is always a critique on how capitalism facilitates it.

[Anonymous No.14660322]

>>14660305
It wouldn't, most Marxists that actually exist support what we call "Cultural Marxism", the opponents of it are basically the Marxist equivalent of Sedevacantists. It's actually a good parallel - with no Party in Moscow there's no Communism.

[Anonymous No.14660376]

>>14660305
The solution is ownership of the means of production by the people who built and run it.

[Anonymous No.14660382]

>>14660322
In your dreams, tranny.

[Anonymous No.14660524]

>>14660376
>The solution is ownership of the means of production by the people who built and run it.
how would that either stop ID politics or prevent immigration

[Anonymous No.14660737]

>>14660376
>How to start a genocidal civil war in five easy steps
I mean can you imagine taking a country as racially heterogeneous and divided as the United States, and putting all property under government control? This would be dicey enough in a country like Iceland or Norway. In a country like the States it would immediately devolve into a struggle for control over resources.

[Anonymous No.14661215]

>>14653819
literalm schizo

[Anonymous No.14661236]

>>14660737
Can you read? The people who built and run the means of production are workers, not government bureaucrats.

[Anonymous No.14662010]

>>14661236
>the people who built capital firms are the same people who run them at the lowest level
>the people who built, financed, oversaw and incurred all risks in building firms don't rightfully own them, their employees do