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/lit/ - Literature

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14620833 No.14620833 [Reply] [Original]

I'm halfway through Anti-Oedipus: Capitalism and Schizophrenia and I extremely confused. This has been harder for me to grasp than Hegel.
Anyone have any tips or luck with this? Am I just a brainlet?

>> No.14620839

Gotta read plato, socrates, spinoza, kant, hegel, marx, stirner, nietzsche, bergson, freud and lacan first to know what the fuck he's babbling on about

>> No.14620841
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14620841

>>14620833
If you can't understand it there's no hope for you

>> No.14620844

>>14620839
Aristotle not socrates Xd

>> No.14620851
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14620851

I'm a Deleuzefag, do you have any specific questions? AO is easier than D&R, both are easier than PoS imo but that's only because PoS is a literal bottomless pit

>> No.14620879

>>14620839
>stirner
why?

>> No.14620904

>>14620839
This is simply not true. This is a very key stage 4 approach. I would argue to try and find the ‘root books’ (as you are clearly saying is necessary for understanding) as imaginary markers of elucidation, would be to completely miss the point of Deleuze.

>> No.14620910
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14620910

>> No.14620936

>>14620851
sorry for being a brainlet as i'm still fairly new to deleuze (not op) but what is PoS?

>> No.14620958

>>14620841
Don't be mean.
>>14620839
I haven't touched on spinoza, bergson, freud, and lacan but have a pretty good grasp on the others. Fuck me man. I really am a brainlet.
>>14620851
I just get so lost with the production shit. Seriously. The wording gives me a headache and I have to stop after every couple of sentences to try and grasp at what he is really trying to say. Is there any way to make this process easier? I find his work very fascinating but I feel like shit if I only get 30% of what he means.

>> No.14620960

>>14620936
Phenomenology of Spirit

>> No.14621024
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14621024

Deleuze is a materialist, this is basically his attempt to materialize psychoanalysis. He isn't interested in lack like Freud or Lacan, he is interested in the positive remainder, production. It's all there in the first few lines:
>Hence we are all handymen: each with his little machines. For every organ-machine, an energy-machine: all the time, flows and interruptions. Judge Schreber* has sunbeams in his ass. A solar anus. And rest assured that it works: Judge Schreber feels something, produces something, and is capable of explaining the process theoretically. Something is produced: the effects of a machine, not mere metaphors.
The Judge's schizophrenia isn't a mere matter of symbolism, it was a productive machine which Schreber's desire flowed through. It produced his book, A Memoir of My Nervous Illness, which was one of Freud's major influences, in turn producing psychoanalysis itself. Schizophrenitization isn't a matter of lack, it is the production of the new, the overcoming of limits, the deterritorialization of a previously territorialized socius, an egg, ect. The production he is concerned with is the material production of the new, new which overcomes the old entirely over a plane of total potential, a plane of pre-territorialized immanence (a body without organs).

>> No.14621207

>>14620910
>in principle at least
I wonder what kind of 15 year olds he had in mind.
But maybe the 80s where just a different time?

>> No.14621209

>>14620851
What order does one read Deleuze in?

>> No.14621213

>>14620833

I wish to take your post at face value and congratulate you if your account is true. Most of us here haven't actually read any of it. That said there's a lot of context, as you're learning (by not knowing it).

>> No.14621219

>>14620879
Because Stirner is just a Left Wing version of Nietzsche

>> No.14621225

>>14621207
The average Youth was a lot smarter back then thats for sure. They have been getting dumbed down

>> No.14621231

>>14620958
>haven't touched on spinoza, bergson, freud, and lacan

it’s tough, don’t be hard on yourself. they really are attempting to completely change the way we think, rather than just give an opinion piece on ‘capitalism’

through Nietzsche, they no longer allow any form of idealism to creep into their writing, no judgement of good and bad, no trascendental thought.

through spinoza they attempt to talk about things as interconnceted, and therefore determined, we are not entirely autonomous individuals, and that requires us to think of flows of knowledge through us, rather than some evil man plotting to exploit us

this strictness of speaking about things according to new rules without falling into old fallacies is why its so hard to grasp. everything is here and now, naturalistic bodily urges attempting to experiment with the world, not coming up with psychoanalytic excuses for (and in turn demonising) failures and mistakes, certain ideas of the productivity and worth of individuals, etcetctcetcetcetc

>> No.14621239

Why dont Postmodernfags just admit that Hegel was the end of Philosophy?

>> No.14621265

>>14621209
idk I probably did it wrong. Nietzsche and Philosophy is a good place to start, but really Deleuze was against arboreal approaches to philosophy so he would have been against reading lists. Pick something that you want to read and read it.

>> No.14621272

>>14621024
this was for you btw I forgot to @ you
>>14620958

>> No.14621284

>>14621265
true, in A Thousand Plateaus they say you can read the book in whatever order you like. i like to take the PDF word search function and dive in and out of certain word-concepts to see their various contexts

>> No.14621303

>>14620833
Anti-Oedipus was easier for me than Phenomenology of Spirit

>> No.14621315

>>14621024
>>14621231
Amazing. Fantastic explanations. Honestly this alone has helped me a lot. I think I needed someone to really ground me to what it is. For some reason I completely managed to miss all the points but as soon as you directed me to exactly what it was... everything sort of clicked. Going to reread and start from the beginning knowing all of this.
Thank you!!

>> No.14621386

>>14620833

I would suggest listening to some of Manuel DeLanda's lectures on YouTube, he explains a lot of deleuze's concepts very well