/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.14618726]

What do Christians make of the verses like Matthew 5:38-40:
>You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well.
How were these teachings ever part of a religion with its own warriors and strong nations and crusades?

[Anonymous No.14618736]

>>14618726
Read the original Greek. It's a mistranslation. The original actually encourages you to fight back.

[Anonymous No.14618751]

>>14618736
Based retard.

[Anonymous No.14618752]

>>14618726
Catholics learned to ignore, or at least not preach about, the verses that would jeopardize their power - also why Protestantism and it’s modern iterations are so shit despite being more true to the actual scripture

[Anonymous No.14618757]

>>14618736
Prove it.

[Anonymous No.14618775]

>>14618726
you have to become an omega point. basically you just tank negative energy assaults instead of redirecting them to someone beneath you. has nothing to do with being a pussy, and we should kill every goddamn heretic who think it does, because a heretic is a disease which must be cured, not some guy you're mad at for trivial reasons.

[Anonymous No.14618838]

>>14618736
Ἠκούσατε ὅτι ἐρρέθη, Ὀφθαλμὸν ἀντὶ ὀφθαλμοῦ καὶ ὀδόντα ἀντὶ ὀδόντος. 39ἐγὼ δὲ λέγω ὑμῖν μὴ ἀντιστῆναι τῷ πονηρῷ: ἀλλ' ὅστις σε ῥαπίζει εἰς τὴν δεξιὰν σιαγόνα [σου], στρέψον αὐτῷ καὶ τὴν ἄλλην

how do you read this as encouraging fighting back? especially since the next part talks about also giving your cloak to the one who takes your tunic

[Anonymous No.14618859]

>>14618838
Ah, but that is also a mistranslation. The Greek word for "cloak" is very similar to the word for "cloak that was coated in poison so as to kill the person who wears it". Simple mistake, really

[Anonymous No.14618862]

>>14618726
Simple: you are to resist mild offense and discomfort on the personal level. You are entitled to self-defense (see Luke 22:36, in which Christ tells his apostles to buy swords). Obviously the right to self-defense extends to the collective or national level as well.

[Anonymous No.14618879]

>>14618838
It has a different connotation in Greek. You wouldn't get it, Angloman.

[Anonymous No.14618907]

>>14618862
This guy gets it.
/thread

[Anonymous No.14618967]

>>14618838
>ἐγὼ δὲ λέγω
>eggo de leggo

[Anonymous No.14618987]

>>14618859
Kek

[Nemo !!GgBWHLRiayD No.14619326]

>>14618726
They discern the pathetic judaic meddling with an originally Christian source, and its corruption into the chimeric abomination that is judeochristianity, and the judeochristian bible.

That verse is typical of the fatalistic resignation, and contenful selfcondemnation, that characterizes judeochristianity in general, and protestantism in particular, both of which morbidly conflate selfpractice with the aforementioned.

Any individual who feels himself/herself disposed to/affined with the cardinal principles of Christianity, should start with reading the Nag Hammadi Bible, followed by: "Pistis Sophia", and other authentic Christian texts; only after comprehending what Christianity consists in, should they proceed with either: "The New Testament", discerning the pollutants from what concurs with Christianity, or: "The Old Testament, primarily regarding it as a historical text describing the deeds of: Ialdabaoth/Uranus, YHWH/Jupiter/Satan, and their minions.

>Perhaps people think that I have come to cast peace upon the world. They do not know that I have come to cast conflicts upon the earth: fire, sword, war.
- Jesus Christ, Gospel of Thomas, verse sixteen.

[Anonymous No.14619405]

>>14618726
Friend, take the Frithjof Schuon pill. The discrepancy in verses like this comes from the fact that Christianity, at its core, is an esoteric faith. This is an esoteric verse, that if you follow its conclusion, ultimately leads to the golden rule, to love ones neighbor as oneself. This contains the truth that the neighbor is no different than the self, that God is present in everything. Ultimately, this verse then signifies humility before God, which means acknowledging the Holy Spirit of God within yourself.

[Anonymous No.14619600]

There is difference between a personal enemy and an enemy that is threating your family, nation, and faith. Read the Church fathers. Christianity has never been about pure war or pure pacifism. It is situational and there are verses to support both in their proper context.

[Anonymous No.14619656]

>>14618726
This quote is about resisting evil. This quote is not endorsing pacifism, but rather is instructing you to not lash out when your emotions get the best out of you. OBVIOUSLY, there is a time to fight and a time to act peaceful. Your misunderstanding of the text is the reason why you weren't able to see how the bible inspired great warriors.

[Anonymous No.14619670]

What i heard is that Greek contained a distinction between private and public enemies. Private enemies are like family and friends and neighbors, whom you are to be gracious towards. The greek does not say you must give way to public enemies, such as foriegn armies. But I dont know. Sounds like a cope. The most important lesson I've learned from the bible is humility. Thats thw reason so many resist it. People are too proud and are personally offended by the very thought of being humble.

[Anonymous No.14619693]

>>14619326
Fuck off retard

[Nemo !!GgBWHLRiayD No.14619830]

>>14619693
?

[Anonymous No.14619837]

>>14619830
>screencap
I'm genuinely fascinated at how retarded gnostics are

[Nemo !!GgBWHLRiayD No.14619851]

>>14619837
If you have nothing to contribute to the topic of discussion - abstain from posting.

[Anonymous No.14619863]

>>14619851
Perfect advice for all Gnostic fags

[Anonymous No.14619867]

>>14619863
It's better suited for Catholics and other Demiurge/Pagan worshippers.

[Anonymous No.14619892]

>>14619867
And yet here you are in a Christian thread, commenting on a Book that has had profound influence on the development of all of human history
But I guess a couple of fanfics about jesus fucking mary are peak topics of discussion

[The Prophet !!lwPyLS41HmK No.14619906]

>>14619892
You know I'm no school administrator, but I got an extension program going on in my pants.

[Anonymous No.14619923]

>>14618726
>Crusades
You think those lands were Muslim lands? You think they deserved it? Islam didn't exist until the 7th century. Who do you think lived there before that? Whose blood was spilled? They don't own the middle east, there were Christians there before Mohammad was shitting his diapers.

[Anonymous No.14619939]

>>14619892
Gnosticism can also be Christian. We just focus on the real stuff, not in fake gods.

[Anonymous No.14619955]

>>14619939
Gnosticism is a fan fiction account of Jesus superimposed onto a brainlet understanding on neo platonism. Original Gnostics focused on nothing real, and contemporary gnostics are just new age larpers.

[Nemo !!GgBWHLRiayD No.14620114]

>>14619955
>>14619892
1. You do not comprehend anything regarding Christianity/Gnosticism.

2. Christianity/Gnosticism pertains to noble (derived from root: "gno-") lifestyle, actualized in the mediatory motion of optimization of: oneself, the world, and this Kosmos.

3. Neoplatonism is a judaic corruption of Platonism, just as judeochristianity is a judaic corruption of Christianity.

You should abandon the vulgarly preconceived, and socioinstitutionally instilled, notions of Christianity that you possess from being indoctrinated via the judeochristian canon, and begin to think for yourself.

[Anonymous No.14620130]

>>14618726
This clearly doesn't mean don't defend yourself or be meek. It mainly means don't take personal offence and hold grudges.

[Anonymous No.14620143]

>>14618967
I love you

[Anonymous No.14620182]

>>14618726
Jesus gives this sermon after denying the temptations of satan. It's not about never fighting back, it's about not letting yourself be tempted into evil by evil acts. The point is that being a good person is more important than punishing evil doers. That means you will often need to let evil go without facing justice, but it doesn't matter because retaining your virtue is more important, and those who do evil will suffer by their own actions regardless.

[Anonymous No.14620188]

>>14619326
>and other authentic Christian texts

Is "the Sayings of the Desert Fathers" an authentic Christian text? What are the others?

[Anonymous No.14620199]

>>14619923
The Crusaders were menace to everyone, Muslim or not. They looted and ransacked every country they passed through on their way to the Holy Land. Once they arrived, they cheerfully cooperated with the local Muslim despots whenever it was convenient, and married Muslim women in open defiance of ecclesiastical authorities. They also fought amongst themselves and refused to work together, which weakened their already tenuous hold on their new conquests and put the entire enterprise in jeopardy.

[The Prophet !!lwPyLS41HmK No.14620224]

>>14619326
>Nag Hammadi Bible
>Authentic Christian Texts
>Includes Extracts of Plato

HMMMMM....

[Anonymous No.14620240]

>>14619326
based
>>14620224
cringe

[JN !!vXXhA/qzhjm No.14620562]

>>14618726
Some people think this means you should never fight back. I see their point but disagree because of >>14618862

It's very easy to get into an endless feud like a bunch of white trash hillbillies if you don't cut people some slack once in a while. Look at the society of Jesus' time and how often they got ganked by the Romans because they were picking fights with each other.

>>14618736
No U

Sperging out over language is not justified because the Bible is not a magical cookbook with indexed answers to all life's problems. You'll just have to decide for yourself whether the ideas make sense. Would you reject a mistranslation that was even more profound than the original?

[Anonymous No.14620567]

>>14620114
Right like I said, you're a retard and you just demonstrated it conclusively.
>>>/x/

[Anonymous No.14620576]

>>14620240
You realize that Plato said the Demiurge is good right? Gnostics didnt even read Plato correctly

[Anonymous No.14620595]

>>14619830
>Judas a genuine disciple
Care to explain this?

[Anonymous No.14620633]

>>14618726
It's one thing to turn your own cheek, and quite another to abandon others to destruction

[The Prophet !!lwPyLS41HmK No.14620670]

>>14620595
In the Gnostic Gospel of Judas the other 11 are basically just false disciples who don't understand Christ's true message or from whence he comes, but Judas does. Jesus tells Judas he can reach that place too. Jesus also tells Judas to hand him over to the authorities but also tells him when he does he'll be made to suffer greatly by the other apostles. After everything is said and done the other apostles stone him.

[The Prophet !!lwPyLS41HmK No.14620676]

>>14620240
U mad?

[Anonymous No.14620813]

>>14618726
Christianity is SUPPOSED to be above the profane, it's not some Jewish book of law.

[Nemo !!GgBWHLRiayD No.14621164]

>>14620188
No; I recommend:

- The Nag Hammadi library.
- "Pistis Sophia".
- The Gospel of Judas.
- The Gospel of Mary Magdalene.
- The Gospel of the Perfect Life.
- The Essene Gospel of Peace.
- The Apocalypse of John.
- "The Book of Two Principles".
- "Mundus Millennialis".

>>14620224
>>14620576
Christianity comprehends, both: the shortcomings of the philosophy of Platonism, and the accuracy of most of its concepts, which concur with Christianity.

Incidentally: why is it that whenever a topic/discussion regarding Christianity is brought up, there is always that one individual who implies that a subscription to (an) aspect/s of Platonist philosophy devalues, or invalidates, Christianity, or a genuinely Christian text? I think that it is because that individual ignores what is Christianity in the first place, and, due to being an unwitting victim of judeochristian indoctrination, cannot fathom the possibility that a genuine Christian may subscribe to an aspect of an idealistic philosophy, or worldview, with which he/she shares affinity.

>>14620595
Judas Iscariot, beside comprehending Jesus Christ's teachings, also came to know, via revelation, the inevitability of the future of the current demiourgic church, and understood the importance of completing his task for the fulfillment of God's plan in collecting all noble souls at the end of the world.

[Anonymous No.14621454]

>>14618859
lmao

[Anonymous No.14621883]

>>14618726
This is only an issue because retards reject the Old Testament entirely. It's a reference to Leviticus 24:17-23. That verse talks about how punishment should be proportionate to the crime. Jesus rebukes, not the law, but the usage of the law to be vengeful. He does this with people's interpretation of adultery and other things, so Jesus rejecting the corrupted meaning of the Law isn't unusual.
/pol/ is a blight onto this site, as they insist on finding something to die for since they have nothing to live for. They reject the Old Testament as Canon and then cherry pick the New Testament for random verses, defeating the purpose. The OT has great value in terms of theology, poetry, wisdom, and historical accounts.

[Anonymous No.14621893]

Whenever Christians are looking for a reason to be bellicose they ignore Jesus and dip into the Old Testament where God is a bloodthirsty warlord who commands his followers to conquer and despoil in his name.

[Anonymous No.14621903]

>>14618862
They buy swords and then christ tells them not to use them when he gets arrested even though apostles were ready to defend him. Besides that all apostles died like bitches according to christian tradition and none died fighting.

[Anonymous No.14621919]

>>14620576
He never said that. You're mistaking Plato for Plotinus.

[Anonymous No.14622862]

>>14621164
Christianity is rooted in Judaism. Christ's coming is predicted in a prophecy of Isaiah. Christ frequently refers back to those prophecies, and much of his ministry and teaching pertains to old jewish law. This idea that you can extract Christ from the background context of Judaism is nonsense. The gnostic gospels are a load of horseshit and none of them can be substantiated as legitimate.
>>14621919
>he never even read the Timaeus
Fucking gnostics

[Anonymous No.14622882]

>>14618726
he was being sarcastic

[Nemo !!GgBWHLRiayD No.14623018]

>>14622862
>Christianity is rooted in Judaism.
That is a false statement.

>Christ's coming is predicted in a prophecy of Isaiah. Christ frequently refers back to those prophecies, and much of his ministry and teaching pertains to old jewish law.
How is that relevant to your previous statement?

>This idea that you can extract Christ from the background context of Judaism is nonsense. The gnostic gospels are a load of horseshit and none of them can be substantiated as legitimate.
If by: "cannot be substantiated as legitimate" you are referring to your inability to synthesize: the physical, the mental, and the spiritual, comprised, and comprehended, by, Christian/Gnostic texts, then, indeed, your spiritual deficiency precludes you from doing so.

[Anonymous No.14623020]

>>14618726
Delete this picture immediately.

[Anonymous No.14623025]

>>14618726
It means don't pick fights over trivial matters like someone slapping you, as violence is the logic of the short tempered and extremely dimwitted.

[Anonymous No.14623043]

>>14621903
>the virgin living a full life but dull life
>the Chad martyrdom that inspires an entire nation
Modernists are wussies elemayoh

[Anonymous No.14623046]

>>14618726
He says that you should ride the tiger. The more you try to resist degeneracy, the more powerful its bind is on you; just try to stay afloat as well as you can, or at the very least, avoid drowning in the sea of degeneracy.

[Anonymous No.14623056]

>>14623025
and if someone wants to take your things it's best to let him have whatever he'd like

[Anonymous No.14623073]

>>14623056
Yes, because something as trivial as a piece of clothing should not be worth fighting for, with that time instead being devoted to prayer and reading.

Retard

[Anonymous No.14623087]

>>14620114
that is not what noble means though.

[Anonymous No.14623093]

If it means dont pick up fights but defend your country its lame, but if it means dont ever fight back and always take the damage its great, because you have made one single thing the master principle of existence and everything else is thrown on its pyre.

[Anonymous No.14623103]

>>14623073
clothing can literally be a matter of life or death in multiple environments, including areas in the region of the bible.
someone stealing your shit is not trivial. christcucks are so fucking pathetic, you deserve to be walked all over.

[Anonymous No.14623104]

The sermon on the mount is the most important part of christianity.....its what defines you as christian. its foundational.

[Nemo !!GgBWHLRiayD No.14623110]

>>14622862
>>14623018
Also:
>and much of his ministry and teaching pertains to old jewish law.
Any mention of the latter is either: purely formally referential, or the result of blatant judaic corruption.

Jewism, Judaism, and Zionism, are as antithetical to Christianity, as tradition, religion, and colonialism, are antithetical to Spiritualism.

[Anonymous No.14623118]

>>14623103
"The plain instruction is, Suffer any injury that can be borne, for the sake of peace, committing your concerns to the Lord's keeping. And the sum of all is, that Christians must avoid disputing and striving. If any say, Flesh and blood cannot pass by such an affront, let them remember, that flesh and blood shall not inherit the kingdom of God; and those who act upon right principles will have most peace and comfort."
-Matthew Henry's commentary.
"The general principle which he laid down was, that we are not to resist evil; that is, as it is in the Greek, nor to set ourselves against an evil person who is injuring us. But even this general direction is not to be pressed too strictly. Christ did not intend to teach that we are to see our families murdered, or be murdered ourselves; rather than to make resistance. The law of nature, and all laws, human and divine, justify self-defense when life is in danger. It cannot surely be the intention to teach that a father should sit by coolly and see his family butchered by savages, and not be allowed to defend them. Neither natural nor revealed religion ever did, or ever can, inculcate this doctrine. Our Savior immediately explains what he means by it. Had he intended to refer it to a case where life is in danger, he would most surely have mentioned it. Such a case was far more worthy of statement than those which he did mention."

[Anonymous No.14623264]

>>14623018
>>14623110

>arbitrarily synthesize a bunch of philosophies because I like jesus but hate Jews
Gnosticism is a joke. The gnostic gospels are fan fics. None of them can be demonstrated as authentic gospels from the apostles. The philosophy is self contradicting and absurd.
Flesh is evil but Jesus came in the flesh?
Jesus died for what exactly? Not to attone for original sin?
How can a good substance be made evil? What does it mean for good or evil to be a substance at all? How can the immutable be turned mutable?
The demiurge is produced from the monad, so evil comes from good? You thought you solved the problem of evil but just push it back by a degree.
How do Ideas copulate to make new ones?
Why is the world evil if its modeled after the good Ideas?
The entire New Testament is a jewish conspiracy?
Obviously Judaism js annulled by Christ. That has literally nothing to do with what i said about Christs coming being rooted in a Jewish context.
Give me a break. You're ignorant, deluded, and paranoid and it all culminates into a point of pretentiousness.
Gnostics took christ and tried to model Him into a Platonic religion, and they fucked up on both counts.
>>14623087
Gnostics dont know what they're talking about

[Anonymous No.14623376]

>>14623264
I agree with you for the most part, but isn't the imperfect-perfect dichotomy that's a key point in neoplatonism (and thus, gnosticism) an explanation of sorts for 3, 4, and 6?

Gnosticism was literally the "New Age" sort of fast-food spirituality of its day. The more outrageous the claims, the more sensational they are, the bigger the likelihood that someone will believe in them not because it's actually right, but because it gives a sense of being "enlightened". It's the coward's way out of the difficult to navigate maze that is theology.

If you must choose a spiritual system on the basis of aesthetics, for some reason, then hermeticism has gnosticism beat anyway.

[Anonymous No.14623481]

>>14623376
> key point in neoplatonism (and thus, gnosticism
Not quite. Gnosticism wants to have its cake and eat it too. It is a bastardization of Christianity, Platonism, and Neo Platonism by trying to suggest that there is both neoplatonic emmenation as a source of Being but also a Christian Creation ex nihilio for a source of existence. They suppose that combining the two can solve the problem of evil by making a gulf between the Good Monad and the the evil creation thus making good not responsible for evil. This approach fails in that ultimately it still supposes thay evil is an actual generated thing that comes from Good. It contrasts with Christians who view evil as an absence of Good and also contrasts with NeoPlatonists who see evil as a distance from good. Gnostics fall into the Manichaeist trap of assuming evil to be an actual substance, which has been thouroughly demonstrated as a metaphysical impossibility. Not to mention that combining emmenation and creation ex nihilio makes for a very complicated system. Gnosticism very much is just a syncretization betweem dominant philosophies at the tine, which is why I assert the gnostic gospels to be nothing more than fan fiction. They like the Christ archetype, but dont want to be limited from idolatry and to worship of the God of Abraham.
>Gnosticism was literally the "New Age" sort of fast-food spirituality of its day.
Absolutely correct, and I would assert that its resurgence is exactly the same today. It is New Age bullshit for people who think they're too smart for energy crystals.
>because it gives a sense of being "enlightened"
Yes, I've spoken with many gnostics, and they always have the same sophistic, pretentious attitude. They think they're enlightened and smarter than everyone else because they've caught onto a spirituality that is unknown to most people. You'll notice they also have a love for conspiracy theories, thinking they know the "true hidden history" because they watched a youtube video that is 3 times removed from the zeitgeist.
Ive been getting increasingly agitated because the past few weeks some schizo from /x/ must have just discovered /lit/ and thinks his bullshit belongs here because its vaguely adjacent to philosophy.

[Anonymous No.14623541]

>>14623481
Really, gnosticism feels like Philo of Alexandria's laughably bad syncretism of platonism and judaism, but even worse.

[Nemo !!GgBWHLRiayD No.14623573]

>>14623087
You mean:
>That is not what: "noble" means in the vulgate.

>>14623264
>Flesh is evil but Jesus came in the flesh?
Flesh is neither: good, nor evil; flesh is merely a vessel.

>Jesus died for what exactly? Not to attone for original sin?
No; the erroneous concepts of, both: "original sin", and Jesus' death for the sins/errors of others, are typical of the nescience of judaism, and of the idleness of protestantism, respectively; Jesus' death was both: symbolic, and intrumental, its purpose being directed toward the revival of Nobility in a spiritually decaying world.

>How can a good substance be made evil? What does it mean for good or evil to be a substance at all? How can the immutable be turned mutable?
I reiterate: your spiritual ignobility, and deficiency, preclude you from recognizing: how it is that evil is an aberration of terror, what spiritual transmutation consists in, how it is that God's pattern permeates all that is living, how it is that ideas become revealed, etcetera.

>The entire New Testament is a jewish conspiracy?
No; it is a judaized corruption of Christianity.

>That has literally nothing to do with what i said about Christs coming being rooted in a Jewish context.
That is not what you said.

Instead of vulgarly projecting your own ignorance onto others, you should rather strive to learn, so that you may find the answers to the questions that you asked by thinking for yourself.

>>14623376
You are just as wilfully ignorant as the poster above you.

[Anonymous No.14623604]

>>14623573
Who do you think you are fooling, faggot? Get the fuck out of here with your Alan Watts-tier poorly understood syncretistic nonsense.

[Anonymous No.14623607]

>>14623541
Philo wasnt that bad. He was an early pioneer on the subject so I'd go easy. From what I read about him, he didnt have very many original sources and went off mainly on commentaries from the stoics. He at least understood Platonism and recognized that the Creator wouldnt be evil. I'm always amazed at how Gnostics hold Plato in high esteem but fail to miss the most important part of the Timaeus where it says the Demiurge is good.
Generally speaking, the Platonizing of Jewish tradition was a fucking mistake. Only Christianity acheieved a reasonable balance.
I mean, just look at the pretentious garbage written here >>14623573

[Anonymous No.14623624]

>>14623264
>None of them can be demonstrated as authentic gospels from the apostles.

Same's true for the canonised gospels

[Anonymous No.14623637]

>>14623607
Yeah, I guess he deserves to be cut some slack. Still, I feel like he paved the way for guys like >>14623573 to emerge, even if he surely didn't intend things to go that way.

I should have clarified that my distaste for him comes from just how adamant he was about syncretizing judaism and platonism at all costs, than the inherent contradictions of his system.

[Anonymous No.14623664]

>>14618726
>that pic
I am so fucking erect right now.

[Anonymous No.14623677]

>>14618726
I want to see all christians killed.

It'll be a win win since we'll get what we want and they'll have no choice but to forgive us, which is what they supposedly want.

[Anonymous No.14623709]

>>14623677
You must be 18 to post on 4chan.