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/lit/ - Literature

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14613635 No.14613635 [Reply] [Original]

>there are unironic marxists browsing this board right now
h-how’s it going, c-comrade?

>> No.14613642

>>14613635
Just larping for pussy, mate. Don't mind me.

>> No.14613666
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14613666

>>14613635
Hello comrade. I thought /lit/ was Marxist?

>> No.14613673

Bretty good. I'm gonna start texting for Bernie tomorrow and I'm also trying to get involved with my college's DSA branch.

>> No.14613684

>>14613666
/lit/ is a pseudo Chistian hemi marxist high hegalian quasi descartian cesspool of crypto and explicit fascist mystic kabbalian idealistic materialism.

>> No.14613687

yes this is a board for fiction

>> No.14613689

Karl Marx with would SHIT on Bernie Sanders

>> No.14613704

>>14613689
Marx advocated for supporting the most left wing group in your country. This is why in the Manifesto he endorses multiple bourgeois parties. Because they were the most progressive political parties in their respective countries.

>> No.14614564

>>14613704
I'm a rightoid and I do this because supposed rightoid parties are traitorous liberals. It's all about context and what is feasible. Yeah I would like to annihilate nation-states and democracy and secularism and minorities, but for the moment I vote social democrats likely to actually achieve something good while easily managing the economy better than liberals (despite that being their sole gimmick).

>> No.14614572

>there are GIRLS browsing right now
haha I-I wonder what they think of my posts *blushes*

>> No.14614634

>>14613704
Blatant lie. He did not.

>> No.14614742

>>14614572
>I wonder what they think
I don't. They don't think.

>> No.14614776
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14614776

I agree with the Marxists about some things, like labor theory of value being true in conjunction with use value of unprocessed resources. I just don't like their materialism. I feel like it draws people away from God.

>> No.14614783

Marx came to a few good conclusions but his reasoning was shit. Socialism is good, but materialism is bad.
>>14613704
>>14614634
You both have got to cite your sources now, please.
>>14614742
I'm thinking right now, faggot.

>> No.14614812
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14614812

>uuuh he was merely being ironic

>> No.14614828
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14614828

>>14613635
as to be expected of right-wing socialists

>> No.14614834

>>14613673
Why Bernie and not Yang? I understand the appeal of universal healthcare, but ubi is a foot in the door for labor theory of value. Once the foot is in the rest will follow.

>> No.14614853

>>14614828
What's the real ultimate difference between a left- and right-wing socialist?

>> No.14614860

>>14614853
Social spending for the majority vs. social spending for minority interest groups would be my retarded distinction.

>> No.14614863

>>14614853
one includes morality

>> No.14614864

>>14614860
do even understand what socialism is or are you an american?

>> No.14614880
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14614880

How do you do, fellow left wing (((intellectuals)))?
I too love reading the Frankfurt School and trying to brainstorm ways to subvert white people.

>> No.14614889
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14614889

>>14613635

>> No.14614891

>>14614880
Are you pretending to be a fascist pretending to be a leftist? How many layers is this?

>> No.14614898

>>14614860
Which one goes to which? I'm technically a right-winger I suppose. I am devoutly religious and anti-materialist, I am a patriot, and am considered a conservative sort by its standards. I consider "democracy" to be just a different way of shuffling around the wealthy through the positions of power and am skeptical of it; there is too much idolatry of it. Do these things make you a right-winger if you also support socialist economics and have no problem with other races or the majority of immigrants?
>>14614863
Which ones? There are people who would be called right-wing socialists who are quite nihilistic, and then there are those who would be called left-wing socialists whose ideas are rooted in Catholic social teaching rather than Hegel.

>> No.14614909

Marxism - nationalism for poor and lazy people.

>> No.14614911

>>14614891
It's a straw post-leftist ironically parodying a straw leftist's condescending parody of a straw fascist's attempt to pretend to be a straw leftist. I have constructed the post-leftist of straw.

>> No.14614916
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14614916

>>14614898
Ah so you're one of those "radical centrist" types

>> No.14614917

>>14614909
Marxism - nationalism for retarded subhuman animals*

>> No.14614919

Marx and Engels ended philosophy. I love how some people try to cope "r-reading a bunch of dumbass Greeks from the 4th century BC who had never been initiated or studied proper the material world is muh real philosophy.." Lmao give me a break. Daily reminder that if you haven't read Marx you'll never understand what's wrong with modern philosophy. Philosophers have hitherto AND thereafter only "interpreted" the world in various ways; the point is to change it.

>> No.14614932

>>14614917
90% of Marx is compatible with nationalism or ultranationalism. Try reading.

>> No.14614935

>>14614864
Not all social services are universally used. I'm saying a right wing socialist would support healthcare spending over education spending. One is inarguably a universal need. There is arguably a case for benefiting from an educated society, but right wing would prioritize the most universal spending first.

>> No.14614936

>>14614916
Are you really a "radical centrist" if you have strong opinions in favor of religion, morality, and the preservation of traditions in addition to what are typically "left-wing" economic policies and anti-imperial views? I am not a racist or an anti-homosexualist. I am not a fascist because fascism places the state before God, the family, and the nation. I am not necessarily a "Christian Democrat" because I am skeptical of the so-called "democracy." What am I?

>> No.14614945

>>14613684
Jewish, in other words

>> No.14614951

>>14614936
Dude shut the fuck up no one cares how quirky and unique you are go back to tumblr you sad fucking loser

>> No.14614954

>>14614935
I think a left-wing socialist would also support diverting resources and funds to healthcare spending over education if they really had to make a choice. I think both would want to spend heavily on education even in a case in which resources/funds were limited, because citizens who can read and do math are an asset to the nation/red utopia and they would need to indoctrinate the children into the new system. To shift to a left- or right-wing socialist system would require the removal of the neoliberal programming found in most Western schools these days (or perhaps the theocratic or traditional programming in some countries such as Saudi and Brunei).

>> No.14614955

>>14614945
yes.

and no. there would have to be some polytheism and postmodernism to be fully that.

>> No.14614976

>>14614919
>the point is to change it.

Ah shit, we killed 100 million people then just went back to capitalism anyway. Whoopsydaisy.

>> No.14614985

>>14614951
>/lit/
>thread turns to discussion of right- and left-wing socialism
>ask what differentiates the two
>give examples that highlight flaws in the definitions given to try to find an accurate definition
>"go back to tumblr you sad fucking loser"
>>>/mlp/
You have to go back.

>> No.14614988

>>14614935
>>14614954
Social spending doesn't equal socialism.

>> No.14614996

>>14614985
Nice cope

>> No.14615009

>>14613635
go on CTH op

>> No.14615010

>>14614988
It does in application

>> No.14615015

>>14614936
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_socialism

>> No.14615019
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14615019

daily reminder

>> No.14615023

>>14614834
>here's your monthly neetbuxs, now you don't need healthcare or pension or help with the landlord raising the rent a thousand bucks

>> No.14615024

>>14615010
brainlet

>> No.14615026
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14615026

>>14613689
Take someone who's a committed revolutionary, thinks we really have to throw out whatever there is of the capitalist system and market system and so on, take someone like that. They're still reformers. All the people you mention are still in favour of developing a decent health care system through government intervention because that's the only option. None of them say "lets not improve lives of people because we'd like to see a revolutionary change." They'd all be in favour for example.
Take say OSHA, the safety and health goals in the workplace, for years its been declining under Bush probably disappeared. But everyone you mentioned would be in favour of strengthening those regulations, they're government regulations.
Because what you're in favour of if you're serious, and the people you mention are, is pressing the institutions to the limits. Seeing what they can achieve. You're not gonna get mass popular movements trying to overthrow the institutions until people recognize they cannot satisfy our needs. Therefore you try to press reform as far as possible within the structure of existing institutions meanwhile developing alternative institutions from within building the future in the present society.
That goes on simultaneously.

>> No.14615032

>>14614880
>I too love reading the Frankfurt School and trying to brainstorm ways to subvert white people.
you let your paranoid nonsense override your attempt to blend in

>> No.14615033

>>14615024
Enlighten me how applied socialism is different than social spending.

>> No.14615039

>>14615033
Paris Commune

>> No.14615047

>>14614911
Based.

>> No.14615054

>>14615023
Universal healthcare and housing is of course the goal, but I think it is harder to sell people on labor theory of value without a small piece of it in action. Once you win that battle, the rest are trivial in comparison. In the short term Bernie makes sense. In the long game I think UBI is THE crucial step.

>> No.14615085

>>14615039
I didn't know about this, but I was admittedly being imprecise with my language. My usage of "applied" was meant to refer to successful or stable implementation of socialism.

>> No.14615143

>>14615085
why do you even come to this board if Wikipedia is all you read?

>> No.14615261

>>14613666
And the morons at the bottom can't see it's just more of the same with new masters. Holy shit, humanity is beyond redemption.

>> No.14615264

>>14615261
Right, everyone's a moron except for you!

>> No.14615287

>>14615264
Yeah, me and some other guys. Anyway, good luck.

>> No.14616607
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14616607

If you're not a Marxist Leninist then you're doomed to never comprehend the world and you'll forever be a slave.

>> No.14616638

>>14615143
To occasionally get btfo like I just did and learn something because of it.

>> No.14616665

>>14616638
Actually unironically based.

>> No.14616705

>>14614634
Don’t make me dig up my copy of the Manifesto just to prove you wrong, comrade. Toward the end he gives a list of parties that workers should support in various countries, and at least two or three were openly bourgeois parties.

>> No.14616725

>>14616705
Oh here:
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch04.htm

Key passages:
> In Switzerland, they support the Radicals, without losing sight of the fact that this party consists of antagonistic elements, partly of Democratic Socialists, in the French sense, partly of radical bourgeois.
> In Germany, they fight with the bourgeoisie whenever it acts in a revolutionary way, against the absolute monarchy, the feudal squirearchy, and the petty bourgeoisie.

>> No.14616766

>>14614834
UBI is good. Yang’s implementation of UBI, however, would slash welfare and social programs and doesn’t come attached to federal rent control, both of which mean it’s fundamentally bourgeois and regressive in nature.

There’s a reason Silicon Valley vultures support him.

>> No.14616823

>>14616766
>UBI is good
UBI is a capitalist idea to maintain bourgeois rule. In practice it will mean workers in imperialist nations become an unemployed, directionless mass living off the labour of oppressed nations.

>> No.14616829

>>14616725
>> In Germany, they fight with the bourgeoisie whenever it acts in a revolutionary way, against the absolute monarchy,
a HA
that's why we call you all leftists

>> No.14616848

>>14616823
Are you also opposed to welfare in general then?

>> No.14616948

>>14616766
If you take his promises at face value then welfare programs would not decrease other than the natural reduction from ubi providing more than current received benefits so it is the better option. He's on the record saying that current welfare would adjust to the effect of ubi.

I completely agree that no federal rent is a big gamble on the free market.

I think it is important because it effects the bourgeoisie. That's exactly what needs to happen for any traction to be made. It's a first step not an ideal solution.

>>14616823
We're approaching the point that the oppressed workers would be automated labor. It would be good to get the framework started now. I don't believe any meaningful change could be done at this point to stop the exploitation of oppressed nations other than accelerating the development of automated labor.

>> No.14616998

>>14616848
Orthodox sorts of Marxists would say that welfare is bread and circus.

>> No.14617172

>>14613642
it works so well. pretending to be woke for pussy has made me think very poorly of women.

>> No.14617246

>>14617172
redpill me on what women find attractive about being woke

>> No.14617314

>>14616948
The Industrial Revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race.

>> No.14617330

>>14617314
The invention of the pointed rock and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race

>> No.14617674

>>14616848
If workers can win concessions under capitalism then I support that. But it is only a means to an end; that of ending capitalist appropriation entirely. Welfare under capitalism is just rewarding workers with their own crumbs.

>> No.14617697

>>14617330
The evolution of speech and opposable thumbs and their consequences have been a disaster for the human race.

>> No.14617857

>>14617314
A nightmarish period of growing pains before we sever all ties with antiquity. Ted wasn't wrong about the predicament. We're literally busying ourselves with the industry of killing the defining human identity that shaped us. I think he was a bit short sighted that the death of the human animal was the death of humanity and not a further evolutionary stage. Besides, we can always regress. We are still endowed with a lizard brain base after all. Ted was the speaker for the lizard brain that recognized it was facing extinction. We aren't going to magically stop valuing the lizard brain entirely for its novelty. We just don't want to be ruled by it.

>> No.14617887

>>14617172
>I fooled others into thinking that I care about the well-being of other people.
>Jokes on them, I'm actually a selfish asshole.
>What losers.

>> No.14617901

>>14617857
You haven't read his books have you?

>> No.14617986

>>14614834
> Labour theory of value
There's your first problem

>> No.14618023
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14618023

>>14613635
>There are unironic readers browsing this board right now

>> No.14618301

>>14617697
Ironically I tweeted this almost verbatim on twitter yesterday

>> No.14618855

>>14615054
its not, its a substitute for them and other public services

>> No.14619699

>>14613635
Its going well, Finnish read Capital Yet? Tell me, what does 20 yards of linen get you?

>> No.14620072

>>14613635
I’m doing well, how are you?