/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.14578455]

Why does post-modernism holds so much influence over "intellectuals" and "academics" when it has been either consistently dismissed or met with great opposition by society at large?

[Anonymous No.14578456]

>>14578455
who cares what the plebs think?

[Anonymous No.14578459]

>>14578455
Because society at large doesn't care about intellectualism, go back to your Peterson lobster lectures bucko.

[Anonymous No.14578462]

>>14578455
There is no current realistic alternative so we have to deal with it

[Anonymous No.14578464]

I've lost all respect for authority of all kinds. Just because a piece of paper says you're an expert does not mean that everything you say is true, and it doesn't mean I'm obliged to respect you. Respect is earned, not given.

[Anonymous No.14578474]

>>14578464
Yeah I remember turning 14, enjoy it while it lasts.

[Anonymous No.14578488]

>>14578474
awww who's a big boy?

[Anonymous No.14578497]

>>14578464
Yet you fully believe 4chan memes and Trump tweets.

[Anonymous No.14578505]

>>14578497
no and blumpf is an israeli plant

[Anonymous No.14578528]

>Why does post-modernism holds so much influence over "intellectuals" and "academics"
It is interesting and probably accurate.
>when it has been either consistently dismissed or met with great opposition by society at large?
It's not only subversive, but also not terribly useful.

[Anonymous No.14578647]

>>14578528
>It is interesting and probably accurate.
You mean convenient.

[Anonymous No.14578769]

because its an interesting way of confronting the limits of our senses and intellect and fuck what plebs think.

[Anonymous No.14578784]

>>14578455
Are literally any of those descriptions accurate?

[Anonymous No.14578787]

Dunno, with all the shit going on today, with all the way it's hitting one with the internet, isn't postmodernism the most accurate portrayal of that? Maybe there never were real truths, but man is it noticeable nowadays.

[Anonymous No.14578818]

>>14578455
It's just really hard to characterize how outdated this whole discussion is. I don’t think any serious academic has used thought of “Postmodernism” as a big spooky trademark term since the 90s, hence why people still rattling on about it like JBP are disingenuine as fuck. Sure, there are exceptions in departments where this stuff is apart of the curriculum or even trade-required, like Comp. Lit, but the only people who find his shit novel are undergrads projecting their individual discovery onto the timeline of academic history or dumbasses who got caught up in buzzwords they read in articles you can probably find crosslisted on /pol/.

[Anonymous No.14578939]

>>14578784
No

[Anonymous No.14579000]

>>14578488
not you

[Anonymous No.14579029]

>>14578455
Because the exact depiction of modernism in this image of society, technology, humanity and art as a single upward trending line is clearly, demonstrably false. We can't just stick with a failed ideology because it was clean and easy to understand.
Besides, all the art that made a point of being meaningless was made in the 1920s and 30s and we're over it now. The public needs to get with the times because dadaism is dead and their criticisms of postmodernism are nearly a century behind.

[Anonymous No.14579044]

>>14578528
>probably accurate.
What does this even mean

[Anonymous No.14579109]

>>14578647
It's the most inconvenient possible ideology, thus:
>It's not only subversive, but also not terribly useful.
>>14579044
It means that it may be more correct than other worldviews which are more useful. The most productive, healthful, etc. worldviews are not necessarily the most accurate.

[Anonymous No.14579129]

>>14579044
It means he believes it but hes a post modernist and literally can't take any stance on anything without immediately setting up a backout.

[MKULTRA CHAD: SUPERCHRIST PONT(...) No.14579130]

>>14578455
trump is a truly post-modern president.
the end of postmodernism is the post-modernization of the plebs, the 'critical thought' of denying the obvious, decrying the unpleasant truth for minor shortlived gains

[MKULTRA CHAD: SUPERCHRIST PONT(...) No.14579134]

>>14579029
based Hockney poster

[Anonymous No.14579135]

>>14578455
>when it has been either consistently dismissed or met with great opposition by society at large?
Society at large doesn't even know what pomo is

[MKULTRA CHAD: SUPERCHRIST PONT(...) No.14579235]

>>14579135
society is a hole

[Anonymous No.14579298]

>>14578455
They're CULTural marxists

[Anonymous No.14579350]

>>14578456
exactly who gives a shit about academics especially burger academics

[Anonymous No.14579355]

>>14579350
Academics are intolerable midwits on average but still more tolerable than actual plebs

[Anonymous No.14579450]

>>14578455
Literally the CIA. I'm not joking. Also
>checked

[Anonymous No.14579503]

>>14578455
Because it means you can chat absolute shite without having to show your working in any truly honest sense, which is meat and drink to pseudointellectuals. Get them together in a group in an ivory tower and an emperor's new clothes dynamic emerges naturally. Fuck pomos, fuck jannies, fuck niggers, and fuck you.

[Anonymous No.14579582]

>>14579235
It makes me lie to my friends
Postmodernism fits with the powers of dissolution at work

[Anonymous No.14579613]

>>14578464
>t.teenager

>Respect is earned, not given.
Yeah, you earn the respect by doing the things necessary to get the piece of paper.

[Anonymous No.14579620]

>>14578455
Self-referential critical analysis by (((certain groups))) and midwits aping those "elite opinions" for an unearned sense of worth.

Also see: progressivism

[Anonymous No.14579629]

>>14578474
it goes from not respecting authority to respecting authority back to not respecting authority, but its okay i remember being 18

[Anonymous No.14579640]

>>14578818
so what do they talk about now if pomo is over

[Anonymous No.14579650]

>>14579640
anime existentialism

[Anonymous No.14579680]

>>14579613
When the things that are taught and the mechanism for obtaining that piece of paper is suspect at best and illegitimate at worst - what level of respect should that piece of paper demand?

[Anonymous No.14579703]

>>14578459
This.

[Anonymous No.14579782]

what is postmodernism? no meme answers please

[Anonymous No.14579789]

>>14579782
There are no answers. Literally nobody can precisely define postmodernism.

[Anonymous No.14579807]

>>14579613
Sorry, but sucking cock (either literally or metaphorically) and being an intellectually dishonest piece of shit won't earn you my respect.

[Anonymous No.14579828]

>>14579782
Dissection of metanarratives and explanation of discourses.

[Anonymous No.14579845]

>>14578459
Alright, I have to ask seriously, what was JBP's actual fucking crime

Yes he uses terms like pomo and neomarxism lazily, yes there are far more clearheaded accounts than his of the origins of the current intellectual rot in the universities. Yes OP's pic is retarded and barely scratches the difference between modernism and pomo. But when people throw their hands up and act like they have NO CLUE what JBP is talking about, like there's no evidence for a state funded fifth column circlejerk of shit-tier academics all citing and signal boosting each other to confer legitimacy on their work, you're either ignorant or up to something

[Anonymous No.14579877]

>>14579845
>state funded
How so? Federal grants and loans for researchers and students respectively?

[Anonymous No.14579885]

>>14579845
>you're either ignorant or up to something
one of the pivotal moments in my intellectual development was when i realized "never attribute to malice what could equally be explained by stupidity" was probably first said by a very malicious person

[Anonymous No.14579888]

>>14579845
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXYuqrO8LLo

disclaimer: instant ear rape intro

[Anonymous No.14579889]

>>14578455
because metanarratives don't real, see >>14579029

[Anonymous No.14579904]

>>14579888
Who is this and what does he say?

[Anonymous No.14579957]

>>14579904
Peterson is a dishonest gatekeeper and there are a number of "blind spots" in his logic. Further, he doesn't actually believe in what he's saying against the Left, he's only concerned with the Right's reaction to it and what that might bring in the future.

So he spins a lot of obscurantism around self-improvement to pacify people that are and should be upset about modern culture and where we're going. He's a relief valve that only further culturally atomizes young midwit men. He's also explicitly anti-white.

[Anonymous No.14579967]

>>14579888
I'm 3 minutes in and I already know that the message is going to be "he didn't say 'gas the kikes race war now 1488' on his big stadium tours, therefore he's controlled opposition"

You people are beyond saving; obviously he wants to retain his platform and maybe someday be able to settle down into something like a normal retirement without him and his family being chased by pitchfork mobs thinking he's a neo-Nazi

And moreover you can totally get there from here, his discussions about the implications of IQ research are redpilled as fuck. If the lightbulb doesn't go off in your head to say "gee I wonder if this differs between racial demographics" because Peterson doesn't spell it out for you down to the fucking letter, you're too dim to grapple with any of this stuff anyway

[Anonymous No.14579968]

>>14579885
Hanlon, specifically

[Anonymous No.14579971]

>>14579957
He is definitely not as bad as /lit/ wants him to be.

[Anonymous No.14579993]

>>14579845
Brainwashing the masses of uneducated white men into thinking that communism is bad is his worst crime. We need them on our side.

[Anonymous No.14579998]

>>14579957
>He's also explicitly anti-white.
?

[Anonymous No.14580004]

>>14579993
Horrible bait

[Anonymous No.14580024]

>>14579789
>he is arguing about literally nothing

[Anonymous No.14580038]

>>14578455
>when it has been either consistently dismissed or met with great opposition
This isn't quite true. Sure, a small contingent are very vocally against post modernist thought, but generally that thought has infiltrated all corners of discourse.

[Anonymous No.14580046]

>>14579957
Lol the self-improvement is "obscurantism"? Because God forbid a critique of identity politics be subordinate to any greater worldview that's actually life affirming

In fact that was part of the brilliant subterfuge of 12 Rules; they thought it was gonna be some manifesto but it was a self-help book with his politics miles in the background

It is positively surreal to see anons on 4chan of all places pretending they have no idea why "clean your fucking room, take better care of yourself and maybe get out of the house" was a revolutionary statement. Peterson was the first remotely mainstream personality since perhaps Warren Farrell (whose last network TV appearances were so long ago they were on fucking Donahue and early 90s Oprah, and he never got invited back once he started saying the stuff Peterson is saying) to say explicitly that men in the west are having a full-scale crisis of meaning

How can you see the avalanche of screeching catlady interviewers all dispatched to try to maneuver him into some BTFO moment on prime time TV and not think that there is some kind of dominant narrative and he's subverting it? He pisses off so many of the right people and has enough verbal IQ to keep them from stuffing all the usual kill words in his mouth

You can lead a horse to water and JBP will lead you right up to some serious redpills, this just seems like complaining that he's not jamming them down your throat

[Anonymous No.14580197]

>>14579845
>circlejerk of shit-tier academics all citing and signal boosting each other to confer legitimacy on their work

Yep

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AZZNvT1vaJg

[Anonymous No.14581055]

>>14580197
Bookmarked for later, can you give me timestamps for the juicy bits? I hate sitting through the 2-3 hour JRE podcasts because so much of it is off topic

[Anonymous No.14581098]

>>14578455
Post-modernism hasn't been dismissed. When it works you don't notice it. When it doesn't, you do.

[Anonymous No.14581112]

>>14580046
>life affirming

Get that voodoo shit out of here

[Anonymous No.14581131]

>>14578455
What do you mean? Analytical philosophy dominates universities now, unless you're an American.
Why do Americans import the worst of Europe? Foucault is nearly irrelevant here nowadays.

[Anonymous No.14581195]

>>14578464
Lurk more before you make posts you fucking minor. When you get past b& age then post. Or better yet, get of the board.

[Anonymous No.14581208]

when does school start again, the midwits here are killing the board.

[Anonymous No.14581236]

>>14581195
>get of the board
>of

[Anonymous No.14581385]

It's simply pretentious and that is academia in 2020

[Anonymous No.14581396]

>>14578474
>>14579613
>>14581195
ok boomers. I'm 21 btw

[Anonymous No.14581410]

>>14580038
Just because it has been infiltrated doesn't mean it has been accepted. I doubt your average middle-class american is ok with post-modern definitions of say gender identity, or to put it more bluntly, trannies and chopping the dick off little boys.

[Anonymous No.14581511]

>>14579967
>Peterson do we have to bake the cake for gays?
>No my childe
>Do we have to bake the cake for blacks?
>Yes my childe

[Anonymous No.14581556]

>post-modernism is an ideology
and other memes to tell yourself

[Anonymous No.14581564]

>>14578455
because its completely forced. it was created by people who sniff their own farts so that they could feel like they were on the cutting edge of history, when in reality we still haven't stopped being modern, we're still going strong with the ethos of protestant capitalism. the truth is that anything that not explicitly against every single aspect of modernity is doomed to be a mere part of it. a few kikes making shitty art is not a historical epoch.

[Anonymous No.14581569]

>>14579888
>shitty intro music
>soft spoken s(o)yboy voice narrating over clips of JBP talking
>30 minutes long
fucking cringe

[Anonymous No.14581587]

>>14581569
>open channel
>Second newest video is moon landing denial

[Anonymous No.14581603]

>>14581569
His detractors on the right are somehow even more insufferable than the ones on the left desu

[Anonymous No.14581630]

>>14581587
>Individually, wolves are apex predators on their own, but it is through the wolves' pack hunting instincts that they reign. The wolf pack manifests supreme, unchallenged domination of its territory.

[Anonymous No.14581656]

>>14581630
>Description RISE FROM YOUR GRAVE, CHILDREN OF EUROPA! I am Wolfish, and this is Resurrection Europa. Someone who is made an outlaw by the system is declared "caput lupinum", literally "wolfish head"

[Anonymous No.14581670]

>>14581656
at least he believes in something and wants to help, i can see that virtue in him. but fuck, if he isn't like 19 or younger, it might be autism.

[Anonymous No.14581686]

>>14578464
Pretty much this, credibility is dead. Hell there’s a crisis right now because as much as half of all experiments are unrepeatable.

[Anonymous No.14581855]

>>14581410
None of the people I hear criticizing postmodernism seem to understand it on any level. You don't name authors and explain your opposition to the points they raise, you just vaguely gesture at pride parades and trannies as if they are synonymous with all artistic and philosophical movements of the past ninety years.
If anything transgenderism is a distinctly modern phenomenon, with the main idea being that the marvels of today's medicine mean you can fundamentally change every aspect of yourself to be whatever you want. Bending nature to human will is possibly the central kernel of modernism as a movement. Postmodernism is the acknowledgement that this is a fool's errand, that these things are governed by forces you can never hope to control.

[Anonymous No.14582115]

>>14581855
First off, postmodernists have a pretty rich history of dividing the world into people who agree with them and people who didn't grasp the text

I think you could probably make the argument that the whole obsession with binary oppositions (particularly the gender binary) began with Derrida who was of course butchering Ferdinand de Sassure. Yes I know deconstruction is not technically pomo. But tranny madness is definitely the culmination of a few strands of theory about the performativity of gender and transcending the binary etc that have been kicking around for decades

Again I ask, if the most serious accusation against Peterson is that he uses "postmodern neo-Marxism" to encompass a lot of things that are neither pomo nor Marxist - if he has misapprehended the theoretical roots of today's bad ideas, in whole or in part - is there not still SOME coherent body of thought that undergirds most university narratives about power, privelege, difference etc? Do we have to pretend we have no idea what he's talking about or that his credibility is completely shot through because someone he called "postmodern" is actually poststructuralist? deconstructionist? Someone he called neo-Marxist is actually a Lacanian? etc

[Anonymous No.14582252]

It's a gaggle of midwits regurgitating baroque jargon with nauseating faux radical chic posturing, an intellectual embarrassment rivalling only Hegelianism.

[Anonymous No.14583088]

>>14579782
communism

[Anonymous No.14583799]

>>14579613
cringe and you know it, ur piece of paper is only as good as whoever issued it

[Anonymous No.14583856]

>>14578528
>subversive
>not terribly useful
what does this even mean? subversive inside your mind? subversive "on paper"? it certainly is not subversive in any sense of the word as understood historically, since these academics do nothing but write stuff from their armchair and uncritically hop on political bandwagons that were formed from without their sphere of intellectual influence

[JN !!vXXhA/qzhjm No.14583862]

>>14578455
"Intellectuals" wasted their youth and, frequently, loads of money in school. They think it's not fair that someone with talent can be better than them without any effort at all. So merit has to be based on memorizing a formula or following conventions so that the "right" people will succeed.

It's the same principle as feminism. "Pretty girls have to be illegal so guys will look at me".