I am not sure if it is his best, but I really think this is Dost's most underrated work.

[Anonymous No.14575316]

[Anonymous No.14575359]

I'm going to read it soon, I heard that there's a lot of contemporary Russian political and societal issues covered. Are the endnotes in that edition sufficient or should I study up on something else?

[Anonymous No.14575384]

Whenever I saw this image I thought the guy had like crazy evil eyes and was like "looking up" at you; he looked possessed. Then I got the book and realize he just has his eyes closed.

[Anonymous No.14575486]

>>14575384
lol, I like the cover because it shows the last phase of being a demon. Depression and sadness at all the harm caused. The possessed takes too much agency away from the characters.

[Anonymous No.14575516]

>>14575316
Just started House of the Dead, this will be my next one, how is it so far

[Anonymous No.14575529]

Is P&V best for Dostoyevsky's works? I'm thinking of starting with The Brothers Karamazov

[Anonymous No.14576073]

>>14575529
Don't make the mistake I made. You will be better off with McDuff

[Anonymous No.14576096]

>>14575316
Can someone please tell me why the lady was mad at Stephen (the old man paranoia)? I can't find the answer online anywhere.

[Anonymous No.14576133]

>>14576096
Implying anyone here has actually read it lol.

[Anonymous No.14576136]

>>14575529
having read both macduff and p/v, i can honestly say both are fine. Mduff is a bit more 'flowery' compared to p/v and i enjoy rereading him more than p/v for that reason mainly.

[Anonymous No.14576143]

>>14576136
Well, how about the one in the op? Is the maguire translation any good?

[Anonymous No.14576175]

>>14576096

What point in the novel are you referring to? Varvara is kind of hysterical woman when it comes to Stepan so shes always mad about something.

[Anonymous No.14576193]

>>14576143
>Is the maguire translation any good?
It's competent, but I really prefer the Michael Katz translation.

[Anonymous No.14576215]

>>14575316
This book features plenty of short French phrases, as one of the characters is a multilingual university professor who uses French to assert his intelligence in casual conversation. But this book had ENDNOTES instead of FOOTNOTES, so unless you speak French you will have no idea what this character is saying (unless, of course, you like flipping back and forth while you read). But if you're really that hardcore, shouldn't you just read this in the original Russian?

The same goes for all the allusions to Pushkin and 19th century pop culture, which most translations would include in footnotes so that you can understand them as you read. But shoving these to the end, the publisher makes it a lot harder to understand this book unless you're a Professor of Russian Literature.

The book itself is worth reading. People love calling it a "flawed novel" and all sort of other self-indulgent epithets, but it's one of Dostoevsky's most philosophically-direct pieces and thus extremely relevant to the study of his writing. This edition includes the bowdlerized chapter "At Tikhon's," which a must-read after finishing the main text.

[Anonymous No.14576271]

>>14576215
I never understood why publishers mandate endnotes over footnotes, are there editions that do footnotes?

[Anonymous No.14576273]

>>14575316
I thought Crime and Punishment was better, especially with Sonia and Svilgradov

[Anonymous No.14576278]

>>14576273
yeah I shed a tear on how their story ended

[Anonymous No.14576284]

>>14576175
She leaves Stephen's house and he grabs a pipe and she startles him through a window and says "I'll never forgive you for that" and they never talk about it again.

[Anonymous No.14576305]

>>14575316
>not posting the best cover

[Anonymous No.14576313]

>>14575359

I read this edition and it was fine, but like
>>14576215 said I really wouldn't have minded the French be directly translated in the text and italicized so we know it's French.

[Anonymous No.14576316]

>>14576305
Kys

[Anonymous No.14576330]

>>14576284

I took that as her being upset that Stepan never explicitly sought more from their relationship than her patronage. However knowing her she probably would have refused him anyway.

[Anonymous No.14576425]

>>14576330
Do you think a lot of the agony of the novel could have been avoided if he had stepped up here? If he had been brave?

[Anonymous No.14576490]

>tfw I fell for the P&V meme
>bought their translations of Brothers, Demons, and Idiot after reading Notes from Underground and C&P
I know translations are up to personal preference at the end of the day, but how much did I really fuck myself and sabatoge my enjoyment/understanding?

I know I shouldn't be worried since I enjoyed what I've read so far and haven't had much trouble reading them, but they seem to get far, far more criticism than any other translator

[Anonymous No.14576522]

>>14576490
P&V being bad is a meme, don't take it too seriously. some people prefer other translations that have more richer prose, but P&V make completely acceptable, accurate translations. if you have not had an issue so far then it's fine.

[Anonymous No.14576532]

>>14576425

Certainly possible. Although to your first question, that moment was brought up again near the end when stepan is on his deathbead

[Anonymous No.14576545]

>>14576522
That's what I'm thinking, but the amount of articles, some from academic journals, tearing them to shreds makes me worry that I'm getting a lesser experience.

I guess it's fine at the end of the day, reading C&P still had a profound effect on me, and if I still have the chance to check out other translations if I want to reread them

[Anonymous No.14576553]

>>14576490
The primary issue to me is that they're basically just some fucking guy (two people but basically) just some fucking guy as opposed to a scholar with a serious understanding of the time the novels were written in and represent, the backgrounds of the authors for example literary influences, intimate knowledge of the language at a level that catches as much inflection etc as possible...
They're just some fucking guys. She translates from Russian and he "makes it readable to a native English speaker" (paraphrase). They deserve serious credit for doing these translations when they did and starting the ball rolling. They are leaps and bounds better than the mostly Garnett that was prominent at the time, but they've been surpassed.
You're not fucked, you're just not ideal.
>>14576522
I respectfully disagree; See above.

[Anonymous No.14576565]

>>14575316
Interestingly, I recently learned that Nabokov's favourite Dostoy novel was The Double, coming from before his time in Siberia and thus lacking any of the more bizarre beliefs which would manifest and dampen his later works.
I agree, actually, but for different reasons. I just really liked The Double.

[Anonymous No.14576588]

>>14576565
Isn't The Double similar to Notes from Underground?

[Anonymous No.14576593]

>>14576522
>P&V being bad is a meme
Not bad, just subpar when compared to other superior translators/translations like David McDuff, Jessie Coulson, Ignat Avsey and Michael Katz.

[Anonymous No.14576595]

>>14576143
I'm kind of drawn to it because it was his dying wish to see it published. Revising his drafts was like the last thing he did in this world.

[Anonymous No.14576600]

>>14576593
>they've been surpassed
Agreed.

[Anonymous No.14576607]

>>14576271
footnotes clutter the text imo

Try reading a Kaufmann Nietzsche and you'll see what I mean.

[Anonymous No.14576608]

>>14576600
Meant to respond to >>14576553

[Anonymous No.14576616]

>>14576522
>I AM A WICKED MAN

[Anonymous No.14576621]

>>14576595
Press F for our boy Robert. F

[Anonymous No.14576640]

>>14576532
This is a big part of the reason it still itches at my brain. The biggest hint I could find is her kind of envy when she tries to marry him off to the young woman. (I read it a few months back and I'm bad at retaining Russian names sorry).

[Anonymous No.14576642]

>>14576553
Well, I read a comparison of the opening passage of C&P and I really disliked Garnett's, so at least I'm not reading that.

I guess I'll just try to forget about it for now and read what I have, and then check out other translations further down the line. Maybe they don't have a good understanding of the time (I certainly don't) but there's a ton of endnotes that help with that

[Anonymous No.14576704]

>>14576642
Seems like the right plan to me. It's not something I'd buy a new set of books over. If they have good endnotes then you're set I'd say. Do try to notice the humor in the book as well, it's easy to miss I think. The impressions of literary publications at the ball really cracked me up. Demons is a relentlessly dark and upsetting book, but the humor that shines through kept me going as much as anything else. The Turgenev character in particular is pretty much "writing an entire mostly unrelated character into your book to own the libs" but it lands well. Also be sure to read the censored chapter at the right point.
>>14576621
F

[Anonymous No.14576768]

>>14576704
Thanks for the heads up anon, I did get a few laughs out of what I've read so far so that's a good sign. Definitely looking forward to Demons

[Anonymous No.14576804]

>>14576704

I thought reading the censored chapter after the ending was pretty fitting as well considering how it ends.

[Anonymous No.14576902]

Literal capeshit ad absurdum. Too vague, too culturally dependent to stand alone

[Anonymous No.14576936]

>>14576902
Can I interest you in a telescope?

[Anonymous No.14576945]

>>14576215
I do speak French and that sounds fucking sick.

[Anonymous No.14576971]

>>14575384
This.

[Anonymous No.14577442]

>>14575529
>>14576073
>>14576136
McDuff is more polished. P/V’s translation is more authentic to the original Russian. It has more of the roughness you can get from Dostoyevsky

[Anonymous No.14577446]

>>14576313
>I really wouldn't have minded the French be directly translated in the text and italicized so we know it's French.
Typical amerimutt opinion

[Anonymous No.14578242]

>>14577446
It's true I'm blind to the beauty of French, I'm not afraid to admit it. If I buy a translation I want it translated.

[Anonymous No.14578250]

For fellow German-speaking anons : Swetlana Geier's "Böse Geister" shits on every English translation I've sampled so far. I can recommend her work wholeheartedly.

[Anonymous No.14578258]

>>14575384
I can't unsee it now, lmao

[Anonymous No.14578282]

>>14575316
it's a haunting book - i liked C&P better just due to personal history with being a crestfallen law student.
what is it rated as so one can judge whether it's underrated?

[Anonymous No.14578287]

>>14578250
how does she do in comparison to Hermann Röhl?

[Anonymous No.14578303]

I would place it second behind brothers k. I found the character's interesting although Stephan got annoying sometimes.

[Anonymous No.14578333]

>but I really think this is Dost's most underrated work
Sorry OP, but this is

[Anonymous No.14578397]

>>14575316
I was depressed 2 months after reading it
Nothing came close to unraveling certain aspects of critical events for me; the way it deconstructs the Revolution even before happening (50 years earlier is mind-boggling.

The only other book which did this to me was Eco's Pendulum of Foucault

[Anonymous No.14578407]

>>14575384
You know that the original title for the book in Russian is "Besi" which literally translates as "The Possessed"

It's the reason why the book starts with that extract from the Gospel about the evil spirits which exorcised posses nearby pigs and jump a cliff

[Anonymous No.14578469]

>>14575316

Definitely his most prophetic and the most on the nose about atheistic nihilism. Lefties (for lack of a better term, let's just say academic socialists and their ilk) absolutely hate this book I've found, and their one concilliation is in the surrealism and madness of it all. I have a translation of Ignat Avsey's for Humiliated and Insulted and in the back is a small timeline and summary of Dosto's works and their impact and it tries to skirt around any of the very real intentions. Dosto was noted to have said in a letter when he was developing this idea and having heard about a recent murder in a revolutionary sect and his own experience in the Petrashevsky cirlce that led to his exile and "regeneration", that it was a work that might sacrifice artistry for the sake of saying what needed to be said.

Demons is the book that effectively demonstrates that Crime and Punishment WAS a warning about the nihilistic youth, and how his post-exile works were developing into a coherent "reactionary" and religious stance. The extreme socialists and revolutionaries could no longer interpret C&P and his other works in the way they were/are (even up until modern times) in good faith if people were even slightly aware of the context in Demons.

Which is why, as a conspiracy sidenote, I fully believe that it is one of the hardest of Dosto's works to come across. I have been to at least 3 different city bookshops to find it, and while you're always see C&P, Underground, Idiot and BK, you'll only ever get maybe short stories like the gambler, or House of the dead as any variation and this Demons is ignored because it would enlighten the people that misinterpret C&P.

[Anonymous No.14578498]

>>14578407
>which literally translates as "The Possessed"
No it doesn't. It literally means 'devils'.

[Anonymous No.14578525]

>>14576588

Not that guy, but yes it is in a way. Golyadkin is the proto-typical "underground man" in many ways. The book is not about the same kind of political, social and religious issues that would define his later work, but in a way, Notes from the Underground was a way of reviving the chracter of Golyadkin with more to say.
Dosto was convinced that the poor reception of the Double was an injustice, but he was not in a position to write against the grain, so to speak, for much of his life. Post exile, it took him around 5/6 years to get to the point where he was able to focus on his writing of novels alone, instead of his work with the journal Vremya(time).
In many ways, Underground was an attempt to retell the life of a Golyadkin type without the narrative ambiguity and fantastical elements.

[Anonymous No.14578529]

>>14575316
I was kind of disappointed by it at first, but thinking back on it I have realized all of the important things that happen in the novel are only referred to, like the novel itself is a superficial layer and what is actually happening is never specifically mentioned, i.e the "demons". I don't think any of the real characters were actually "demons", but instead manifested their influence. Now I see it as a masterwork in perception. Or maybe I just didn't get it the first time around because I'm not Russian.

[Anonymous No.14578537]

>>14578529

If russians got it the first time around, there wouldn't have been 1917

[Anonymous No.14578566]

>>14578537
damn too soon