Christianity and prayer

[Anonymous No.14553454]

Books on proper Christian prayer without images?

Blogpost:
>I let Jesus Christ into my heart recently after being dissatisfied with so much modern degeneracy and filth in the world and I started praying to him.
>I fully believe in him and the other Gods, the Holy Spirit and the Father, who are all One.
>I watched a YouTube video by some Mudslime arguing fiercfully that one should never pray to an image and how it is bad for you etc.
>Got convinced by his arguments, even the Old Bible supported this view.
>Now I try not to picture Jesus when praying to him.
>Couldn't do it, tried praying to the Father - picture an old man from Michelangelo's art.
>Couldn't do it, tried praying to the Holy Spirit - picture a white dove flying around the Pentecost.
>Heard Catholics prayed to Mary, tried it, didn't work.

Literature to cope with this feel? What do I imagine when praying? Before this I was using an icon I first kiss, then look into and close my eyes and pray to it. But apparently this was considered as a form of disbelief and there was even a movement against it - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iconoclasm

[Anonymous No.14553463]

>>14553454
Imitation of Christ, Kempfis

What do you mean by, "didn't work"? It's not supposed to "work". Praying is not about how you feel, it's about holding conversation and worship of God. Images can sometimes lift the soul to God, since we can't imagine him anyways. You are a human after all

[Anonymous No.14553474]

>>14553463
I mean that I didn't feel much spirituality in me when praying to her. My mother had a statue of Mary in our old place though, I will go there tommorow and try finding it. Maybe praying directly to it will help.
>Imitation of Christ, Kempfis
Isn't this mostly about how to be like Christ and not how to pray to him? I'm too lowly right now to even attempt to imitate Jesus.

[Anonymous No.14553517]

>>14553454
The Cloud of Unknowing - Anonymous
On Learned Ignorance - Nicholas of Cusa

[Anonymous No.14553532]

>>14553454
I went to confession for the first time in almost 2 decades and felt nothing. The priest didn't understand my troubles at all. I've worked up the courage to do this for a long time and now I feel like maybe its not time for me to rejoin the Church after all.

[Anonymous No.14553533]

>>14553454
Reading this post makes me sad, it's like it's impossible to be anything sincerely without larping because everything genuine has been stapled over with representations of what we think the thing really is. Everyone is just doing an RP of what they think they should feel without ever actually sincerely feeling it.

[Anonymous No.14553536]

>>14553474
>I'm too lowly right now to even attempt to imitate Jesus.
If only you realized the beautiful irony of your statement.

[Anonymous No.14553610]

>>14553533
I don't know why you feel this way. I am just trying to find genuine spirituality in prayer and in Christ. The Mary one was the closest I got it to working, because I could actually feel her looking at me. While with Jesus I needed to concentrate very hard from memory.

[Anonymous No.14553640]

>>14553454
>I fully believe in him and the other Gods
>and the other Gods

[Anonymous No.14553643]

>>14553532
You should try more things. Maybe try something more communal like a small regular service, or try talking to a theologically inclined priest if you have an interest in that. Don't pin everything on one experience.

[Anonymous No.14553649]

>>14553643
I've been to church before, I was raised Catholic. I've been going to mass sometimes recently but haven't taken communion because I have been a long time away from confession. This was an attempt to get myself in the right state to do so. Perhaps a conversation with a priest outside of the confessional might be a good idea though.

[Anonymous No.14553665]

>>14553454

Ok Muslim here and I almost didn’t want to post but screw it im going to try to help.

Don’t picture anything when you pray, just put your mind towards God, put your heart towards God, and let the prayer flow, no, pour out of you. I can only describe it so abstractly, it’s not a precise thing, and when I started, I struggled as well with “what am I suppose to do”. But it was a Christian friend who instructed me this way and it has lead to be cultivating a beautiful relationship with God so hopefully it works for you. Again, just put your mind and heart towards God and push the prayer out of you, it is sort of like a vertical river flowing from your heart. At least that’s how I see it. But again, this is abstract, it’s intuitive, you will learn if you just keep trying. Also, make sure your intention is pure, I was turned off by the idea that you came to God because of the degeneracy in the world, that sounds very haughty, I say as someone who is incredibly flawed. Please, don’t think about the wickedness of others, think about your own faults and how you can improve upon them with prayer and actions.

>>14553532
>>14553533

My post is for you guys two. Again, prayer is not precise, but something to approached with humility, sincerity, and an open mind. You will feel it when it is real, don’t worry about larp and ideas of degeneracy in others. Make yourself as humble as you can before Him, please, throw away any ego or fear about “it won’t work” please just be humble and sincere and keep doing it and He will make Himself known to you. I prayed for months before faith was given to me. And when it was my life changed wonderfully. So please don’t give up guys, just keep trying and pray directly with your heart!

[Anonymous No.14553698]

>>14553665
Thank you for your response and your intentions, confession anon here. I pray every day and I hope that I can find the faith that you have.

[Anonymous No.14553708]

>>14553698

Yes I believe that you will! One of my favorite sayings “you take one step towards God, He takes ten steps towards you” and it’s so true, just have patience! May He make it easy on you!

[Anonymous No.14553768]

>>14553454
philokalia

[Anonymous No.14553783]

>>14553454
well there's ofc the Cloud, St. John of the Cross, the Fathers of the Philokalia etc.pp. but these will literally be useless to you, seeing as you dont rly seem v. advanced; mediating on the passion is literally one of the most effecacious way of improving in the spiritual life

[Anonymous No.14553851]

>>14553783
>mediating on the passion is literally one of the most effecacious way of improving in the spiritual life
How does one do it? Is there a special statue I need to look at and pray to to make it doable even for someone as lowly as me? As I said, when I prayed to a picture of Mary on my screen I felt a spirituality. It was a warmth in my heart, something like I was truly loved by a divine female figure. But that's about it. It did not work as I heard about it elsewhere, when people prayed for miracles and they happened, etc.

[Anonymous No.14553924]

>all you need to do to get your needs fulfilled is literally pray to a f*cking statue or kiss the feet of a cross symbol on your neck
Can a Christian justify this retarded theology to me? If it was this simple, why do all people not do it and live in complete bliss with no needs and thus no suffering?

[Anonymous No.14553934]

>>14553924
>prayer is a christian invention

[Anonymous No.14553958]

>>14553934
Mary was/is a Christian invention, depending on how you see her Divinity, so is Kikesus. Still doesn't explain why we aren't living in a post-scarcity bliss where literally all our needs are satisfied.

[Anonymous No.14553967]

>>14553958
It's hard to explain. It's simillar to meditation but it feels different.

[Anonymous No.14553980]

>>14553967
So the best you've got is some f*cking eastern mumbo jumbo from a "peoples" so backwards they still cannot adapt to the modern values of pooing in a look?

[Anonymous No.14553981]

>>14553610
>spirituality
Are you a female or gay?

[Anonymous No.14553991]

>>14553981
No to first. Rather not tell to second.
How is this related to my prayer attempts though? Should I just get the statue and seclude myself for an hour doing nothing but praying to the Mary statue?

[Anonymous No.14554010]

>>14553991
>praying to the Mary statue
>the absolute state of catholicucks in 2020 anno domini

[Anonymous No.14554016]

>>14553454
I'm the same way. I think it's because my mind isn't good at visualizing.
Try envisioning things you love or feel about the world that He created. Keep moving your headspace around and you'll eventually feel -something-. Remember that it's natural for sin to flow out of your head and trust that God will evaporate it even when you're not consciously thinking about it.
And stay hydrated.

[Anonymous No.14554021]

>>14554010
Literally nothing wrong with it scripturally though.

[Anonymous No.14554040]

>>14553665
Thanks, man. (Woman?)

>>14553924
You need to have enough levels in cleric for it to work.I couldn't think about God until I started reading the Bible, because my idea of Him was just too broad/vague.
Religion, in the book-studying complicated theological sense, is not for everyone. Which is why I'm grateful that Christianity emphasizes that belief and ethics are the most important things.

[Anonymous No.14554049]

>>14553967
The difference between you going in and something coming out to you.

[Anonymous No.14554056]

>>14553851
don't even know where I should begin desu; best advice I have for you is to not listen to internet autists on spiritual matter, which are quite serious, the most serious of all infact, and not without danger; do, what generations of Saints have done before instead, talk to someone who knows what he's talking about (a priest; a real priest that is, not some protestant pastor bob)

[Anonymous No.14554078]

>>14553474
Brother, do not despair! The feelings you describe are a form of what is called consolation. It is a small actual grace from God, a little gift, to have mental images and feelings of reliosity. It is a terrible, terrible lie that you must feel gteat emotion in order to make good prayer. All the great Saints confirm this. Do not trust any movement which relies on such feelings as a confirmation from God, for a devil may send them just ss easily, in order to swell pride, or to induce despair at the sudden lack of feeling.

To pray dilligently even when one does not feel like praying--that is a greater act of religion than to pray when one is drawn to it. This is why habits of prayer are so good. It is why memorized prayers are so good. To say only one rosary, full of zeal and without practice--that is very challenging. If you wait for the right feeling, it may never come. However, if you make a habit of the rosary--oh, how glad God will be! Each time you say it, it will become easier to say. And though you will often feel dry, God will reward your perseverance. Remember, we do not pray for ourselves, but for the glory of God. What you do in secret, our Father, who sees in secret, will remember. If you do this things sincerely, when you have no motivation, when you have no motivation, when no one is there to see you, when you do not even know what to ask for--God will certainly remember this and be glad. Do not despair, my brother, but rejoice, fo you have entered the way of the Lord. God asks you to let him grow in you.

If you want to learn these things and more in more clear language and from someone with greater authority, read the writings of great saints.

The Imitation of Christ is a magnificent book. There are many hoky people for whom this book is the onky instruction. It will teach you clearly and gently good ways of pryaing. It will humble you, and you will be glad.

Another superlative book is Introduction to the Devout Life by St. Francis de Sales. I strongly reccomend this book. If I do not stumble or fall, I can confidently say the first two chapters saved my soul. This book will teach you the beginnings of devotion, even in ordinary life.

If you truly wish to dive into spiritual activity, The Spiritual Exercise by St. Ignatius of Loyola is a pillar of understanding. Few have ever been so gifted in their understanding of spiritual actions and the movements of the soul. This book, if followed well, will teach you the beginnings of spiritual discernment. However, with that in mind, I caution you. Many people, upon rediscovering faith, rush zealously into many promises and great ambitions of devotion. In the consolations theh have been given at the birth of Faith, they wrongly believe these feelings will be with them only. It is not so. These feelings are a gift frim God that we may begin more readily. But just like a child learning to walk, he will remove his hand so that we learn to walk on our own. (1/2)

[Anonymous No.14554116]

>>14553454
Orthodox and Catholics don’t pray to image we venerate them. They serve as reminders of God’s presence, not as idols. Have you heard of the Jesus prayer Anon? I’d recommend giving that a look and reading the psalms for awhile. Praying off the cuff isn’t always possible and can actively hamper prayer if you’re not going by the examples set by the psalmists, the gospels, and the Church Fathers, at first. God hears every word you say, so don’t be worried about the prayer not working. You’re not going to always “feel” something when you pray, and I caution you to avoid affecting your prayers with the intention of feeling something, that’s a good way to be assailed by other spiritual forces at your most vulnerable. For now, just ask for mercy, Anon. Also, if you’re really interested in Christianity, don’t learn how to pray from youtube, find a church. Hope this helps.

[Anonymous No.14554168]

>>14553454
Don't feel down, anon. /lit/ is here for you! As someone who struggled with the same problem, what helped me the most is buying a small statue of a calf painted in golden color and praying intensely to it as shown in pic related. In the Olden Times Christians used it to pray more efficiently when they did not know about Jesus yet.

[Anonymous No.14554170]

>>14553474
>>14554078
(2/2)
Having too great of ambitions in the beginning will make it easy to despair and give up all together when you inevitably fall short.

It is good, then, instead to set small goals and make little steps so that one may easily build upon what he has done.

For example, a practice I foolishly only learned (and am still learning) after I toiled so long in other devotions, is the simple habit of night and morning prayers. When we sleep, we have no use of reason, and demons are greatly inclined to disturb our thoughts and dreams, spoiling the day before we have even begun. A simple prayer at night, perhaps only a single Hail Mary, may help you sleep unmolested. And to begin the day with a simple prayer--or simply to sign the cross immediately upon waking--these are excellent devotion. To place God first in the day will aid greatly in setting the day to his purposes.

Be glad, brother, for God is reaching out his hand to you.

But to answer your first question plainly, what I have found useful is to imagine the feet of our Lord, nailed to the cross. When I do well, I begin humbly, from a distnace.

First, place in your mind that terrible sky, mottled with dark clouds and blots of bloody vengeance hanging in wait. Smell the dust of the desert, far from the city walls. It is about to rain, and the locusts make themselves busy. From a low place, you see the mocking throne, amde the glory of God--see the small figure of a naked man spread on a wretcged cross. Walk closer.

Find yourself at the place of the skull. Gathered before you are Roman soldiers, gambling and jeering. A crowd of jewish women weeps. There at the front is Mary, our holy mother, who appears to you more sorrowful than any other, though her perfect grief is her perfect beauty. There is no ugliness in her sadness. See the simplicity of her garmemts. See a rich black hair kept beneath a clean and well kept blue shawl. A dark blue, almost black, as though she knew she would be attending a burial. How few tears stroll down that perfect face, and yet how great thos simple tears are. She alone knows the fullness of what has happened. Go to your mother. Fall on your knees before her. You are not worthy to be with her. Ask her to show you.

Without a word passing, with onky the move of her head, see how she turns you to the beloved St. John. Of all the disciples, only he has come. See how he gazes in adoration and anguish at the Lord. Stand with him. Do not yet look at our Lord, but watch John. Learn his simple and pure love for our Lord. Learn how to follow like he follows.
(2/3)

[Anonymous No.14554224]

>>14553474
>>14554078
>>14554170
(3/3)
Finally, then, step closer. Stand at the cross. Before your eyes, without any need of looking up, are the feet of our Lord. How many miles they have walked. Once perfect and pure, passing gently over troubled waters now they have been torn, like the earth has eaten them. The rough hewn way of the lord has stripped the soles of his feet, raw and bloody.

See the nail. Nine inches of iron, snarled and fanglike. The serpent has struck. See the blood pour out. See the blood of Christ, like tears, on the knotty wood. Though it is dark, the desert heat is on your back. These are the feet of God. Real, present before you. The flesh of man, hung like meat, a victim for the guilt of the people.

In humility, do not now imagine his face, but stay only at the lowest part of him. Rember how the poor woman, only days before, had anointed these feet with oil, the whole and living man with oil.

This is your God! This is his love for you! Were you the only one, all this would he still have done, if only you would return to him, ye lost lamb. How undeserving you are, and yet God has still given freely. Rejoice, rejoice, your freedom is at hand! Lay your head on the Lord's feet. Know his humanity. God came to earth from heaven, and man killed him; God goes now back to heaven and would carry you with him. Pray. Listen. The man who knocks on his neigbors door for aid; the neighbor will not open; but, the begging man, the penitential man, he continues to knock; he knocks without ceasing; it is not the man's knocking, but his perverence which moves the neighnor's heart to mercy. Knock and it will be opened. Not by one knock, but by ceaseless knockinh. This, God teaches us, is what it means to pray. And, after praying, all he asks is that we follow.

[Anonymous No.14554377]

>>14554116
Not anon, but it does. Thank you.

[Anonymous No.14554404]

>>14553454
>>I let Jesus Christ into my heart recently
You got memed recently
>> after being dissatisfied with so much modern degeneracy and filth in the world
By shut-ins online
>> and I started praying to him.
Only thing you are doing right
>>I fully believe in him and the other Gods, the Holy Spirit and the Father, who are all One.
Uh huh, why?
>>I watched a YouTube video by some Mudslime arguing fiercfully that one should never pray to an image and how it is bad for you etc.
You are equally ridiculous
>>Got convinced by his arguments, even the Old Bible supported this view.
A real meeting-of-the-minds huh
>>Now I try not to picture Jesus when praying to him.
I'm surprised you can visualize objects at all
>>Couldn't do it, tried praying to the Father - picture an old man from Michelangelo's art.
That's funny
>>Couldn't do it, tried praying to the Holy Spirit - picture a white dove flying around the Pentecost.
You watched to many movies
>>Heard Catholics prayed to Mary, tried it, didn't work.
Respect women