/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.14516515]

>He thinks Homer is pro-war

[Anonymous No.14516533]

>*smashes OP's skull open and splashes his brains on the dry earth, his eyes darkened and he knew no more for down he went to the charnel house of death*

[Anonymous No.14516568]

Being pro- or against war is a modern heresy.

[Anonymous No.14516585]

>>14516515
>He thinks Homer existed

[Anonymous No.14516600]

>>14516515
>he thinks the Trojan War didn’t happen

[Anonymous No.14516612]

>he thinks “anti-war” as he imagines it is a meaningful position to ascribe to a bronze-age Greek
>he probably also thinks the Aeneid is fiction

[Anonymous No.14516615]

>>14516600
>He thinks the Gulf War took place

[Anonymous No.14516616]

>>14516585
German blockhead detected

[Anonymous No.14516641]

>>14516533

>Haunts you until you cannot withstand the agony of fear and go willingly into the underworld where everyone laughs at you because you thought Homer was celebrating warfare in the epics, of which the war-industry bloodlines burned the last 5 books after Iliad and Odyssey during the middle ages to make the epic seem like a pro-war ad for mindlets

You really think Achilles woulda killed Hector in a duel if Patroclus hadn't done that? Or would it have been like Ajax v. Hector all-day goodwill exchange; if the former event hadn't occurred, would Ajax have taken his own life - why is this left out of the movies?

[Anonymous No.14516762]

>>14516615
hehe

[Anonymous No.14516794]

>>14516641
it's like the Israelites bro. Homeric Greeks were necessary, they swam through the horrors of war and unvirtuous living to show us how not to. and yet, we continue to make all the same mistakes of them both until we learn the painful lessons for ourselves and turn our eyes to what is actually beautiful.

[Anonymous No.14516868]

>>14516794

You mean the dudes who stole classic art after they won WWII to stick it to everybody, and who make movies romanticizing that today?

[Anonymous No.14516930]

Or are you talking about black Israelites like Moses

[Anonymous No.14516933]

>>14516868
to whom are you referring? the us army? russian conscripts? "burgers"? the military industrial complex deep state centralbankworld (tm)?

[Anonymous No.14516976]

>>14516933

To the guy who posted that and won't reply, you double retard

[Anonymous No.14517013]

>>14516976
that's me, you triple dummy

[Anonymous No.14517035]

>>14517013

Well then I suppose the answer would be the noun in the first sentence of your post, Strawman

[Anonymous No.14517037]

>>14516515
>imagine having such a surface level and unnuanced understanding as being pro or antiwar.

[Anonymous No.14517045]

>>14516568
This.

[Anonymous No.14517051]

>>14517035
nah those were Jews. khazar/german mutts.

I'm talking about the Israelites of the bible who were stiff-necked and proud and disobedient to God.

[Anonymous No.14517066]

I decry that this thread has turned to psy-ops about current governments that were not mentioned in the Homeric epics and bid that we get back on topic, I wanna hear your arguments against.

[Anonymous No.14517071]

>>14516515
>he thinks

[Anonymous No.14517091]

>>14517051

You mean God as in God God or like Zeus? Do you realize what we're even discussing? Or do you have a one-track mind about any topic that magnetically tractors back to your opinion buzz

[Anonymous No.14517098]

>>14517066
against what? i already compared them to the Israelites of the bible. they failed, they were utter barbarians who waged war without mercy so that we would learn to not be like them. they and their wretchedness were the necessary to illustrate just how great the coming of God would be. that's literally the best thing about the virtues of men of the Homeric epics.

[Anonymous No.14517107]

>>14517091
see >>14517098

>You mean God as in God God or like Zeus?
The former.

>Do you realize what we're even discussing?
Yes. Do you?

[Anonymous No.14517155]

>>14517107

I am OP

[Anonymous No.14517186]

>>14517098

Arguments against the 7-piece Homer epics having been an anti-war tragedy, arguments for Homer having been pro-war. I would like to rebuke anyone privy

[Anonymous No.14517221]

>>14517186
Homer only wrote two works of the Epic Cycle

[Anonymous No.14517239]

It's massive faggotry and retardation to think either pro-war or anti-war.
Homer was pro-godliness.

[Anonymous No.14517247]

>>14517098

So are you saying that you consider Agaemmemnon and Menelaus to be the protagonists, and the heroes to be some kind of tragic example of what not to be? I would tear down your stance on that if the other 5 books still existed, but even with the 2 we've got you're clearly hocking your piece with this as a loose and unfitting allegory

[Anonymous No.14517265]

>>14517239

I think it's as much about romance, infidelity and betrayal as it is a religious poem, with war as a periphery

[Anonymous No.14517314]

>he thinks odysseus was greek

[Anonymous No.14517336]

>>14516515
>He thinks Homer is about war

[Anonymous No.14517357]

>>14517314

>Ithaca
>Not Greek archipelago

>You
>Not a faggot

Pick something damit

[Anonymous No.14517367]

>>14516515
(((greek)))

[Anonymous No.14517369]

>>14517357
>/r/lit classicists

[Anonymous No.14517385]

>>14517336

Wait are you thinking of The Simpsons

[Anonymous No.14517391]

>>14517247
>he thinks i think it's allegorical
I mean in some ways it is, I'm sure. Many myths are.

No, I'm referring to the Iliad and the Odyssey as works of literature and as products of their place and time. I don't think Homer had anything else to say about war that isn't clearly expressed already. It is terrible and glorious and men play at war but also commit to total war and genocide, and they do it for selfish material reasons and for noble reasons as well. War is very fucking simple in the trenches, and extremely complicated in theory.

In short to presume to call Homer pro-war or anti-war is the most brainlet move you could possibly make. They all played a part.

I was speaking more about the purpose of the Homeric epics in the development of the west, as a prelude to a new type of hero in Socrates and eventually Jesus. Righteous men who were sinless yet sinned against. The old type of heroes you are naming become fools in the dialogues, they are worldly material men represented by blustering sophists.

[Anonymous No.14517392]

(((Sunn))) (((O)))

[Anonymous No.14517405]

>>14516515
Homer(the yellow guy who looks like he's made of cheese) is pro sneed

[Anonymous No.14517411]

>>14517357
Odusseus is generally thought of as Pre-Greek name which is a good reason to think the mythology around Odysseus is Pre-Greek as well.
There are some hypotheses like preposition "o" (doesn't exist in Greek) + verbal root "dukj-" (doesn't exist in Greek) would be what the name consists of, making "odukjeus" a Greek name, but as said, the consensus is that it's not a Greek name.

[Anonymous No.14517416]

will someone please explain to me what in the FUCK is the philosophical existential purpose of sneedposters, what part in the divine plan could they possibly fulfill

[Anonymous No.14517432]

>>14517411
that's interesting anon, so what was he? macedonian? egyptian? semitic?

[Anonymous No.14517438]

>>14517391

Solid argument, but surely you can accept that Homer is very much held up by the pro-war establishment of contemporaneity as being a justificative positor of pro-war philosophy, never (that I've seen until positing this) that the epics were as much if not more anti-war in gestalt. It's like the way Shakespeare is taught as somber drama spoken slowly and not comedy spoken fast

[Anonymous No.14517462]

>>14517385
What else you could possible think about?

[Anonymous No.14517485]

>>14517438
>Homer is very much held up by the pro-war establishment of contemporaneity as being a justificative positor of pro-war philosophy
I really doubt this.

If anyone fits that description, it's St. Augustine. He took the *extremely fucking simple* doctrine of Jesus of Nazareth (love and forgive) and turned it completely upside down by creating and promoting the idea of a "just war": wars fought against the devil and his earthly representatives, ie anyone who espouses a different theology or who has resources that belong to us. Augustine turned loving Christ into loving war. That he saw the world in such brainlet good-evil terms suggests he wasn't quite fully recovered from his Manicheanism.

Homer was a storyteller.

[Anonymous No.14517514]

>>14517411

Is the etymology the basis of that theory? What if my name is Anon and that name's existed for ages, does that mean I'm fictionally adapted? Is it possible that it's just a name his parents liked, or is there more to the hypothesis than that, which would suggest it to be a cultural adaptation like what they say about Noah's Ark to Gilgamesh, and does that bring into contention the historicity of Homer's account of the Trojan war - I realize that it's probably an extravagant telling of an actual historical event but would it's fictionality or insertion really rely on whether or not the name of Ulysses originated in his own generation?

[Anonymous No.14517541]

>>14517462

Family Guy

[Anonymous No.14517569]

>>14517432
He was a NUBIAN BVLL

[Anonymous No.14517605]

>>14517569
OwO what's this

[Anonymous No.14517611]

>>14517432
"Pelasgian" most likely, but we don't know much about them. IIRC they are thought to have been paleo-European or Indo-European, but definitely not Egyptian nor Semitic. The -ss- element (like in Odysseus) is thought to be Pelasgian. It's quite common in toponyms in Greece, but also in Anatolia.

[Anonymous No.14517680]

>>14517611
based champion of gobekle tepe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpYnwSEqks0

[Anonymous No.14517807]

>>14517485

>I really doubt this. If anyone fits that description [...]

I mean it's not like there can be only one author held up as being pro-war, and the suggestion you give is a guy who you say espoused that philosophy outright, (probably didn't invent war) and not someone who has been misinterpreted to a converse of their own dialectic.

I realize now through no argument made here that I may have been a bit mistaken to have assumed that the hero/villain dynamic existed at all in storytelling during that era but it bears repeating that the Iliad isn't a Tom Clancy book and should be regarded less as the macho military porn that it was considered at the outset of this thread, as evidenced by the first post.

[Anonymous No.14517843]

>>14517411

I like that, does that mean that there is debate as to whether Odyssey was a fanfic by someone else like the Aeneid? That would explain half of the debate as to whether or not Homer existed at all

[Anonymous No.14517884]

The main point of Homer's works is that being a mortal is awesome. Do you even sacrifice, bro?

[Anonymous No.14517916]

>>14517884

Yeah, my time and dignity

[Anonymous No.14518022]

>Odysseus passes on immortality in paradise fucking a mega-hot nymph for all time to go back to his kid and wife on his rocky shithole island
was he based?

[Anonymous No.14518052]

>>14517843
Not really. Odysseus just sticks out like a sore thumb. Look into how western indoaryans viewed the bow as the coward's weapon and think why exactly Odysseus uses it.

[Anonymous No.14518189]

>>14518022
yes he was completely based. peter pan syndrome is for neets and losers.

[Anonymous No.14518232]

>>14516641
We still have fragments of the lost epics, no? What are they even about?