/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.14493056]

Books about why homosexuality was never openly accepted to the degrees preset in contemporary society?

[Anonymous No.14493454]

>>14493056
no book but ill summarise
>considered more lust and dalliance than divine and society-pillaring like the coupling of man and woman- past people were also more aware of the finer things and didn't think like horny robots as we do now (obsession with sex/drug/socialmedia induced pleasure and oversimplified mechanical worldview)
>not an identity (can't be pushed politically/economically or maintain itself independent of ongoing practice)
>existed within specific traditions or accepted hushed practice completely different in form, limits, and purpose to modern western homosexuality besides a rough outline of a similarity

[Anonymous No.14493515]

anon, i....

[Anonymous No.14493831]

>>14493515
Post sauce

[Anonymous No.14493870]

Homosexuality (specifically sodomy) flourishes when the population is wealthy enough to afford to bathe often. Why? Because disease. The part of your brain that dislikes poopdick is the same part of your brain that forces you to recoil from rotten meat and spoiled milk. It's a reaction center in the brain telling you that it's dangerous due to potential disease, which is theoretically the evolutionary cause of the disgust emotion.

Fags are indicative of other things as well, general wealth, multiculturalism, domicide and everything that goes along with it. As well as status being granted to those who go against social norms. It's a fad due to the social sink. It's happened throughout history and when we collapse and are forgotten it will happen again

[Anonymous No.14493947]

>>14493870
It's happening now dimwit. We're re-living the crisis of the third century. People are abandoning the old God, hyperinflation and moral degeneracy are rampant, the empire is overextended, and corruption goes unchecked at all levels of government. In five hundred years we're going to be a self-engineered species that worships Science as utilitarian method and as religious experience. The scientismists will even co-opt the notion of manifest destiny. It's gonna be dark and I'm glad I won't get to see it. God willing, I'll be sharing in the beatific vision of my sweet Lord.

[Anonymous No.14495365]

A more accurate explanation is that society was socially engineered to accept it. And this is from the writings of those who planned it, not the conspiracy theories of their enemies.

[Anonymous No.14495368]

Reminder that homosexuality flourished at the growth and apex of Greek antiquity and became stigmatised during its decline.

[Anonymous No.14495380]

>>14495368
>plain marble buildings and rags for clothes? AWESOME

[Anonymous No.14495383]

>>14493515
This
Op clearly didn't start with the Greeks

[Anonymous No.14495391]

>>14493056
homosexuality was called homophilia up until somewhere in the mid 20th century to my understanding. It was considered essentially a fetish as >>14493454
pointed out.

[Anonymous No.14495477]

>>14495391
Sexual distinctions through the ages.

Greco-Roman antiquity:
>active/passive
For a free Roman male, whether one had sex with men or women was relatively inconsequential, what mattered was whether or not one played the active or passive role in copulation. Fucking men didn’t constitute a threat to one’s masculinity (and even bolstered it), but being fucked by them implied effeminacy. That said, it was poor taste for a man to steal the dignity of a free Roman boy by having sex with him: unlike Greek pederasty, which was considered educative and edifying, in Rome it was considered dehumanising and was practiced mainly upon slaves. Ovid is quoted as saying that he preferred sex with women to sex with boys since the pleasure was more mutual.

Medieval Christianity:
>sodomite
The category of sodomite included anyone who had deviant sex, including heterosexual men and women who practiced fellatio. Although texts like Lanval imply a conception of exclusive homosexuality (contra certain social constructionists suggestions) homosexual sodomy was considered a sin everyone needed to be on guard against.

[eris !!L/ZXSJdFH9p No.14495489]

Nero married two dudes, and homosexuality was pretty well tolerated in much of Roman history, although men on the receiving end were considered bitches(which they are.) Although legally the civil law of Rome only recognized marriage between a man and a woman.

Constantius II totally outlawed it, and made it a death penalty offense, God be praised.

[Anonymous No.14495490]

>>14493056
Homosexuality has been absorbed for capital’s own ends. What was once a critique of heterosexuality is now a metered and measured commodity of sexuality which, like most other commodities, is pursued for its social and economic value rather than out of desires for spiritual exploration.

There is no gay gene, homosexuality is bought and paid for just like any other lifestyle under capitalism.

[Anonymous No.14495640]

Fucking boi-pussy was expected of you in Medieval Persian, and still is in Afghanistan

[Anonymous No.14495678]

>>14493515
>>14495383
Neither did you.
>we might forcibly effect one of two things in this matter of sex-relations,—either that no one should venture to touch any of the noble and freeborn save his own wedded wife, nor sow any unholy and bastard seed in fornication, nor any unnatural and barren seed in sodomy,—or else we should entirely abolish love for males, and in regard to that for women, if we enact a law that any man who has intercourse with any women save those who have been brought to his house under the sanction of Heaven and holy marriage, whether purchased or otherwise acquired, if detected in such intercourse by any man or woman, shall be disqualified from any civic commendation, as being really an alien

[Anonymous No.14495680]

>>14493515
>dicklets get the dickings

[Anonymous No.14495686]

I just want to know what makes gay people and why its a "good" thing, there is no gay gene or genes or combination that we know of and the natural argument is week. But well never be told or research for this will never be funded

[Anonymous No.14495725]

>>14495678
You realise Plato's Laws is prescriptive rather than descriptive.

[Anonymous No.14495729]

the rise of homosexuality is purely due to the fall of christianity, and nothing else. traditional pagan cultures, obvious matriarchal societies, and even eastern societies all had instances of homosexuality, transgenderism, eunuchs. we're just going back to normal

[Anonymous No.14495735]

he's got nice legs to be fair

[Anonymous No.14495736]

>>14495678
Read Symposium

[Anonymous No.14495739]

>>14495686
Anon, you might want to check again. There was a study only this summer that showed that genes account for only around 20% (I think) of homosexuals.

[Anonymous No.14495782]

>>14495739
>There was a study
I guess that's decided then.

[Anonymous No.14495809]

The origins of homosexuality don't really matter. Even if it's not genetic, it's still a phenomena that has occurred throughout the history regardless what the culture says about it.

The question to ask is why is there a such distaste for homosexuality. The Christian argument against homosexuality is incredibly weak when you consider that there's next to no historical validity for Christianity.

[Anonymous No.14495824]

>>14495809
in every instance of homosexuality in history its was looked down upon, starting from romans all the way to persians

[Anonymous No.14495840]

>>14495824
wrong - venerated in greece

[Anonymous No.14495843]

>>14495809
Why are you hyper focused on christians about it? It has been generally frowned upon in cultures all across the world pre and post christian. There isnt really validity to gayness existing either you know if we just take it as something that "just is"

[Anonymous No.14495857]

>>14495840
Only if you were doing the fucking, the bottom was usually stigmatized. And were not positive of what commoners thought of the act all together.

[Anonymous No.14495858]

>>14495857
>commoners
Huh? Why are you using feudal terms in a post about classical Greek society? You're not some kind of pseud are you?

[Anonymous No.14495861]

Why is this board filled with disgruntled hausfrauen?

[Anonymous No.14495864]

>>14495857
>Only if you were doing the fucking, the bottom was usually stigmatized
you're thinking of rome
>commoners
you mean slaves? irrelevant.................... ;)

[Anonymous No.14495869]

>>14495824
Wrong, there are many remote tribes that didn't care about homosexuality. Homophobia is learned, not innate.

>>14495843
It was just one example, and "generally" doesn't mean all. It's not an innate thing to dislike homosexuality. It's a social and learned behavior.

As long people perform homosexual actions, it is valid. Origins of homosexuality is just autistic ontological questions that only scholars should care about.

[Anonymous No.14495876]

>>14495869
Homosexuality is learned, not innate.

[Anonymous No.14495880]

>>14495678
>comedies, tragedies, poems, classical histories, political writings, philosophical dialogues, all depict homosexual relations
>statues, pottery depict homosexual relations
>homosexual relations feature commonly in mythology
>plato, the author you quote, has countless dialogues where socrates and other characters openly lust after boys
>countless roman commentators remark about how gay the greeks are
>sparta's ban on homosexual relations considered novel among the city-states
>the very page you post mentions the prevalence of homosexuality is crete
>b-b-but, plato's ideal constitution (well known to be modeled after sparta) doesn't allow homosexuality!
AHAHAHAHAHAHA you /pol/tards really are something else.

[Anonymous No.14495881]

>>14495869
Yes as being gay is likely a social and learned behavior

[Anonymous No.14495882]

>>14495876
The leading theories about ontology of homosexuality says that you're wrong.

[Anonymous No.14495883]

>>14495857
>And were not positive of what commoners thought of the act all together.

[Anonymous No.14495885]

>>14495882
>theories
>wrong
Oof

[Anonymous No.14495892]

>>14495380
snnnnniiiiiiffffffffffff...oh yes my dear....sssnnnnnnnnnnnniiiiiiiiffffffff....quite pungent indeed...is that....dare I say....sssssssnniff...eggs I smell?......sniff sniff....hmmm...yes...quite so my darling....sniff....quite pungent eggs yes very much so .....ssssssssssssssnnnnnnnnnnnnnnniiiiiiiffffff....ah yes...and also....a hint of....sniff....cheese.....quite wet my dear....sniff...but of yes...this will do nicely....sniff.....please my dear....another if you please....nice a big now....
BBBBBBRRRRRRRAAAAAAAPPPPPPPFFFFFFFFLLLLLLLLLPPPPPPPPPFFFFFF
Oh yes...very good!....very sloppy and wet my dear....hmmmmm...is that a drop of nugget I see on the rim?...hmmmm.....let me.....let me just have a little taste before the sniff my darling.......hmmmmm....hmm..yes....that is a delicate bit of chocolate my dear....ah yes....let me guess...curry for dinner?....oh quite right I am....aren't I?....ok....time for sniff.....sssssnnnnnnniiiiiiiiffffffff.....hmmm...hhhmmmmm I see...yes....yes indeed as well curry......hmmm....that fragrance is quite noticeable....yes.....onion and garlic chutney I take it my dear?.....hmmmmm....yes quite.....
BBBBBBRRRRRRRRPPPPPPFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFTTTTTTTTTTT
Oh I was not expecting that…that little gust my dear….you caught me off guard…yes…so gentle it was though…hmmmm…let me taste this little one…just one small sniff…..sniff…ah….ssssssnnnnnniiiiiffffffffffff…and yet…so strong…yes…the odor….sniff sniff…hmmm….is that….sniff….hmmm….I can almost taste it my dear…..yes….just…sniff….a little whiff more if you please…..ssssssnnnnnniiiiiffffffffff…ah yes I have it now….yes quite….hhhhmmmm…delectable my dear…..quite exquisite yes…..I dare say…sniff….the most pungent one yet my dear….ssssnnnnniiiifffffffffffffffffffffff….yes….

[Anonymous No.14495895]

>>14495885
Some theories are more right than other theories. Homosexuality is most likely to be a phenomena that have many different causes varying from genetics, hormones, and learned behavior.

What you're doing is ignoring all of the biological causes for homosexuality and only focus on social homosexuality. How is this a charitable argument against homosexuality?

[Anonymous No.14495896]

>>14495880
The greeks were wrong.

[Anonymous No.14495903]

>>14495895
link me the studies pls

[Anonymous No.14495907]

>>14495896
>the most /lit/ civilization was wrong
begone poltard

[Anonymous No.14495909]

>>14495895
If people are mostly socialized into being gay when they wouldnt be so "innately" why is that good?

[Anonymous No.14495910]

>Somehow, the poofters returned

[Anonymous No.14495915]

>>14495907
I do enjoy how they get so set on one idea (man love = bad) and then go around and around trying to fit facts into a poor argument about it, then just give up and deem the original subject bad or wrong.

Also reminder that fucking your bros is peak >>>/fitlit/

[Anonymous No.14495918]

>>14495907
>muh poltard
kys bourgeois scum

[Anonymous No.14495919]

>>14493056
Imagine having to take orders from that. Your superiors should inspire confidence and mental stability.

[Anonymous No.14495923]

>>14495909
Stop with the naturalistic fallacy. If you left a baby in the woods it would be eaten by wolves, yet you claim that being alive and not wolf food is somehow not pure evil?

[Anonymous No.14495925]

>>14495919
>having superiors
Never gonna make it

[Anonymous No.14495940]

>>14493056
Humans are a lot like ants. Our social psychology is like a cross of violent, horny, dominance-obsessed chimpanzees and ants. For much of history there was an unrelenting imperative to maintain high rates of reproduction to replace the members of the tribe/collective felled by pestilence, war, predation, the elements, etc. In such cases homosexuality is not only rarer, but is stigmatized. Homosexual behavior is "having your cake and eating it too", having all the pleasures of sex without the socially productive aspect.

Homosexuality then actually correlates with an advanced level of culture and economic security. It means people aren't dying faster than they are being born.

The reason why so many religions are against it, and why religion today is one of the main vessels of homophobia, is because religion functions to preserve and replicate the values of the past and of a different set of social conditions.

[Anonymous No.14495945]

>>14495925
>not understanding how the military works

[Anonymous No.14495946]

>>14495903
https://geneticsexbehavior.info/what-we-found/
>Using genetic data, we found evidence that sexual behavior is a highly complex trait and that there is not a single dimension of sexuality.

Ontology of homosexuality is a really boring subhject, but feel free to look into it.

[Anonymous No.14495949]

>>14495945
I think you might be braindamaged bro.

[Anonymous No.14495964]

>>14495949
Literally everyone in the military reports to someone above them in the hierarchy. Even four star generals report to the president.
>braindamaged
Stop projecting.

[Anonymous No.14495974]

>>14495964
Yes, but not everyone has to be in the military you dunce. The guy is taking the piss out of people in the military.

[Anonymous No.14495975]

>>14495940
No wonder then that shithole countries also tend to be more homophobic. Huh.

[Anonymous No.14495978]

>>14495946
Just makes sexuality sound like a meme to not be taken seriously. Ill take fags word for it that theyre truly gay but eh, I guess it works vice versa for straights too

[Anonymous No.14495984]

>>14495975
Yeah but then non shitholes dont reproduce fast enough so you have to import them

[Anonymous No.14496048]

>>14493947
You don't think a collapse will happens before that?

[Anonymous No.14496129]

>>14495809
>no historic validity
http://www.peterkreeft.com/topics-more/resurrection-evidence.htm

[Anonymous No.14496157]

>>14493056
Why are burgers so disgusting?

[Anonymous No.14496170]

>>14495477
Isn’t the active/passive concept of eros still prevalent in the Middle East and China?

[Anonymous No.14496189]

>>14496129
Literally only Christians believe in Jesus resurrection seriously. There are many theological arguments and secular arguments against validity of Jesus resurrection.

[Anonymous No.14496221]

Not a homophobe just dont like em

[Anonymous No.14496231]

>>14493056
The Book of Leviticus. Also the Epistle to the Romans.
Note that homosexuality is inherently narcissistic in form.

[Anonymous No.14496257]

>>14495880
It's clearly shown in the previous dialogues that greek homosexuality is basically paedophilia, restricted to the aristocracy of the Hellas. In the Symposium the abusive relation is explicited, demonstrating that faggotry is more of a dominance issue than love one. In Charmides he is melting for a fuckin teenager.

[Anonymous No.14496270]

>>14495736
>>14495678
This is the last Plato dialogue, unfinished because of his death. He's bssed & redpilled in his late dialogues.

[Anonymous No.14496318]

>>14496257
In Symposium Alcibiades is melting for Socrates, so it evens out. Not that you're wrong

[Anonymous No.14496371]

>>14496189
>only Christians believe in Christianity
Yeah obviously. The point is they're right.

[Anonymous No.14496590]

>>14495782
Don't complain about being shown no research if you're just going to ignore that there is in fact research taking place, the findings of which is available to the public

[Anonymous No.14496988]

>>14495975
Such a comment betrays your eurocentric and western imperialist outlook, bigot.

[Anonymous No.14497009]

>>14495477
>That said, it was poor taste for a man to steal the dignity of a free Roman boy by having sex with him: unlike Greek pederasty, which was considered educative and edifying, in Rome it was considered dehumanising and was practiced mainly upon slaves.
No the Greeks had the same distinction. It's what hubris is. The boy would be convicted and barred from citizenship. What was allowed was mutual masturbation, but actually sticking anything in anyone's pooper was seen as punishment. Hence the Greek habit of radishing people by court order.

[Anonymous No.14497096]

>>14495729
Normal is savage. We shouldn't go back to savage.

[Anonymous No.14497120]

>>14493056
>"We have to dilate in order to maintain credibility on the international stage."
ftfy

[Anonymous No.14497149]

Pro-gay sentiment in the West, especially in the US, is more of a political sentiment, an outgrowth of anti-racism, rather than decadence, since the trend has been claiming moral superiority by accusing Christians of insufficient care for the outsider/victim and essentially being Hitler. The Holocaust is the cause of this change in our value system.

[eris !!L/ZXSJdFH9p No.14497352]

>>14496189
Wow, you mean the group of people for whom a story is one of the basic foundations of their faith believe in that thing, whilst non-believers don't??? Holy fuck, stop the fucking presses.

[Anonymous No.14497565]

>>14497149
Wrong. This sentiment is seen in early suffrage and antislavery movements. It predates the Holocaust. It’s because of markets.

[Anonymous No.14497626]

>>14493056
Because homosexuality is petit-bourgeois individualism and never existed beforehand. Read Foucault. Do you really think that homos back then had time to club and date men? Nah, they had families and might've sucked dick on the side but the entire context for homosexuality (as we know it) is modern, made possible by modernity.

[Anonymous No.14498242]

While living the Greek lifestyle you have to remember women are strictly for reproduction, young boys are for pleasure.

[Anonymous No.14498294]

>every country in the world would lose a war against those two
>it wouldn't even be close, they'd get annihilated
Can't work out how based this makes America. Shit, we can beat you with some trannies in charge

[Anonymous No.14498345]

>>14497626
I thought the typical Western family arrangement was a product of capitalist, bourgeois society which developed as a means of controlling and passing down property. Now you're telling me that homosexuality is also bourgeois. Which one is it?

[Anonymous No.14498360]

>>14493515
god i wish that were me

[Anonymous No.14498369]

>>14497565
I wasn't aware of political gay activism as more than a marginal force during the abolitionist/suffrage movements. Furthermore, I don't see how markets cause political sexuality outside of a society that's already accepted a Western worldview.

[Anonymous No.14498370]

>>14495383
you clearly didn't. that's pleb culture, patricians and elitists like plato HATED that.
>>14495678
based

[Anonymous No.14498372]

>>14495368
It was stigmatized by Plato and any worthwhile philosopher that followed in his tracks.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE No.14498562]

>>14493056
Proletarian Humanism by Maxim Gorky

[Anonymous No.14498619]

>>14498370
>that's pleb culture, patricians
Using terms from Roman civilization on the Greeks huh?
>plato HATED that.
>>14498372
>It was stigmatized by Plato
As far as one can easily put words in dear Plato's mouth, no he didn't seem to.

PPPSSSSSEEEEEUUUUUUDDDDSSSSS

[Anonymous No.14498625]

>>14493056
>Gays can't be good solidier

[Anonymous No.14498647]

>>14498625
The Spartans weren't homos. The Sacred Band of Thebes were though.

[Anonymous No.14498657]

>>14498370
I realized Greeks were literal fags by reading Plato. Man on man romance was featured in his works

[Anonymous No.14498671]

>>14495736
Did the point of the dialogue fly over your head?

[Anonymous No.14498683]

>>14498657
Source it, faggot

[Anonymous No.14498693]

>>14498671
Deep down you want to fuck your bros.

[Anonymous No.14498695]

>>14495380
what we see now as plain marble wasn't plain at the time. buildings were painted but the rudimentary paint has long since disappeared. sometimes fragments of colours are found on statues etc

[Anonymous No.14498703]

>>14495869
Monogamy, trial by jury, private property, codified laws, and basically every practice that separates man from beast is learned, not innate.

[Anonymous No.14499464]

>>14498683
charmidies opens with socrates asking who the most beautiful youths are
>You mustn’t judge by me, my friend. I’m a broken yardstick as far as handsome people are concerned, because practically everyone of that age strikes me as beautiful. But even so, at the moment Charmides came in he seemed to me to be amazing in stature and appearance, and everyone there looked to me to be in love with him, they were so astonished and confused by his entrance, and many other lovers followed in his train. That men of my age should have been affected this way was natural enough, but I noticed that even the small boys fixed their eyes upon him and no one of them, not even the littlest, looked at anyone else, but all gazed at him as if he were a statue. And Chaerephon called to me and said, “Well, Socrates, what do you think of the young man? Hasn’t he a splendid face?”
>“Extraordinary,” I said.
>“But if he were willing to strip,” he said, “you would hardly notice his face, his body is so perfect.” ~ 154 c-d
euthydemus centres around ctesoppus trying to impress a boy he loves
>I give you my word that everyone who does not have this wisdom will wish to have it: first myself, then Clinias here, and, in addition to us, this fellow Ctesippus and these others, I said, pointing to the lovers of Clinias who were already grouped around us. This had come about because Ctesippus had taken a seat a long way from Clinias, and when Euthydemus leaned forward in talking to me, he apparently obscured Ctesippus’ view of Clinias, who was sitting between us. So Ctesippus, who wanted to look at his darling, as well as being interested in the discussion, sprang up first and stationed himself right in front of us. ~ 274 c
the very first lines of alcibiades I
>I was the first man to fall in love with you, son of Clinias, and now that the others have stopped pursuing you I suppose you’re wondering why I’m the only one who hasn’t given up—and also why, when the others pestered you with conversation, I never even spoke to you all these years. 103 a
in the dialogue lysis, where socrates is invited to a gymnasium
>“Well, then, won’t you please come in and see who’s here?”
>“First I’d like to hear what I’m coming in for—and the name of the bestlooking member.”
>“Each of us has a different opinion on who that is, Socrates.”
>“So tell me, Hippothales, who do you think it is?”
>He blushed at the question, so I said, “Aha! You don’t have to answer that, Hippothales, for me to tell whether you’re in love with any of these boys or not—I can see that you are not only in love but pretty far gone too." 204 b-c
symposium, plato's dialogue on love, centres almost exclusively around the love between men. i don't even need to quote this one.
plus, practically every dialogue is peppered with references to "lovers" (read: pederastic homosexual relationships). it's ridiculous that i even have to make this post. read a book.

[Anonymous No.14499646]

>>14499464
>i don't even need to quote this one
You should, because what you did quote was hardly convincing that faggotry was something widespread, commonly practiced, and accepted among general populace.

[Anonymous No.14499651]

>>14499464
>practically every dialogue is peppered with references to "lovers”
Is this really how the Greek word was translated? What’s the original used in the dialogues?

[Anonymous No.14499660]

>>14499464
>it's ridiculous that i even have to make this post
Well, you’ll need more than this to justify why it should be acceptable for society to promote faggotry as conducive and productive towards the well being of heterosexual society. So far, the odds are stacked against you in the fags go back to the closet once they lose their status as flavor of the month in political tools.

[Anonymous No.14499697]

>>14493870
So is abolishing personal hygiene the only way we can move forward?

[Anonymous No.14499758]

>>14495857
>And were not positive of what commoners thought of the act all together
OH NO NOT THE SLAVERINOS!!! NOT THE HELOTS!!!! NOT THE AKOLOUTHOSIOSOS!!! WHAT THE HECK ARE THEY GONNA THINK ABOUT THAT?

[Anonymous No.14499901]

>>14498345
These happened in progressive stages, nor are they mutually exclusive when it comes to capital. Breaking children away from their ancestral home so they can form their own familial economic units happened, then people became more and more atomized atomized by sex, race, gender, sexuality, etc. There is really no point for fags to save money for inheritance when they have no children, so they will just spend all of their money.

[Anonymous No.14499907]

>>14499901
You’re dumb

[Anonymous No.14499952]

>>14499901
based

[Anonymous No.14500030]

[Anonymous No.14500259]

>>14493454
>past people were also more aware of the finer things and didn't think like horny robots as we do now (obsession with sex/drug/socialmedia induced pleasure and oversimplified mechanical worldview)
reminder that the romans fucked an entire plant species out of existence

[Anonymous No.14500278]

>>14499464
based
Don't mind the illiterates

[Anonymous No.14500782]

>>14499646
>>14499651
>>14499660
>t-t-that d-doesn't count!
Fuck off you self hating, closeted homos.

[Anonymous No.14500959]

>>14495739
Link it.
>>14495809
Homosexuality is modernist identity nonsense. Homosex is its own thing and can occur all the time with no meaning or, in nature, fucking accidentally. The real question is why it matters at all. There have always been moral arguments against it, as much as there are moral arguments against anything, but it's unprecedented for it to be considered "love" or equal to heterosexual and reproductive relationships, which is where this sexuality nonsense goes.
>>14495840
When and where?
>>14495946
They found essentially nothing and that's why their conclusion is so shitty. Read the actual study. Hardly any different than the gay gene meme.

[Anonymous No.14500986]

>>14493056
Left-wing people exist to be ruthlessly, cruelly exploited. Homosexuality is merely another way to enable this.

[Anonymous No.14501136]

>>14500959
>it's unprecedented for it to be considered "love" or equal to heterosexual and reproductive relationships, which is where this sexuality nonsense goes
You’re conflating love with production. This is nothing but some Calvinist theological account of love. That being the case, then everything you have to say is predicated on nothing other than a prescriptive sentiment indoctrinated into you by some over eager religious diddler.

[Anonymous No.14501144]

>>14500959
Look through the fucking thread, everything has been talked about at least once you slow af bitch.

[Anonymous No.14501170]

>>14500959
>There have always been moral arguments against it, as much as there are moral arguments against anything, but it's unprecedented for it to be considered "love" or equal to heterosexual and reproductive relationships
Start with the Greeks

[Anonymous No.14501292]

FAGS

[Anonymous No.14501348]

>>14493515
Hot

[Anonymous No.14501354]

>>14501136
>You’re conflating love with production
No, not really. Love is just the most common argument I hear from gays to justify their relationship. Even if it's not their main argument they usually bring it up. I avoid bringing up love in general because it's difficult if not impossible to define and in most cases hasn't been the basis of marriage or relationships. It still isn't.
>>14501144
That article and study prove nothing. Fucking read it. I haven't seen anyone actually talk about the different periods of greek antiquity, which is centuries long, and I don't recall any specific time or instance where it was venerated. I hope you're not trying to compress all of greek antiquity, that'd be dumb and disingenuous.
>>14493515
This is a fake modeled after a scene showing heterosex. It's not even an amphora, it's a plate.

[Anonymous No.14501436]

The Japanese were mad gay up until the late Meiji era.

[Anonymous No.14501488]

>>14495736
t. Retard who can't read between the lines or interpret a fucking speech correctly to save his life.

[Anonymous No.14501495]

>>14501488
Either you haven't read it or you read it in english, where lover has no gender

[Anonymous No.14501515]

>>14499646
1800 come on now

[Anonymous No.14501682]

>>14501495
... I'm not talking about the gender of the term you midwit. It's obvious that the dialogue has the backdrop of homoerotic love, but that's not the point. Plato offers a veiled critique and uses eros as a force (ladder) towards philosophy. The ending scene between Alcibiades and Socrates proves the point when Socrates never makes any sexual advances of Alcibiades but rather attempts to bring him towards philosophy through eros. Never point to Plato as being somehow an advocate of homosexuality just because it appears in the dialogues; it contradicts his entire metaphysics. Read Timaeus to fix your mentally impaired takes.

[Anonymous No.14501988]

>>14495809
>Historical validity

[PUT TERRY BACK No.14502091]

>>14495869
>Homophobia
>phobia
top jej

[PUT TERRY BACK No.14502109]

>>14500782
project moar

[Anonymous No.14502847]

>>14498369
It wasn’t gay activism then—but the various “equality” movements all share the same core, that a natural hierarchy should lose its official enforcement.

[Anonymous No.14502855]

>>14502109
Where does Terry go?

[Anonymous No.14503108]

>>14501436
>that image

hahahahahah

[Anonymous No.14503680]

Anyone in this thread actually gay? Frustrating to read all these clinical back and forths disagreeing about what homosexuality even is, as if you can't trust the word of any of the millions of actual homos when they tell you they've just always been that way.

[Anonymous No.14503701]

>>14503680
Most people, certainly OP at any rate.

[Anonymous No.14503758]

>>14503680
how are you gay my dude, society conditions men and women to sexual preferences. ur a product of ur environment.

[Anonymous No.14503768]

>>14503680
>just always been that way.
What do 'always' and 'that way' mean?

[Anonymous No.14503811]

>>14503758
No, almost the entire premise of romantic and sexual attraction throughout history has been a focus on how it exists beyond one's ability to stop it. When you see a beautiful woman in public can you "choose" to not find her beautiful? Were you conditioned into finding her beautiful beyond your control somehow and men loving women has no biological origin?

I literally cannot remember a heterosexual impulse at any point in my life. As early as I can remember I've just been interested in other males, its not complicated. I like the way they smell and it feels right to be around them. I experienced no trauma growing up. My dad ignored me but he ignored my brothers too and they're both straight.

[Anonymous No.14503863]

>>14503811
>Were you conditioned into finding her beautiful
In a way he was. Grow up in Afghanistan and you will find pubescent boys sexy af and prefer them to women. All the evidence we have suggest sexuality is shaped by our circumstances rather than being innate. I wasn't biologically programmed to fap to anime catgirls

[Anonymous No.14503892]

>>14503811
I grew up in the early 2000s. I cannot remember a single piece of media or culture I was exposed to that celebrated or encouraged homosexuality. This is why coming of age for myself and many homosexuals is characteristically confusing. I can't speak for every human but personally I was not "conditioned" into enjoying sex with men and I highly doubt thats possible.

One can make whatever arguments they want about homosexuality after they understand what it is, thats cool. Its just annoying to see so many people actually running with the premise that a progressive social agenda could actually condition a man into seeking out sex with men exclusively his entire life and actually marry a man all the while ignoring his heterosexuality. This viewpoint is purely based on being contrarian to modern progressiveness. Homosexuality is a biological mode and not a fucking social or political issue.

[Anonymous No.14503934]

>>14503892
Prove it bro, fyi there isnt much proof of heterosexuality as a biological mode either

[Anonymous No.14503946]

>>14503892
I think you are confusing a sort of Foucaldian analysis (sexuality appears to be constructed differently across time and cultures, we should investigate that) with the Mike Pence approach (librulls are making my son a cocksucker let's electrocute the gay away)
The biological approach doesn't explain eg medieval Persian sexuality - they can't have *all* been born that way

[Anonymous No.14503995]

>>14503934
I can't prove it, I guess you'll just have to trust an entire population of people's word on what they feel. Also why would heterosexuality not be a biological mode given the necessity of reproduction? Do you think instincts are something every animal has but just not humans?

>>14503946
You're right. I can't speak for everyone but I'm just saying I get annoyed when I'm reading lengthy arguments based on some fundamental idea that the world convinced me to like men and I see this often. And I've never met a homo who seemed to have chosen it or had a choice, but I'm sure they exist.