/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.14457074]

Got any books on why modern art is so fucking awful?

[Anonymous No.14457095]

>>14457074
can't remember the name of the book i read on it all being CIA funded because the soviet union claimed Americans couldn't into art

[Anonymous No.14457104]

let me guess, you like little baby butt cupid statues with a fountain in the penis you can drink from.

we get it... art should be practical

[Anonymous No.14457122]

>>14457074
The Painted Word, Tom Wolfe

[Anonymous No.14457141]

>>14457122
This is a funny book. Really you should read something about aesthetics, get over “good” and “bad”, if something moves you it moves you, if it moves someone else and not you...who cares?

[Anonymous No.14457144]

>>14457074
education in the huamnities isn't as rigorous as it once was so the production is low quality. Not to mention modern distractions such as smart phones, tv, internet, movies and music that you can consume over and over again without any effort.

A hundred years ago, Ezra Pound lamented how he wasted so much time listening to the radio instead reading or polishing his verse.

[Anonymous No.14457155]

>>14457095
That’s not why. CIA promoted American modern art because it showed the west was free thinking unlike communist countries that viewed modern art as subversive.

[Anonymous No.14457161]

>>14457074
Why don’t you like that painting?

[Anonymous No.14457184]

>>14457074
The chapter on art in Man and His Symbols is kind of insightful.

[Anonymous No.14457194]

Decline of the west

[Anonymous No.14457209]

>>14457194
sent from my iPhone

[Anonymous No.14457291]

That piece isn't modern. You probably don't know what modern art actually is, and you probably aren't going to read any of the suggestions here, you just wanted to make some dumbass thread to validate feelings you've barely thought about without actually having to analyze them any further by instead hearing reassurance.
Ulysses is modern art. Guernica is modern art. Starry Night is modern art. Fallingwater is modern art.

[Anonymous No.14457381]

>>14457291
You know what I mean, faggot

[Anonymous No.14457401]

>>14457141
Because we unironically live in a society and this hyperindividualist boomer mindset is why everything is fucked

[Anonymous No.14457405]

>>14457381
Yes I know exactly what you mean, and that's the very reason I'm attacking you. You don't actually like or respect art. If you did, you would have engaged with it enough to understand how the words used to describe it are defined.

[Anonymous No.14457443]

>>14457405
"Modern" as a word is colloquially used to mean "contemporary" you stupid fucking autist, if you tried this shit in real life I'd beat you to a pulp your nit-picking little bugman. I'd throw your down and I'd beat you and I'd tear off your clothes and I'd make your feel a real man. You wouldn't be able to do shit because you're a pencil-neck faggot and I'd turn you into my pretty little princess. You'd lust after the feel of my strong arms and broad chest pinning you down as my cock forces it's way into your puckered asshole while I bite down on the nape of your neck like a Neapolitan Mastiff dominating his bitch in heat. You would SUBMIT, so don't you fucking try this gay semantic shit on my board ever again.

[Anonymous No.14457451]

>>14457443
Gay

[Anonymous No.14457502]

>>14457451
Yeah it would be gay as fuck, absolutely disgusting and frankly if I saw a similar post made by a different poster my reaction would be the same. But salmon don't swim up river out of joy, but out of instinct. I don't want to fuck a man, it's foul and sinful and degenerate, but it is simply nature. He deserves to be dominated by a superior being, it's his destiny and he would enjoy it. Hiss at me with disgust, I understand and I won't hold it against you but know that I'm doing it for you and for everyone else out there who believes in higher ideals.

[Anonymous No.14457510]

>>14457502
I think you may slightly want to fuck a man lol. it's ok giraffes and lions do it too

[Anonymous No.14457519]

>>14457510
Nah if you think every man in this world does what he does out of desire and not necessity then you've got some growing up to do.

[Anonymous No.14457530]

>>14457519
>I have to fuck men for the greater good even though it's a sin and im not gay
I mean you're practically a caricature of a self-hating gay. you're right about me though, im an immature piece of shit

[Anonymous No.14457557]

>>14457530
Nobody ever said anything about fucking men, faggot, that's gay as fuck. I'd never fuck men, just that poster in particular.

[Anonymous No.14457615]

>>14457074
okay but why did you post a good-looking painting?
Also I don't know about your question, but I'm sure that there are books that explain how retarded people stuck in the past like you need healthcare because they are mentally disabled

[Anonymous No.14457635]

>>14457401
I see where you're coming from but it's more live and let live than hyperindividualist

[Anonymous No.14457636]

>>14457443
What the fuck has this place done to you

[Anonymous No.14457650]

>>14457381
An arbitrary compendium of things you don't like that were made more or less recently?

[Anonymous No.14457652]

>>14457557
Gay

[Anonymous No.14457653]

>>14457635
Live and let live is hyperindividualism.

[Anonymous No.14457663]

>>14457443
Hahahaha I genuinely audibly lel'd

This is modern art. Post-post-ironic

[Anonymous No.14457684]

>>14457636
True creativity is necessarily vulgar, you dumb nigger. Go poo-poo your faggy little modern sensibilities over in Disney Land with you thin-fit black jeans and your flannel. "Coca-cola! Amazon! Nike!" Nobody cares.

>>14457652
>Yeah it would be gay as fuck, absolutely disgusting and frankly if I saw a similar post made by a different poster my reaction would be the same. But salmon don't swim up river out of joy, but out of instinct. I don't want to fuck a man, it's foul and sinful and degenerate, but it is simply nature. He deserves to be dominated by a superior being, it's his destiny and he would enjoy it. Hiss at me with disgust, I understand and I won't hold it against you but know that I'm doing it for you and for everyone else out there who believes in higher ideals.

[Anonymous No.14457701]

>>14457074
crisis of our age - sorokin
in the shadow of tomorrow - huizinga
the crisis of the modern world - guenon

any book about the modern crisis, in fact. i recommend especially sorokin's. it's from start to finish about why art became degenerate

[Anonymous No.14457706]

>>14457684
You literally HAVE to fuck men. Listen to yourself and accept your gayness

[Anonymous No.14457716]

>>14457706
Name 2 men I've said I'll fuck. I'm waiting.

[Anonymous No.14457723]

>>14457653
How so? And what distinguishes hyperindividualism from individualism?

[Anonymous No.14457725]

>>14457074
mein kampf

[Anonymous No.14457728]

>>14457716
Direct that question to the faggot voice in your head and you'll get far more than 2

[Anonymous No.14457729]

>>14457443
thank god for constitutional carry :)

[Anonymous No.14457730]

>>14457716
1. Me
2. The other poster who started engaging with you when you got all gay and I stopped replying

[Anonymous No.14457732]

>>14457684
You are either a full-grown retard or a somewhat precocious child figuring things out. Good luck either way

[Anonymous No.14457738]

>>14457209
Kek

[Anonymous No.14457748]

>>14457443
Fag

[Anonymous No.14457750]

>>14457074
The Case Against Wagner- Nietzsche
The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction- Walter Benjamin
Dialectic of the Enlightenment- Adorno/Horkheimer
End of Art- Arthur Danto
The Conspiracy of Art- Baudrillard

[Anonymous No.14457759]

>>14457443
>"Modern" as a word is colloquially used to mean "contemporary" you stupid fucking autist

Only by idiots like you

[Anonymous No.14457770]

>>14457519
Gay again

[Anonymous No.14457778]

>>14457557
You’re the gayest poster I’ve ever read on this site. Flagrantly homo. >>14457653

[Anonymous No.14457784]

>>14457653
You get to an age where your realize good and bad aren’t real. You shouldn’t care what other people like and they should t care what you like.

[Anonymous No.14457809]

>>14457730
Please quote where I ever said I'd make delicate, sensual love to any other poster except you. You'd play hard to get but then I'd wear you down and eventually you'd open your heart to me. We'd get a log cabin out in Montana or maybe Idaho, raise a few kids, and grow old together. It would be beautiful.

[Anonymous No.14457810]

>>14457443
BASED fuck pedants(literally)

[Anonymous No.14457827]

>>14457723
Nothing in the long run because nothing is static. If everyone adopted a "live and let live" approach to life we'd live in an ugly slum of a world.

>>14457784
That's an ugly worldview and everyone who believes it should be interned until they're made to believe something more beautiful.

[Anonymous No.14457930]

>>14457074
Art's aim is the imitation of life, if life is ugly then art should be too

[Anonymous No.14457936]

>>14457074
Read "The twilight of painting". It's expensive but it was written by one of last artists in america in any sort of painting tradition.

[Anonymous No.14457949]

>>14457161
not op but it looks like shit. And you're a fag for pretending there's even a possibility that it doesn't

[Anonymous No.14457951]

>>14457949
ok boomer

[Anonymous No.14457953]

>>14457951
>t. boomer assmad that nobody likes his 1960s cia splatter crap

[Anonymous No.14457998]

>>14457827
Emptying out terms like ugly and beautiful for your own vague rhetoric is some neo-fascism shit, that I assume a peep like you would want to avoid?

You're stabbing at neoliberalism, Randian thinking, etc right? Kudos if so, but you're going about it in a way that's dangerously near to what they're all about.

Opposition to tawdry neoliberal individualism doesn't need be groupthink. We are individual *and* social animals. They're not irreconcilable identities.

Live and let live -- that is minding your own goddamn business, not oppressing others for different beliefs -- is *obviously* not hyperindividualism.

The end of a truly group-orientated society would be emancipation of the individual from the various tyrannies of unchecked greed

A very dry, if forgivingly short, informative introduction to this reconciliation is Noam Chomsky's Anarchy

[Anonymous No.14458006]

>>14457998
By 'end' I mean like telos or final goal

[Anonymous No.14458023]

>>14457827
I find it beautiful THEFORE EVERYONE MUST!

>literally (you)

[Anonymous No.14458025]

>>14457155
Free thinking is subversive. Why would the CIA promote art that usually rallied against the status quo.

[Anonymous No.14458034]

>>14457949
Ok I’m a fag that likes it...now what?

[Anonymous No.14458046]

>>14457953
>thinking an 80s painting is 60s “splatter shit”

Wew lad I hope you’re not in highschool yet

[Anonymous No.14458058]

>>14458025
For exactly that reason

[Anonymous No.14458061]

>>14457998
>you sound neofascist
>here read Noam Chomsky
soijak.jpg

>>14458023
>beauty isn't objective

>>14458046
The 80s were the peak boomer decade...

[Anonymous No.14458073]

>>14458061

>beauty isn’t objective

Pro tip: it’s not

[Anonymous No.14458093]

>>14458073
It is, you know it is and you're sitting here trying to lie about it. Objectively disgusting.

[Anonymous No.14458109]

>>14458034
It looks like it was painted with a brush held between the painter's toes.

[Anonymous No.14458141]

>>14458109
Is that bad? Why?

[Anonymous No.14458148]

>>14457074
I bet you couldn't paint that.

[Anonymous No.14458150]

>>14458093
Good job destroying aesthetics by reducing it to politics. For you beauty is about upvoting and downvoting correctly, just like you were conditioned to do in the un-educational system.

[Anonymous No.14458156]

>>14457095
Modernism precedes American modernism.

[Anonymous No.14458164]

>>14458093
Grow up. Everything is subjective and nothing matters

[Anonymous No.14458170]

>>14457930
How could the same life produce goodness in one stage and badness in another.

[Anonymous No.14458175]

>>14457953
Name a greater man in the 50s.

[Anonymous No.14458187]

>>14458164
>Everything is subjective and nothing matters
"Nothing matters" is basically equivalent with "conflict isn't the foundation of reality." This triggers the war-worshipers.

[Anonymous No.14458209]

>inb4 a pleb posts some god awful firetruck meme 19th century shit as an example of good art

[Anonymous No.14458239]

photography was invented
fin

[Anonymous No.14458254]

>>14457998
Man I wonder if cultural debate and collaboration on aesthetic standards is good or not? I'm definitely not massively missing the point by trying to end such conversations with a "mind your own business" approach.
Get this- art is legitimized by the risk of it's nonrecognition by the viewer. Challenging myself to fit my experiences and intuitive judgements into the symbolic and the beautiful is only possible with my transmission at risk.
Contemporary art is actually amazing because it risks sooo much by ignoring the forms of convention and still manages to be so expressive.

[Anonymous No.14458276]

>>14458150
What the fuck are you even talking about you blathering retard this has nothing to do with anything I've said at all.

>>14458164
If nothing matters why make the post? Trying to convince other people that nothing matters is a self-defeating argument.

>>14458175
What do the 50s have to do with this?

[Anonymous No.14458290]

>>14458276
>What
>Why
>What

Last refuge of a faggot.

[Anonymous No.14458301]

>>14457141
If we don't think in terms of good and bad then the bad will dominate

[Anonymous No.14458339]

>>14457074
post a jean Michelle basquiate painting
says modern art is terrible
op is retarded

[Anonymous No.14458341]

>>14458290
>ask two separate people 2 separate question
>"HURRRR DURRRR I LOST THE ARGUMENT SO NOW IM GONNA CALL YOU A FAGGOT DURRRR IM STOOPID HURRRR DUURRRR"
great post nigger, I'll take the fact that you can't actually respond to me as an admission of you error :^)

[Anonymous No.14458353]

>>14458341
Who? Why?

[Anonymous No.14458370]

>>14458353
I haven't used either of those in any of my posts you dumb nigger. I know that people who think everything is subjective are usually kind of dim but you're really fucking stupid.

[Anonymous No.14458459]

>>14457701
Thank you very much

[Anonymous No.14458511]

>>14458370
How?

[Anonymous No.14459572]

>>14457074
>complains about awful modern art
>posts based Basquiat

Don't you think there are enough elaborate paintings of parks and shiet?

[Anonymous No.14459579]

>>14457291
joyce blows
modernism sucks

[Anonymous No.14459587]

The latest A Tribe Called Quest album has some sweet Basquiatesque art on it

[Anonymous No.14459589]

This one is fucking Sweet

[Anonymous No.14459601]

>>14457443
I may have enjoyed this post when I was 17. I’ll give you that.

[Anonymous No.14459608]

Such a tortured soul, what a creative force. Of course pasty middle class channers dislike it.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.14459614]

>>14457074
At first; critique of the madness of capitalism
At last; seemingly sold out, used to funnel money, trash.
But art isn’t dead, it only wears a mask. Not unlike all of you.

[Anonymous No.14459616]

>>14457144
>Ezra Pound
Total trash

[Anonymous No.14459628]

There was no more need for traditional art when photography was invented. "Modern art" was the natural development. Some is excellent, some is emperors new clothes trash.

Don't judge an entire experimental movement by its worst examples.

[Anonymous No.14459630]

>>14457291
Architecture is not art.

[Anonymous No.14459631]

>>14457443

You often fantasize about writing a book while living in the woods hunting and fishing?

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.14459636]

>>14459630
Of course it is!

[Anonymous No.14459638]

>>14459608
He was an industry plant created for political reasons and you know it.

>>14457074
Art became a vessel for theory instead of beauty.

>inb4 hurr durr i bet you only like realistic paintings from the romantic era

Fuck off.

[Anonymous No.14459639]

>>14457074
that painting is cool though

[Anonymous No.14459641]

>>14459628
' A history of pictures' provides some good information on the relationship between and development of photography, naturalism, optics, paintings, etc along these lines. Strongly recommend

[Anonymous No.14459667]

>>14459638
>He was an industry plant created for political reasons and you know it.

elaborate?

[Anonymous No.14459732]

Have you ever considered using your little burger brain to read a book about art?

[Anonymous No.14459818]

>>14458170
Modernism

[Anonymous No.14459930]

>>14457291
No one cares about that. Modern is a loose synonym of contemporary, extending in the past up to the last perceived revolution in the domain.
Naming a specific period 'modern' is retarded. For a long while this was used to denote the 17th-18ty centuries.

[Anonymous No.14460001]

Daily reminder that people who complain about the degeneration of art have never read a book on aesthetics, art history or art criticism. Daily reminder that people who complain about art degeneracy are about on the same intellectual level of pop music listeners who complain about classical music being "too long", i.e. children throwing a tantrum over something that they don't immediately understand because they can't immediately understand it. Daily reminder that people that invoke "beauty" are praising the immediate reaction as superior to the learned aesthetic understanding: if they had their way the art that they deem "beautiful" could never have been made. Daily reminder that they often conflate the terms "beauty", "Aesthetic", and "sublime". Daily reminder that these people think that photorealism is a good thing.
Daily reminder that in spite of all the talk of "correct aesthetic standards" they have never touched a book written by a formalist art critic, nor do they know that formalism is an actual thing. Daily reminder that the "muh degenerate" crowd ignores all the sociocultural situations under which all the different currents of modern art have been born: they ask the artist and the viewer to be purposefully ignorant of history and historically deaf, despite the fact that the art that they champion as standard of aesthetic beauty has never been historically deaf (i.e. the renaissance, romanticism). Daily reminder that these people have probably never been to Rome, Venice or Paris. Daily reminder that these people often complain about eroticism being present in art despite the fact that eroticism has been present in art since the Greeks (since prehistoric times, to be more precise).
Daily reminder that if these people had their way we would never have had all the Van Goghs, all the Otto Dixs, the Renoirs, the Modiglianis, the Picassos, the Kandinskys, the Matisses, the Monets, the Cezannes, the Klimts and the Joyces, the Rimbauds, the Eliots of the world: these artists that we correctly understand as being geniuses would have been classified as "degenerate" and thrown into a trash bin. Daily reminder that the most representative spokesman of this crowd of resentful minus habens is someone who thinks Metallica is good music. And, last but not least, daily reminder that there are even today a ton of artists who reject the avant-garde of the last century in order to paint in a more traditional or realistic way (there is, in fact, a whole website dedicated to this kind of stuff: artrenewal.com) but the "muh degeneration" crowd doesn't know about them because they don't actually care about art.

[Anonymous No.14460083]

>>14460001
You say absolutely nothing except trash an imaginary strawman of what you consider a plebeian that can't understand our elevated tastes. Only us, the ascended, have tongues so delicate that we can appreciate the divine aftertaste of shit.
Only us can revel in the fine art of putting "quotes" around words to deride other opinions.
We are enlightened by our own intelligence. We are intellectually superior. We even have a piece of paper saying it.

[Anonymous No.14460091]

>>14460083
a bloo bloo

[Anonymous No.14460165]

>>14460001
Cope harder, I'm an artifex myself. Instead of the supra human ideals, art degenerated to the lowest of the infra human depiction of sentiments and instincts, as anything else in today's culture. You should probably know impressionism was a revolt against modern art (yes, the realistic portrayal of reality of post Renaissance), but ended up resorting to the same empirical senses.

As for contemporary art, it's bound to publicity and trend. It's lower than modern while being a false revolt against the modern.

Burn modern art
Burn contemporary art
But more importantly, burn the museums
And burn all paintings with a signature

[Anonymous No.14460171]

>>14459628
Photography is what ended painterly abstraction, not what started it.

[Anonymous No.14460177]

>>14459638
Beauty is a theory, and theory became the value of art after it supplanted material value in the Renaissance.

[Anonymous No.14460186]

>>14460165
>realistic portrayal of reality

[Anonymous No.14460192]

>>14460001
Art renewal is trash. They idealize the French academic painters, which were totally modern but painted realism.

Anyway you seen to of art as a bourgeois man does. As a product to consume, just like your garbage classical music. Do you go to museums too while pretending that you are appreciating art? You know nothing about art. You are just a hipster with the same mentality of a bourgeois. Art is beyond that and it's definitely not in the museums.

Classical music is modern shit.

[Anonymous No.14460199]

>>14460192
lol, what a retarded commie
stick to your japanese cartoons

[Anonymous No.14460206]

>>14460186
Yes. Post Renaissance modern art, with genre art (landscape, portraits) aimed at the realistic portrayal of reality, while impressionists aimed at less sensuous but still sentimental portrayal of reality.

Art is Spirit over Psyche, not Pscyhe and Body over Spirit.

[Anonymous No.14460221]

>>14460199
I'm exactly the opposite of a commie or socialist, mate. As a true conservatist, reactionary, antimodernist, and antidemocratic, I oppose all sorts of bourgeoisie mentality.

I recognize bits of what you say as truth, but it also applies to you. If you think museums are a deposit of high art never reply to my posts again and I want nothing to do with you. Same if you think baroque and classical music are high art.

[Anonymous No.14460228]

>>14460165
>Burn the museums
A real futurist right here!

[Anonymous No.14460238]

>>14460221
>I'm exactly the opposite of a commie or socialist, mate. As a true conservatist, reactionary, antimodernist, and antidemocratic, I oppose all sorts of bourgeoisie mentality.
Don't forget your parents

[Anonymous No.14460257]

>>14460221
>if you think baroque and classical music are high art.
This, I listen only to romantic music.

To be honest, I'd be interested to learn what you consider high art. But I know I will be extremely disappointing.

[Anonymous No.14460258]

>>14460221
>Bach and Rameau aren't high art
Dilate you fucking tranny

[Anonymous No.14460261]

>>14460258
>picks rameau
I'd unironically tip my fedora to you, if I had one

[Anonymous No.14460272]

>>14460257
Anything pre-modernity, before the renaissance, is high art. Times when art was anonymous. The renaissance was the transition from high art to low art.

Romantism is the lowest point of classical music.

[Anonymous No.14460275]

>>14457750
Can I understand these if I am a dummy in philosophy ?

[Anonymous No.14460278]

>>14457074
‘On the Jews and their Lies’ by Martin Luther, ‘My Struggle’ by Adolphus Hitler, ‘The International Jew’ by Henry Ford, ‘On the Jewish Question’ by Karl Marx, ‘Thus Spoke Zarathustra’ by Friedrich Nietzsche and ‘The Culture of Critique’ series by Kevin MacDonald among many others.

[Anonymous No.14460281]

>>14457443
I enjoyed the mastiff part, good visual imagery

[Anonymous No.14460282]

>>14457443
What are you fuckin’ gay?

[Anonymous No.14460285]

>>14457443
Based and gaypilled

[Anonymous No.14460297]

>>14460272
Not a single example... what a coward.

[Anonymous No.14460303]

Only nazi Propaganda posters are art

[Anonymous No.14460304]

>>14460001
You're right, but what confuses me is that we've had perfectly clear and lucid explanations of this stuff for ages, but it's almost never brought up.

You have perfectly lucid essays explaining what, to these particular people, is capable of presenting to them the deepest beauty that they experience, and why they believe this is so:

http://www.denisdutton.com/bell.htm
https://www.artrenewal.org/Article/Title/the-philosophy-of-arc

For the particular schools of art you talk about, it is clear that to them beauty is primary, and they are perplexed as to why anyone would care about art for any other reason. But at the same time, the sources of beauty that appeal to the mare diametrically opposed,
Bell responding to form alone, and Ross to representation.

[Anonymous No.14460315]

>>14460303
In a meta way yes, its BASED performance art

[Anonymous No.14460319]

>>14457074
the reason is literally money laundering, art is hard to objectively judge, and because of that hard to set a price to, so people draw literal weird shit and use it to sell shady stuff for millions, making the public think that's how much the art costs
source: it was revealed to me in a dream

[Anonymous No.14460322]

>>14460001
>they have never touched a book written by a formalist art critic,
imagine believing art is in the museums and that art critics have any power over anything. Truly the bourgeois mentality at its peak.

[Anonymous No.14460326]

>>14460228
i'm the inverse of a futurist who also advocates for the burning of museums and all signed paintings

[Anonymous No.14460329]

>>14457141
This. Read about aesthetics. I can actually enjoy "art" now, because I don't look at it and think "what's the point of any of this shit?" anymore but actually think about the act of looking at it, elements of its structure, beauty, etc. It's nice.

[Anonymous No.14460331]

>>14460329
art is not a product to consume

[Anonymous No.14460341]

>>14460322
>imagine believing art is in the museums and that art critics have any power over anything.

This is the complete reverse of what formalists actually hold though.

[Anonymous No.14460363]

How is that awful retard?

>>14457949
T low-brow retard.

[Anonymous No.14460383]

>>14460363
You stink of reddit.

[Anonymous No.14460451]

>>14460001
This post explains why there are communists.

[Anonymous No.14460472]

>>14457074
Jung stated that the modern art which can still be called such, and not drifted into absurdity, must be understood psychologically and not artistically.

Not much more to be said.

[Anonymous No.14460490]

>>14460001
>Daily reminder that people that invoke "beauty" are praising the immediate reaction as superior to the learned aesthetic understanding
Beauty doesn't necessarily mean instantaneous. What you are trying to say is that there should be understanding to art. This is false on many levels. Such views are fit for midwits that cannot get into actual complex structures from mathematics. By foregoing beauty for pseud understanding you deprive these disciplines of their specific value and turn them into vessels for third rate conceptual enjoyment.

[Anonymous No.14460512]

>>14460490
I agree mostly with you anon, but the thought that we cannot further develop some idea on an artpiece by its intrinsic propositions into a higher aesthetic is silly. The implicit sensory reaction is important, but we must question whether intellectual formation can not also be implicit.

So as to reject that which is not implicit and is artificial, but find art in its whole purpose.

[Anonymous No.14460514]

>>14457074
It's not you fucking normie

[Anonymous No.14460545]

Its fine, I doubt much of it will last the test of time. The part I hate more is the ass pulls of what the works "mean" they probably dont mean anything

[Anonymous No.14460584]

>>14457750
Mad I gave OP some legit recs while this thread is filled with mostly outdated semanto-aesthic arguments and the shit flinging of people who’ve never take an art history course.

[Anonymous No.14460604]

>>14460275
Yes, just use your resources. Douglas Kellner is particular good for the Baudrillard explanations. There are plenty of video essays breaking down Adorno/Horkheimer. You should probably read the wiki on Wagner and Nietzsche as well as look up Wagnerian concepts like “the total work of art.” Danto is easy if you understand anything about Warhol, which is like 20% art history, 80% intuition to interpret. You’ll be fine OP just don’t be a bitch like you are about the last two hundred years of the exchange of replicated symbols and signs.

[Anonymous No.14460996]

>>14460584
>art history course
>credibility
pick one bro

[Anonymous No.14461518]

>>14459631
Yes.

>>14460281
Thanks that was my favorite part too

[Anonymous No.14461560]

>>14460331
It can be

[Anonymous No.14461567]

>>14460319
Definitely true in places like Art Basel.

[Anonymous No.14461570]

>>14460238
Kek

[Anonymous No.14461576]

>>14460165
Cringelord

[Anonymous No.14461582]

>>14461570
>>14461576
samedude artlet

[Anonymous No.14461587]

>>14460001
>Daily reminder that the most representative spokesman of this crowd of resentful minus habens is someone who thinks Metallica is good music.


Absolutely bitterly rekt

[Anonymous No.14461592]

>>14458025

>Rallied against the status quo

Yep taping a banana to a wall sure is gonna start the revolution, any day now.

[Anonymous No.14461638]

>>14457663
This. It's his original image in lit form.
Pic related is good modern art though.

[Anonymous No.14461652]

>>14461638
Is there a vocaroo of this?

[Anonymous No.14461655]

>>14460001
But Metallica is good.

[Anonymous No.14461671]

>>14460001
>and the Joyces
Fuck, if only.

[Anonymous No.14461693]

For me, it's Mommy.
https://youtu.be/T0gkBP8UU9Q

[Anonymous No.14461706]

>>14461587
When keeping it trad goes wrong.

[Anonymous No.14461712]

>>14457701
>>14458459
ok guénonposter

[Anonymous No.14461729]

>>14457443
Based and might maketh right pilled. Fuck the fags who claim you need to be an autist about art. They won’t regard any other field in such a high regard, because art snobs think they’re somehow cultured in every way possible because of their “taste” in “fine art” as if anyone outside of their pretentious circles gives a single flying fuck about their god awful opinions.

[Anonymous No.14461746]

>>14460001
>Daily reminder that people who complain about the degeneration of art have never read a book on aesthetics, art history or art criticism
Daily reminder that people who claim you need to be an expert in order to verify whether a product or not is shit is a pretentious faggot who needs to be beat and then shot.

[Anonymous No.14461773]

>>14461592
Nothing is going to start a revolution whilst liberals exist to keep sucking the dick of capitalism with their fascist friends. Or whilst propaganda still gets churned out in the form of capeshit and other media.

>hollywood is communist

LMAO

[Anonymous No.14461792]

That epic cryptoreddit moment when Kupka, Mondrian, Kandinsky were retroactively made CIA assets by that one cryptoredditor convinced that abstract art is something that started in the 50s burgerstan.

[Anonymous No.14461861]

>>14457443
>hello? based and repilled department?

[Anonymous No.14461887]

>>14461792
at least CIA money is better than mystical eurojew faggotry

[Anonymous No.14461892]

>>14457291
Post-modernism is really still modernism. It is only the difference between pride and despair.

[Anonymous No.14461936]

>>14457074
Das Kapital.

[Anonymous No.14461960]

>>14457074
Man and His Symbols has an interesting section explaining modern art

[Anonymous No.14461964]

>>14458046
Fairly certain I'm the original Pollock/CIA poster, from a thread about the art market?

While Basquiat certainly does not have the same optimism and self-belief as Pollock, a significant reason for his incredible popularity is that despite the immediate impression of talent-less vulgarity, he actually demonstrates a keen awareness of art history, with many of his works existing at the intersection of street-art, abstract expressionism, and afro-primitivism (which was in some ways a subversive and anti-colonial [read anti-European] American movement, while also being heavily dependent on the primativsim movements of early German Expressionism and artists like Gauguin in order to have legitimacy and cogency within the Western Art tradition).

You can actually see in this painting hints of pollock around the face of the leopard faced man, and what almost seems like a suggestion of Richter in the abstract from in the lower center. It is truly the aggression and recklessness of Basquiat's works that present as the rambling visions of an addict under a bridge which ultimately unites a vigorous and potent symbology.

All that said, for as interesting as it may be to try and analyze, it is ultimately ugly. It might have a complex language unto itself, but out of the impenetrable gibberish, it speaks only false mania and despair--a schizophrenic art for a schizophrenic city in a schizophrenic age.

[Anonymous No.14461969]

>>14461887
>>14461792
NuRight Redditors actually believe this.

[Anonymous No.14461976]

>>14461960
What's he say?

[Anonymous No.14461982]

art is subjective

[Anonymous No.14461999]

>>14460001
Almost all the artists you list were degenerate. It's true, they were brilliant, but instead of building up our society, they helped tear it down. You don't understand the problem with Modern thinking because you yourself are a Modern thinker. The most obvious tell is of course that you begin our tradition with the Greeks, and not the Bible. You think this is Western, or European tradition first, and not the history of Christianity. You criticize straw man equivocations, but fail to distinguish between the rational and the reasonable. You have made man the measure of things, and yet you have no measure of Man. If you would rather have Joyce than Alighieri, Monet than Michelangelo, then you would have a castle in the clouds.

Art is a language of visual representation. How can you possibly judge the quality of the work without evaluating the quality of what is said?

[Anonymous No.14462004]

It is the other way around why modern man has an awful taste see in art demand creates its own supply not the other way around also artists need khubz

[Anonymous No.14462006]

>>14457074
Representations of the human unconscious from a secular perspective, which accounts for it's unstructured, otherworldly, or seemingly illogical content. Abstract, expressionism, and surrealism, to me are all manifestations of this psychological conception. In previous times this from of art can be found within religions iconography in relation to hell, the underworld, or folk art, all of which are depicting the same thing, merely through a different cultural perspective. In post-war era of the 50's onward, the works of Freud and Jung were already widely known and would have been a direct cultural influence on our understanding of the human mind. This can also be found in the experimental music of the time, especially in the 60's and 70's when electronic audio engineering was becoming more prevalent. I think another good example can be found in composers like Stockhausen. You can go further into analyzing this phenomena through the philosophical works of the 20th century. I think a lot of the (post)modern cultural theory found in the 80's and 90's can really aid in getting to the root of what modern art really represents, but for me music has been the best aid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cj69iU3zRWM

[Anonymous No.14462012]

>>14461976
That true knowledge can only be acquired through dedication and personal study.

[Anonymous No.14462029]

>>14461792
I never said the CIA's investment in the New York school was the beginning of abstract art. That would be absurd. My original post was only about how the art market is fueled by two different games--that of the commodification of luxury by Art buyers, and the ideological warfare of curators and critics. Pollock was only an example of how buyers thinking they are buying one thing, ended up funding something subversive to their purpose, because the buyers were almost wholly illiterate in art and philosophy.

[Anonymous No.14462037]

>>14461982
NOOOO YOU CAN'T SAY THAT BECAUSE THIS ART LOOKS LIKE SHIT AND I WON'T SAY WHY JUST LOOK AT IT AND AGREE WITH ME

[Anonymous No.14462041]

>>14462006
based

[Anonymous No.14462042]

>>14462012
Why? Isn't that the exact opposite of art?

[Anonymous No.14462043]

>>14461999
Our current society is a neoliberal hellhole for everyone but those at the top and needs to be torn down and burned so in its wake we can create something better.

[Anonymous No.14462044]

>>14461982
You got any idea what your sentence actually means?

[Anonymous No.14462056]

>>14457074
If you want to make it as an artist you basically have to in some way one-up what came before you. This leads towards fragmentation and increasingly bizarre output.

[Anonymous No.14462061]

>>14462042
I was replying to your request, not talking about art sheesh

[Anonymous No.14462085]

>>14462056
I mean contemporary physics is probably equally bizarre with stuff like entanglement, hologprahic universe, multiverse etc. I think this is just the result of basic resource and reproductive competition. Men just want to find new ways to make a name for themselves and acquire wealth, social status and sexual opportunity. This often results in them destroying previous paradigms, the only problem is we are so deep into this that it's difficult now to think up new ways of what is essentially peacocking in art or science without moving into absurdity. Contemporary art or science is basically just equivalent to the buff dude wearing a way too tight shirt in the club, they're both posturing one is just focusing on physical assets while the other are focusing on intellectual assets.

[Anonymous No.14462096]

>>14457074
>hatin on Basadequiat

[Anonymous No.14462129]

>>14457074
cause you have shit taste and need to go back to /pol/

[Anonymous No.14462137]

189 posts and not a single mention of Tolstoy. Fuck you guys.

[Anonymous No.14462162]

>>14457074
>why modern art is so fucking awful
Because the world itself and human existence is

[Anonymous No.14462163]

>>14462006
What's this racket?

[Anonymous No.14462166]

>>14462061
Scurr burr

[Anonymous No.14462192]

>>14462137
I'm sorry man, no offence. God bless!

[Anonymous No.14462209]

As has been stated many times, the CIA promoted meaningless abstract modern art over genuine Marxist art that would've encouraged the proletariat to unite and overthrow their rulers.

[Anonymous No.14462211]

>>14462043
Bad idea. We have already lost so much. Better to struggle so future generations have more than to surrender and lose everything.

[Anonymous No.14462214]

>>14457949
You try making a painting like it. I'm actually asking if you have the creative output to produce something better. You don't? Try anyways. Maybe you'll begin to appreciate artistic merit and expression.

[Anonymous No.14462215]

>>14462209
The soviet art you are posting was not created to encourage the working class to revolt. It was created to reassure the bureaucrats of the soviet system that their actions were just.

[Anonymous No.14462224]

>>14462214
Just because it is difficult does not mean that it is good.

[Anonymous No.14462229]

>>14462224
What does mean that it is good then? Your all-encompassing judgement?

[Anonymous No.14462231]

>>14457074
Jesus Christ was that made by an autistic 5 year old

[Anonymous No.14462235]

>>14462214
It’s schizo art anon.

[Anonymous No.14462238]

>>14462229
The quality of any work can only be understood by the manner in which it fulfills or fails to fulfill its purpose, and by the goodness of the purpose itself.

[Anonymous No.14462239]

>>14462085
der coombrain

[Anonymous No.14462252]

>>14460472
we need some Jung threads on here

[Anonymous No.14462260]

>>14462214
>I'd like to see you do better!

One of the dumbest retorts ever.

[Anonymous No.14462278]

>>14460001
Refute it
https://youtu.be/N-OArgBcBRk

[Anonymous No.14462301]

>>14461999
>The most obvious tell is of course that you begin our tradition with the Greeks, and not the Bible.
Why would one do otherwise?

[Anonymous No.14462313]

>>14460001
Whats wrong with early metallica desu?

[Anonymous No.14462321]

>>14461999
>the bible isnt anything other than one part jewish myth and second part bastardised greek thought

[Anonymous No.14462326]

>>14461999
Alighieri's insertions of people into hell or heaven in his fantasy is not something to be commended from a Christian point of view. It is baseless speculation.

[Anonymous No.14462338]

>>14462301
Because Rome fell, and the Church has not.

[Anonymous No.14462347]

>>14462338
kek

[Anonymous No.14462352]

>>14462326
What is your point?

[Anonymous No.14462354]

>>14462338
so, will you convert to islam once it does? how darwinian

[Anonymous No.14462365]

>>14462347
That you find pedophilia in any way disagreeable is a strong demonstration that, despite all your protest, you belong to the Christian tradition and not the Athenian.

[Anonymous No.14462370]

>>14462326
There's some literalism that would make a protestant proud.

[Anonymous No.14462375]

>>14462365
Nice cope faggot.

[Anonymous No.14462379]

>>14462354
If might makes right, then Rome shouldn't have fallen in the first place. If Christianity survived Rome, it will survive Islam.

[Anonymous No.14462388]

>>14462379
Why do Christians rely on this materialist argument when it is prohibited in their laws?

[Anonymous No.14462395]

>>14462375
Homosexuality is a Greco-Roman idea reintroduced by the Late Renaissance and Early Enlightenment. Generations of protestants reading Plato has enshrined Sodomy as cultural more. Do you honestly believe pedophilia is more common among Catholic priests than the general population?

[Anonymous No.14462416]

>>14462388
What exactly do you think you are saying? You say Christianity is just a bad, failed idea that causes men to be weak and submissive. If one takes the perspective of ideological Darwinism, which you seem to, then Christianity should have already died a painful death a very long time ago. Christianity has not died; therefore, your understanding of ideological conflict cannot be accurate.

[Anonymous No.14462496]

>>14462395
Plato opposed sodomy. Otherwise, huge cope since your example relies on a secularized society near its end and its non-religious elements. Christianity maintains a perverse sexuality even as it is condemned by a society that is sexually liberal in most other areas.
And yes, when the pope is involved in a cover-up much larger than any muslim rape gang or even BBC/buckingham conspiracy then it is extremely bad.
There is an overrepresentation of fags in the church because the religion is representative of the type.

[Anonymous No.14462527]

>>14462416
>if one takes the perspective of ideological Darwinism, which you seem to

you're not talking to just one person, and even still - you were the first one to bring it up here >>14462338 nobody else did

[Anonymous No.14462544]

>>14462496
You only call it Sodomy because of the Christian tradition. Why and how could that be if Christianity supports sodomy?

[Anonymous No.14462559]

>>14462527
You read what you want to read. The question was whether we live in a Christian or Roman tradition. How could we live in a Roman tradition if there is no tradition that lives form Rome other than Christianity?

[Anonymous No.14462575]

>>14462559
Another thing that only you brought up, in order to facilitate your strawman. Why are you talking about Rome? Western civilization begun in ancient Greece.

[Anonymous No.14462664]

>>14462575
Absolutely absurd. The very idea of East and West only comes from the Roman Empire. If you want to say it began in Greece, well Greece grew from Egypt. Literally no one in Europe thought Greece was the beginning of Europe until the "enlightenment." Sure, the post I responded to put Greece as the beginning, but what is the justification for this? You take it for granted that Western culture begins in Greece, but why? Because that's what you're social studies or literature teacher taught you? And why do they say this? Because a secular humanist from 1750 thought so? It's true, Greek thinking is included in the Western tradition and in the East, but nowhere is there any continuity of pedagogy or practice except in the Catholic church, which is not based on Platonic or Aristotelian ideals, but rather is based on its own religious principles and beliefs.

[Anonymous No.14462914]

>>14462544
lmao fucking retard

[Anonymous No.14462942]

>>14462914
In the Bible, Sodom is destroyed when the population takes to forceful and abominable practices. Sodomy has been held as a mortal sin for all time. Failing to confess sodomy is a mortal sin. Aiding and abetting a mortal sin or covering up a mortal sin is also a mortal sin. Since the beginning, Sodomy has been held as a sin crying out to heaven for justice.

Meanwhile, in Plato's Symposium, pedophilia is presented as a kind of love.

[Anonymous No.14462960]

>>14458025
It was about channeling opposition to the status quo in such a way that it was opposed to the Soviet Union and not opposed to the Vietnam War. Same story with most of the counterculture.

[Anonymous No.14463039]

>>14457074

Venus In Exile by Wendy Steiner

[Anonymous No.14463191]

>>14462365
I didn't know Socrates was an American libertarian.

[Anonymous No.14463255]

>>14459616
That's the point dumbo

[Anonymous No.14463299]

>>14462942
The world is more than 2000 years old.

[Anonymous No.14463331]

>>14463299
Od course it is. And yet you call this year 2020. You mark January 1st--the octave of Christmas and the feast of the circumcision of Christ--as the start of the year. You inuitively understand what someone means by Sodomy. Your entire life is lived within a sphere of understanding shaped by the Catholic church. What few parts appear Roman or Greek were revival movements which had no direct relationship to the Roman empire. The only surviving links to Greece are within the Catholic church. Greece hardly existed as a unified state until the past century. The greek tradition died. The roman tradition died. The jewish tradition died. All that lives is the Catholic church.