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/lit/ - Literature

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14446909 No.14446909 [Reply] [Original]

Philosophers historically have lived alongside scientists of their eras.

Those scientists generated predictive models of nature that can be verified by anyone that take the same steps as them. The fact that science gave us predictive power allowed us to create technology and civilization.

The philosophers have never, and will never generate any predictive models of anything, because they only write about opinions that can't be tested or verified.

It is the greatest collective hysteria to elevate Philosophy to the same level of importance as Science.

Is there any book that can seriously refute this?
A book that proves that through pure philosophy, without science, any predictive model of reality could be attained?

Can you develop the cure for cancer purely by philosophizing hard enough, without any scientific empirism?

>> No.14446911

Cancer should not be cured under any circumstance.

>> No.14446915

>>14446909
What about is-ought gap tho

>> No.14446916

>>14446909
up until like the 1500s science and philosophy were the same thing

>> No.14446926
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14446926

*unblocks your path*

>> No.14448433

>>14446909
newton described himself as a philosopher

>> No.14448441

>>14448433
Who wouldn't, science is gay as fuck

>> No.14448449

Phenomenology of Spirit has a few jabs at the science community

>> No.14448465
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14448465

Oof try reading Guenon and he dissects profane science

>> No.14448466

>>14446909
Science used to be called 'natural philosophy' before the scientific method was refined which is itself a product of philosophy in general.

>> No.14448467

>>14446909
>The philosophers have never, and will never generate any predictive models of anything, because they only write about opinions that can't be tested or verified.
hurr durr muh models
why don't you construct a predictive model of why you're such a massive faggot LMAO

>> No.14448485

Science debunked:
https://youtu.be/pUUw2hFjry4

>> No.14448487

>>14448449
uhh... how?

>> No.14448495

I mean it is REALLY annoying that there is even REMOTELY any competition between science and philosophy. :3

I really choose to not give a FUCK about that and generally just study whatever I feel like. I end up reading quite a lot of scientific/mathematical stuff from all time periods and philosophical texts from all time periods as well. It just wouldn’t feel right if I didn’t. If I excluded one for the other I would feel like a complete retard.

>> No.14448498

>>14446916
this
>>14446909
science is just a branch of philosophy

>> No.14448500

>>14448487
not them but iirc hegel rants about what we would today call stemlords in the preface

>> No.14448514
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14448514

>>14446909
Imagine being this Apollonian.

>> No.14448521

>>14446911
Why?

>> No.14448523

Science hasn't made life any more meaningful

>> No.14448525

>>14448500
1. Newton tried not to distinguish the difference between solar system and ground in earth, and this was wrong.
2. Newton tried to explain the forces of nature by mathematical principles, so Newton could not understand the "essence" of matter.
3. The whole universe, including the sun, must be described as an organism, and Newton, who did not explain like this, was wrong.
Is this a Hegel's criticism on newtonian mechanics?

>> No.14448529

>>14448485
Holy shit... I couldn't tolerate the amount of smug condescension for more than 10 seconds. I fast-forwarded to around 15 minutes, saw him literally doing air-quotes while rolling his eyes, and promptly fucking closed the video.

>> No.14448543

>>14446909
Science tells you how something works.

Philosophy tells you why you should give a shit.

And science is based on rules of logic established by philosophy. Science would not exist without it.

>> No.14448548

>>14448485
This is the most flamingly Jew Yorker thing I've ever fucking witnessed in my life. I mean holy fucking shit, this man is a living parody.

>> No.14448551

>>14446916
>up until the point science actually started to matter science and philosophy were the same thing
fascinating

>> No.14448559

>>14448551
So science didn't matter for at least 1500 years while philosophy mattered all that time?
Fascinating

>> No.14448561

>>14448559
>while philosophy mattered all that time
lmao

>> No.14448564

>>14448559
What was the average life like during this "enlightened" time of philosophical rule?

>> No.14448589

>>14448564
Pretty damn based

>> No.14448594

>>14448589
I'd say "you have to go back" but unfortunately time machines aren't real. :(

>> No.14448600

>>14448594
If only we didn't kill all those damn witches off back then

>> No.14448601

>>14448564
Doesnt matter

>> No.14448602

>>14448564
Read Guénon

>> No.14448625
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14448625

>>14448594
I wish I could

>> No.14448627

>>14448564
Life longevity =/= a better technological/Political system.

You would know this if you read Plato :3

>> No.14448629

>>14448449
bollocks. you don't know what he said in that book because no one does. there's even a class of readers who argue he wasn't putting forth a metaphysical system. fucking hilarious.

>> No.14448636
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14448636

>>14448629
Did you even try? I had to put a lot of time into it but there was nothing that seemed like it didn't make sense. Its just hard to grasp it all at once. I was trying to find the passage about the science community but I forget where it is

>> No.14448687
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14448687

>>14448600
Not all of them!

>> No.14448693

>>14446909
>The fact that science gave us predictive power allowed us to create technology and civilization.
That’s a bad thing you fucking retard

>> No.14448695

>>14446909
"No one is a genuine metaphysician who has not penetrated into the form-world of numbers, who has not lived them into himself as a symbolism. And in fact it was the great thinkers of the Baroque who created the analytical mathematic, and the same is true, mutatis mutandis, of the great pre-Socratics and Plato. Descartes and Leibniz stand beside Newton and Gauss, Pythagoras and Plato by Archytas and Archimedes, at the summits of mathematical development. But already in Kant the philosopher has become, as mathematician, negligible. Kant no more penetrated to the last subtleties of the Calculus as it stood in his own day than he absorbed the axiomatic of Leibniz. The same may be said of Aristotle. And thenceforward there is no philosopher who is counted as a mathematician. Fichte, Hegel and the Romantics were entirely unmathematical, and so were Zeno and Epicurus. Schopenhauer in this field is weak to the point of crudity, and of Nietzsche the less said the better. When the form-world of numbers passed out of its ken, philosophy lost a great convention, and since then it has lacked not only structural strength but also what may be called the grand style of thinking."

>> No.14448700

>>14448627
Yes, being on the perpetual starvation in shitty living conditions clearly has nothing to do with the quality of a socioeconomic system. Where the fuck do I immediately sign up for rich theocrats to beat me into submission?

>> No.14448708
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14448708

>>14448695
>penetrated to the last subtleties of the Calculus
Whitehead did precisely this.

>> No.14448713

>>14446909
Do you think your Empiricist epistemology fell from the sky or did the second guy in the picture had something to do with it?

>> No.14448714

>>14448695
Mulla Sadra BTFOs all the scientists

>> No.14448729
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14448729

>>14448713
Hume was just describing what actual scientists did at the time. Philosophers never invent anything, if they did they wouldn't be philosophers.

>> No.14448749

>>14448695
Who said this quote?

>> No.14448772

>>14446909
>It is the greatest collective hysteria to elevate Philosophy to the same level of importance as Science.
Lel who does this? Philosophy is just a fun hobby, not anything actually worth anything for society at large.

>> No.14448774

philosophy is "the science of the limits of reason"

>> No.14448795

>>14448729
You don't understand how philosophy and science relate to one another, Medieval scientists believed in teleology because they interpreted their findings through the lens of an Aristotelian philosophy. The reason that scientific findings are interpreted in a naturalistic way today is because of the influence of philosophers like Hume.

>> No.14448796

>>14448700
Your perception of the world might be currently altered by others who have a vested profitable interest to ensure that you consider all other political systems as asanine.

Along the lines, believe it or not, I am actually arguing that how long you live, and even how much you have to eat, does not mean that your SOUL is being nourished correctly. :3

>> No.14448797

>>14448713
The scientific method predates hume by more than a century you dumb retard

>> No.14448803

>>14448774
question on morality is usually not about limits of reason, and it is often about very trivial thing. so not a good definition

>> No.14448813

>>14448797
The scientific method is not the same thing as the doctrines or Empiricism or philosophical naturalism

t. product of modern education

>> No.14448828

>>14448813
Empiricism didn't start with Hume you pseud shit. Stop posting on this board subhuman

>> No.14448839

>>14446909
if science is so smart why do people still die?

>> No.14448845

>>14448774
In which book did Kant say this? I've only seen it quoted in Fanged Noumena.

>> No.14448854

What about aesthetics? Political theory? Law and jurisprudence? Have we reached a stage in which these things have left behind their "philosophical" classifications and been rigorously 'solved' through scientific positivism?

>> No.14448859

>>14448854
>aesthetics? Political theory?
Already solved by Plato

>> No.14448878

>>14448749
Spengler

>> No.14448885

>>14448854
DUDE i just LOVE the hustle and bustle of SCIENCE! it’s so PREDICTIVE and makes me feel like i’m in one of my favourite TV SHOWS: RICK AND MORTY WUBALUBADUB.

>> No.14448916

>>14446909
There's literally centuries of debate on the relationship between philosophy and science(s). Look at the neo-positivists vs hermeneutics, Quine vs Wiener Kreis, Kuhn vs Popper, Feyerabend vs everyone, just as a slice.

>> No.14448930

>>14448828
And? The relevant point is that Empiricism is a philosophical doctrine, not who was the first Empiricist philosopher. You are shit at red herrings my dude.

>> No.14448938

>>14448930
Then why are you bringing up Hume dumb fuck? Is it because you have no idea about history of science yet you insist that you must post it like a dumb pseud?

>> No.14448942

>>14448878
https://archive.org/details/Decline-Of-The-West-Oswald-Spengler/page/n71
he does not mention in the first part

>> No.14448950

Science can't solve phenomenology so it's inherently cringe

>> No.14448964

>>14448938
I don't know, maybe because he is widely recognized as the most influential Empiricist in modern philosophy?

Also why are you moving the goal posts again, the point is that Empiricism is a philosophical doctrine, not a scientific one. If you agree with this we are agreement, and you should calm your tits already. If you don't, you don't understand either what philosophy or science is. Choooose

>> No.14448972

>>14448964
>the point is that
No, the point is that you posted
>Do you think your Empiricist epistemology fell from the sky or did the second guy in the picture had something to do with it?
which is retarded and you should go fuck yourself pseud shit. I'm not OP and I don't care about retarded science vs philosophy threads, but I don't like faggot posers like you.

Kill yourself

>> No.14449042
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14449042

>>14448495
This

I’m also not wholly convinced that, as a society, we hold philosophy in the same esteem as science. If we did we wouldn’t urge kids into stem while condemning the study of philosophy as a waste of money and time. I personally think that one inevitably engages in philosophy before coming to any new scientific conclusions since the act of forming a hypothesis is inherently philosophical.

>> No.14449047

>>14449042
>I'm also not wholly convinced that, as a society, we hold philosophy in the same esteem as science
where would you get such a crazy notion

>> No.14449054

>>14446909
> because they only write about opinions
wrong
> that can't be tested or verified.
Wrong

>> No.14449117

How come philosophers cannot come to agreement and build upon eachothers inquiries, like in science?

>> No.14449122

>>14449117
Scientists have no imagination.

>> No.14449139
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14449139

>>14446909
>In both cases modern materialism is essentially dialectic, and no longer needs any philosophy standing above the other sciences. As soon as each special science is bound to make clear its position in the great totality of things and of our knowledge of things, a special science dealing with this totality is superfluous. That which still survives, independently, of all earlier philosophy is the science of thought and its laws — formal logic and dialectics. Everything else is subsumed in the positive science of nature and history.

>> No.14449150

>>14448629
He puts forth no metaphysical system in the Phenomenology, retard

>> No.14449190

>>14449047
Source: it came to me in a dream

>> No.14449193

>>14448972
You are mentally ill

>> No.14449250

>>14449117
Read Kuhn's The Structure of Scientific Revolutions and you'll see how wrong you are.

>> No.14449259

>>14449139
Was it autism?

>> No.14449391

Pre-Socratics? More like CRINGE-O-MATICS AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>> No.14450249

>>14448523
>what is positive psychology

>> No.14450256
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14450256

>>14448885
>t. too dumb for science/rick and morty

>> No.14450354
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14450354

>>14446909
Lol...
>shares a girl (beta already) takes picture to inmortalize momment (cuck, pervert thinking) and at the end the girl chooses the other guy over him in spite that he proposed to her twice.
>Goes to franco-german war... as a nurse...
>writtes pages and pages about how thinking is the weapon of the weak, using Socrates has example (in spite Socrates actually DID fought in a war against one of the most prestigious armys in history), conclusion he got by... thinking.--
>as the nerve to say that "the weak and ill constituted should die", and to give birth to the concept "ubersmanch" then goes insane and dies slowly in the CARE of mental institutions, expiring his pathethic excuse of a life like a fragile child calling out to his mom.
>goes to hell and suffers eternally

DAMN BOIS I SEE WHY HE IS OUR GUY, HE PROYECTS HIS OWN INSECURITIES INTO THE WORLD FUELED WITH HIS AUTISMO. I CAN TOTALLY RELATE

>> No.14450439

>>14448564
It's always been good for the most privileged and less and less good the less privileged you are.

>> No.14450554

>>14446916
wrong

>> No.14450609

>>14449042
Wtf is going on that pic

>> No.14450610

>>14449054
name ONE (1) philosophical conviction that can be objectively tested

>> No.14450620

>>14449250
>dude kuhn thinks scientific progress doesn’t exist lmao
cringe. back to phil 101 with you

>> No.14451249

>>14448845
the entire cpr

>> No.14452475
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14452475

>>14446909
>The philosophers have never, and will never generate any predictive models of anything, because they only write about opinions that can't be tested or verified.
yeah, and? if it wasn't for philosophical genius, we would have still been stuck with feudal kings. philosophy is literally all that matters but spergs think that technology can solve literally all world's problems even when this technology is caught in bondage of institutional restrictions which can only be removed via philosophical discourse embodied in the great social revolutions

>> No.14452503

>>14450554
right

>> No.14452536

>>14446916
Yeah Hippocrates is my favorite philosopher. Euclid is also pretty good, but Ptolemy is my runner-up. I love the way they summed up life.