/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.14423955]

>fell for the optimistic nihilism meme
how do i get out? is there another way to live?

[Anonymous No.14423960]

>>14423955
accept social constructions as legitimate vehicles for meaning

[Anonymous No.14423968]

Religion

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.14423970]

>I dun wanna be optimistic
What’s the matter anon?

[Anonymous No.14423983]

read Schopenhauer and become an ascetic

[Anonymous No.14424908]

Optimistic nihilism is just shy absurdism.

[Anonymous No.14424909]

>>14423960
this

[Anonymous No.14424920]

>>14423955
Stop shying away from the divinity of your own consciousness and turn to religion.

[Anonymous No.14424929]

>>14423955
Have you tried pessimistic nihilism?

[Anonymous No.14424933]

>>14424908
absurdism is just reddit

[Anonymous No.14424972]

just tend ur garden bro

[Anonymous No.14425010]

>>14423955
Shankara.

[Anonymous No.14425030]

>>14423960
Based,

[Anonymous No.14425033]

>>14423955
Corpus Hermeticum

[Anonymous No.14425171]

>>14423960
Go even further and treat them as organic, living growths rather than abstract constructs.

[Anonymous No.14425958]

>optimistic nihilism
I'll tell you something about optimistic nihilism...

The core of "nihilism" at least on mainstream culture, philosophy and Reddit is "there's no meaning, just create one!" I don't know how naive do you have be to think people who are aware of their cognitive biases, insatisfaction, and cosmic irrelevance of their existence can manage to consciously create meaning. I think that we are instead pushed to meaning by our own biases and routines. Every existentialist will say they chose their meaning, but it's obvious the things they deem meaningful are a result of their life story (hobbies, partners, family). We aren't so intelligent. Also, as happens frequently with atheists, nihilists can be ridiculously optimistic, showing in fact the nihilistic aspect of their ideas is only a facade to show power and think themselves in control. It's a feel-good philosophy. Not unlike religion.

Existentialism is predicated on voluntarism and free-will. We have absolute liberty all of the time (for example the liberty to kill ourselves -I would disagree-), and this is attractive in our postmodern narcissistic era where we need to exude power and confidence to win in the social arena, one based around power very much still. We are still prehistoric brains with technology, most of the time engaged and astonished by certain social cues. Extroversion, for example.

This isn't the worst part. We are on the AN sub, in the end. I couldn't tell how many times I've heard supposed nihilists, existentialists, atheists, environmentalists, socialists, etc. who should be all for criticizing the status quo, reinforce it even more with procreation, nuclear family. Any sub dedicated to these lines of thought will rush to protect parents, to paternalistically shield them from existential questioning, to help their egos even more by posing parenthood as a right.

Depressive realism is far more interesting. Firstly, "nihilism" always seemed to me like a disrespectful philosophy to have regarding suffering. Suffering is, in the end, the only thing with an undeniable positive existence in the world (pain exists, it's felt). It disregards it in favor of a child-like idea of creating significance. However, when you go and actually see how people derive meaning in the real world, as I said, it couldn't be far from the truth. It's never playful, it's a result of coping. People's brains strive to find things to hold us to existence, reproduction, etc. We just can't be depressed all of the time, that's why biases like optimist bias exist. People come out of trauma, depression, existential crises and cling to hedonism and the idea that they're still in control because they chose their coping mechanism. They didn't, of course. 1/?

[Anonymous No.14425962]

>>14425958
"Meaning" is totally hedonistic. People are very much motivated to avoid pain at all costs, as this is the only thing that is undoubtedly negative. This pain can be mental or physical. Nothing wrong with hedonism, but we have to be authentic with ourselves and notice our own motivations.

Secondly, "nihilism" doesn't care about the world. In practice, it's self-centered. Very much like the "I'm not political" types, it revolves around personal goals, states of mind, and doesn't care to make any contemplation above and beyond our fragile egos. For the existentialist, the depressive state of mind is not a result of actual existing flaws in life, society, our brains, the structure of desire (choose your poison), but a lack of meaning, i.e. a lack of an actual coping mechanism that helps one endure pain. Most Reddit advice, for example, is painfully existentialist. "Don't like your job?", "don't like your life?", "feeling lonely?", the answer is so simple... "just find something that gives you pleasure or gives you meaning!" And this happens at every ideological end of the spectrum. Existentialism is incredibly mainstream. Again, coming back to a former point, people don't really understand how meaning/coping is developed. It is not a conscious process, and most people cope and endure existence via attatchments and guilt (most suicidal people don't kill themselves because of their families/friends).

Thirdly, I really doubt the effectiveness of coping. It's clear we don't have a single solution, but it's probable we don't have one either. The vast amount of psychological schools, religions, philosophies, self-help, hobbies, etc. and our continous striving for more and more shows we are never in a state of content with our existence. Be it due to simple biological needs (eating, sleeping, peeing) or more complex ones. It's never enough. no amount of love, money, activities, friends are nearly enough to satisfy our ego, that still seeks to experience more and more. That's why we don't inmediately kill ourselves after the most pleasurable thing. We still want more of the same, the glass is never full. Insatisfaction is our true human nature.

Any judgement about the world that doesn't put suffering above everything is flawed. Following the ideas outlined in the third point we can see most people are in disconfort, if not extreme pain, or in a state of temporary absence of pain. Suffering is guaranteed in any life. It's a constant, while pleasure (really not much more that absence of pain, and disolution of our egos in the emotions and sensations overflowing our brains) is astonishingly rare, and temporary. Not only humans suffer, but animals as well, but I would want to focus on humanity in this post.

[Anonymous No.14425968]

Made up phrases like "life is beautiful", "life is a gift", etc. are another form of coping mechanisms. Optimism in the face of disaster is nothing but ignorance. We shouldn't help people become optimistic about their lives, if anything we need people to become aware. They suffer nonetheless, and I would argue optimists cause much more suffering all together due to higher rates of procreation, consumerism, etc. Reddit, of all places, is huge on the "reinforcing cognitive biases" part. Most subs are devoted to pastimes, funny stuff, or ego-reinforcing politics. The world dissapears from view. That's why social media, Netflix and other streaming services are so prevalent. People don't want to live in the "real world": they don't want to be confronted with the consequences of existence, and of pain. Their life is nothing but entertainment overflowing their brains, even when "going outside" we are still in our brains, and things like poverty disappear from sight. They're there, but they aren't registered because as soon as we walk past them we are already thinking about the next thing. Heck, I doubt even the most suffering people register suffering as it should be. No one cares in the end, it's all an atomistic rat-race.

How many times have you heard someone saying they can't be alone with their thoughts? Even the "wokest" subreddits and people can't go on without a little bit of alienation. Existence is too bright to see directly. In fact, as everything happens "at a distance", the effect of suffering is hugely reduced. "80 killed in Palestinian hospital" is nothing but another one line in the news, not more important that the amount of donuts you are going to eat before work. We live in alienation. Those who suffer greatly can't have the privilege of alienation at the same degree of others, but are also incapable of acting due to the uncertainties of the labor market, their survival, diseases, lack of political movements capable of doing anything.

In the end, we should have the opposite attitude. Not being existentialists but realists, depressive but aware, and embrace a culture of anti-help, anti-therapy, anti-conforming to society. We have to become more and more aware of our pathetic situation, our cognitive biases and the suffering we cope with and reproduce with each new baby that comes to this world. 3/3

[Anonymous No.14425969]

>>14425968
Oops, forgot to connect this to my first and second posts. Anyways
>tl;dr "muh optimistic nihilism" is reddit tier

[Anonymous No.14425976]

>>14423968
How do I into religion when I don't believe in God.

[Anonymous No.14426091]

>>14425968
>Made up phrases like "life is beautiful", "life is a gift", etc. are another form of coping mechanisms.

>form of coping mechanism
This portion and sentiment applies as well. Words are as physical and as real as your body.

[Anonymous No.14426099]

>>14425976
Be a protestant

[Anonymous No.14426114]

>>14425976
Why'd you want a religion if you don't believe in God?

[Anonymous No.14426122]

>>14423955
Jesus

[Anonymous No.14426125]

>>14425976
If you larp long enough you will become one through osmotic process. That is all religion is a flesh-space pretense movement array. Once a strain racinates deeply into your cortex it may be hard to remove.

[Anonymous No.14426204]

>>14426114
To fill the void with meaning.
>>14426125
What an awful and shallow prospect. Does life not have any value onto itself?

[Anonymous No.14426332]

>>14425976
Accept it on faith. If you can't, then either find another way to seek meaning or continue with a purposeless existence, I guess.

[Anonymous No.14426335]

>>14423955
it's called existentialism, not "optimistic nihilism"

[Anonymous No.14426379]

>>14424933
how absurd

[Anonymous No.14426891]

>>14426335
And that's all you have to contribute huh.

[Anonymous No.14427019]

>>14426891
yes

[Anonymous No.14427336]

>>14423955
>optimistic nihilism
the fuck is this reddit shite?

[Anonymous No.14427361]

>>14425968
I largely agree, although I think some degree of proactive disposition is important and optimism (or at least hope that you can achieve something) is a part of that. Perhaps it would be useful to distinguish between blind optimism and informed striving.

I think you're somewhat harsh with respect to natalism and suffering. Yes, there are too many people... Not all populations are equally culpable in this respect, however. With respect to suffering, it's the necessary ante for life. I suspect most people — unless they suffered in unusually horrific ways — would rather have existed than not.

[Anonymous No.14427371]

[Anonymous No.14427561]

>>14423960 lmao

[Anonymous No.14428404]

>>14425958
>>14425962
>>14425968
did you come to this conclusion by yourself? i agree for the most part but also with this anon>>14427361 because i am still happy i got to be born even if its mostly misery.

Im not good at expressing myself but i wonder why it is that the great heaving mass just stays catatonic, surely most people notice that the state of society at large is very flawed and want to discuss it in more depth than "we live in a society bottom text"

[Anonymous No.14428420]

Just watch Neil de Grasse tyson videos and post on Reddit until the end of fucking time

Shit like this is produced by bourgeois think tanks to make the middle class complacent while the rich steals all their fucking money and uses literal slaves in the third world to make their trendy glitter iPhone cases.

Go sit in a park with your sweetie! (DON'T HAVE ONE, ALL SOCIAL RELATIONS HAVE DEGENERATED TO ORGYPORGY PROLEFEED NIGHTMARE)

Take Facebook tweet selfies of your stupid bullshit! (ENDLESSLY FOCUS ON DAY-TO-DAY PETTY SOCIALIZING AND LASCHIAN NARCISSISTIC GRANDSTANDING ON SOCIAL MEDIA, ALL HUMAN RELATIONSHIPS HAVE BEEN REDUCED TO LITERALLY PREHISTORICAL LEVELS OF HYPERGAMY IN A WHIRLING GYRE OF MEANINGLESS TINDER FACEFUCKING FOR THE SELECT FEW AND ELLIOT RODGER RESENTMENT FOR THE REST)

Consume trendy garbage and eat cool food :P!!!! (LITERALLY CHINESE NIGGER SLAVES MADE YOUR STUPID BULLSHIT "THINKGEEK.COM" BAUBLES AND DESIGNER STRETCHPANTS, IN ENDLESS WASTELANDS THAT RESEMBLE THE FACTORIES OF INDUSTRIAL ENGLAND MARX WROTE ABOUT IN COMPLETE HORROR)

These people are trying to thought control you into passively reclining and injecting low-effort Mythbusters reddit filth into your brain and ignoring the dull ache of meaninglessness and consumerist overstimulation from inhaling high fructose corn syrup and salt all fucking day

"Optimistic nihilism" is what rich faggots pay slightly less rich faggots to convince lumpenproles to think they're experiencing when they work in a cubicle for 45 years to finance a lifestyle of watching proles modify Nerf guns and design "man caves". Turn off the Youtube and develop some tastes and moral preferences taht an algorithm designed by Amazon can't predict and use to predict your entire life befoer you've evn lived it you peice of fucking shit

[Anonymous No.14428438]

>>14425171
i thought constructs were organic living growths

[Anonymous No.14428518]

>>14425958
I don't think that the nuclear family is anymore the status quo. It seems more normal to reject the idea of a man and a woman raising a child together, I see more often than not single mothers desperately trying to feed their children. Divorce became the status quo, since first wave nihilists rejected the social constructs that made many a family function somewhat above the poverty line in the past. You have provoked within me a thought.

The religious and moral principles surrounding the sanctity of marriage, surrounding virginity and sex, have been essentially destroyed. In their absence, people have been manipulated by their intemperance, and in some ways there is almost a moral principle that says "Having lots of sex with strangers is good. Porn is good, hedonism good", which I know exists because third/fourth wave feminists vociferously declare that sex work is work, and that we should all support sex workers.

So then I don't believe that optimistic nihilism is possible, there are far too many people who would rather be told what to do than to be told life is what you make of it. Even those who choose their own lives in the end must give orders to themselves. You reject one moral principle, and others will pop up in their place. I rather dislike Nietzsche for that, the world he has played a part in shaping has fallen into decadence. I would rather have structure that has been designed over millenia than our 140 year old society that is falling apart at the sides. When Nietzsche killed God, I wonder if he imagined billions more would spawn in his place, like a multiheaded hydra.

[Anonymous No.14428532]

>>14425976
Agnosticism is better imo

[Anonymous No.14429143]

>>14425958
Would you believe that there is some sort of peace or contentment in embracing suffering as a whole?

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.14429155]

>>14427336
>Where’s my pessimistic nihilism?
Cornboy

[Anonymous No.14429277]

>>14425958
>>14425962
>>14425968
>>14428420
>>14428518
>last men who can't cope with people exercising their will to power

[Anonymous No.14429480]

>>14425976
There's no reason not to believe in a God. The only difference between atheists and theists is that the former can only accept that the universe was made by pure chance, while the theist finds it more likely that everything we experience is the final result of some greater entity's intelligent design.
Believing in God is a better and more fun way to live life, and it's merely the springboard into religion.

[Anonymous No.14429499]

>>14423970
>>14429155
Hi there!

You seem to have made a bit of a mistake in your post. Luckily, the users of 4chan are always willing to help you clear this problem right up! You appear to have used a tripcode when posting, but your identity has nothing at all to do with the conversation! Whoops! You should always remember to stop using your tripcode when the thread it was used for is gone, unless another one is started! Posting with a tripcode when it isn't necessary is poor form. You should always try to post anonymously, unless your identity is absolutely vital to the post that you're making!

Now, there's no need to thank me - I'm just doing my bit to help you get used to the anonymous image-board culture!