/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.14398146]

Do our best contemporary writers even hold up against the weakest canonical writers of the 20th century? Are Pynchon or DFW at all equal to even Huxley, Orwell or Hermann Hesse? From the reputation Pynchon and DFW have, I get the impression that their works are pretentious with no value. Maybe I will give Pynchon a chance some day since Bloom seems to have seen something in him. If we search hard enough through unpopular contemporary writers will we eventually find something good?

[Anonymous No.14398165]

>>14398146
what if we just appreciate art for what it is instead of trying determine who is better than whom?

[Anonymous No.14398175]

>>14398146
Bro don't tell me you think fucking orwell is good

[Anonymous No.14398178]

>>14398165
I am able to do that but the problem is that I haven't found a single contemporary author I like. There are only 4 contemporaries that get mentioned on /lit/ which are Pynchon, DFW, McCarthy and Houellebecq. I will try to give these people a chance, at least for a few pages/chapters, but the reputation and subject matter of these people just don't interest me.

[Anonymous No.14398185]

>>14398175
I didn't say he was good, retard. I said he was the among the weakest of the canonical 20th century writers. You're on a literature board and you can't fucking read? Kill yourself, retard.

[Anonymous No.14398400]

>>14398178
Don't read contemporary authors then. Its absolutley fine to not like what others like.

[Anonymous No.14398431]

>>14398146
I’d argue Pynchon, Dara, some of Wallace, some of DeLillo, and some Corncob beat the fuck out of several canonical authors from the 19th century.

[Anonymous No.14398448]

>>14398400
I already have unpopular tastes even among /lit/. I'm just sad that there's nobody alive that I look up to. It seems like every generation since the 17th century has had at least one great author, yet I have found no good book published after WW2.
There have been some good posts on here in the past about this. I can try to find them on Warosu if you'd like.
High level literacy, and reading as a hobby peaked late 19th, early 20th century and then dropped after the invention of television. It makes sense why great authors are non-existent in this era. Even if there were a truly great undiscovered author in the modern world, nobody would be interested in finding him.
I'm just sad, honestly.

[Anonymous No.14398455]

>>14398431
Give me a list. I will at least sample a few works.

[Anonymous No.14398478]

>>14398146
Stop making threads about authors you haven't read. And stop judging books after you've read just "a few pages or chapters". Finally, delete your anime frog folder and kys you dumb frogposter.

[Anonymous No.14398494]

>>14398146
>>14398185
>>14398178
>>14398448
It's fine to say "I don't like postmodern literature" but your attitude is supercilious. You haven't read a word of Pynchon/DFW (two of the most widely-known postmodern authors) and you have the cojones to say "I have found no good book published after WW2"? get out of here.

[Anonymous No.14398501]

>>14398478
>NOOOO YOU'RE ONLY ALLOWED TO JUDGE DFW AFTER YOU READ ALL 2000 PAGES OF INFINITE JEST!!!!!!
I can read one page of Virginia Woolf and recognize her great prose. You really think that someone has to read all of Infinite Jest before they can deem it as garbage?

[Anonymous No.14398519]

>>14398478
>>14398494
It's this type of behavior that make me think DFW and Pynchon are pretentious. You people have no argument.
I do still respect this anon >>14398431 and hope he comes back with recs though.

[Anonymous No.14398523]

>>14398146
Comparing post modern works to modernists seems unfair to me. At that point it’s just what you prefer in your writing, a self-aware sardonic work, or an archetypal, unabashed, wholesome one.

In terms of their technical ability, I’d pick Pynchon, or dfw over the modernists any day, but style is also a cornerstone of postmodernism so even that seems unfair.

[Anonymous No.14398600]

>>14398519
God, you're irritating. How old are you?
You don't need recs from that anon, you're (presumably) old enough to do your own research now. It is not difficult to find out which books are worth reading from an author.

[Anonymous No.14398614]

>>14398146
Why ask this question. Just fucking read them. I personally think they hold significant value and deserve their alleged spots in the literary canon. David Foster Wallace was a writer of our times in the same way other canonical writers were writers of their own time.

[Anonymous No.14398642]

>>14398501
Yes, you need to read a book before you can give a substantiated opinion of it.
No, you can't form a solid opinion a director's work because you've watched two minutes of one of his films.
No, you can't t say that you don't like broccoli if you've never tried it before.
This is not a hard concept to grasp you fucking idiot.

If you are reading a book and it's boring you to tears drop it and move on. Maybe if you have to give your opinion on it you can comment on what made you drop it, but at least you have some experience to back up your claim.

>>14398519
You will notice that I'm not defending DFW or Pynchon because I haven't read anything by them and therefore I can't form an opinion, you spastic.

By the way, nice reaction image, do you keep your wojaks in the same folder as your pepes? Or do you keep your meme folder all tidy and organized?

[Anonymous No.14398670]

>>14398642
We'll since uou use a food analogy, I'll use one too
If you make food that taste like shit, am I expected me to eat the whole thing before I tell you it's shit?

[Anonymous No.14398682]

>>14398501
Kek, have you even read one page of infinite jest anon?

This is also a retarded way to look at literature, treating all works like they should have the same approach to prose, not even accounting for how it should match the content and pacing.

[Anonymous No.14398696]

>>14398670
If I make you a plate of food you damn sure will finish the whole fucking thing because that's the polite thing to do.

Like wtf anon, I go to the trouble of cooking for you even though you are a worthless frogposting NEET and you don't even have the decency to finish the plate? Fuck you, you spoiled piece of shit.

[Anonymous No.14398699]

>>14398670
If you eat the olive off the top of a sandwich and say you hate the sandwich because you have an aversion to olives, can you really blame the sandwich?

Think through what you believe and if it truly matches what you’re saying anon.

[Anonymous No.14398724]

>>14398696
Fuck no I am not going to eat a plate of shit just because you worked hard on shitting out that turd
>>14398699
The olive is a unit in the sandwich, whenever I eat the sandwich the olive oil will be there and I shall taste it
Ergo I should stop eating a sandwich that tastes like the thing I hate

[Anonymous No.14398746]

>>14398724
So any work with a pleb filter is too much for you in other words. The olive is the pleb filter.

[Anonymous No.14398758]

>>14398670
I would expect you to at least try the thing before you decide that you don't like it. Then when asked why you don't like it you can tell me it's because you prefer your food with more feces on it.

[Anonymous No.14398765]

>>14398642
>>14398682
I am not going to read this. This is shouldn't even be considered literature. If I were gifted this book I would use the pages as toilet paper.
>>14398670
This anon is right.
>>14398696
Fuck you. Emerson and Nietzsche taught me that I don't have to respect you. You have sheep morality.

[Anonymous No.14398774]

>>14398765
>I am not going to read this.
Great.
Then don't post about it.

[Anonymous No.14398783]

>>14398746
BRO I soaked your sandwhich in LITERAL SHIT, It's suppossed to taste bad because it's LITERAL SHIT ahahahahaha I made a SHIT SANDWICH hahahahaha what, you mad bro? Hahahahahahahaha you fucking pleb I SOAKED that sandwich in LITERAL SHIT to filter you ahahahahahahah you fucking PLEB ahahaahaha can't eat a SHIT SANDWICH fucking PLEB hahahahaha

[Anonymous No.14398787]

>>14398774
Pretty much this, you’re in a thread comparing the merits of authors, half of which you refuse to read because you think you won’t like it. Is this a social experiment in irrationality, or pointlessness?

[Anonymous No.14398801]

>>14398783
Even the Iliad has an “olive” for contemporary readers in its catalogue of ships. Idk why you think that just because there’s an aspect of a work you don’t like, the entire works is worthless to you. It’s a very close minded way to look at the world.

[Anonymous No.14398803]

>>14398774
>>14398787
>I presume it's probably facilitate that the tennis coach mistook for accentuate, though accelerate, while clunkier than facilitate, is from a phonetic perspective more sensible, as a mistake. The Dean with the flat yellow face has leaned forward, his lips drawn back from his teeth in what I see as concern. His hands come together on the conference table's surface. His own fingers look like they mate as my own four-X series dissolves and I hold tight to the sides of my chair
Postmodernists think this is good prose.

[Anonymous No.14398810]

>These authors I've heard about seem pretentious, never read them though. Huh!
>shrugs

Nice contribution, stupid

[Anonymous No.14398818]

>>14398801
The ship catalogue was MADE FOR CONTEMPORARIES REATRD, IT'S THERE TO GRIP THEIR ATTENTION BY CALLING OUT THE NAME OF THE PLACE THEY'RE FROM

[Anonymous No.14398822]

>>14398803
It’s stream of consciousness, not all prose has to be romantic descriptions of scenery.

And yet again, this is literally the first page you’re judging a book by, might as well just use the cover at this point.

[Anonymous No.14398824]

>>14398801
That chapter wasn't even bad. Anybody who was upset by that chapter should kill themselves. That chapter was mostly dialogue with only two pages spent describing the actual catalogue of ships. Are people so impatient that they are unable to read through two pages where an army's catalogue of ships is described? I would rather read the catalogue of ships 20 times than read a chapter of IJ 1 time.
And tell me, when does Infinite Jest get good?

[Anonymous No.14398827]

>>14398165

[Anonymous No.14398832]

>>14398818
But it doesn’t move the plot and is dull, the same complaint this anon is making on the first page of IJ.

[Anonymous No.14398835]

>>14398822
>literally the first page
But it's literally not the first page, retard.

[Anonymous No.14398847]

>>14398824
Page 80 or so. I’m not defending infinite jest, I think it could remove 200 pages and be a better book. I’m just saying that it’s stupid to prejudge something you haven’t even properly tried. You have no excuse to skip his essays, short stories, or the works of Pynchon. The crying of lot 49 is like 150 pages, are you that ruined by technology?

[Anonymous No.14398851]

>>14398146
Pynchon is for sure miles better than the 3 you mentioned though. They are all very driven by a certain set of ideas, very myopic, especially Hesse. Pynchon, like Shakespeare, is able to convincingly portray a wide variety of ideas and perspectives. Stylistically, he is much better than any of them, though I don’t consider any of the three of them aesthetic writers, they are idea men. In Gravity’s Rainbow and Mason & Dixon he most closely follows behind Moby-Dick and Ulysses.

[Anonymous No.14398870]

>>14398835
Semantics, it’s in the first several pages of an incredibly long book. It’s the equivalent of judging the the sun also rises by the first paragraph.

[Anonymous No.14398879]

>>14398822
Stream of consciousness is good if the author is good. I enjoy Virginia Woolf. I am going to quote Bloom. "He can’t think, he can’t write. There’s no discernible talent." DFW's stream of consciousness is low quality because DFW's consciousness itself is low quality. I understand why he felt shame and I'm glad he killed himself.

[Anonymous No.14398885]

>>14398448
>yet I have found no good book published after WW2.
Read some more fucking books dude and maybe from some non-anglophone countries

[Anonymous No.14398888]

>>14398670
Food tastes the same bite after bite. Your opinion on a book can change and develop with every page.

[Anonymous No.14398893]

>>14398879
He’s an analytical thinker whereas Virginia is an emotional one. They’re very different types of writers, comparing them seems unfair and disorganized. Dfw is all about ideas and virginia is about manner and sensibility.

[Anonymous No.14398894]

>>14398885
Well, give recs. You contrarian faggots always have shit to talk, but no evidence to back it up.

[Anonymous No.14398896]

>>14398494
This

[Anonymous No.14398910]

>>14398879
>I am going to quote Bloom
Pretty fitting since you obviously have nothing to say because you haven't read the material. Do you know how Bloom came to the conclusion that DFW sucked? By reading his fucking books.

[Anonymous No.14398921]

>>14398910
Lol, forming an opinion based on someone else’s analysis is the definition of pedagogy and being a pseud.

[Anonymous No.14398923]

>>14398894
Bolaño and Calvino are both great postmodern reads. Idk if you've already decided that you hate them tho.

[Anonymous No.14398937]

OP, who are some of your favorite authors?

[Anonymous No.14398946]

>>14398910
>>14398921
>you haven't read the material
I have, and you would know this if you've actually read the thread. Continue attacking your strawman though, you postmodernist fanatics are only making yourselves look insane to any rational person who lurks this thread.
>>14398923
I'll check them out. I know enough Spanish and Italian that I should be able to read them.

[Anonymous No.14398954]

>>14398937
Homer, Goethe, Virginia Woolf, Ralph Waldo Emerson, Shakespeare, John Milton

[Anonymous No.14398959]

>>14398954
Huh, never read any of those, but they seem pretentious with no value.


Retard.

[Anonymous No.14398963]

>>14398959
>this is what postmodernists unironically believe

[Anonymous No.14398969]

>>14398501
>you expect someone to read something before criticizing it?
yes

[Anonymous No.14398970]

>>14398946
¿Por qué mientes anon? Ya has dicho arriba >>14398765 que te niegas a leer el libro

[Anonymous No.14398980]

>>14398894
Do you mean specifically postmodern or just post WWII?

[Anonymous No.14398985]

>>14398963
The irony of this post is exquisite

[Anonymous No.14398988]

>>14398670
>I ate boiled broccoli once and didn't like it therefore I can confidently say there is no possible way to cook broccoli well
cool analogy

[Anonymous No.14399004]

>>14398894
Borges published lots of books after 1945

[Anonymous No.14399011]

>>14399004
This plus a lot of his shit is either full-on pomo or a direct influence over the coming (post-modernist) generation.

[Anonymous No.14399018]

>>14398954
>comparing postmodernists to works that have been in the canon for centuries and millennia.

Have you considered that perhaps your bar is set too high? Compare Pynchon to Hemingway and you might have a fairer comparison of modernist vs postmodernist.

[Anonymous No.14399029]

>>14398946
>I know enough Spanish and Italian that I should be able to read them.
You know jack shit, who are you trying to fool?

[Sage in all fields No.14399062]

>mfw OP stops responding after he realizes how much of an idiot he is
OP, if you are reading this I really hope you kill yourself this Christmas.

[Anonymous No.14399071]

>>14398954
Read Umberto Eco, he's one of the greatest ever and was writing very good novels well into the 21st century. Start with Foucault's Pendulum and Name of the Rose

[Anonymous No.14399077]

>>14398146
Guys, I have come to the conclusion that OP is trolling. He's playing the "I'm a 'rational thinker' with elitist fascination for old works, yet no taste or original thought and I'm also underage with a vast overestimation of my intellect" role... Let's stop feeding him material.

[Anonymous No.14399099]

OP’s mask fell off and now he won’t respond.

[Anonymous No.14399204]

I didn't leave the thread you insecure zoomer faggots. Put your Dark Academia turtleneck back on, light another cigarette and order another coffee because you are not leaving the cyber cafe yet.
>>14398959
>>14398985
I know you were being sincere when you said you never read Homer. DFW never did either. I looked up the books that influenced him and was disgusted.
https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/109680.David_Foster_Wallace_s_Influences
No wonder his prose is shit when he reads this garbage. It's all philosophy and translated fiction.
I also noticed the people whom he influenced include John Green and Zadie Smith
>Among the writers who cite Wallace as an influence are Dave Eggers,[3] Zadie Smith,[4] Jonathan Franzen,[5] Elizabeth Wurtzel,[6] George Saunders,[7] Rivka Galchen, John Green,[8] Matthew Gallaway, David Gordon, Darin Strauss, Charles Yu, Porochista Khakpour,[9][10] and Deb Olin Unferth.[11]
I understand why starting with the Greeks is so important now. The people who aren't influenced by the Greeks are all terrible writers.
>>14399018
I guess you're right. I'm still sad that I have nobody to look up to.
>>14399062
>>14399077
>>14399099
You
>>14399071
Will look into it.
So far I have Borges, Eco, Calvino, and Bolaño. I'll skim through the thread again and see if I'm missing anybody.

[Anonymous No.14399213]

>>14399204
Nobody [alive] to look up to.
Just correcting myself.

[Anonymous No.14399223]

>>14399204
Nah m8 we're done with you
Go suck a fat dick and don't post shitty threada again please.

[Anonymous No.14399254]

@14399223(You)#
You.

[Anonymous No.14399456]

Bump. I'm just going to make another thread in three days where I insult DFW and you faggots are going to come back. Might as well drop your Dark Academia corduroy trousers and let me fuck you now.

[Anonymous No.14399528]

>>14399456
the first cumshot landed squarely on David Foster Wallace's bandana. He roared with indignation and seized forward to face his enemy, eyes blazing with New Sincerity. Harold Bloom stood smirking across the room, turkey gobbler waggling ever so slightly with satisfied amusement. The renowned fantasy author gripped his almost non-existent penis, and with a lightning quick yank sent another gob of spunk invigorated by the wisdom of the classics towards the younger writer. This time Wallace was prepared; he ducked, and placed his hand on his own shaft for a returning volley, but found himself insufficiently aroused. He quickly leafed through his mental arsenal for spank material and conjured the memory of himself hurling a chair at his ex-wife. With a now stiff dick, he launched a load of his own towards the fat man, who was caught off guard-
Pynchon stood up from his typewriter and retired for the night.

[Anonymous No.14399620]

aBump. Where is DFW burried anyway? I might go piss on his grave.

[Anonymous No.14399883]

Bump

[Anonymous No.14399914]

bump

[Anonymous No.14400125]

>>14398178
>>14398146
>>14398448

I'm only posting to say that I agree with every single thing which you've said in this thread, and that I am exactly the same way.

[Anonymous No.14400190]

>>14400125
I'm Op btw, and I'm gay if that matters

[Anonymous No.14400209]

>>14400190
I'm the guy who disagreed withOP earlier and I'm also gay. Want to make out?

[Anonymous No.14400560]

>>14398146
Clearly you haven’t read any of the authors you’re asking about. Why not shut the fuck up and read them before making the stupid comparison, shit frogposter

[Anonymous No.14400565]

>>14398448
Oh my god dude, literally shut the fuck up. Lurk more before posting garbage threads

[Anonymous No.14400601]

@14400560
@14400565
Cringe

[Anonymous No.14400701]

>>14399204
>nobody has responded to the fact that DFW is only influenced by translated philosophy and translated fiction
You guys don't even pretend.

[Anonymous No.14401413]

Bump

[Anonymous No.14402335]

>>14398448
Off the top of my head try Theodore Dalrymple he's pretty good but focuses on non-fiction.

[Anonymous No.14402981]

>>14398146
Pynchon wrote the book on Huxley and Orwell lol

[Anonymous No.14402994]

>>14398501
>2000 pages? I'd rather play fortnite daddy-o!

[Anonymous No.14403003]

>>14398803
DFW isn't post modernism and nobody considers him a prose stylist you dumb pseud

[Anonymous No.14403030]

>>14399204
Based schizo