/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.14387270]

ok lit, why is the modern man's realization a professional one? Has it always been like this? cant i just be a fuck up neet? what makes office slave Nº4251 better than a homeless drunkard?
should one just follow whatever and find joy in the "struggle"
what the fuck?
zizek pic to bait u into reading

[Anonymous No.14387273]

i fuk at least every 2 hours

[Anonymous No.14387282]

>>14387270

[Anonymous No.14387283]

>>14387273
Misusing sex for fun sends you to hell.

[Anonymous No.14387289]

>>14387282
i have a job, unironically for a bit

[Anonymous No.14387290]

>>14387283
god isnt real

[Anonymous No.14387294]

>>14387270
>Has it always been like this?
havepeople ever not needed to eat/stay safe/remain in a favorable position societally?
follow joy, obv, but you can't follow shit if youre broke, unreliable, stinking and looked down upon
freedom is about options. rejecting society is essentially throwing five hundred thousand options out so you can have some weird form of 'dignity'

[Anonymous No.14387309]

>>14387270
Your work is where you make partners and enemies, it is where you test and push your limits, and it is where you specialize yourself, and contribute to others what noone else can, it is where you earn the exercise of just power and authority.

Imo this always has and always will be the case regardless of economic system. "Work" is the total of your daily efforts. Specialization and devotion to one or another form of work allows you to achieve greater skill and impact than unspecialized work. If you wanted to devote yourself to the struggle of a bum, that could be your "work", but that is a very unstable idea, and without a social occupational structure surrounding it there would be only you to uphold the rules of the game and reward proper play. Being an individualist is always harder. But I don't think it is an invalid path should you heed it proper.

[Anonymous No.14387315]

>>14387294
but i bet that 90% of people redefine their expectations and set themselves up a place within their new boundaries in their social space. isnt this a system set for overall misery, that generates the need for a detachment from material aspirations?

[Anonymous No.14387319]

>>14387290
yeah but hell is

[Anonymous No.14387329]

>>14387309
>and contribute to others what noone else can
lost me here, modern work breaks the individual as much as possible, tho you make a valid point as far as one should seek proper specialization, wich is more relatable

[Anonymous No.14387345]

>>14387315
but you've predecided that the greatest woe of all time here is "resetting your expectations."
I really don't want to be insulting but I think your suffering from a sort of 'cold-pool' phenomenon, which is to say you are seeing something from the outside and are really REALLY terrified of the obvious horror (like a cold pool) but if you would just jump in you'd realize it's not really that big of a deal.
I wanted to be an animator, I learned that career was hopeless, limited and unpredictable. I shifted to law. my change in expectation has allowed me to appreciate my loved ones, read more, and take up more interests because I am expecting more reasonable things. my friends who still want to be artists struggle every day with the same expectations theyve had forever.
humans are creatures of limitation. learn to live with them instead of fighting and denying them everywhere you go

[Anonymous No.14387373]

>>14387345
>but you've predecided that the greatest woe of all time here is "resetting your expectations."
but unironically the most common phase in ones maturity is redeeming ones ego, learning to live a normal life, turning the other cheek to the perverse appeal of misery and struggle as a way to justify your "failure" while still relating to our failed ideal.

[Anonymous No.14387415]

>>14387373
but my response is encapsulated in your employment of the phrase "most common phase"
this tragic thing your speaking of is mundane. so mundane in fact it's ubiquitous and now almost necesary to attain higher levels of a social hierarchy.
in Dreams in a Time of War, by Ngugi Wa'Thiongo there is a chater where he talks about undergoing ritual circumcision at age fifteen. what we're talking about is a lot like this. humans, if they are to be of any merit, must earn said merit through trial/suffering/toil/shame/etc.
anything good you can hope to gain from life must be won through suffering so embrace your suffering- with awareness you can rise above it

[Anonymous No.14387441]

>>14387415
>humans, if they are to be of any merit, must earn said merit through trial/suffering/toil/shame/etc.
but you understand how priorities are being resettled by early awareness of ones limitations regarding the possibility of social climbing

>this tragic thing your speaking of is mundane. so mundane in fact it's ubiquitous and now almost necesary to attain higher levels of a social hierarchy.
im not talking about realization and its relativity to the struggle to get there. the thing is why should one even aspire to be a part of said social hierarchy, when its evident that the most common case is people disenfranchizing from said system and forming their identity on antagonisms to said structure

[Anonymous No.14387475]

>>14387441
>but you understand how priorities are being resettled by early awareness of ones limitations regarding the possibility of social climbing
I would cast a lot of doubt at the 'early awareness' part of this. I don't believe life is something understood through books/movies/at a distance, it must be experienced. you can't tell me your limits until youve visited them and tested them- which in turn is a benefit to your soul as a limit-tester-potentially-breaker

>the thing is why should one even aspire to be a part of said social hierarchy, when its evident that the most common case is people disenfranchizing from said system and forming their identity on antagonisms to said structure
but I think these 'most common cases' are only common in place/time where they are enabled to be pseudo-disenfranchized. I don't think the disenfranchisement of some burnout (while still severe) is as committed and consequential as it would be if this person were burning out somewhere on the periphery of this neo-liberal-capital-bubble. I still think, if you are basing a lot of this belief of yours on an understanding of what is very common in average people, you should broaden your scope and consider that maybe these people are a privileged minority

[Anonymous No.14387500]

>>14387415
you sound like you had a traumatic upbringing

[Anonymous No.14387542]

>>14387475
>you can't tell me your limits until youve visited them and tested them- which in turn is a benefit to your soul as a limit-tester-potentially-breaker
but even here you fall into the pit of subjectivizing experience and thus breaking from established social positions or goals as they ultimately are
> you should broaden your scope and consider that maybe these people are a privileged minority
well, my sight may be reduced to a certain fraction of people, but even then, it doesnt have to be as fast or inmediate as a "burnout", but more like a constant coping mechanism regarding ones place in the hierarchies wich only brings misery and resentment, be it low class, or high

[Anonymous No.14387617]

>>14387542
>first point
?
Experience is subjective? You’ve lost me here man
>the second point
The best “coping mechanism” is just succeeding within a bit of compromise. Life is a shit for everyone- ennui is a better burden than disease/poverty

[Anonymous No.14387634]

>>14387542
>>14387617
Sorry, but to be clear:
When I say “experience is subjective?” I’m being somewhat glib: experience IS subjective- it’s subjectivity doesn’t effect the unity of its impact on the human soul- this is why all various unexplainable things called experience can be referred to as experience

[Anonymous No.14387645]

>>14387500
I mean, I wasn’t circumcised at fifteen, it was a book I read

[Anonymous No.14387650]

>>14387617
regarding the first point
i meant that everyone falls into a need of deataching and reassuring one's own subjective experience as the prime one, but then again, it survives as far as the antagonist it refutes lives as well
>second point
second point falls right into the first one's dynamic. ideal>failure>resettlement>melancholy

[Anonymous No.14387651]

>>14387270
This entire post reads like a cope, the type stoners would launch into in high school; the world doesn't care if you're a failure. Try to enjoy yourself, but you won't.

[Anonymous No.14387672]

>>14387651
were talking about pride and "goals"
but youre right about enjoying oneself, but before that some steps have to be taken, or some realizations have to be made, or it would fall into a melancholic cope

[Anonymous No.14387705]

>>14387650
But we keep ending back at the same point because you’re not acknowledging that I keep saying we’re essenially talking about the same thing. With different levels of accepted severity

Tl;dr the failure after ideal doesn’t require too much resettlement and hardly any melancholy desu

[Anonymous No.14387712]

>>14387309
The problem is with how work is, essentially, fungible for a large class of laborers. Only a few technicians can distinguish themselves as products to the eyes of employers.

[Anonymous No.14388521]

>>14387270
Hi Bukowski, how's it going?

[Anonymous No.14388595]

Capitalism has perverted the protestant work ethic and republican tradition that viewed owning property and plying a trade as imparting home truths, self-reliance and breeding responsible citizens. Now it's a careerism where you're inured to wage slavery for mr shekelstein who forces you to attend diversity seminars while you live in a diverse, soulless, crime-ridden neighborhood of the city you're required to "live" in

[Anonymous No.14388862]

>>14387415
>anything good you can hope to gain from life must be won through suffering

There are no arguments for this.

[Anonymous No.14388976]

>>14387712
We no longer specialise how we used to with the rise of computing. Too much of the software is too removed from common sense interfaces.

[Anonymous No.14388985]

>>14387415
What if you inherit it all?

[Anonymous No.14389778]

>>14388862
what about respect? it serves as a benefit in terms of social mobiity and it can't be had for nothing?
>>14388985
see point above: you can't inhereit everything
granted there are obvious benefits to being given wealth, doesn't change that wealth can't provide for non-physical things

[Anonymous No.14389930]

>>14389778
At least in the US most people are suffering for
the basic physical stuff--health care, housing,
food. It's one thing to say one must suffer
for the good life, and another to say you
must suffer for basic dignity.