[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/lit/ - Literature

View post   
File: 836 KB, 647x656, 4b017d90c085aaeeceeb12956fb5dfcb.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14386214 No.14386214 [Reply] [Original]

What is the Gnostic/Neoplatonistic/Mithraic position on Sex? I've been talking to a cute girl for the first time in my life and I don't want to do anything with her that could jeopardize my (or her) salvation. How would one go about explaining this to her?

>> No.14386230

>>14386214
Read Plotinus, Nag Hammadi, Damascius, Proclus, Iamblichus, Origen and Pseudo Denys instead of asking some retard here.

>> No.14386233

>>14386230
He's a retard himself, so it doesn't hurt to watch retards to talk with each other.

>> No.14386234

>>14386214
It's evil, like all worldly pleasures.

Next question?

>> No.14386242

>>14386230
I'm seeing her today and I do not want to make it any more awkward than necessary.

So I don't have the time to read all of those works right now...

>>14386234
But is there no higher dimension to it, so to speak?

>> No.14386273

>>14386214
Hell is a catholic heresy fool.

Nonetheless, just don't waste your seed.

>> No.14386288

>>14386273
Are you saying it's fine if I don't cum? That seems wrong and degenerate, anon...

>> No.14386304

>>14386242
Nope.

It's evil, simple as.

As for saving her soul, consider Thomas 114:

>Simon Peter said to them, "Make Mary leave us, for females don't deserve life."
>Jesus said, "Look, I will guide her to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every female who makes herself male will enter the kingdom of Heaven."

>> No.14386538

>>14386234
>the means of procreation is evil
retard

>> No.14386590

>>14386538
Yes because this world and life are evil inherently. All duality is cyclical, pointless and evil.

>> No.14386643

>>14386590
if existence is evil then nothing you can do is good, making evil an irrelevant distinction

>> No.14386675

>>14386643
No because we don't come from here, our true souls are beyond material existence. Existence is an imperfect simulation of the true Reality and it has some recollection of it, since everything comes from God and all roads lead back to him in the end. Our true selves are good and were created to serve God, every semblance of good in the world comes from our connection to God.

>> No.14387258

>>14386214
Stop being a consumerist shill and lose your virginity. Then redpill her on religion and marry her.

>> No.14387369

>>14386590
What about triality? evil squared?

>> No.14387476

>>14386230
Literally this fpbp.

Don't take anything you see on /lit/ seriously except for recommendations, nobody here has actually read anything and even if they did they still wouldn't know what they're talking about

>> No.14387488

>>14386214
>How would one go about explaining this to her?
bump to this question.

>> No.14387618

>>14386675
what you are saying is all a leap of faith
human senses cant detect whether this is true or not
cant say you are wrong or right so again what gravity does your statements have beyond imagining

>> No.14387661
File: 40 KB, 864x810, 6caac6b28f89cafef52b72b535ff36b3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14387661

>>14387618
>human senses cant detect whether this is true or not
says whom?

>> No.14387667

>>14386643
You could always die

>> No.14387676

>>14386675
>the good essence of God turned mutable and evil
>the world of Forms after which the evil world is modelled is somehow good

>> No.14387915

>>14387661
for fun do a quick breakdown of the claims you made:
> we don't come from here
>our true souls are beyond material existence. >Existence is an imperfect simulation of the true Reality
>everything comes from God and all roads lead back to him in the end.
>Our true selves are good and were created to serve God
>every semblance of good in the world comes from our connection to God.
that is ALOT of claims
with what sense can we determine whether any of this is true or not
it would take too much effort to refute all of this, as does all claims made from the creative will alone, but in short, I can't sense any of this phenomenally and if I do a deep dive, it doesn't hold up rationally either
so if I can't detect any of this through my own tools, I can only assume you acquired these beliefs by some cultural and social method that I wasn't exposed to

>> No.14387934

>>14387915
Gnosticism is retarded, but if you're invoking positivism to refute it, you may also be retarded

>> No.14388768

>>14387934
Is it really ratarded if you think about it? It describes Christ as an enlightened figure who ascended & became somewhat "phantomic" in nature, even when he went onto the cross he was standing there and talking. Some pretty weird stuff. This coincides perfectly with the historic accounts and with the greater narrative of the faith.

>> No.14388769

>>14386214
take a wild guess

>> No.14388771

>>14386230
pseudo dionysius is boring, read john scotus eriugena's books instead.

>> No.14388832

>>14386214
If you're a Valentinian then you are pro-sex and use it to attain heightened Tantric states wherein you embody Christ and your partner Sophia (this is Shiva and Shakti with a Western spin)
If you are a Naassene then you prohibit all sex between men and women and edge with your Gnostic bros to attain alchemical transmutation of your generative powers

>> No.14388839

If you are a Borborite you swallow thick loads of daddy's cummies

>> No.14388947

>>14387676
God is infinite and perfect but we're all finite and imperfect, including the demigods.

>> No.14388966

>>14387915
This is just arrogance and laziness. No one can show you and no one should be able to because seeing is the test, you have to experience it yourself. You need virtue to see the truth, to devote yourself to the truth and virtuousness and pray for a revelation. All revelations of truth are granted by the grace of God, we can only come to know Him by His mercy, but we also have to reach out and meet him halfway. It's all a catch 22 in a way, you need to look for God to find Him, you need to be virtuous to act virtuously, but you have free will so you can choose either side spontaneously at any time you want.

>> No.14388979

>>14388832
>wherein you embody Christ and your partner Sophia (this is Shiva and Shakti with a Western spin)
OP here. Anything I can read about this specifically? Sounds like something I could explain to her relatively easily.

I'm watching the Plotinus Enneades videos someone posted around these threads so that is my low-level of knowledge right now.

>> No.14388995

>>14388979
>They maintain, therefore, that in every way it is always necessary for them to practise the mystery of conjunction. And that they may persuade the thoughtless to believe this, they are in the habit of using these very words, Whosoever being in this world does not so love a woman as to obtain possession of her, is not of the truth, nor shall attain to the truth. But whosoever being of this world has intercourse with woman, shall not attain to the truth, because he has so acted under the power of concupiscence. On this account, they tell us that it is necessary for us whom they call animal men, and describe as being of the world, to practise continence and good works, that by this means we may attain at length to the intermediate habitation, but that to them who are called the spiritual and perfect such a course of conduct is not at all necessary. For it is not conduct of any kind which leads into the Pleroma, but the seed sent forth thence in a feeble, immature state, and here brought to perfection.
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103106.htm
The more you read of Valentinus the more you think he must've studied Tantra rather deeply.

>> No.14389000

>>14388979
>coping this hard to find any excuse for pleasure
AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH IMM COOOOOOOOOOOOMING
I HAVE TO COOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM UUUUUUUUUUHGGHGHGHGHGH

You made this thread so you have enough intuition to know that it's wrong, stop coping and give this world up. The spirit is genderless and whole, it doesn't need an other other than God. Don't treat the word of some ancient coomer as gospel just because it fits what you want.

>> No.14389022

>>14389000
You would like these guys https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naassenes

>> No.14389081
File: 152 KB, 958x795, 1576925586044.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14389081

>>14388832
>If you are a Naassene then you prohibit all sex between men and women and edge with your Gnostic bros
>only between men and women
>edge with your bros
I see what you did there anon...

>> No.14389088

>>14389081
mutual masturbation isn't gay though? at least neoplatobically speaking.

>> No.14389099

>>14389081
holy reddit

>> No.14389138

>>14388832
>>14389081
>>14389088
How do I get initiated into your group?

>> No.14390289

>>14389081
I said what I said.

>> No.14391117

Is Valentinianism the only based, non-homosexual branch of Gnosticism?
Also what's the point of Gnostic antinatalism nowadays? Literally 75% of modern women already agree with not having kids.

>> No.14391170

>>14386214
>Epiphanius claims that the Borborites were inspired by Sethianism and that elements of sexual sacramentalism formed an important role in their rituals. He asserts that the Borborites engaged in a version of the eucharist in which they would smear their hands with menstrual blood and semen and consume them as the blood and body of Christ respectively. He also alleges that, whenever one of the women in their church was experiencing her monthly period, they would take her menstrual blood and everyone in the church would eat it as part of a sacred ritual. The Borborites were also said to extract fetuses from pregnant women and consume them, particularly if the women accidentally became pregnant during related sexual rituals.

>The Carpocratian doctrine is one of nonresistance to the creator of this world of darkness, from which Jesus has come to deliver man, to restore him to the light of the heavenly Father. According to them, the omission of sins brings about the reincarnation of the soul, required by the creator of this world, until that soul has consummated all its guilt. Crime is a tribute paid to life, they say, a tribute demanded by the creator of this life. It is necessary, then, that the soul deliver itself over to sin as soon as temptation presents itself, lest it be delivered over to the judge (the evil God, creator of this world) who will cast it into prison—into a new body—until it has paid all its debts, to the uttermost farthing. For them, the Gospel teaches men how one has to render to the light what belongs to the light by giving to darkness what belongs to darkness.

>> No.14391184

>>14386230
How about you tell us what you learned, o wise one?

>> No.14391197

>>14388995
all these opinions make me think spirituality is bullshit

>> No.14391212

>>14391197
They were agreed that semen had special spiritual properties as a vehicle for the Logos, but disagreed on whether to retain it, swallow it, or spurt it. Sort of like Thelema nowadays.

>> No.14391225

>>14391212
it makes a baby which carries who you are on. some would say this has the upmost importance due to the immortality and continunation of the soul, others would say retaining from sex frees the soul. personally, i'm more on the latter although i have started to think that maybe the right people should have children, so their soul lives on.

>> No.14391226
File: 57 KB, 1214x265, Screen Shot 2019-12-21 at 1.28.34 PM.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14391226

>>14391170
>ywn be bullied by libertine Gnostics

>> No.14391235

>>14386214
Fuck off LARP'er
>>14386242
>But is there no higher dimension to it, so to speak?
NO
You're a horny little insecure faggot who got religion because you couldn't get laid, and yet you were still too fucking stupid to actually know even the most basic thing about something you profess to believe in?
kys you fucking vapid cunt

>> No.14391953

>>14391212
As in swallow their own semen? sounds gay.

>> No.14392430

>>14386214
just keep in mind that the demiurge is watching you doing it. other than that, have fun.

>> No.14392885

>>14391953
Is it gay if you mix it with vagina juice first?

>> No.14393643

>>14392430
let him watch how they liberate themselves form his grasp by using tantric magic.

>> No.14394552

>>14392885
I will try it with my sister and report back. I hope gnostic though is fine with me doing this.

>> No.14394626

>>14386214
It's bad. The hyletic or layperson might be excused for it, because they don't / can't know any better, and trying to keep them from having sex would be like trying to teach a dog to read (they would receive no benefit from it anyway).

If you need to struggle against its temptations, you're probably wasting your time with an insincere aestheticism. The one who's ready to leave the ogdoad will simply lose interest in it.

>> No.14394903

>>14391225
>makes a baby
Which is evil according to most modern thinking.

>> No.14395039

>>14394903
>Salome saith: Until when shall men continue to die? ...the Lord makes an answer: So long as women bear children.

>> No.14395379

>>14395039
Based

>> No.14395495
File: 13 KB, 289x114, no.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14395495

>>14386214
>Gnostic/Neoplatonistic

>> No.14395729

>>14395495
Both derive from the same perennialistic primordial tradition.

>> No.14396365

>>14394626
>If you need to struggle against its temptations, you're probably wasting your time with an insincere aestheticism. The one who's ready to leave the ogdoad will simply lose interest in it.

high iq. the more its some dramatic inner struggle, the more you're in its clutches

>> No.14396471

>>14394626
You can realize what it is and lose interest but that won't stop the body from doing what it does, it will still get aroused. Do you think we have to live out multiple lives in sin and "get it out of our system" before becoming enlightened? What's the point and the meaning in virtue and enlightenment if it's all just deterministic and inevitable? Doesn't it have to be a struggle and a sacrifice necessarily for it to be real?

>> No.14396532

>>14396471
you're both right but it is possible to be so disinterested it trickles down into your physiological responses, at least for a time. the mind will lead the body

>> No.14396711
File: 174 KB, 678x798, plotonos.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14396711

>>14395729
Yes, the gnostics were derivative, uninspired, more separatist than protestants, hodge podge soup of cherrypicked religious elements from all over—personality cults, each generation with their own disassociated "prophet".
Guess how you know when a new group/philosopher is wrong? Their thought can't be derived from myths and oracles predating them, you can't draw a golden chain of sages each building upon the work of their fathers. The true Tradition is an exegetically unfinished statue, through the ages inspiration has chipped away confusion; the great majority of mythologies of history praise the makers of the world, Gnostics damn him. You accuse him of placing you here, when your own soul willingly leaped down here.

Valentinus literally just made shit up just because he didn't become bishop; a megalomaniac.
And the other Gnostics were just metaphysically retarded (as shown by Plotinus), no understanding of ontology at all.

>> No.14396794

>>14396711
Or, every tradition that has been allowed to last is a collection of lies and half-truths co-opted by the archons and the truth can only be intimated in private primordial revelations.

>> No.14396851
File: 1.61 MB, 1293x1293, 1531114945660.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14396851

>>14396711

"Tradition"

>> No.14396988

>>14396711
>Valentinus literally just made shit up
Demonstrably false as he traced lineage to Theudas and the Ophite gnosis, which is demonstrably a continuation of a pre-Christian underground stream, as shown by Philo's anticipating the major tenets of Kabbalah.
Plotinus was more similar to the Gnostics than he was different, but did not want to admit that his doctrine of the evil inherent in matter naturally led to their conclusions.

>> No.14397137

>>14396711
non-dualism is a crock, Plotinus was so far in the gnostic closet he might as well have lived in Narnia

>> No.14397522

>>14396988
>>14397137
>the virgin neoplatonist vs The Chad Gnostic