[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/lit/ - Literature

View post   
File: 135 KB, 600x450, 1291573643672.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1438235 No.1438235 [Reply] [Original]

Should I learn Spanish?
Should I learn Latin?
If so what kind? (Classical/Medieval/Vulgar/Renaissance)
Or should I do a Churchill and make English my bitch?
I am 18/m.

pic related:never got that far with a girl.

>> No.1438239

You should waste your life on 4chan. No need to learn another language.

>> No.1438243

Learn bodylanguage

>> No.1438251

>>1438235
>Should I learn Spanish?
Protip: You don't need a reason to learn something.
Protip 2: Learning a language it's actually, fun.

>> No.1438253

>>1438251
I want to learn so many things, obviously not at the same time. Which language should I focus on is what I'm actually asking.

>> No.1438270

Learning Spanish will help you learn Latin
and vice-versa
but Spanish is a language in which you'll actually be able to speak to people.

I speak Spanish. I love it. If I ever learn Latin, it'll be the modern descendant of Vulgar Latin, which we now call "Italian." I learn foreign languages because I want to speak to people.

>> No.1438280

You should stop posting this pic of M2K on 4chan.
Learn Spanish

>> No.1438286

aprende español!
es uno de los idiomas más hablados sobre la tierra!!!!!!

>> No.1438287

>>1438280
Who or what is M2K?

Nobody has gone with English?

>> No.1438290

>>1438287
You already speak English.
Obviously, you always want to work to improve your ability to speak every language you ever learn, including your native language, but that shouldn't stop you from learning a new language. I'm >>1438270 and my efforts to continually improve both my English and Spanish haven't stopped me from starting on French.

>> No.1438308

>>1438290
True. But Winston Churchill himself said that the reason he was so good at English was because he failed hard at Latin and Ancient Greek, and had to do English for the rest of the time he was at school. He became a master and not a jack. It is an option.

>> No.1438317

Start with Latin, use it to learn all romantic languages.

Now you are officially a badass.

>> No.1438320

>>1438317
which one?

>> No.1438322

>>1438320
Ah shit.. i dunno. Whichever one the pirated Rosetta Stone software teaches.

Or Classical.

>> No.1438323

I'll be your Latin buddy.

>> No.1438326

>>1438320
>>1438320
classical or you'll regret it

sounds sort of closed-minded yet it'll be true if you fail to consider my admonishing

>> No.1438330
File: 57 KB, 220x278, FuckYourShit.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1438330

Ah, the joys of Latin...

>> No.1438335

If you learn Latin use the Lingua Latina Per Se Illustrata series. It's a Latin immersion course - teaches you Latin through Latin. The textbook is entirely in Latin, starting with very simple sentences and pictures. At the end of each chapter are some explanations of grammar concepts (explained in Latin) and some exercises. By the end of the series you're reading unadapted Latin excerpts from Classical authors, never having used your native language once.

The whole point is that you learn to read fluently. Most Latin courses teach you to pick apart each word in a sentence, figure out the declensions, decide the part of speech of everything, and then translate it in your head into English. That's not ideal.

There is a supplement available with explanations for certain things in English (or whatever your native language is). It also contains a pronunciation guide.

Plus, Latin gets you laid.

>> No.1438336

>>1438326
Yeah, I don't want to learn something then find out that there's barely anything I can use it on/with.

>> No.1438338

>>1438335
Not OP, but thank you anon! I have been wanting to find a good Latin text book for a while.

Captcha: gothici victim

>> No.1438357

>>1438335
/thread

>> No.1438361

>>1438335
That is really awesome. Are there similar resources for other languages that you are aware of? Learning a language by reading it is a lot more fun than learning all the grammar concepts in English in a classroom.

>> No.1438372

>>1438361
I've looked around a little but there's nothing I'm aware of. Latin works particularly well for this because, as used in the literature of the Classical period, rules were very strict and the language was very regular.

There are some forums around devoted to the Latina Lingua series, and every once in a while people ask if there are similar books for other languages. Someone said once that one was being prepared for a Romance language (Italian or Spanish, I think) but I can't remember the title and it wasn't supposed to be finished until around late this year or early next year.

Good luck! Latin's a lot of fun, especially when you get to start reading and writing real Latin from page 1.

>> No.1438376
File: 55 KB, 453x604, n1236870206_30373878_2146.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1438376

Wheelock's Latin, supplemented by Edith Hamilton's Mythology and by A History of the Roman People (ed. Ward, Heichelheim, Yeo).

Read Cicero and Vergil thereafter.

Kick ass and take names.

>> No.1438383

Learn Classical Latin. Renaissance Latin was very good, and in many cases is more skillful and beautiful than Classical Latin, but start with Classical Latin because you'll be able to appreciate the talent of the Renaissance authors better. Plus, there's tons of great stuff you should be reading in the Classical eras.

>> No.1438386

It depends: would you rather seduce hot Latina girls or read Cicero all day?

>> No.1438392

>>1438335
Meh, its faster to learn a language through non-immersive means if you're no longer a child. That being said, to build reading proficiency you do have to do some actual reading, but you can pick it up faster and learn it better without immersion. As an adult even an immersion course won't cause your brain to learn it like a first language, those pathways have already been built, the only way to learn a language is as a second language which is a separate part of the brain.

>> No.1438393

>>1438386
Can I not do both?
At the same time?

>> No.1438421
File: 15 KB, 216x377, 1280289289039.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1438421

>>1438392

>BOO HOO I'm retarded.

>> No.1438502

>>1438393
>implying you seduce women in the languages you are already fluent in.

>> No.1438522

>>1438392
It might be "faster" this way, but the end result is not the same. One way you learn to fluently read a sentence, from beginning to end, without translating to English in your head. The other way you have to parse each verb, noun, participle and conjunction, sifting through the sentence for information like cat-shit in a litter box.

If learning Latin super fast for a class or something, Wheelock or some other grammar-type book might do it for you. If you want to enjoy the experience of reading and understanding Latin, go with Lingua Latina.

>> No.1438535

>>1438522
First of all there is no such thing as reading "fluently", fluency relates to ease of expression not comprehension.

Second, you cannot learn a second language that way, to actually parse it without the filter of your first language, the brain just doesn't adapt to new language like that after adolescence.

>> No.1438545

>>1438535
Wrong on both counts. Please play again.

You must be monolingual? Do you know anyone who has learned a second language? Do you know any immigrants in your country?

Your ignorance astounds me.

>> No.1438560

>>1438545
>Wrong on both counts.
The easiest to prove is the first, please consult a dictionary, then have fun eating all that crow.
As to the second, there have been plenty of studies on the matter, feel free to use a library sometime.

>You must be monolingual?
And you don't know what the difference between a question and a statement do you? Also I speak about 2 1/2 second languages.

>Do you know anyone who has learned a second language? Do you know any immigrants in your country?
Yes and yes, and I have seen no evidence to support your little thesis.

>Your ignorance astounds me.
As yours does me.

>> No.1438566

inb4 two faggots raging

>> No.1438571

>>1438560
Have you ever seen someone stutter over a word while reading? Or do the sound-it-out approach for an unfamiliar word? That person is not reading fluently.

To quote Wikipedia (you can follow their reference to more academic source):
>In the sense of proficiency, "fluency" encompasses a number of related but separable skills:
>Reading: the ability to easily read and understand texts written in the language

There have been plenty of studies indicating that, after one's youth, language learning is more difficult. There has been nothing to indicate that such learning is impossible. Most studies show that the only real indicator of learning effectiveness is hours spent immersed in the target language. This would indicate that an immersion program is more effective than a "grammar rules and vocab lists" approach.

Do you really think all the immigrants around you hear what you say, translate it into their native tongue, craft a response in their native language, translate that into your language, and speak it out loud? Or do you think it's more likely that they skip the translation step?

>> No.1438574

>>1438566
lol'd

>> No.1438576

>>1438235
Did Latin GCSE, funky language, but hard as fuck. Make sure you're seriously awesome about the English language before you attempt it.

>> No.1438577

>>1438560
>Also I speak about 2 1/2 second languages.
This is like saying, "I am 12 and 3/4 years old."

>> No.1438579

>>1438571
>To quote Wikipedia (you can follow their reference to more academic source):
You mean the academic source that is a blog?

How about we side with the Oxford English Dictionary?
> Ready in the use of words, able to express oneself readily and easily in speech or writing.

>Most studies show that the only real indicator of learning effectiveness is hours spent immersed in the target language.
"learning effectiveness" what does that rubric entail? Not trying to be a smart ass, just honestly don't know.

>Do you really think all the immigrants around you hear what you say, translate it into their native tongue, craft a response in their native language, translate that into your language, and speak it out loud? Or do you think it's more likely that they skip the translation step?
I've met a lot of immigrants with various levels of language proficiency. I'd say that those who can speak excellent english have moved past that stage, however that stage is a fundamental part of how we learn a new language. We conceptualize linguistically, until we have a new complete (or really just robust) language set up all we have is just tatters and we cannot conceptualize. Eventually practice makes it recognition easier as it does for all things, but your deluding yourself if you think you can learn a new language untainted by translation.

>> No.1438581

>>1438577
Hey, my ancient Greek is a little shabby still it would be disingenuous to claim proficiency in it.

>> No.1438584

>>1438576
So you would suggest being a badass at English, then focus on a foreign language?


captcha:undlees much

>> No.1438587

>>1438579
Type "fluency" into Google and most of the front page is links about "reading fluency." Enjoy your edification.

>> No.1438591

>>1438587
try typing in define:fluent into google, enjoy your not appealing to the hoi polloi

>> No.1438592

>>1438591
>the hoi polloi

lol @ you

>> No.1438593

>>1438579
One of the currently popular theories of language acquisition is statistical learning. You hear (or read) a lot of words and your brain parses and pieces together the bits you need to understand phrases and form sentences of your own. Connectionist models underly most of these theories.

Learning rules and grammar in your own language is like scaffolding, or maybe a mold into which you will pour clay. Unfortunately, that scaffolding is sometimes not capable of sustaining the growing structure. Some concepts or ideas in one language can't be easily translated to another.

So, like the comment that started this thread said, if you want to "learn fast" as in be able to translate what you see into your native language, learn all the rules and grammar you want. If you want to be fluent (reading, writing, speaking, or listening), you should spend as much time with your target language as possible.

>> No.1438594

>>1438591
>define:fluency

>Fluency describes the act of reading without hesitancy, by recognising words and accurately connecting text.

>he ability to read words or larger language units in a limited time interval - freedom from word decoding problems that might hinder comprehension in silent or oral reading

I'm glad we're finally in agreement.

>> No.1438598

>>1438584
Only speak Latin. Knowing the English language and fully understanding grammar and shit will help a lot.

>> No.1438600

>>1438594
I like how you passed over a bunch of legitimate definitions to cite the one from the State government of Victoria Australia's arbitrary definition for some bureaucratic purpose or another.

Try again, I'll just be sitting here waiting.

>> No.1438604

>>1438600
Google Scholar - "reading fluency"
>9,770 results

Google Scholar - reading fluency
>82,000 results

>> No.1438606

>>1438600
It's like some words have multiple definitions or something! Especially scientific concepts that are operationally defined in journal articles!

>> No.1438610

>>1438604
Google Scholar "fluency" -reading
106,000

>> No.1438620

Google Scholar - 1
10,100,000

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I WIN YOU FAGGOTS BEAT THAT YOU STUPID MOTHERFUCKERS BEAT THAT
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>> No.1438975

1. Make English your tawdry whore.
2. Write great things.
3. ???
4. Perhaps actual profit from book sales.

>> No.1439174

>>1438361

Latin:

http://latinum.mypodcast.com/
It's free, it's reasonably well done. Get a Latin-English dictionary and translate the Iliad while you're at it. Latin improves reasonably well, forget which version Latinum does.


The American government releases their materials as open source, so http://fsi-language-courses.org/Content.php is an excellent resource for learning languages. If you like drill type learning, and are ok with something written around the time Vietnam was a big issue.

When learning a language, try focusing on it before learning another, especially on related languages.

>> No.1439180

>>1439174
> latin-english dictionary
> translate the Iliad

you have no fucking clue what you are talking about

>> No.1439195

>>1439174
>It's free, it's reasonably well done. Get a Latin-English dictionary and translate the Iliad while you're at it. Latin improves reasonably well, forget which version Latinum does.

lolllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

>> No.1439209

>>1439180
Idea was to insert important book, figured they'd either get the point or actually try with hilarious results.

Then you ruined it.. I hope you feel good about helping someone out.. You don't deserve to be on 4chan

>> No.1439236

>Learn welsh

>> No.1439249

>>1439209
don't go all emotional blackmail on me just because I know that the Iliad is a classical GREEK text.

there already has been plenty of sound advice on this in here and since I am german, and not english, and learned latin in school for about 4 years, I didn't feel I could sufficiently help OP out.

Pointing out that you have no clue about what you are talking about might help OP to select between the various hints he got in this thread, though.

Don't bother replying to this, I won't be here to read it anyways.