/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.14333059]

How do you respond?

[Anonymous No.14333070]

sage, hide and report

[Anonymous No.14333073]

>>14333059
He was right. Ask yourself this: would there be any incels with orgy-porgy? They could just have sex and never bother becoming racists and sexists

[Anonymous No.14333094]

>>14333070
how do you sage a youtube comment?

[Anonymous No.14333109]

Huxley was really clear about this.

[Anonymous No.14333114]

>>14333094
You sage it by mintin’ it

[Anonymous No.14333121]

nobody is happy if you aren't given the option to be unhappy

[Anonymous No.14333217]

>>14333109
Quick rundown?

[Anonymous No.14333271]

>>14333073
Nice Schopenhauer move.

[Anonymous No.14333272]

Did he miss the part about everyone being drugged all the time?
Or the part about the lower-class manual laborers who lived in extreme poverty and squandered all their money on drugs whenever they could?

[Anonymous No.14333283]

>>14333272
Isn't this just how it actually is, though?

[Anonymous No.14333287]

>>14333283
oh god

[Anonymous No.14333309]

>>14333059
If you believe it's a utopia, you don't have a soul. And you're entirely ignorant of the literary tradition of pointing out the impossibility of a utopia.
>>14333121
Based and one-true-Christan-God-pilled.

[Anonymous No.14333316]

>>14333283
Yes. Modern society is a fucking dystopian nightmare from less than 100 years ago.

[Anonymous No.14333319]

>>14333059
>dude the peak of humanity is spending all day every day doing drugs and fucking randos. fuck having goals or doing anything that will make you a more fulfilled individual, just have sex ;)
Gas chamber. Get in. Now.

[Anonymous No.14333369]

Michel went over to the bookshelf and took down What Dare I Think? and handed it to Bruno. "It was written by Julian Huxley, Aldous's older brother, and published in 1931, a year before Brave New World. All of the ideas his brother used in the novel- genetic manipulation and improving the species, including the human species-are suggested here. All of them are presented as unequivocally desirable goals that society should strive for."
Michel sat down again and wiped his forehead. "In 1946, just after the war, Julian Huxley was appointed director-general of UNESCO, which had just been founded. Aldous Huxley had just published Brave New World Revisited, in which he tried to portray the first novel as a social satire. Years later, Aldous would become a pillar of the hippie experiment. He had always been in favor of complete sexual liberation, and he was a pioneer in the use of psychedelic drugs. The founding members of Esalen met him and were taken with his ideas. Then the New Age came along and recycled all the ideas of Esalen. Aldous Huxley is probably one of the most influential thinkers of the century."

[Anonymous No.14333486]

>>14333319
I haven’t read brave new world yet. But a girl I went on a date with in high school remarked “You would love brave new world” after I made a comment that 1984 was a pointless read because nothing happens from the first to the last page.
Jesus christ what kind of person am I if i’d prefer that

[Anonymous No.14333504]

>>14333073
>people are on sexist and racist because they don't have sex
I've had sex and I hate women and niggers

[Anonymous No.14333532]

is a clockwork orange a utopia? they were on their way to eliminating antisocial behavior through brainwashing

[Anonymous No.14333538]

>>14333059
The house lights went down; fiery letters stood out solid and as though selfsupported in the darkness. THREE WEEKS IN A HELICOPTER. AN ALLSUPER- SINGING, SYNTHETIC-TALK1NG, COLOURED, STEREOSCOPIC
FEELY. WITH SYNCHRONIZED SCENT-ORGAN ACCOMPANIMENT.
“Take hold of those metal knobs on the arms of your chair,” whispered Lenina.
“Otherwise you won’t get any of the feely effects.”
The Savage did as he was told.
Those fiery letters, meanwhile, had disappeared; there were ten seconds of complete darkness; then suddenly, dazzling and incomparably more solid- looking
than they would have seemed in actual flesh and blood, far more real than reality, there stood the stereoscopic images, locked in one another’s arms, of a
gigantic negro and a golden-haired young brachycephalic Beta-Plus female.
The Savage started. That sensation on his lips! He liited a hand to his mouth;
the titillation ceased; let his hand fall back on the metal knob; it began again.
The scent organ, meanwhile, breathed pure musk. Expiringly, a sound-track
super-dove cooed “Oo-ooh”; and vibrating only thirty-two times a second, a
deeper than African bass made answer: “Aa-aah.” “Ooh-ah! Ooh- ah!” the
stereoscopic lips came together again, and once more the facial erogenous zones
of the six thousand spectators in the Alhambra tingled with almost intolerable
galvanic pleasure. “Ooh .”
The plot of the film was extremely simple. A few minutes after the first Oohs
and Aahs (a duet having been sung and a little love made on that famous bearskin, every hair of which-the Assistant Predestinator was perfectly right-could
be separately and distinctly felt), the negro had a helicopter accident, fell on his
head. Thump! whata twinge through the forehead! A chorus of ow’s and aie’s
went up from the audience.
The concussion knocked all the negro’s conditionimg into a cocked hat. He developed for the Beta blonde an exclusive and maniacal passion. She protested.
He persisted. There were struggles, pursuits, an assault on a rival, finally a
sensational kidnapping. The Beta blond was ravished away into the sky and
kept there, hovering, for three weeks in a wildly anti- social tête-à-tête with the
black madman. Finally, after a whole series of adventures and much aerial acrobacy three handsome young Alphas succeeded in rescuing her. The negro was
packed off to an Adult Re-conditioning Centre and the film ended happily and
decorously, with the Beta blonde becoming the mistress of all her three rescuers. They interrupted themselves for a moment to sing a synthetic quartet, with
full super- orchestral accompaniment and gardenias on the scent organ. Then
the bearskin made a final appearance and, amid a blare of saxophones, the last
stereoscopic kiss faded into darkness, the last electric titillation died on the lips
like a dying moth that quivers, quivers, ever more feebly, ever more faintly, and
at last is quiet, quite still.

[Anonymous No.14333543]

>>14333059
hook him up to the experience machine and watch him coom himself to death.
repeat this on anyone who agrees with his opinion until they're all removed from the gene pool.
there now exists no utilitarians, therefore utilitarianism is refuted.
q.e.d.

[Anonymous No.14333618]

>>14333486
She probably wasnt really listening much. Her female brain probably picked up the keyword '1984' and spat out 'Brave New World' in response.

[Anonymous No.14333632]

>>14333538
I need to reread that book.

[Anonymous No.14333634]

>>14333532
except it didn't actually work

[Anonymous No.14333665]

>>14333059
I honestly think most people aren't cynical enough to survive the brave new world.

[Anonymous No.14333688]

>>14333543
Basado

[Anonymous No.14333709]

>>14333272
Yeah but thats what the r*tards of the lower classes deserve. Meanwhile all the gigabrain überchads got to rule over society or just chill on the Falklands and discuss philosophy.

[Anonymous No.14333721]

BNW devalues the individual by demoting him from organism (or agent) to organ. The people in their society have no power, no independence, no personal will - they have no ego. Any man there might as well already be dead, for he is nothing more than a vehicle for an unfeeling society to feel.
The "people" there aren't people so much as they are a mixture of golem and embodied pleasure circuit.

BNW is the bad-end where humanity becomes so obsessed with achieving happiness that they neglect that abstracted happiness was never the goal - it was the happiness of men.

[Anonymous No.14333761]

we're moving toward a more zardoz like society than anything

[Anonymous No.14334193]

>>14333059
It's obvious that the story is about controlling people through pleasure. It's a dystopia because people are enslaved.

[Anonymous No.14334202]

>>14333634
BNW's methods of social control didn't work all the time either

[Anonymous No.14334208]

>>14334202
I agree, neither were a utopia

[Anonymous No.14334218]

>>14334208
do you mean because the societies described lack human freedom?

[Anonymous No.14334220]

>>14333059
A world without pain would be a world without meaning. There, done.

[Anonymous No.14334222]

>>14333709
>thats what the r*tards of the lower classes deserve
does it matter that they were manipulated in utero to be made retarded?

[Anonymous No.14334250]

>>14334218
BNW was a very free society relatively speaking, it was more the lack of art, love, literature, ect. BNW is the perfect example of Socrates unsatisfied being worth more than pigs satisfied. Clockwork Orange really isn't really a dystopian novel to begin with, it certainly has it's flaws, but overall it doesn't seem like a terribly oppressive society (although certainly more violent).

[Anonymous No.14334254]

>>14334222
That anon is a lost cause

[Anonymous No.14334668]

>>14334222
Does it matter that cattle are bred and genetically engineered to be eaten?

[Anonymous No.14334698]

BNW is one of the finest examples for the tragedy of the human condition and its strive for utopian ideals which always falls apart into a dystopia.

[Anonymous No.14334703]

>>14333709
The alpha's get to run the world, so long as they stay in their lane. Start thinking the wrong thoughts, or working too well and you get shipped off to an island where you can't bother anyone important. An island where you're free to work, out of the sight of society, in the hope that one day part of your life's work might be integrated into society by a sell-out world controller, but probably not.

[Anonymous No.14334713]

>>14334703
If I'm on the island why would I care that my work won't be read by the chemically-pacified low IQ masses? 90% of the people worth respecting are on the island with me.

[Anonymous No.14334743]

>>14333073
I became significantly more sexist and racist after I started having sex

[Anonymous No.14334817]

>>14333059
Utopia for whom?

[Anonymous No.14334942]

>>14333059
Almost everyone in BNW is guilty of premarital sex, which carries the sentence of enslavement under Utopian law. Since they all remain free, we can be certain that BNW is not Utopian.

[Anonymous No.14335163]

>>14334942
On the contrary, they all are enslaved. BNW is Utopia's punishment facility, Hell if you wish.

[Anonymous No.14335170]

>>14333059
Utopia is dystopian, so shut the fuck up

[Anonymous No.14335174]

>>14333073

People become racist after contact with niggers and sexist from getting to know women.

[Anonymous No.14335181]

>>14334668

That's not true though. Its not like cows were originally smart people and we decided to change them into food. We just changed them from food to better food.

[Anonymous No.14335184]

I don't remember much from reading it in highschool (yeah I'm 102 yrs old), I just remember getting hard about the dude fondling the girl's tits in a helicopter or some shit. Also there was whipping of some sort?

[Anonymous No.14335194]

I wonder why the people who haven't read it always have the strongest opinions. The main character literally fucking kills himself because of the society

[Anonymous No.14335206]

1984: North Korea
BNW: China

[Anonymous No.14335225]

>>14333059
Lobotomize yourself if you consider that happiness. It's the same thing.

[Anonymous No.14335229]

>>14333059
>dude pleasure lmao
Is there even a point in trying to respond to such brainletism?

[Anonymous No.14335242]

Reminder that Demolition Man is the most cogent and accurate dystopia.

[Anonymous No.14335246]

>>14333486
1984 is good but brave new world is only ok

[Anonymous No.14335264]

BNW and 1984 could easily be set in the same world, at the same time because they focus on different parts of society. BNW may as well be the life of the Proles as described in 1984.

[Anonymous No.14335986]

/lit/ BTFO

[Anonymous No.14336499]

>>14333059
Depends entirely what your definition of "happy" is. Most people are stupid and would rather have the government provide everything and tell them what is good and bad.

[Anonymous No.14336558]

>>14333059
People only see it as a utopia because it is so incredibly alike our own world and the current mentality.

[Anonymous No.14336575]

>>14335181
have you ever actually been outside and spoken to a human being? Most people are already happy to work their wagie job and be pacified with entertainment, sex, and drugs. Genetically modifying them to better fill that role is no different than modifying a cow to be a better food source.

[Anonymous No.14336596]

>>14335986
bruh.......


what kinda state of mind is this?

[Anonymous No.14336603]

>>14336499
Not the government, just any form of higher power (perceived or actual).

[Anonymous No.14336609]

>>14336575
they aren't happy, they've never actually taken the time to truly ask themselves "am i happy?"

[Anonymous No.14336620]

>>14336575

You make some ridiculous leaps in logic that are just entirely absurd. Its quite hilarious to see you resort to the "do you even go outside" insult when you seem to be so entirely detached from your humanity.

[Anonymous No.14336636]

>>14333073
Racism and sexism are fine. Just don't be an ass.

[Anonymous No.14336938]

>>14335242
That's a grim bloody fable with an unhappy bloody ending

[Anonymous No.14336969]

>>14336596
Some people are slaves by nature.

[Anonymous No.14337013]

cringe and retard-pilled

[Anonymous No.14337033]

>>14336969
"some men are only fit to be slaves... but no man is fit to be a master!! except me"
- me

[Anonymous No.14337040]

>>14336969
would you mind expanding on this? i may agree to a point, though declaring a human to be a complete slave by nature is a big claim.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE No.14337043]

>>14333504
>>14334743
>>14335174
These people will be treated or marginalized from society for their missteps in life. Hence we have a utopian or at least semi-utopian world
Haven’t read BNW but society is always in the process of fixing things, even under this oppressive capitalist oligarchy shit

[Anonymous No.14337060]

>>14335986
Reminder that most people unironically think like this
>>14337043
>Haven’t read BNW but society is always in the process of fixing things, even under this oppressive capitalist oligarchy shit
Excellent bait moth, have a (you)

[Anonymous No.14337076]

>>14337043

>LALALA IM A MASSIVE FAGGOT

go back to red.dit tripfag

[Anonymous No.14337105]

>>14333059
Suffering is NOT inherently bad. This is a fact.

Suffering is what makes ANYTHING worthwhile at all, if you take suffering away from humanity you leave them with nothing.

And do not try even arguing this, it is true, obviously true. Manifested every day in every person who manages to get out of their bed. Love, friends, hobbies, all of that invites suffering into your life, yet nearly every single human consciously and deliberately chooses the risk if suffering over lying in bed, he chooses to struggle because without it you fell like nothing, totally worthless.

>>14333073
I am a racist, sexist Incel and VERY happy about my current life.

[Anonymous No.14337112]

I unironically agree, it was a literal perfect world even for intellectual edgelords because they were allowed to be sent off to be edgy somewhere on their own. You just pretend it's a dystopia because you live a sad and painful life and cope by telling yourself you're doing it on purpose.

[Anonymous No.14337120]

>>14337105
>And do not even try arguing this

[Anonymous No.14337129]

>>14337120
People denying this are legitimately idiots. I had this debate like 5 times already and not once have I heard even a semi decent counter argument.

[Anonymous No.14337134]

>>14333073
Inceldom is not really about the physical act of sex, or hiring a prostitute would solve the issue. It's about alienation. It's about social rejection. A lack of sex is just a visible symptom of the problem.

The BNW world doesn't solve alienation, so much as it completely abolishes the idea of meaningful relationships. In the world of BNW, everyone is effectively an incel, despite getting sex with literally any other person they want it with on demand.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE No.14337135]

>>14337060
What are you having trouble with?
>>14337076
>said the Re**itor
Stop advertising and gtfo

[Anonymous No.14337139]

>youtube comments

[Anonymous No.14337152]

>>14337139
Midwit on the top, 150 IQ intellectual at the bottom.

[Anonymous No.14337158]

>>14336575
>Most people are already happy to work their wagie job and be pacified with entertainment, sex, and drugs.
No they aren't, drug use and other forms of "pacifying" oneself are linked with unhappines, most people that go down that route do it because they were miserable and gave up trying to find a way out of their situation.

[Anonymous No.14337161]

>>14336575
Most people are depressed

[Anonymous No.14337177]

>>14337040
Not that anon but some people prefer to be guided than to be leaders, I wouldn't call them slaves though its just some people's personality, some will always prefer a benevolent dictator in their lives, like those who genuinely prefer their husband/wife to make all desicions as long as they arent pieces of shit.

[Anonymous No.14337259]

>>14333059
And like all utopias it is built on a false assumption of what humans require in life, which makes it a dystopia

[Anonymous No.14337260]

>>14336575
Our society is producing spontaneous random massacres. The very fact that spree killers exist is a symptom of a much deeper spiritual vacuum. Of course the solution is just as simple as disarming the populace and subduing more with psychiatric drugs. The whole point of BNW is that the techno industrial society is so deeply alienating that the masses will have to be pacified with pleasure.

[Anonymous No.14337288]

>>14333073
I’m not racist or sexist. I hate vapidness in anyone and everyone in BNW is valid and pleasure seeking to a fault.

[Anonymous No.14337298]

>>14337260
our society doesn't work to identify those who are incompatible with it (such as the people with antisocial tendencies who have the potential to later become mass killers) and send them to remote islands

[Anonymous No.14337314]

>>14337298
>our society doesn't work to identify those who are incompatible with it
Because it is what creates them, to detect them society itself would have to admit fault first.
And that isn't going to happen.

[Anonymous No.14337362]

>>14337177
I am the one you responded to. I agree completely. The word “slave” was a bit dramatic there. I would say the one distinction though is that anyone with this follower/submissive/dependent mentality/nature in the modern age will object to being told what to do when it’s they feel it resembles slavery or dictatorship. Even if they are made aware of their passive and dependent nature, they will likely reject it and try to rid themselves of it. I am an unread person, but I find this mentality to be a massive flaw of modern thinking. Just because someone is weak or “below” on the scale of strength or consciousness and needs guidance does not mean their life has less overall value. In a balanced place, there needs to be leaders and followers, or else chaos will arise. I believe people know this inherently and it will manifest subconsciously into their behavior, such as BDSM or politics.

I know this is basic level shit, just ranting. I’m going to start reading and I’m excited.

[Anonymous No.14337383]

>>14337314
Do you have a single fact to back that up?

[Anonymous No.14337412]

>>14337383
>Do you have a single fact to back that up?
Eliot Rodger was literally impossible in any healthy culture. He is purely the product if ethnic, parental and social alienation which are pretty constant throughout the west.

[Anonymous No.14337423]

>>14337040
It is all risk aversion, which is heritable.
A slave is 'by nature' timid, that is he hates risk, and would much prefer servitude with less risk to nobility with high risk of injury or early death. I say 'he' because women are naturally timid and docile, it is just that in the West their slavemaster is a depersonalized State with lowerly slaves too often but forced caretakers.
This is why a yesterday's glorified robber Sforza would become a today's noble Duke of Milan. Because people inclined to take risks take them, and either die trying or achieve their risky success and stature in life. Or why the Greeks reasoned that their slaves had it coming by not commiting sudoku when threatened with defeat and slavery, or why the Romans were pleased to see Germanic barbarians murder themselves and their progeny to avoid slavery after defeats.
Now, as I said, this is a heritable trait. Much like one breeds a tame species specifically for its tameness and stupidity, in case of dogs - for some intellect yet servility. Some people are more timid than others, as their progeny is too - this is why you have caste societies with whatever local equivalent of nobles apalled to mix their seed with them dirty cowardly villains.
A human can be conditioned to become servile after enough pressure applied, but it will be that harded with naturally risky bloodlines who may snap out of it when conditioning is no longer applied, or sudoku themselves out of it. Likewise a naturally timid person can be whipped into a barbarous rage, if for a couple hours - by spending enough energy to get a squad of not_slaves to pillage and burn for a week.

So, a society of drugged bliss with no risks involved would be paradise for a naturally timid person, so long as their needs are provided for. And their needs are quite low, considering all the risk-aversion thing. These are the guys that quietly approve any and all demagogue, Communist or Fascist or whatnot, to take all the risks for them by making decisions. If they get blissed out in the process, they are indeed happy. Likewise, for a person naturally inclined to take risks by claiming space and themselves, such a society is an endless horror.

[Anonymous No.14337424]

>>14337134
>everyone is effectively an incel, despite getting sex with literally any other person they want it with on demand.

This is literally an oxymoron. Incel is just short for involuntarily celibate. They're just people who can't get laid and are resentful because of it. They apply their lack of a sex life on them as a person which affects their self esteem, or even worse they blame their lack of sex on society and we get people like Elliot Rodger.

[Anonymous No.14337448]

>>14337298
>>14337314
This is a false dilemma. These people and their actions are parts of and a mechanism of society. They are not produced as deficits, nor is their production stoppable. It's all a part of a complex system of self-imposed stressors, and the lifecycle of norms.

I know it seems counter-intuitive to suggest that we view those who cause great "harm" as a valuable and irreplaceable part of the superorganism. It's best to look at everything in the world less like an unstable system, and more like a finely wound watch. The journey to do that begins with reading literature on observations of deviance in social structures.

How we believe we organize society is very different from the mechanical reality of it. The ultimate mundane realization is that two perceived opposing forces drive a singular wheel. 'Good' and 'evil' are cogs in the same machine. Trying to understand the whole machine without accounting for all components is ludicrous. This is the first of many esoteric secrets, enigmatic knowledge of grand-scale sociology.

[Anonymous No.14337488]

>>14337412
I don't want to strawman you, so let me confirm: is your claim that psychopathy is created by environmental conditions?

[Anonymous No.14337529]

>>14333059
>collective society owning your sexuality

yeah really fucking utopian, bro

[Anonymous No.14337584]

Huxley and his brother were elites who put forth bnw as a map for the society they were trying to create.

Bnw is real look at Huxley's talk where he tells the people he's taking to they are too stupid to understand that bnw is actively being worked on

[Anonymous No.14337679]

>>14337584
Is this referring to BNW: Revisited?

[Anonymous No.14337754]

>>14337679

No but Huxley's brother invented the term transhumanism and helped with UNESCO.

Aldous Huxley's Berkeley speech is filled with promoting nwo style nonsense as well.

[Anonymous No.14337804]

>>14337754
these people will be annihilated by the good one day

[Anonymous No.14337958]

>>14337804
just bc you say something doesn’t make it so

[Anonymous No.14337987]

>>14335986
poor socrates

[Anonymous No.14338001]

>>14337424
>Inceldom is not really about the physical act of sex, or hiring a prostitute would solve the issue. It's about alienation. It's about social rejection. A lack of sex is just a visible symptom of the problem.

[Anonymous No.14338048]

>>14338001
Wouldn't the term 'incel' then be inappropriate to for such a definition.

Couldn't anybody whose alienated by society and rejected be labeled an incel even tho they have sex all the time?

[Anonymous No.14338627]

>>14333059
Retards thinks happiness is the end goal of life

[Anonymous No.14338682]

>>14333059
It's a pretty common argument, reminds one of the cultural relativism/structural functionalism. One might either respond from Marxism (explaining why that view hides from us a variety of elements that are fundamental in the analysis) or from something like Architecture Functionalism (saying that, if the author conceived it as a Dystopia then even in its own internal logic we are set in a Dystopian understanding of the author's view of their own work, as the Gestalt it presents limits to ours).
Both options are weak enough, but I'm a supporter of the first

[Anonymous No.14338725]

>>14338682
>t. first year college student

[Anonymous No.14338785]

>>14338048
what youre w'itnessing is literal criticism in action

[Anonymous No.14338834]

>>14333073
>people wouldnt be sexist or racist if you just gave them regular sex
This is clearly an incel mindset

[Anonymous No.14338920]

>>14333059
The last man lives the longest.

[Anonymous No.14339158]

>>14333709
Meanwhile the people ruling society are mostly self medicated on anti-depressants and mood stabilizers to deal with their low-stakes highly competitive life and don't even have time to think about philosophy.

[Anonymous No.14339183]

>>14333073
Bernard was still miserable and angsty

[Anonymous No.14339496]

>>14336575
This anon is fr*cking bad *ss. Who wants to go to his house to listen to Marilyn Manson?

[Anonymous No.14339831]

>>14333059
>human happiness is the goal of society
Totally cringe.