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/lit/ - Literature

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14331146 No.14331146 [Reply] [Original]

>read/watch novel/movie older than 30 Years
>it's full of cliches and predictable plot twists.

Inb4 it was revolutionary at the time/it's a classic

>> No.14331158

>>14331146
keep reading fucko

>> No.14331186

>he doesn't read an old novel/watch an old movie just so he can boast that he read it/saw it and not look like a pleb

>> No.14331229

>>14331186
>Implying i don't
I just wish i could flush my mind before reading/watching anything.

>> No.14331242

>>14331229
Take comfort in the thought the more you read/watch these old novels/movies, the sharper your sensibilities as a critic become.

>> No.14331256

>>14331146
In English Doc?

>> No.14331266

>>14331242
Watching citizen Kane didn't make me a better critic , it's just made me bored. And it made me frustrated to know the the only reason anyone watches it is because it's "revolutionary".

>> No.14331279

>>14331146
>70's cop movie
>everyone just casually saying nigger
>black cops in the room
>this detective dude says nigger
>nobody gives a fuck

>> No.14331286

>>14331266
That's the problem, isn't it: there are a zillion movies and books out there.

Which ones to watch? Which ones to read?

The more you know the more you know.

The less you know the better.

>> No.14331294
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14331294

> mfw was unwillingly exposed to pop cliches as a kid and now i can't enjoy the original classics from which the cliches stemmed

>> No.14331296

>>14331286
yeah the internet is oversaturated with information and media

interesting topic btw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIYBod0ge3Y

>> No.14331302

>>14331146
>Inb4 it was revolutionary at the time/it's a classic
is this supposed to be a counter-argument?
you can't just brush things away because things have improved since then

>> No.14331304

>>14331266
>And it made me frustrated to know the the only reason anyone watches it is because it's "revolutionary".
If you're interested in film, shouldn't you watch movies that were important to the medium?

>> No.14331313

>>14331294
>mfw when had "Luke I'm your father" spoiled to me by pop culture

This is probably why i haven't gotten around to watching Star wars, i have an extreme case of spoiler paranoia

>> No.14331314

>>14331296
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDmWYVdN8ug

>> No.14331317

>>14331266
Citizen Kane is good even divorced from historical context, you are literally just a pleb with a ruined attention span.

>> No.14331324

>>14331296
There's plenty of old websites that have been completely expunged from the Internet, the Sons of Liberty system is working

>> No.14331323

>>14331302
Yes you can , themes,ideas lose some of thier appeal when you explore them more than once.
if you're exposed to The Matrix before Plato , when you eventually read about "Allegory of the cave" you go "Wow so just like The Matrix" and your mind isn't as blown.

>> No.14331332

>>14331317
>>14331266
The only people that say this are people who are far removed black and white movies. I'd argue that Kane's influence stylistically is overplayed and its the unique character that makes the film. The multi-faceted nature of man and the inability to reduce man to a platitude. When I first saw Kane I was underwhelmed, but after watching older movies and foreign movies for years I really appreciated it. Also, If you think Kane is slow, then never watch Chimes at Midnight (which is Welles' best film). It takes awhile to undo the contemporary action films impact on the mind. People say Star Wars is influential, but it's done more harm than good. That being said 4 and 5 are both great films.

>> No.14331336

>>14331323
The Allegory of the Cave is only like The Matrix in the most surface level of ways, and The Allegory takes the thematic material to a totally different place. You literally didn't understand the story, and it wasn't meant to "blow your mind" anyways.

>> No.14331340

>>14331323
>Wow so just like The Matrix
no
the matrix is just like the allegory of the cave, not the other way around
the matrix is the one that shouldn't be as impressive

>> No.14331344

>>14331340
...

>> No.14331358

>>14331344
thats right
shut up zoomer

>> No.14331361

>>14331336
The i chose a bad example , take my argument and apply it to a better fitting example and you'll see what i mean.
>>14331340
But to someone who watched the matrix first , allegory of the cave is just a "rip off" and thus it's less interesting

>> No.14331365

>>14331336
>The Allegory of the Cave is only like The Matrix
HB Close Encounters of the Third Kind and the Allegory of the Cave?

>> No.14331378

>>14331332
Perhaps my mind is too accustomed to modern storytelling mechanisms/tools/structure that i wasn't able to comprehend Citizen Kane.
>Slow.
Pace doesn't bother me , i plan to watch "Stan tango" one day.

>> No.14331405

Funny because I've read new novels that are full of cliches and Deus ex machina. It tends to be old novels that are good.

>> No.14331427

>>14331378
>Perhaps my mind is too accustomed to modern storytelling mechanisms/tools/structure that i wasn't able to comprehend Citizen Kane.
Most Hollywood movies are ripe with cliches, but in the better the movies they are done more genuine and less-censored than our typical Hollywood films. For example, in The Lady Eve or The Philadelphia story Henry Fonda and Cary Grant get the girl, but there's some interesting psychological and social observations along the way that make the 'happy ending' seem more natural and optimistic, like they touch on something greater and more authentic about life compared to something like a contemporary love story where nothing consequential happens. Also compare John Wick to Lang's The Big Heat. In both films the characters wife dies, but in The Big Heat the wife is known and in the movie for like 30-45 minutes, so the intensity is relatable. Movies also showed woman getting hit or berated when acting ridiculous. A Woman is burned in The Big Heat, and Cary Grant slaps Hepburn in Philly Story. Lastly, compare a super-hero movie like Black Panther or even The Dark Knight to a film like Red River or Once Upon a Time in the West. Red River John Wayne is actually kills people, Kilmonger in Black Panther just blows up shit and everyone survives (civilians dying is not apart of the formula and this is even more egregious in the latest Mission Impossible) In the Dark Knight (a grossly overrated film) The joker is assumed bad because he threatens Maggie Gyllenhaal (who is conveniently saved and never harmed), kills a gangster, and talks funny, but in Once Upon a Time in the West Henry Fonda kills a child in the opening scene and becomes somewhat sympathetic. The Philadelphia story (a quaint comedy story that makes you feel good and happy even if you're an incel) arguably has more genuine and consequential violence than The Dark Knight which is considered a groundbreaking action film by today's standards. However, movies like Leviathan, Manchester by the Sea, and Son of Saul (foreign films usually) actually feature serious hardships and are in-line and better than many older films. Not to mention Germany Year Zero and Bresson's A Gentle Woman which ends with kids committing suicide and in the latter the ending is her committing suicide and is a happy ending.

>> No.14331494

It's sort of a "Seinfeld isn't funny" situation.