Question for followers of Abrahamic Religions

[Anonymous No.14303184]

>Jews
If you don't believe that Jesus was the Messiah, why did God send another prophet and how do you reconcile the Gospel with the Old Testament?
>Christians
How do you cope with the fact that the doctrine of Peter's Church with regards to sin and salvation has significantly changed over time?
>Muslims
If Moses and Jesus genuinely delivered the Word of God to their disciples and their teachings have been corrupted by man over time, how do Muslims guarantee that Mohammad's teachings remain timeless and pure?

[Anonymous No.14303188]

>>14303184
If A=B and A=C then B=C. Equivalence, the most fundamental property of math.

[Anonymous No.14303191]

>>14303184
Not Jew, but Jesus dosen't fit criteria for messiaj

[Anonymous No.14303192]

>>14303184
>How do you cope with the fact that the doctrine of Peter's Church with regards to sin and salvation has significantly changed over time?
Man's interpretation of events develops over time. This is true for all religions.

[Anonymous No.14303200]

>>14303188
Pic related
>>14303191
I know. Is Jesus a prophet in Judaism? Do Jews believe the whole NT is a fabrication, or just the parts about Jesus being God?
>>14303192
How can the criteria for salvation paid for by Jesus Christ change over time? Isn't this a Protestant take?

[Anonymous No.14303204]

>>14303188
>>14303200
Forgot pic

[Anonymous No.14303219]

>>14303188
math is literally just made up, the only reason its lasted this long is that it works. It is not a fundamental rule of being.

[Anonymous No.14303371]

>>14303200
He was allegitaly from Nazareth, but wasn't nazaretin.

[Anonymous No.14303421]

>>14303200
> Is Jesus a prophet in Judaism? Do Jews believe the whole NT is a fabrication, or just the parts about Jesus being God?

No Jesus is not a prophet in Judaism, the last prophet was Malachi 400 or so years before Jesus.

We don’t really think of the Christian Testament, people claiming to be messiah wasn’t uncommon back then. Even today if you go to Tzfat or some other highly religious town, you’ll find people calling themselves messiah.

In terms of historicity of the Christian Testament, we largely respect the fact that Jesus was a Jew of the time period who flew a little too close to the sun and got killed by the Romans. We largely don’t hold him in high-regard simply because his death had been censored by the Romans. The whole thing about Pontius Pilot not wanting to kill Jesus but then the Jews saying “His blood will be on our hands and our children’s hands” has been so fucking horrific for our people it’s unbelievable. There is NOTHING in Jewish law that says you can’t call yourself the messiah. However in Roman law you couldn’t claim yourself to be King while in Roman territory. So logically the Romans killed Jesus, cencored his disciples because we all know how sick Rome was with dealing with civil wars in that region, and now the Jews paid the price for that.

Anyways, yea Jews don’t think of Jesus or the Christian Testament much, it’s just the life of a normal Jew with some bs miracles and trinity stuff thrown in.

[Anonymous No.14303438]

>>14303421
>killed by the romans
this is why I hate you fucking kikes, just admit you killed him

[Anonymous No.14303441]

>>14303421
the jews were mad because he claimed to be the son of god not the fucking messiah you evil kike

[Anonymous No.14303461]

>>14303421
But could you also agree that the Sanhedrin would find Jesus incredibly problematic at the time if he was starting something that they saw as a cult? Be assured, Jesus was not sentenced by the Sanhedrin for just calling himself a Messiah. The Sanhedrin accused him of sorcery for resurrecting the dead and for healing on the sabbath.

[Anonymous No.14303466]

>>14303461
dude that's pretty antisemetic...

[Anonymous No.14303468]

>>14303441
Also this.

[Anonymous No.14303472]

>>14303184
>How do you cope with the fact that the doctrine of Peter's Church with regards to sin and salvation has significantly changed over time?

Not being Roman Catholic.

[Anonymous No.14303480]

>>14303441
Josephus (a Jew) says that he was put to death by “[our/the Jews’] principal men.”

Tacitus (a Roman) laconically states that Jesus was executed “on the orders of the procurator Pontius Pilate.”

If you consider Mara bar Serapion’s “wise king of the Jews” to be Jesus he just says the Jews killed him (Mara’s affiliation is unclear but he has a Jewish name and seems to be a monotheist, and the overall tone of the letter is said to align with Stoicism.)

[Anonymous No.14303490]

>>14303461
the Sanhedrin trial in Mark's Gospel is riddled with legal inaccuracies and impossibilities and has no plausibility as history. There could not be a trial at night, or on the Passover or away from the Temple. There could not be a death penalty on the same day as a trial. The conviction for "blasphemy" for claiming to be the Messiah makes no sense. Claiming to be the Messiah was not blasphemous or illegal at all. Lots of people did it. Where did the transcript for that trial come from anyway? Mark says the only people present were Jesus and the Sanhedrin.

The Jewish authorities had no ability pressure Pilate into anything. The High Priests were handpicked by the Roman Governors. They were puppets of the Romans, they had no leverage with which to pressure Pilate.

All four Gospels say that the formal charge against Jesus, the charge written on the cross, was claiming to be the king of the Jews (i.e. the Messiah). While this was not against any Jewish law, it was against Roman law because it was ipso facto a seditious claim. It denied the authority of the Emperor. That was already enough to get somebody executed (John the Baptist was executed for less), and then Jesus went and caused some sort of ruckus at the Temple during Passover, which was also enough to get somebody executed. The Romans were especially paranoid about riots or revolts during Passover because the city was so jammed full of pilgrims and the Romans were greatly outnumbered. Jerusalem was a tinderbox. Anything that even looked like it might lead to a riot or a revolt as put down immediately. There had been mass slaughters of pilgrims in the Temple courtyard before, one of them specifically at Passover. There is no way someone leading any kind of assault or violent action at the Temple would not get arrested. In John Crossan's Jesus: A Revolutionary Biography he says Jesus was most likely executed as a public menace for his actions at the Temple and that Pilate may not have been directly involved at all. Crossan says we probably cannot even imagine the "casual brutality" with which Jesus was taken away and executed. They would have seen it as a routine task, like rousting a drunk, with no particular importance or significance to Roman authorities. According to the Gospels, Jesus wsn't even the only guy crucified on that same hill that same day.

[Anonymous No.14303495]

>>14303438
Why would we kill him with a Roman form of execution you idiot?

[Anonymous No.14303496]

>>14303490
>>14303441

[Anonymous No.14303499]

>>14303200
>How can the criteria for salvation paid for by Jesus Christ change
It can't but himan perception of them can and does change. The validity of such a change depends entirely whether it bring our knowledge more in line with the actual truth. IF ST. Paul or ST apeter are wrong and it can be proven that to be tue, we just have to accept that.

[Anonymous No.14303502]

>>14303421
Pontius Pilate was a colonial administrator. He had Jesus executed because the Sanhedrin were angry that he was running circles around them in arguments and the followers on whose backs they lived comfortable lifestyles were flocking to Him. Pilate knew that if he didn't appease the Sanhedrin, they would cause some serious trouble that Rome would put down violently. He decided Jesus was an acceptable sacrifice to keep Judea from becoming a warzone. The real villains of the story are not the Romans or the Jews as a whole. It's the priestly caste who insisted on Jesus's execution for their own selfish aims and then used their power in society to ensure it was done.

[Anonymous No.14303507]

>Peter's Church
It's the Jesus's church

[Anonymous No.14303518]

>>14303184
Jews believe Jesus to be a heretic, a bastard and an idol worshipped, that the New Testament is a blasphemous text.

[Anonymous No.14303524]

>>14303191

[Anonymous No.14303525]

>>14303490
What was written on the cross was simply what the Sanhedrin wanted written on there. They wanted it to say "pretended to be king of the Jews" or something similar, but Pilate was sick of their shit and said "What I have written, I have written." The Sanhedrin were weasels, reporting Jesus to the Romans on exaggerated charges to get him over theological disputes and their perception that he was a threat to their power.

[Anonymous No.14303537]

>>14303495
the jews didn't literally kill him but they demanded that pilate execute him, the responsibility for his death is with them

[Anonymous No.14303539]

>>14303502
I believe you both overestimate the power of the temple Jews to influence decisions back then, and underestimate the seriousness of the sedition charge against Jesus by the Romans.

But because I don’t want to keep going onto it while being called a kike, here’s my theory.

Jesus almost caused a riot during Passover and Pilate had him killed to keep things calm. The Jews didn’t kill him, the Emperor of Rome didn’t kill him. Pilate did because it was his job to keep peace and collect taxes.

[Anonymous No.14303540]

>>14303507
don't tell the catholics

[Anonymous No.14303560]

>>14303539
Interesting take. I'll sleep on it and think about it when I'm doing my Bible readings tomorrow. Sorry the fags called you an evil kike.

[Anonymous No.14303577]

>>14303490
Once again, Jesus claimed to be the son of God, not just the messiah.

>The trial was illegimate
Yes, that is what Christians generally believe. https://www.nationalgeographic.co.uk/culture-history/2019/04/why-high-priest-broke-jewish-law-indict-jesus

The very purpose of the trial was to be rigged and contradictory to Torah law. Then when the testimony was finished after they got Jesus to state that he was Christ the son of God and King of the Jews, they sent him to Pilate where he only considered killing him when Pilate asked Jesus if he was King of the Jews and Jesus said he was, using and not using the law when it best suited the Sanhedrin.


>High priest couldn’t have pressured Pilate.
The High priest could have advised Pilate. Pilate did not have to kill Jesus and was very reluctant to do so, however he only wished to maintain the peace and the High Priest and several other Jews advised Pilate to do so, in some extent pressuring him, of course you can do such a thing even to your superior, especially when you are a good manipulator. Pilate did not have to do anything, but he was convinced it was in the best interests to do so because the Sanhedrin advised it.

[Anonymous No.14303798]

>>14303438
>>14303441
Cringe. Christcow cope. The man was just another jew. His name was Y'shua, not yayZeus.


>>14303184
>If you don't believe that Jesus was the Messiah, why did God send another prophet and how do you reconcile the Gospel with the Old Testament?
Not a jew. Yesh was just another rabbi. A good moral teacher. Matthew 5: 17-18
>How do you cope with the fact that the doctrine of Peter's Church with regards to sin and salvation has significantly changed over time?
Not a Christian, its heresy for Moses' (G-d's) law plain and simple. Deuteronomy 27:26.
>If Moses and Jesus genuinely delivered the Word of God to their disciples and their teachings have been corrupted by man over time, how do Muslims guarantee that Mohammad's teachings remain timeless and pure?
They'd probably say that because the Quran still exists in living memory and people can recite it or something. I dont think Mohammed was much of a prophet if at all. The Quran contains a divine spark but its riddle with silly additions lik hell.

Read the texts OP. We are all sons of Noah and all under the rainbow covenant. Christianity and islam are heresy, although there has been righteous people to come from them, just as there are righteous buddhists and sihks or what have you.

S-L-M sibling. May the Lord guide you.

[Anonymous No.14303800]

>>14303184
>How do you cope with the fact that the doctrine of Peter's Church with regards to sin and salvation has significantly changed over time?

I maintain that Apostolic succession is as irrational as it is ascriptural, and that even the idea of the Scriptural "Peter's Church" as understood by Catholics is a Pharisaic inversion of what Jesus intends.

[Anonymous No.14303805]

>>14303421
>The whole thing about Pontius Pilot not wanting to kill Jesus but then the Jews saying “His blood will be on our hands and our children’s hands” has been so fucking horrific for our people it’s unbelievable
The Jew cries out in pain as he strikes you

[Anonymous No.14303807]

>>14303800
Cope. You follow a canon of scripture decided by the church founded on Peter.

[Anonymous No.14303809]

>>14303184
What is prophethood? If I say:
>beware the tide of idols
>you shall feel the fire of (H)is wrath
>turn to the one Lord and creator or suffer
Am I a prophet?

[Anonymous No.14303838]

>>14303807
the church is founded on Jesus brainlet

[Anonymous No.14303852]

>>14303807

I most certainly do not. Atheism is the only conclusion of equating History with Ontology. That is to say if Scripture came to be by "a Canon decided by the Church founded on Peter" then, following the Historical lines of inquiry, you would eventually be forced to concede that Peter could just as easily be said to have not done anything and everything he is said to have done and/or to have not been at all. The same goes for everyone, including Jesus.

[Anonymous No.14304013]

>>14303421
>. The whole thing about Pontius Pilot not wanting to kill Jesus but then the Jews saying “His blood will be on our hands and our children’s hands” has been so fucking horrific for our people it’s unbelievable. There is NOTHING in Jewish law that says you can’t call yourself the messiah. However in Roman law you couldn’t claim yourself to be King while in Roman territory. So logically the Romans killed Jesus
As much as I dislike your semitic asses, this is the truth and as long as Europeans believe the crap (from NT and the OT) we
will remain blind.

[Anonymous No.14304239]

>>14303798
>a fucking noah*de
You're the heretic.

[Anonymous No.14304746]

>>14303184
It was never peter's church. The rock is the Christ, and the church is built upon the finished work of Jesus Christ our Lord who is the one and only mediator between God and men, not some literal sith lord of a pope.

1 Timothy 2:5
>For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Hear the gospel if you want to know what the actual Christian teaching is all about.
https://youtu.be/BXMA4xOS5BY

[Anonymous No.14304754]

>>14304746
>that one Steven Anderson shill that appears in every thread on Christianity
Like clockwork

[Anonymous No.14304992]

>>14304746

>blaspheming book-worshipping repressed homosexual "Soul-winning"

no wonder Arizona is a sin bin

[Anonymous No.14305058]

>>14303421
>There is NOTHING in Jewish law that says you can’t call yourself the messiah
Dishonest jew

[Anonymous No.14305081]

why does the Arab world and Christian extremists hate the Juden, when their religion was birthed from the Judaism?

[Anonymous No.14305137]

>>14304746
he describes passage into heaven as occurring at death

DROPPED

[Anonymous No.14305193]

>>14303219
That isn't necessarily true. Take Kant's critique of pure reason; for example, addition is a principle that exists outside of math but is certainly a core aspect of it.

[Anonymous No.14305277]

>Christian
I don't put my faith in human institutions. Insofar as the Church teaches correct doctrine, I am fine with it, but Vatican II has been an unmitigated disaster. The only solution is to retire from public faith and seek the good life privately. "Ride the tiger", as a certain pagan would say.

[Anonymous No.14305450]

>>14303184
>Christian
Tbh, I don’t really follow organizations or churches all that much, sure I might pop in at church every once in a while, but I mostly just like to think about how the Bible works, like what makes something a sin, n’ all dat stuff

[Anonymous No.14306907]

>>14304239
The rainbow covenant is clearly in genesis. Bet your pitiable Christcow whose never read it.

[Anonymous No.14306942]

I feel tired of christianity and christians lately but I don't like the atheistic culture either. I don't belong anywhere.

[Anonymous No.14306948]

>>14305081
Its necessary to sustain their heresy from Moses (G-d's) law and the covenant (H)e made with Noah and his kin.

[Anonymous No.14306958]

>>14303184
>If you don't believe that Jesus was the Messiah, why did God send another prophet and how do you reconcile the Gospel with the Old Testament?
Jew don't believe Jesus was a prophet, in fact they believe he is the defining example of a false-prophet. For the Jews the gospels are about as legit as the Book of Mormon is to Catholics.

[Anonymous No.14306966]

>>14306942
If your beliefs are guided by a feeling of belonging to a community you are literally subhuman.

[Anonymous No.14307009]

>>14303184
Jew here. Jesus is a false Messiah. The gospel is not a holy book and as such is not discussed.

[Anonymous No.14307067]

>>14306907
Imagine being so much of a bluepilled colonized beta that you view a race or a category of people as superior to you and being more in touch with the divine. Idolators. You assume I'm a Christian. I'm a Muslim, but I prefer Christians over Noah*des. At least they don't believe God needs a house, or that he ordered butchering babies, or any other retarded dogma of your mediocre faith.

[Anonymous No.14307082]

>>14306948
You're totally not butchering God's name, dude. So insecure. Perhaps you fear drawing his attention.

[Anonymous No.14308051]

>>14307067
>Imagine being so much of a bluepilled colonized beta that you view a race or a category of people as superior to you and being more in touch with the divine.

Firstly you are clearly not in touch with reality, let alone the divine, considering your infantile, seething language and utter poverty of knowledge on the subject. Noah came before the Isrealites fool and by his sons where the whole earth overspresd (Genesis 9:19 - not that you have the integrity to read the scriptures of Moses, the prophet mentioned more in your book than the supposed one you follow sheepishly) that includes you. Jews have it harder (more commandments) than us because they need more discipline, they are meant to be an example, yes, but every student is meant to surpass their teacher. Literally everything and everyone contains a divine spark. You guys are the ones who seem determined to kill or convert everyone. Shows a great trust in the power of your message the way you violently condemn outsiders and desperately need to covert or destroy.
>Idolators. .. I'm a Muslim,
Have you heard the hadith of mohammed covering the statue of the virgin mary and child with his shawl? Man was a big idolater, self elevator, clear egotist and a petty tyrant beheading little minstrel girls whose criticisms made him seethe. Not to mention marying the, how old was Aisha? 9-10?- when they had sex? The man was a disgusting violent monster attacking innocent trading caravans to cope with being rejected by his home town.
>At least they don't believe God needs a house
You guys are the ones whose worship a black box in the desert. Second holy site is a the tomb of a decomposing petty tyrant and third is a soon to be destroyed dome in a territory you cant even hold despite having it surrounded.
>that he ordered butchering babies,
The actual f'ck are you on about- poor fool. Still bet you've never read the bible.
>or any other retarded dogma
I don't have dogmas, unlike you guys.

Just look at the Israeli war of independence. You fools had what- Egyptian, Lebanese, Jordanian, Iraqi and Syrian armies and you still couldn't defeat tiny, young Israel. G-d is not with you, I'm sorry.

Just to add to my first point also. Imagine being so arrogant as to think that you and your faith are the only ways acceptable to G-d. Now that is a disgusting monopolisation of knowledge that you cant even know and clear blasphemy. Imagine being so conceited as to think that "no one is holier than us". Your nations are a laughing stock if they're not despicably contemptible on all fronts and the only reason they aren't completely under American boots is the liquid you happen to have under the ground.

G-d will put you disgusting aberrations in your place.

[Anonymous No.14308059]

>>14306948
Its just out of respect. I don't see why it should be problematic to anyone except in that it makes others question their own level of faith and their own commitment to not taking the Lord's name in vain.

[Anonymous No.14308142]

>>14306907
I didnt believe any unironic noahides existed. What do you even get out of it? It's a completely bare bones faith if you could even call it that. Like >>14307067 said you're admitting you are subservient to jews. What opportunities for spiritual nourishment are there? Theres no tradition or ritual.

[Anonymous No.14308172]

>>14303184
>If Moses and Jesus genuinely delivered the Word of God to their disciples and their teachings have been corrupted by man over time, how do Muslims guarantee that Mohammad's teachings remain timeless and pure?

The Qur'an is still in it's original form. One of the main reasons it has never been changed is because from the beginning (and till today) followers memorise it word for word. If it had been changed somewhere down the line, someone would definitely notice and rectify that.
As for his teachings that are not in the Qur'an, a similar thing has happened. There's almost a tree of people who can "vouch" for whether hadith is true or not. It goes back generations and generations. I don't know much about this side of it but that's my understanding.

[Anonymous No.14308230]

so much retardation in this thread

the gospels are so clearly corrupted its a joke. theres a million sources on that on the internet, i wont get into it here.

trinity is idolatry. catholics literally worship numerous idols every sunday and all modern christians believe in an imperfect triune-god with no coherence. if i wasnt a jew id be a muslim or a noahide or something

[Anonymous No.14308238]

>>14303438

paul said christianity isn't true if christ didnt die on the cross. if we really killed the nigger (we didnt but i wish we did), you should be thanking us

[Anonymous No.14308273]

>>14307067

the quran is corrupted you idiot. also God doesnt pick shitskin pedos as prophets.

[Anonymous No.14308473]

>>14308142
Cringe. We are all sons of noah. The rainbow covenant covers all life on earth. It encompasses all faiths as all people come from Noahs sons. Subservience to people isn't it fool, we are all subservient to G-d or your worshipping dead men in man made cults. Again, spiritual nourishment comes from G-d, not people, but you probably wouldn't know anything about that if your a part of some man made cult that validates your ego with petty, narrow tribalism.
>>14308172
It was literally collated by like the 3rd caliph. Well after mohammed's death. As if the man is worth remembering anyway. Degenerate, pedo, warlord. A laughable schizo that roped in a bunch of idiots more with the threat of beheading and scary spooky hell bullshit than reason or actually compelling behaviour. At least Y'shua was a decent moralists.

[Anonymous No.14308498]

>>14308051
>>14308273
>>14308473
Cope in Hell, you support one of the most evil political regimes in existence, and that's just one of your follies.

[Anonymous No.14308624]

>>14308498
Hell doesn't exist. Its a bullshit Catholic heresy to scare people that your pedo master bought into. Neither does evil, just your ignorance, which your sort seems to have an infinite supply off. Besides, I'm with team G-d. I mean, on mudslime terms, your pre-determinists, so G-d has predetermined that you will lose every war you've ever tried to fight against Israel.

Stop letting G-d down and holding us back with your folly.

[Anonymous No.14308648]

>>14308230
Why not a Samaritan?

[Anonymous No.14308657]

>>14308273
Muhammed was white and a ginger, fyi

[Anonymous No.14309103]

>>14308230
>there's a million sources on that on the internet
Amazing argument. You know you can look at something like the Novum Testamentum Graece and compare the extant fragments yourself? There's no cabal of spooky trinitarians trying to hide what we actually know of the New Testament from you.

[Anonymous No.14309476]

>>14309103
John 20:17 ... .so jesus is God but has a God?

Mark 13:32 ... so jesus is God but knows different things from the father?

John 1:5-7 added in the 1600s

yeah keep worshiping your dead nigger idol. im gonna go read the word of God and fuck my hot idf wife whos more white than you

[Anonymous No.14309540]

>everyone ITT bashing the Catholic Church

I fucking love it. Keep going, assholes, I'm rock hard. Everybody hates us because we're right and the rest of the Earth can't stand it.

[Anonymous No.14309590]

>>14308624
Seek help, or at least just start being a Jew.

[Anonymous No.14309591]

>>14309540
>Can't even get the name of the MAN you worship right
>Can't even get the name of your philosophical position right
>geta hard over criticism from channers
Can't even get your sexuality right apparently.

[Anonymous No.14309599]

>>14309590
Your the one who has a problem.

[Anonymous No.14309874]

>>14308473
whatevs faggot, no one care about you anyways

:^)

[Anonymous No.14310257]

>>14303421
>However in Roman law you couldn’t claim yourself to be King while in Roman territory.
What an absolute load of shit, you people are unbelievable, I guess that's why you invented the word Chutzpah.

[Anonymous No.14310275]

>>14303421
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herod_the_Great
Explain how Herod got away with calling himself King of the Jews then you lying kike.

[Anonymous No.14311146]

>>14308624
Of course evildoers would think there's no Hell. Just like atheists.