/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.14301208]

help I feel an utter sense of helplessness. the revolution will be futile. he's right isn't he? capital is all there is. How do we respond? How do we go on from here?

[Anonymous No.14301219]

>this is what bugmen jack off to in the morning
Reach Gnosis you cocksuckers.

[Anonymous No.14301218]

Step 1. Keep subscribing to social media philosophies instead of learning to read real philosophy

[Anonymous No.14301225]

>>14301208
hmmmmmmmmmm... define "capital"

[Anonymous No.14301246]

>>14301218
social media is everything. opposing social media is as social media as anything else. You're not really original or on to anything. You've never accomplished anything substantial in your life and you're worth less than 5 percent of an elon musk who subscribes very much to varities of what you call "social media philosophy". You're contemptible.

>>14301219

bvj987874568876jbhiujggulju

[Anonymous No.14301252]

>>14301225
capital is everything. that's why there's nothing other than capital. gee this philosophy shit is pretty easy.

[Anonymous No.14301300]

>>14301246
>not using social media IS social media!
Wow what a powerful idea. I can't wait to share it with nobody

[Anonymous No.14301332]

>>14301300
sure, disengage. It's not my job to make you see the cancer that you participate in, criticize but equally are a part of. You are the cancer who, through unaware self-criticism, sustain yourself.

[Anonymous No.14301353]

>>14301332
What do I participate in? What am I a part of? I literally go to work and then go home and read books. What else is there that you think that I do?

[Anonymous No.14301359]

>>14301246
t. zoomer

[Anonymous No.14301380]

>>14301353
post on 4chan

[Anonymous No.14301424]

>>14301380
It does a poor job of that then since there's a lack of social accountability which came packaged with the web2.0 "social media" designation specifically. Nor do I consider this media. Chans are merely surrogate relics of web1.0 forums were not ever considered social "media". The terminology is anachronistic.

[Anonymous No.14302214]

>>14301208
>the revolution will be futile. he's right isn't he?
Hes projecting. He strait up tells you.

[Anonymous No.14302255]

>>14301424
retard

[Anonymous No.14302444]

Nick Land is a misanthrope. The irony of his influence from Deleuze is that he suffers from Deleuze’s “schizophrenia,” that is, he sees capitalism as an entity separate from people. Obviously, if you fabricate an object in place of people and address that, you can’t change people. change would need to happen with directly understanding the people in power who uphold capitalism and their psychological reasons for doing it: their insecurities, misanthropy, fear of pain, etc to make them realize the way they lead their lives allows them to generally avert pain, at the expense of love and purpose that isn’t dependent on the material. The “Eat the rich” stuff is going to fail because it’s actually a tool to uphold capitalism by enhancing schizophrenia (D’s version of it), where people attack concepts of people thus, objects, in place of actual people, which requires compassion/understanding

[Anonymous No.14302455]

>the revolution will be futile. he's right isn't he? capital is all there is.

straight up bullshit... the world changes so fucking fast it's unreal

[Anonymous No.14302459]

>>14301208
Learning that political solutions are futile is one of the most positive things about his work. Many people come to it as radicals, become demoralized, and change their lives. It's a gift, in a way. Time for level 2

[Anonymous No.14302471]

>>14302455
but why is the world changing so fast? how is it that human history used to go centuries at a time without significant change and now everything seems to be changing constantly? (the answer is capitalism)

[Anonymous No.14302482]

>>14302455
And thinking you can influence that change is naive. Most political movements that are successful end up with unplanned results. Maoism lead to modern China

[Anonymous No.14302483]

>>14302459
Spengler had that effect on me. I was seriously in danger of becoming a nazi or something until I read him. Land didnt have a lot of impact on me at all, I think that essay on Trakl is probably the only thing I really took from him. His 'outside' concept strikes me as a bizarre inversion of God

[Anonymous No.14302512]

>>14302483
I'm glad. I think politics are poison and end up ruining lives. Left, right, and center. Sometimes the best thing to do is go very deep, recognize the flaws in the ideology, and break yourself down

[Anonymous No.14302514]

D'awwwww, look at the little baby. He is stuck in anthropocentrism

[Anonymous No.14302583]

>>14302514
> ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise
that 40k shit hits hard though. I want to meet the person who made this meme. It's at least two years old already

[Anonymous No.14302682]

>>14302512
Politics are indeed poison but ironically the less you care, and hence know, about politics the easier it is to get manipulated by a demagogue. There is no escape

[Anonymous No.14302694]

>>14302682
So many people will be manipulated, your personal level of engagement is irrelevant. There will never be a time where the majority is above manipulation. So, I think, refusal to engage and give your energy to the process is the only choice

[Anonymous No.14302724]

>>14301208
We take our rightful place as the bridge between ape and Übermensch.

[Anonymous No.14302796]

>>14302694
I'm talking about the danger of yourself being manipulated. The less you know about a topic the easier it is get brainwashed, or to just have really stupid takes. I really hate the thought of being like a normie with no well founded views about anything whose opinions are subconsciously formed from the chatter of whatever social group you happen to belong. On the other hand caring seriously about politics is a loss of time and emotionally draining, worrying about things that really have no influence of your day to day life. There is no way out it seems.

[Anonymous No.14302816]

>>14302796
You can just adopt a kind of empirical skepticism about things that makes you have very few beliefs at all about most matters related to social sciences.

[Anonymous No.14302833]

>>14302796
I'm with you. I'm still struggling to push out the years of political abstractions and obsessions from my head. I do get caught up in certain elections, like I'm part of something. But it's fading. I'm having trouble replacing the hope I found in "making a difference" though political activity. When you lose hope in having even a sliver of power, it is hard to see the point in anything. I see your point about foreseeing the future though political engagement to avoid personal pain. There is probably a way to keep your distance mentally while still tracking the trends. 4chan tends to be a good bellwether in that regard, while filtering out a lot of pop culture noise and adding its own

[Anonymous No.14302852]

>>14302214
projecting how?
>>14302459
if political solutions are futile then what isn't? how do you do anything in everyday life if not through exercising power? don't tell me some stupid hedeggerian just go live in the woods lol shit. that shit works well and fine until you have to talk to someone. hell is other people.

>>14302514
I struggle with the concept of abandoning anthropocentrism. I feel like all you post humanists are larpers. If there isn't something deeply unsettling about theorizing your own obsolescence then you're either a sad fuck or a cuckold.

[Anonymous No.14302863]

>>14302852
>If there isn't something deeply unsettling about theorizing your own obsolescence then you're either a sad fuck or a cuckold
unironically a posthumanist here -- yes, it is absolutely unsettling to theorize about. I don't want humanity to end, but if it is ending, why not theorize about it? putting your fingers in your ears and singing isn't the better option here

[Anonymous No.14303100]

dont worry, just like nietszcher it seems bad and dark but its actually embarrassingly optimistic

[Anonymous No.14303113]

>>14303100
for the love of god explain

[Anonymous No.14303140]

>>14301424
Disagree. You may not be accountable to a consumer audience, but you still have an impact with what you contribute: the same way criminals improve law enforcement and criminological science.

As for your semantics re "social media" you seem unsure as to whether the chins are even "media," much less "social media". That this is neither I find unconvincing since ideas, preferences, attitudinal dispositions, memes...are indeed diffusing. You place too much emphasis on accountability as a criterion.

[Anonymous No.14303145]

>>14302444
But capital is deterministic and exhibits emergent properties, same as technics and technology.

[Anonymous No.14303175]

>>14303113
No. You do not deserve an explanation. Work it out for yourself.

[Anonymous No.14303198]

>>14303113

ive read most of n, but only interviews with nl. well, instead of an exponential curve from man to whatever is next (the infinite pluralities of compositions of power, aristocratic techoverlords, the overman or whatever, anything but bourgeoisie democratic christian last man deceleration) its actually a very steep curve to a lower number then you think. pardon the crappy analogy im on drugs.

the future to me is a big old smiling human face and that is terrifying in a way. humanity too weak to own its own properties but too spiteful to allow other unique ones to own it as a property, a very long stalemate, ending in an infinite approach to 0. the true horror, Darwinism without risk, just the survival. that isn't fun, exciting and wont make me feel important, that is real pessimism.

[Anonymous No.14303212]

>>14302444
Seems right. The only way were going to change things is if we are willing to sacrifice ourselves out of love. Things like mass bycotts, mass non violent resistance and reorientation away from the market to communal forms of economic management on a local scale. Cynicism of the landian variety is part of the problem. 2 cents spent.

[Anonymous No.14303225]

>the revolution will be futile
You're wrong. Defeatists will cry about the militarized police and the resource discrepancy, but the only real weapon the aristocracy has is division. They are terrified of solidarity. Through solidarity, nothing is beyond our reach.

[Anonymous No.14303228]

>>14302514
Do i laugh or... what?

[Anonymous No.14303233]

why would you trust anything this guy says when 90% of what he wrote was in a perhaps months-long deranged amphetamine psychosis fit which he followed by a move to asia where now he jerks it to hentai for a living or something. he's literally insane

[Anonymous No.14303244]

Alright faggots, what's a good introduction to Land? Should i start with some smaller works or dive right into seemingly incoherent ramblings in pseudo code?

[Anonymous No.14303249]

>>14303225
>Through solidarity, nothing is beyond our reach.

[Anonymous No.14303256]

>>14302816
Its almost like we need to spit out the fruit.
Seriously though. Like with most things, back to Socrates. Or the zenists.
>>14303198
This is the level of the schizophrenia of pessimistic thinking
>how sad it will be when the world is without suffering
You know whats really the problem i reckon? The cynicism inherent in the temporal flat circle model of western thinking since Plato's shit articulation of socratic thought and Diogenes' trashy hyper criticism. Semetic traditionalism would have been a bettrer route but- its not meant to be easy to be human apparently- or its too easy. Thanks Chavah, you absolute darling.
>>14303225
I agree. Just look at how they (bourgoeis media- kinda redundant) pump i.d. pol to see how much they need division.
>>14303233
Really? Source? Glad I haven't read him. Lmao.

[Anonymous No.14303321]

>>14303198
>>14303256

idk how diogenes relates to a racist techbro overlord feeling bad that ai actually can only do calculus to match platonic forms to platonic forms and that the rate of change of tech is misleading

zenists as in zen? is max stirner zen?

[Anonymous No.14303361]

>>14303244
whats your philosophical background look like

[Anonymous No.14304146]

>>14303145
Capital as a deterministic entity is an instance of D’s schizophrenia because it implies, even if people in power were encouraged to stop upholding it, it would somehow continue to exist as it’s own entity. The arguments usually used for it being deterministic usually mention stuff like, how every economic disaster in capitalism leads to someone profiting, and how even if we tried to become communist, all of our technology is capitalistic because it’s hierarchized to be superior for wealthier people (more expensive, better technology basically). This outlook basically ignores that the system is only upheld due to people choosing to uphold it. As in, the first argument I listed, the solution would be to go to the people who profits from economic disasters and understand their reasons for being misanthropic in order to properly engage with them. The hierarchal stuff is more difficult, at the risk of sounding unrealistic, limited uses of technology could be encouraged and urban planning could be redone to make especially US cities significantly less car-dependent by being more European, where it’s easy to get around by foot and people naturally end up more likely to make connections that way, allowing them to find value beyond material goods, so people care less about the hierarchy of technology from associating it more with function than anything else.
>>14303212
Thanks anon, we’re on the same page. Can’t speak for people at large but I’ve seen one political community fueled by this type of cynicism torn apart from their own members projecting anger and insecurity onto each other and eventually, someone later re-evaluating their misanthropic beliefs (like “eat the rich”) and becoming less resentful. No idea if this kind of thing will happen more, or what we could do to encourage a similar change at large

[Anonymous No.14304271]

>>14303244
You faggots are insufferable.

[Anonymous No.14304326]

>>14304146
>Let's be like the native Americans, using only a subsistence level of tooling commensurate with the needs of the local ecosystem

That only works until your resources are discovered by outsiders. Capital is tech, and those who fail to employ it get consumed and annihilated by those that do. Even a one world utopia would remain subject to dialectical processes. Read more electronics theory or Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars, I guess. While I applaud your tender hearted optimism I would not dare subject myself to it, for I recognize these natural forces remain in play despite state of the art social engineering efforts.

[Anonymous No.14304508]

>>14304326
this is why the gnostics were right

[Anonymous No.14304979]

>>14304326
Can you recommend electronics theory for me? Also, to clarify, I'm against utopian ideals since I think all forms of politics are tyrannical (including anarchy). But it's part of our natural function to organize and develop society. it brings good and bad. i think the form of govt is less significant as much as it is whether the people in power are either somewhat corrupt or totally corrupt. i want something where people can fulfill a collective role in society while still having the freedom to pursue what's individually appropriate

[Anonymous No.14305015]

>>14304146
It's like Adam Curtis said, we need to become more caring.

[Anonymous No.14305100]

>>14305015
Thanks for mentioning him, I'll check his films out

[Anonymous No.14305787]

>>14302444
how is capitalism not an independent entity lmao

[Anonymous No.14305953]

>>14304979
I cannot recommend any gatekeeper, only the principle that electrical engineering theory is esoteric economic theory, whereas economic theory is exoteric theater.

Moreover, it might be useful to stop focusing on dialectical exchanges of political theory and instead consider the logistics of technological systems, the West being a technocracy rather than a "democratic republic" or worse, a democracy. This is made obvious each time you see the principle of consent getting cucked by that of national security.

Think of bread an circuses for every level of intellect and an Intelligence apparatus dating back at least to ancient Phoenicia (quite well refined by now).

[Anonymous No.14306115]

>>14305953
thanks anon

[Anonymous No.14306242]

>>14302852
>projecting how?
He literally says "haha I smoked meth and am doing black magic lets all worship a demon and call it capitalism" and then a few sentences later says "ah but what if in fact the devil was god"

P U R E I D E O L O G Y

>>14305787
>how is capitalism not an independent entity lmao

Like a man or a dog or a cat? Can you reach out and touch it?

[Anonymous No.14306281]

>>14306242
by independent do you mean corporeal?>>14306115

[Anonymous No.14306299]

>>14305787

?????

Motherfucker do think before you put your hands to the keyboard?
An economic system only exists if people participate in it, therefore it is by definition not independent.

I'm a pretty hardcore free market capitalist and think if you think Marx was right you're automatically a pseud but Jesus fucking Christ anon.

[Anonymous No.14306321]

>>14306299
what do you mean by independent? independent of what?

[Anonymous No.14306365]

>>14301208
What are some accelerationist fiction with a normal narrative?
It couldn't live on without something that attracts the empathy and understanding of complete strangers.

[Anonymous No.14306375]

>>14306281
I mean in the sense of what the anon said, a deterministic entity. There was the “capital is sentient” meme around here that roughly expresses what it is. From what I know, Land’s idea is that capital is like an evolutionary process leading to the creation of AI and that we can’t do anything to stop it because it’s beyond human control. That’s what I’m arguing against

[Anonymous No.14306387]

>>14306321
dude you have to at least read what he wrote if you're gonna reply to it

[Anonymous No.14306404]

>>14306375
"deterministic", "independent", and "sentient" all mean something different, so I still don't know what this is getting at. capitalism isn't sentient btw, it isn't acc it was literally just a 4chan meme

[Anonymous No.14306413]

>>14306404
The fundamental idea is that it’s something separate from humanity that people have no control over

[Anonymous No.14306436]

>>14306387
but capitalism can be an independent entity in the sense that the op to this reply chain used it
>>14302444 (an entity from people)
without it being an entity independent of people altogether. it is obviously a "separate entity" from people, as it cannot be reduced to people (capitalism isn't a person or persons but rather a relationship between people), but this still implies human interaction under capitalism...

[Anonymous No.14306461]

>>14306413
Not really sure where you are getting this, Nick Land's description of capitalism arises out of material conditions which necessitate humans (Europe, 1500s). The question on whether capitalism is gaining its own independence is an important topic for the theory, but if every human died tomorrow there would be no capitalism, it isn't assumed to be independent in that naive sense

[Anonymous No.14307368]

>>14301208
>Semantics
Self-determination (implying sentience, ontology) vs Emergent properties. Someone read different books than someone else. Don't hang your hopes on force of pedantry.

[Anonymous No.14309006]

>>14303140
I would say the lack of identity is what distinguishes it from social media.

The culture here is about discussion, whereas social media is about social capital. Nobody comes here trying to become famous. Famous people come here to be anonymous.

That's why the chans aren't social media, merely forums.

[Anonymous No.14309692]

>>14309006
>identity
Individual or group? Reich wingers have their groypers, their ecelebs, their own brand of censorship and hivemindedness. Just try running afoul of debate parameters or scripting. You'll be reminded to return to Reddit and dial 8. If it's election season you'll catch worse still. Discussion within an approved range. Lies by omission.

[Anonymous No.14309705]

>>14301208
>I feel an utter sense of helplessness
Onset gender disphoria.
When will you morons understand that all theory is HRT spells that you cast on yourself. If you insist on reading this bile, NEVER subvocalize it. Read it through a digital screen. This shit will turn you into a tranny, you will spend 10 years fighting the gender disphoria only to give in at 40 and be a deformed tranny

>>14302514
>im above it all
Cuckolded imbecile rationalizing why cuckoldry is good

[Anonymous No.14309905]

>>14301208
>the revolution will be futile.
>will be
It already has been. You can't un-invent financial markets. Capital has already won.

[Anonymous No.14309940]

he sure looks like a serial killer to me

[Anonymous No.14309974]

>>14309905
This
No one expects the next thousand years to be basically the same as this one except we'll live longer and there would be more minutae to fight about

[Anonymous No.14309986]

Become a monk and spend the reminder of your days there. Join an order that follow the rule of Saint Benedict, you'll live in a community that live of its own work where everything is shared between brothers.