Cave Allegory

[Anonymous No.14259237]

How relevant is Plato’s Allegory of the Cave in today’s society? What people are out of the cave in today’s scenario?

[Anonymous No.14259274]

Some say it >>14259237 says a lot

[Anonymous No.14259281]

Mass media inside the cave.
Having a broader perspective of both mass media and everyday life = staring out of the cave (not out of the cave yet)
The only people that are out of the cave are extremely wealthy but people that we don’t even know about and people that have been well educated (able to form thoughts of their own, notice their surroundings, etc.)

[Anonymous No.14259289]

>>14259237
I want to become an Indian scammer and use philosophical allegories like this.

"Yes, ma'am, your computer was locked due to very dangerous pornographic site your son visited. Please give bank account information to unlock PC. Yes, yes, I work for Microsoft. Do you know Plato's allegory of the cave? I am the fire in the cave. I am the beginning and end. You, however, are a little bitch lost in this endless prison which only I can free with my light. Give me bank account information so my rays of light can free you, though be careful of orgasm. The light will make your vagina vibrate as consequence."

[Anonymous No.14259290]

>>14259281
>able to form thoughts of their own, notice their surroundings, etc.
Are you saying that people like your or I can’t do those things?

[Anonymous No.14259302]

>>14259281
I don't think that's exactly what Plato meant though, it was a more metaphysical proposition than just being outside the current trends of society. If you read a lot of old books you pretty quickly get an appreciation for how arbitrary our present set of values and perspectives are, that's not that hard to accomplish. But it's hardly equivalent to understanding Plato's world of forms or something equivalent.

[Anonymous No.14259498]

>>14259302
Did Plato make the allegory as a metaphor for a society that he saw or was it just a theoretical story?

[Anonymous No.14259523]

>>14259498
It had absolutely nothing to do with society.

[Anonymous No.14259560]

The cave is our birthright,
Mother of our plight: of the shadows we fight,
The dead alone see the light.

[Anonymous No.14259584]

>>14259237
>How relevant is Plato’s Allegory of the Cave in today’s society?
As relevant as it has always been. There's nothing special about today.
>What people are out of the cave in today’s scenario?
Me

[Anonymous No.14259785]

>>14259584
And what makes you special bud

[Anonymous No.14259798]

>>14259237
Saw HyperNormalization a few say back. I know it's cliché, but Plato's Cave has never been as relevant as it is now

[Anonymous No.14259799]

>>14259785
Not him, but freedom always starts with yourself. So he might be based, who knows.

[Anonymous No.14259805]

>>14259785
Probably genes mostly.

[Anonymous No.14259842]

>>14259237
The same as it's always been. Getting wrapped up in materialism and controlled by your emotions. A slave to your vices, and a weak mind/spirit.
We are the same people as we were then, with different technology that's all. The fundamental lessons that echoed through the centuries will always remain true. Until we reach the singularity, that is.

[Anonymous No.14259871]

Pierre Grimes has a debatable, but interesting take on Plato and the Cave Allegory He has plenty of lectures and videos on YouTube.

[Anonymous No.14259886]

>>14259237
>What people are out of the cave in today’s scenario?
In 4chan parlance, we call these people "red-pilled." There's no particular group of red-pilled people. It's mostly an individual journey and you'll find these people in any context, but they're fairly rare. The popular belief that world leaders, top academics, critically acclaimed artists, etc. are red-pilled is very wrong. Once you're out of the cave, you no longer crave wealth, acceptance, status, change, etc. and you'll live a happy peaceful life away from pleb problems and desires.

[Anonymous No.14259903]

>>14259798
>Plato's Cave has never been as relevant as it is now
This is what people who never learned any history think--that their specific time period is any special.

[Anonymous No.14259908]

>>14259237

[Anonymous No.14259960]

>>14259237
Those who are deepest into the internet

[Anonymous No.14260026]

>people around me discussion philosophy
>not really discussing it they’re just saying philosopher’s names and calling them interesting

[Anonymous No.14260037]

>>14259903

Based

[Anonymous No.14260053]

>>14259237
reminder that what we call lucid dreaming was the default way that the ancient Greeks perceived dreaming to be, the allegory gains a completely new layer of meaning once you take that in account

[Anonymous No.14260077]

>>14259237
>What people are out of the cave in today’s scenario?
/pol/

[Anonymous No.14260094]

>>14260077
/po/ is more like entering a separate cave with strobelights and acid

[Anonymous No.14260108]

>>14260094
sounds like a massive upgrade T B H

[Anonymous No.14260125]

>>14259842
>>14259302

the only answers ITT

[Anonymous No.14260261]

The cave is an allegory of the way in which a person takes for granted the truth of what they perceive without trying to understand the root of all they perceive. For Plato, this root was the world of forms, but the metaphor works even if you don't believe in forms.
>>14260094
/pol/ is more like noticing some reoccurring pattern in the shadows so you get up to take a look but you trip and fall down a gap in the rock off to the side of the stage and when you land at the bottom you see another "screen" with flickering shadows but this time you can clearly see a bunch of people dressed in replica airsoft outfits standing in front of the fire making shapes with their hands and when you ask them they deny it and tell you you've been tricked "by the Jew" but even though you're a bit concussed you can still clearly tell they're lying

[Anonymous No.14260277]

>>14260077
>>14260261
/pol/ only has half the pieces yet believes it has solved the puzzle already

[Anonymous No.14260573]

>>14259237

PicRel is an extended practical exploration of the Cave Allegory fwiw

https://b-ok.cc/book/988990/88efb2

[Anonymous No.14260585]

>>14259903
Peter Heather and Marc Bloch taught me this lesson well

[Anonymous No.14260586]

>>14259237
To be out of the cave you must be making a comfortable living doing something that you love. If you care about how society views you or strive to be respected by others then you are in the cave.

[Anonymous No.14260588]

>>14259237
>What people are out of the cave in today’s scenario?
The dead

[Anonymous No.14260664]

>>14260053
how so

[Anonymous No.14260733]

>>14259237
>What people are out of the cave in today’s scenario?
boomers

[Anonymous No.14260897]

Plato's cave shows the human dilemma of not being able to perceive the world in any other way than by the tools we are provided with. Surely it is possible to advance from a mere sensual to an intellectual and emotional understanding but the way I always interpretated it, is the lack of doubt we put into our perception of reality. We don't see it as our perception but are under the ignorant impression that our reality is absolute and there is nothing outside of it anymore. For we can not perceive it hence we can not assume it in our desperate need to validate and project our ego onto this world.

[Anonymous No.14260985]

>>14260897
what’s the sun then and the shadows you see before seeing the real forms?

[Anonymous No.14261039]

The allegory of the cave is about Plato's metaphysics + epistemology. It has nothing to do with his political, social, or ethical philosophy.

[Anonymous No.14261048]

>>14261039
>imblying boomers isn't the correct answer
zoomer sizzling intensifies

[Anonymous No.14261061]

>>14261039
Idiot. All Plato's philosophy is based on the theory of forms.

[Anonymous No.14261069]

>>14259903
I'm not sure. Have we ever had VR and smartphones before? It seems to me those are a very physical and direct manifestation of the cave and an easy way to see people trapped staring at shadows on a canvas.

A deeper layer of the cave metaphor is something that someone who studies mathematics/physics sees. Also mystics understand this point well. That the whole of reality as we perceive it with our senses is an abstraction from the true reality. This is a deeper meaning to the cave allegory than mere mass media, but mass media is the more dangerous one to us in our present day.

[Anonymous No.14261128]

>>14261069
You're not very smart are you?

[Anonymous No.14261134]

>>14259237
the cave is ur smartphone

[Anonymous No.14261133]

>>14261128
This post added nothing to the conversation.

[Anonymous No.14261213]

People that don't care about outside forces and instead focus on the changes they can do.

[Anonymous No.14261233]

>>14259237
Astral projection

[Anonymous No.14261245]

>>14260277
/xpol/ is the reddest pill

[Anonymous No.14261251]

>>14259908

So primal urges are preventing me from some higher truth?

[Anonymous No.14261273]

>>14260077
/pol/ provides a cost-effective pack: there's one light, one hand-rubbing cutout, and you do the projecting by yourself.

[Anonymous No.14261293]

>>14260664
if you perceive your dreams to be as real as "reality" that you wake up to every morning like when you are lucid dreaming you start questioning the nature of reality itself since the dream that you know is a dream presents itself through the same senses which you use to perceive waking reality
you end up in a situation where real life is no more real than a dream because you can't distinguish them, not through the senses anyway
which is where I suppose the world of forms, something that is above and beyond both dream and reality you share with others, comes in

I have no idea what I'm talking about, it's just a thought I pursued back when I was wondering about descriptions of dreams being more vivid and important when reading classic stuff
Which then in turn led me to the question "maybe lucid dreaming used to be the default way of experiencing dreams rather than the opposite and our modern lifestyle affects our ability to lucid dream" and how does this change anything

[Anonymous No.14261309]

>>14261273
>t. Silhouette

[Anonymous No.14261321]

>>14261251

Yes

[Anonymous No.14261361]

>>14259237
Is this a good breakdown for zoomers?

- Reality is defined by 2 "illusions"
natural light- physical senses, measurements, quantifiable things
Law/social law/language

These "lights" caste image upon the earth as reality, how we perceive reality is dependent upon these lights.

Even though you are chained, you can get up and leave the cave, as it is all an illusion.

Leaving the cave is the dismissal of the "shadow of the self", one can only know thyself once it can see itself. In the cave, one is subjected only to the shadow of themself and their judgements of reality are based only on the image of the self cast by the lights, rather than the true self (normie faggots).

When normie faggots figure this shit out, they can finally feel some existential trust in reality beyond the physical.

[Anonymous No.14261399]

>>14260077
/pol/ doused the fire, but they're still sitting in the cave, staring at shadows. The fire is weaker and the natural light somewhat stronger, but all they need to do is get out of the cave they use to justify the fact that they still judge themselves against other people, which is the nature of the shadows.

[Anonymous No.14261425]

>>14259237
I am convinced more each day that other people are just shadows being cast. Kind of scared I'm entering solipsism.

[Anonymous No.14261583]

>>14261361
You could just do it easier and talk about what rumors are.
Rumors are a perfect example of Plato's Cave Allegory.

Have you seen it? Does it exist? Is it true?
No, its most likely not, but you have heard some spicy words about it, so it must be true!

[Anonymous No.14261589]

>>14259908
This is the best one.

[Anonymous No.14261600]

>>14261251
Yes.

[Anonymous No.14261727]

It's been outdone.

[Anonymous No.14261735]

>>14259908
Christcucks: The Absolute State

[Anonymous No.14261772]

>>14261735
nobody respects them yet they never stop
maybe they are powered by god..

[Anonymous No.14261803]

>>14259290
He is saying you can't

[Anonymous No.14261815]

>>14259237
Shit allegory and is mostly used as immaterialist/Gnostic/Neoplatonic propaganda. It has been made irrelevant by science.

There is still 0 physical evidence for a perfect immaterial "true" world that exists outside of the material one. Believing otherwise is just a cope.

[Anonymous No.14261819]

>>14261134
Sounds very boomer but I think youre onto something. I believe the internet is what makes people drones. Before them, I think it was a blind sense of conformity and fitting in. Even hippies fit into their own group even if they were going against the supposed status quo

[Anonymous No.14261873]

>>14261815
?
It falls nicely in line with what Descartes later argued for. And what Descartes argues for later falls in line with the limitations of human sight, and why Microscopes where a significant addition to empirical science.
We don't see atom or elemental particles. We have to measure them, or use devices to get past the limitation of our eye sight. What we see is the end result of natural interaction at a micro and macro scale so beyond us, that impossible to record and interact properly with it without Empirical research.
Chemical reactions at our human level falls well in line with Plato's Cave: We merely see the end result at a much larger scale


From a social science perspective, it can't really be outdone because it rumours works on the mechanism proposed in Plato's cave.
Its also the core mechanism of how a society functions: The state has a monopoly of Violence, however it rarely need to use that violence because the people living in the state is used to the interaction being normal.
Its the core mechanic for raising children: Children will perceive anything they see as normal, unless stated otherwise.


What I remember from Ex Phil and Philosophy classes, is that the teaching material; and teachers failed to address Plato's Cave, just like they failed to address philosophies that is related to Plato's Cave.

[Anonymous No.14261909]

>>14261735
I don't believe in God and agree with it.

[Anonymous No.14262096]

>>14260077
/pol/ is just the other cave next door.

[Anonymous No.14262214]

>>14259237
If you browse 4chan you are outside the cave

[Anonymous No.14262342]

>>14262214
4chan is just a different cave, friend

[Anonymous No.14262369]

>>14261069
Modern communication systems just expedite communication channels that were already there, and create a broader reach for people too. We're still the same species communicating though

[Anonymous No.14262388]

>>14259237
>What people are out of the cave in today’s scenario?
People who don't blindly follow the climate gospel, fascists, anti-natalists.

[Anonymous No.14262398]

>>14262388
The climate Apocalypseis the roaming bandits coming to kill everyone inside the cave

[Anonymous No.14262479]

>>14259237
It's no longer relevant. Everything's a simulcra now

[Anonymous No.14262498]

>>14262479
"Everything is a simulacra" is no longer relevant.
Artistic creatures of creativity are people too.
Everything is alive (pan-organicism) now.

[Anonymous No.14263428]