/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.14258894]

Is this part of what Mark Fisher refers to as "late capitalism" and "capitalist realism"? Where do we go from here?

[Anonymous No.14258997]

>>14258894
Back to the Middle Ages after collapse.

[Anonymous No.14259147]

>>14258997
Can you elaborate on that

[Anonymous No.14259191]

>>14259147
If things keep going the way they are we'll loop back around to a feudal contract

[Anonymous No.14259279]

>>14259147
Read BAP

[Anonymous No.14259372]

Capitalist realism is about not being able to picture a world aside from the current model. I don't think he used "late capitalism" because he didn't believe it would ever end

[Anonymous No.14259378]

weak men -> hard times -> strong men -> good times

[Anonymous No.14259383]

This is more Baudrillard than Fisher

[Anonymous No.14259470]

>>14259383
What would Baudrillard say about this image?

[Anonymous No.14260136]

>>14258894
>Where do we go from here?
Straight to hell, what did you think?

[Anonymous No.14260312]

>>14259378
gay men -> gay sex -> more gay men - > more gay sex

[Anonymous No.14260336]

>>14259378
boomer memes -> some reference to Rome -> some reference to Weimar germany -> your children don't love you

[Anonymous No.14260541]

>>14260136
>Straight to hell
But we're already there

[Anonymous No.14260555]

>Consumerism leads to people choosing whichever product is more ethically produced
>we find a working blend between nature and architecture
Hopefully this

[Anonymous No.14260557]

>>14259470
grab a fucking book and read it, you american cumbrain

[Anonymous No.14260569]

>>14260555
we find a better blend*

[Anonymous No.14260710]

>>14259372
>I don't think he used "late capitalism" because he didn't believe it would ever end
you're wrong

[Anonymous No.14260721]

>>14259372
is his implicit message to commies that their ideology is in fact as retarded as trying to change the laws of nature and they would be better off killing themselves?

[Anonymous No.14260730]

>>14260557
Spring-loaded eurobutthurt response....

[Anonymous No.14260732]

>>14260721
The laws of nature dictate that men cannot hoist and throw boulders at each other, and yet it wasn't that far along in history that man made the catapult.

[Anonymous No.14260745]

>>14260312
>gay sex -> more gay men
I'm not so sure about this one

[Anonymous No.14260760]

>>14258894
Mark Fisher literally killed himself because nobody wanted to have sex with him.

[Anonymous No.14260857]

>>14259279
Definitely not.
>It is only through a lot of unnatural cosmetics (which includes not only makeup, but plastic surgery, fancy clothes, hair removal, tanning, and so on) plus extreme efforts that go beyond nature (extreme dieting, physical exercise far more than is normal, and so on) that woman can be considered sexually appealing in anything but a prehistoric, grotesque sense.
http://www.thephora.net/forum/showthread.php?t=74241

[Anonymous No.14260876]

>>14259378
Funny how the people who repeat this meme are always the ones who have never read an actual history book
>>14260555
That looks boring and souless

[Anonymous No.14260900]

>>14258997
this

[Anonymous No.14260936]

>>14260760
Source?

[Anonymous No.14261153]

>>14260936

[Anonymous No.14261190]

>>14258997
Can't wait.

[Anonymous No.14261202]

>>14260876
>That looks boring and souless
Post what you think looks good anon, please :3

[Anonymous No.14261254]

>>14260745
I dunno anon the population of homosexuals seems to be increasing

ÒwÓ

[Anonymous No.14261342]

>>14258894
>Where do we go from here?
gonna put my money on "Capital Pragmatism" within some sort of constraining boundary
NOW I'm tempted to say that constraining boundary to be on the level of a nation but I'm having my doubts to be perfectly honest since it might as well swing all the way to tribalism/local community depending on how weakened the state becomes

[Anonymous No.14261620]

>>14258894
Why this pic makes commies seethe so much?

[Anonymous No.14261682]

>>14260876
>That looks boring and souless

[Anonymous No.14261726]

>>14261620
cause most people think of religion as something seperate from the marketplace. The realm of the 'spiritual' can not be corrupted by market forces in their mind. While they may not be religious, they like to imagine that some mystical space exists that is not subject to supply and demand. It's a bad reading of the story of Christ chasing the money changers out of the temple. Yet, most people fail to realize that religion has often been a key factor in supporting market forces. It is only Axial Age religions (Christianity, Taoism, Islam) that begin imagining the space of the spiritual as something seperate from the market. That is why the idea of debts being forgiven by an almighty God or a harmonious social order is such a major innovation in this period.

If you want to know more about the relationship of religion to markets and debt, I highly recommend pic related

[Anonymous No.14262403]

>>14261726
Thanks for the rec, I always assumed it was a pop history. Does it have footnotes?

[Anonymous No.14262418]

>>14258894
Late Capitalism = capitalism has existed for a long time, and entered into basically everything.

Capitalist Realism = the average person can't imagine a system of economics other than capitalism, even though he could easily imagine the end of his people, nation, or even the world.

[Anonymous No.14262820]

>>14261620
Why does the right pretend there is nothing wrong with it

[Anonymous No.14263472]

>>14258894
Late Capitalism isn't Mark's idea, I forgot who used it first but it's ultimately based in the Marxist idea about capitalism's presumed shelf-life. I use the phrase myself as shorthand for a lot of qualities associated with the current neoliberal economy and structure, but I actually find the phrase too teleological - how do we know if this is 'late' capitalism? How do we know the stages it might follow, if we're still undergoing it? And who says there is one capitalism with one outcome? Too much is being presumed.

Anyways, I read Mark's whole blog back when he was writing it because it seemed interesting, but ultimately found I agree on quite a lot but disagree on quite a bit too. But I think a lot of what some people who come across him and are newer to theory might be impressed with, they don't realize he got from other writers. His whole Capitalist Realism is just a paraphrase of some Zizek idea plus a lot of Jameson ideas. All the observations about the workplace nowadays and how you have to be 'on' all the time, constantly working, etc, he gets from stuff like Christian Marazzi and a lot of Italian Marxists. There's very little he actually ads of his own, besides more just a certain sensibility and tone, but even this is largely derived, besides from his postpunk era tastes, from Nick Land's whole 'cold' kind of cyber gothic thing.

But Fisher has limits, he didn't seem to be able to think past 2004 or so. His readings seem to go up to about that point and then the world really moves past him and I think he knew this, supposedly he was lamenting that he felt he didn't have his finger on the pulse now. I'd felt that way about him since at least 2008. Oh well, like anyone, I have a bit of use for him, but not that much. Mainly just as okay-ish commentary on stuff on 'late capitalist' economies and work life, but I'd rather read Marazzi or Byung-Chul Han for that kind of thing, but unlike most follower-y hacks who'd read Fisher, I actually have read my shit and know Mark isn't that original.

[Anonymous No.14263478]

>>14258997
This, and thats a good thing. Anyone who isnt a Capitalist Accelerationist at this point is just wasting everyone's time time

[Anonymous No.14263492]

>>14259470
Culture of consumption, dawg.

[Anonymous No.14263502]

>>14263478
Anyone who says they're 'accelerationist' is larping. Nobody knows if they can have any effect on anything, as I said above you can't have a teleological view of systems, we don't know how they might turn out, or what comes next. We don't know how exacerbating some problem in society, or helping some systemic feature, or obstructing it, or whatever else, is ever going to do. There are too many factors, too many conscious parties who can respond in any way. Too many complex moral considerations that don't care about your larpy Joker-tier bullshit. Too many families and ordinary people who demand stability and aren't going to just give way to Mad Max chaos, or even if a system collapses, will more likely turn to some rigid conservative structure than some stupid utopian Marxist one.

It's just so stupid. Basically anyone who would larp about the idea probably just means that they post racebait and joker memes and think they're 'willing the catastrophe' but meanwhile sane normal people are just raising families and trying to get by and don't care about stupid culture wars and you're just an irrelevant asshole.

[Anonymous No.14263518]

>>14263502
>Basically anyone who would larp about the idea probably just means that they post racebait and joker memes


Friend, I dont think you know what an "Accelerationist" really is


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9srhgHzUFd4&t=1037s

[Anonymous No.14263520]

>>14263502
no one has to predict what happens afterwards, because that is up for grabs. but it is baked in that the current fiat money system with debt growing exponentially faster than productivity and leftards everywhere dreaming of how they can spend this fake money on fake solutions cannot persist indefinitely as the reality gap has grown too large. accelerationism in this sense means that those in denial of these implications because they choose not to see them are going to have their heads taken out of the sand for them

[Anonymous No.14263559]

>>14260555 (checked)
Unfortunately consumerism and capitalism benefit from unethical and destructive behaviour, and the consumer can only choose from the choices that are presented to them. After all, there's more profit to be made from raw materials acquired through cheap slave labour than bought properly, and less cost in dumping toxic waste in ditches that paying for processing them.
And if someone or something stands in the way of exploiting these externalities, then they'll be deal with, one way or another. Sometimes lobbying and regulatory capture is enough, and sometimes more severe action must be undertaken.

[Anonymous No.14263579]

>>14260555
is this mindcraft?

[Anonymous No.14263669]

>>14263518
I'm sure I have more insight on it than you. And it's not some codified or formalistic thing with any particular technique or ideology or desired outcome. People who say it's about speeding up capitalism to its end are just paraphrasing inaccurate descriptions they heard from others.

>>14263520
Well, that's the thing, there is so much speed and disruption inherent in the system already that any kind of conscious 'accelerationism' on the part of any self-described intellectual is extraneous or actually completely a non-factor because they influence jack shit besides a few words going between themselves and a couple acquaintances. What you describe there is just strains on the system that are already there, not some 'accelerationism' as in any kind of theory or practice additionally brought in and having any influence. As I said, accelerationism is just larping, it's a non-entity practically.

[Anonymous No.14263719]

>>14258997
Nope. Automated production. I wouldn't mind the middle age, But if it was the case, 90% of the population would die. We couldn't feed them without modern farming machines and fertilizers.

[Anonymous No.14263720]

>>14263719
You say that like it’s a bad thing

[Anonymous No.14263727]

>>14259378
Basic /poltard meme. Doesn't work like that.

[Anonymous No.14263731]

>>14258894
The bourgeois have become legion. I honestly wish that the academy taught Veblen more than it taught Marx; we might have avoided this.

[Anonymous No.14263745]

>>14263720
It will probably be good. But people will get lost in VR nonetheless. Fertility rates will be less than 1. Humans will begin to merge with the machines.

[Anonymous No.14263757]

>>14263731
Yeah like the academy teach Marx a lot :s
Nobody has read Marx. Not even you. We are probably less than 1/1000th having read Marx, and less than 1/100000 having read Marx's whole work.

[Anonymous No.14263767]

>>14263757
>Yeah like the academy teach Marx a lot :s
At least in the USA, the curricula of most non-religious universities are heavily influenced by Marx and Marxist thinking.

[Anonymous No.14263787]

>>14263767
What texts do they read? I'm genuinely curious. Colleges in my country make you read only excerpts from Marx, you don't read the whole Capital or anything like that

[Anonymous No.14263850]

>>14263472
>Late Capitalism isn't Mark's idea
Neither is Capitalist Realism.
http://www.sinistra.net/lib/upt/comlef/cote/cotesdacoe.html
>So we have gone a full circle, both the reformists and capitalists offer «realism»: and marxists by offering an escape from this capitalist realism, by offering Communist Realism, receives an audience in the working class at a point where marxism becomes indispensable. But this is only effected by attacking both capitalism and reformism at the same time.
From 1996. The term itself was also used much earlier but in another context.

[Anonymous No.14264934]

>>14258894
>Where do we go from here?
Pol Pot style National Primitivism

[Anonymous No.14266314]

>>14261726
based anarchist revivalism

>boomer: you damn anarchists!!1 tax is theft
>le based anarchist: i quite agree sir
>boomer: ...
>le based anarchist: and so is property...
>boomer: *mind explodes*

[Anonymous No.14267244]

>>14261153
kek

[Anonymous No.14268125]

>>14259279
Read BRAAAP