/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.14222858]

was it, dare I say, kino?

[Anonymous No.14222997]

felt like the entire time i was included in on an inside joke

very enjoyable

[Anonymous No.14223214]

The Pontius Pilate novella was better than the actual novel. That''s not a knock on M&M, it was just very good.

[Anonymous No.14223323]

>>14222858
Yes actually

[Anonymous No.14223353]

>>14222858
absolute kino
>>14223214
reminded me (in a way) of the grand inquisitor in the brothers karamazov

[Anonymous No.14223440]

>>14223214
pilate's anxiety over whether he had said enough or heard enough of yeshua's speech unironically strengthened my faith

[Anonymous No.14223515]

Yes, very much kino.
>>14223214
The Pilate bits were the kino of kino.

[Anonymous No.14223528]

>>14223214
>The Pontius Pilate novella was better than the actual novel

That's the part that made it such a deep novel.

I need to reread M&M at some point. I feel I will understand it at a much greater level now than I did in high school.

[Anonymous No.14223643]

>>14223528
in which country do you read M&M in high school?

[Anonymous No.14223761]

>ywn be a state poet in the Soviet Union

[Anonymous No.14223779]

>>14223643
Russia retard

[Anonymous No.14223842]

A friend of mine was about halfway through this book when she killed herself. She had no indication that she was going to. I sometimes wonder if she would have chosen differently had she finished it.

[Anonymous No.14223934]

>>14222858
I liked the story but the writing felt awful. I later found out those P&V jokers are hacks. Still need to go re-read it with a different translation.

[Anonymous No.14224471]

>>14223934
Yeah i couldn't believe it when i found out one of them literally doesn't know any Russian.

[Anonymous No.14225241]

>>14222858
After living in Moscow for a number of years and dealing with people and bureaucracy of this god forsaken place, i appreciate this book more. I am not an artist by temperament, so I could not bring myself to relate to the actual main plot of the book on any level. As good as the book is, i can only enjoy the peripheral aspects of it.

[Anonymous No.14225255]

>>14224471
>one of them literally doesn't know any Russian.

This can't be true.

[Anonymous No.14225259]

>>14225241
No one cares if you "only enjoy the peripheral aspects of" the book. What a dumb thing for you to write here.

[Anonymous No.14225375]

>>14223643
You also read it in Poland, at least in the AP Polish language classes.

[Anonymous No.14225417]

>>14225241
>I'm not an artist
>i could not bring myself to relate to the actual main plot
Maybe it's less about artistry and more about mental retardation

[Anonymous No.14226783]

>>14223214
this

[Anonymous No.14226852]

>>14223934
The Burgin and O’Connor translation is breddy good

[Anonymous No.14226868]

>>14224471
>>14225255
Not quite
https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/the-pevearsion-of-russian-literature/

>Pevear and Volokhonsky, who are married, work in an unusual fashion. She, a native Russian speaker, renders each book into entirely literal English. He, who knows insufficient Russian, then works on the rendering with the intention of keeping the language as close to the original as possible. What results from this attempt at unprecedented fidelity is a word-for-word and syntax-for-syntax version that sacrifices tone and misconstrues overall sense.

[Anonymous No.14226870]

>>14223842
the second half isn't better. the whole book is a chore.

[Anonymous No.14227099]

>>14222858
Best translation? Thinking of reading it.

[Anonymous No.14227148]

>>14222858
>>14227099
And do any translations have notes throughout the pages, like clearing up certain difficulty's in translation?

[Anonymous No.14227496]

>>14227099
Bump for interest. I bought the P&V version f M&M and I feel like a chump, I read their version of Notes from the Underground and it seemed... off, after I had read C&P translated by David McDuff. He seems to be the go to guy for Dosto, at least.

[Anonymous No.14227514]

>>14227496
Could I get a qrd on each of these?

Appreciate it in advance.

[Anonymous No.14227532]

>>14227099 I read this one and liked it, it also has plenty of notes. The P&V translation is notoriously bad and earlier translations have parts of the text missing. Some people are also partial to Ginsberg but I haven’t read that one. Here is a goodreads discussion that goes into more depth comparing translations https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/618738-mikhail-bulgakov-s-the-master-and-margarita

[Anonymous No.14227561]

>>14227148
>clearing up certain difficulty's in translation
...
>difficulty's
...

I wouldn't worry your pretty little head about translator's notes if I were you. You're just not at the level where it would make any meaningful difference.

[Anonymous No.14227565]

>>14227514
If you're talking about translation strength I can help; also can if you mean literary strength of the books.

I would start with Notes from the Underground if you haven't read Dostoevsky before. The Underground man is a prototype of a character he reuses and refines over time in various iterations in later works. The Underground man is very similar to Raskolnikov from C&P, not by coincidence.

The translation I read of Notes was P&V, and it was very dull and seemed washed of a lot of the introspective intensity of Dosto. The only way I would have known is that I had read the McDuff translation of C&P before

Crime and Punishment is excellent, and one of the western canon that makes all sorts of 'best of all time' lists. Similar themes to Notes, less condensed, a longer arching plot. Many beautiful moments, i.e. the reading of the story of Lazarus. Ultimately about the necessity of a personal relationship with God in our own lives.

Both are great intros to existential thought. I wish you the best of luck. I will pray for you.

[Anonymous No.14227584]

>>14227532
So it seems there are two translations which one should read:

>>14222858 (Ginsberg which is the most accurate in every respect except for its translation specifically of the censored soviet version.)
>>14227099 (Burgin/O'Connor which is the second most accurate if not equal to the Ginsberg translation however is the primary translations chiefly because it contains the entire un-soviet-edited book.)

Thanks anon, you've been a big help. Will buy both and read together.

[Anonymous No.14227588]

>>14227561
Alright brainlet. Imagine not understanding correct punctuation.

[Anonymous No.14227598]

>>14227565
>Both are great intros to existential thought. I wish you the best of luck. I will pray for you.
Cheers anon, also greatly appreciated. So I'll have to read Dosto before Bulgakov, fair enough.

[Anonymous No.14227642]

>>14227584
Why would you read the version of a book that is censored by the government that the text was a satire of? It sounds like you could just jump right to Burgin.

[Anonymous No.14227671]

>>14227642
Because they were too dumb to realise it was a satire, and because her translation of the actual content is the best. It's just it lacks all of the content hence reading two at once.

[Anonymous No.14227678]

>>14227671
Yeah, reading the Goodreads thread I defeinitely like the Ginsberg the best, but I am a bit skeptical that it is censored. You really think reading two at once is best?

[Anonymous No.14228046]

>>14223934
I read the P&V translation and liked it, but I bought another translation (Burgin) to compare. I loved it the first time, looking forward to revisiting the work.

[Anonymous No.14228133]

>>14222858
Holy shit finally this book gets some recognition on here. Tied for my favorite novel with Kokoro.

[Anonymous No.14228191]

>>14228133
If I liked Master and Margarita would I like Kokoro? It's on my to-read list, but kinda low.

[Anonymous No.14228210]

Just started reading it this week, enjoyable so far

[Anonymous No.14228271]

>>14228191
I love them both for different reasons. I don't think Kokoro is related to M&M.

Some questions regarding whether or not you would enjoy Kokoro.
1. Are you a man?
2. Have you ever truly been in love?
3. Do you carry honest and considerable regret for actions in your past?

If you answer yes to 2/3 of these questions I think you should reach Kokoro asap. This is the edition I own.

[Anonymous No.14229750]

>>14228271
Alright, I'll give this a read. Thanks anon.

[Anonymous No.14229775]

>>14222858
>that söy cover

[Anonymous No.14230415]

>>14223643
The US oddly enough, I was lucky to have a great Literature teacher my last year.

[Anonymous No.14230421]

>>14229775
Based vodka choice

[Anonymous No.14231722]

>>14229775
Based.

[Anonymous No.14231866]

>>14223643
Russia and probably Ukr*ine.

[Anonymous No.14232168]

>>14227678
>You really think reading two at once is best?
Probably not, but I think it should be fine to flick back and forth between the two at times. The Burgin/O'Connor translation didn't really lose all that much though, like I mean Ginsberg may technically be better but I don't think the difference is massive.

[Anonymous No.14232205]

>>14229775
What translation is that and how good it is in contrast to these two>>14227584

Thank you in advance.

[Anonymous No.14232229]

>>14222858
Literature gets me more hyped than anything else.
>the beginning of TBK where Dostoevsky writes that Fyodor was reported to have laughed and celebrated the death of his wife by some, and by others that he mourned her, and he simply writes “perhaps both are true.”
>towards the end of Moby-Dick where Starbuck nearly convinces Ahab to give up the chase after Moby Dick, And he softens for a moment, “That glad, happy air, that winsome sky, did at last stroke and caress him; the step-mother world, so long cruel- forbidding- now threw affectionate arms round his stubborn neck, and did seem to joyously sob over him, as if over one, that however wilful and erring, she could yet find it in her heart to save and to bless.“
>the whole hell sermon in Portrait of the Artist
kino as hell man

[Anonymous No.14232688]

>>14232205
It's Wordsworth so probably a university language student tier translation, they're like $2 each for a reason.

[Anonymous No.14232734]

>>14232688
Dang, the cover ooked nice, wi bu anwa for show.

[Anonymous No.14232836]

If I disliked Heart of a Dog do you think I can enjoy this?

[Anonymous No.14233933]

>>14222858
My sister wants this for christmas.
She based?

[Anonymous No.14233961]

>>14222858
I didn't like the ending. I thought the slight twist before it would've made a better one.

[Anonymous No.14235328]

>>14228210
>this week
>he hasn't already finished it
Never gonna make it.

[Anonymous No.14236031]

>>14233933
Is she single?

[Anonymous No.14236126]

>>14232836
M&M is one of the most beautiful books I've ever read and I was underwhelmed by Heart of a Dog. Maybe if I went into it with lower expectations I would've liked it, but it barely has a fraction of the value of M&M.