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/lit/ - Literature

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14214415 No.14214415 [Reply] [Original]

>“Every time I describe a city I am saying something about Venice. Memory’s images, once they are fixed in words, are erased. Perhaps I am afraid of losing Venice all at once, if I speak of it. Or, perhaps, speaking of other cities, I have already lost it, little by little.”

Why doesn't /lit/ talk about Calvino and 'Invisible Cities'? I've never read something so damn comfy in my entire life.

>> No.14214659
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14214659

AAAAAAAAA

>> No.14214661

>>14214415

The only Calvino book I have on my shelf is Baron in The Trees but I'm waiting until I get more of his works to read it since from what I understand it is part of a trilogy.

>> No.14214665

LONG LIVE THE DOGE

>> No.14214694

>>14214661
The other books in the trilogy are The Split Count and The Invisible Knight. (I might be wrong about the titles in English) They're all pretty short, under 150 pages. Definitely should read them.

>> No.14215196

Wait a second there anon. I thought Invisible Cities was one of the most beloved collections of short stories on /lit/... It's usually around the 50s in top 100.

Comfiest rest of them all. Up there at the top of my list.

I was considering picking up Cosmicomics next, has anyone read it here? Is it on par with the usual Calvino genius?

>> No.14215204

>>14215196
cosmicomics was not my favorite. invisible cities and if on a winters night are top two imo

>> No.14215486

>>14215196
Cosmicomics is absolutely genius-tier, but I have a feeling the English translation is bad, because I've heard various anons say they didn't like it too much. Really strange desu, the Italian book is 10/10, and one of the first postmodern works in literature. Also I challenge you to find anything similar.

>> No.14215534

>>14215196
I guess Calvino (and Italian lit in general) has fallen out of style on /lit/.

>> No.14215821

>>14215534
If only you knew how many authors of Italy were never translated or were published by anglos in shitty editions... The average person who posts on /lit/ has a very inadequate perception of modern Italian literature. Just think, Leopardi was translated into English two centuries after his death. Unbelievable, right?

>> No.14216109

>>14215821
Do you know of any surrealist or metaphysical writers? I know De Chirico's brother Alberto Savinio was a writer but I haven't looked too much into his works. Other than him I know of no writers who fit into those movements.

>> No.14216464
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14216464

>>14216109
Alberto Savinio was an amazing man. His books are the transposition of Metaphysical art into literature. De Chirico also wrote a novel, Hebdomeros. Otherwise you might want to check out Dino Buzzati (very kafkaesque vibes) and Tommaso Landolfi (sort of like Borges but more unsettling).

Landolfi was a weird writer, kinda difficult to categorize. He was a lonely aristocrat who used to spend most of his time in the casinos of northern Italy, wasting his money and writing short stories on small pieces of paper between rounds of poker and blackjack. He was detached from the cultural scene of his time, had very few supporters and didn't give a shit about success. He was heavily influenced by Russian authors (while most of the Italian intellectuals were all for French and English/American literature at the time) and he translated Dostoevsky, Tolstoy, Cekhov, Gogol. When he died he left an infinity of fragmented works – short stories, short novels, drafts of novels, poems, fairy tales, diaries, aphorisms, essays, plays, nursery rhymes, philosophical reflections... A big mess, but a beautiful one, really. A lot of it is still unreleased. Philologists have been working on this genius for years, and the last volume came out this month (a collection of aphorisms and thoughts, 333 pages). Some of his novels have very surrealist vibes, so I recommend you check out whatever has been translated in your language, it's worth it.

Other writers vaguely creepy or similar to the surrealists were Sciascia, Morselli and Anna Maria Ortese.

>> No.14216537

>>14216464
Very informative. Thanks for the help.

>> No.14216572

I just started reading If On a Winter’s Night a traveler. First Calvino I’ve read. I’m interested.

I kept telling myself I was going to wait until my Italian was good enough, but then I was given an English version as a gift, so fuck it. Reading in Italian is still too frustratingly slow.

>> No.14216730

>>14216572
Keep on learning Italian man, I know it's hard but it will be extremely rewarding, for all the reasons exposed here >>14215821

>> No.14216952

>>14216730
I spent about 10 days in Italy last spring, and was able to get by without too much trouble. But to tackle more serious literature, I have to read slowly with a dictionary to hand, which is frustrating.

Where do I start with Italian lit?

>> No.14217103

>>14216952
Check out this post, it's still in the archive >>14199322

>> No.14217166

>>14216952
>>14217103
>Where do I start with Italian lit?
Calvino, Pavese, Moravia, Bassani, Primo Levi, Carlo Levi... These are easy, but if you want to read older literature you need to practice on older literature (Manzoni for example).

>> No.14217525

>>14214694
>The Invisible Knight
anyone got something to share about this one? consider reading it soon, loved invisible cities and liked if on a winters night

>> No.14217651

>>14214415
Calvino is one of my favorite writers even if he was a commie
I have only one more novel left by him to read (the very first one he wrote)

>> No.14217653
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14217653

I was just about to make a thread, but I think I'll ask here instead.

>Any more books about comfy, kind-of-fantastic fake places?
Books where the autor goes into casual detail while talking about weird shit, without going too deep.
Other examples I can think of right now are some of the works of Ende (The Mirror In The Mirror), Kafka (Odradek), or Borges (The Book of Imaginary Beings).
As well as some of Calvino's work.
No "fantastic realism", but actual fantastic shit.

>> No.14217842

>>14215486
I'm halfway through and I stopped because of feeling less seduced as you mention. It feels like I should appreciate a new origin story for existence, and a riveting one at that, but I started worrying I was reading Star Trek fan fiction. Invisible Cities still blows me away, so it was weird feeling suddenly windless with his Cosmo Technics. I'm going to look at it fresh and see what I'm missing. Calvino is a Master and I concede I barely know what I'm talking about.

>> No.14217878

>>14217653
make the thread

>> No.14217884

>>14214415
>tfw was born in the shitstain that is burgerstan and not anywhere worthy of writing about
burgerpunk fills me with visceral disgust and intense feelings of anxiety

>> No.14217924

>>14217884
take your meds, schizo

>> No.14218109

>>14217884

I feel you here, burgerland makes me anxious. I'm a californian but i want out of burger land. Cultural shit hole.

>> No.14218464

>>14218109
it's an absolute wasteland here. can't step outside without getting assaulted by a hobo, everything is built around the car. want to walk anywhere? too bad, there's nowhere to go! you can buy some fast food or wait in traffic in a car, or head to the local walmart. wow. that's it.

what's inspirational about this? you can't even have a life in this shithole. if you don't want to buy something you're shit outta luck.

>> No.14219884

>>14217842
How can you not like the story of the ascension to the Moon? It's poetic, it's like reading an absurdist version of Leopardi. Or Without Colors, such a lovely poignant story... And the last tale is mind-blowing.

Maybe it's disappointing because you expected more realistic descriptions of fantastic settings? I have noticed several times that English readers have this weird need to visualize what they read. As if the pleasure of reading could only come from clearly defined images, already sketched out by the author for you. Well, it's such a bad habit desu. Calvino compels you to imagine the unimaginable. The settings are completely abstract and the characters have no body because it's you who must create their image. The beauty of the Cosmicomics stems from this mixture (never attempter before) of abstraction and absurdist realism, of nothingness and somethingness.

>> No.14219902

>>14214415
Based quote.

>>14217842
I also dropped Cosmicomics [in English] but totally recommend the collection 'Adam, one Afternoon' if you want some stories.

>>14217653
Gormenghast

>> No.14219933

>>14219884
Not that anon, but the moon story was definitely lovely and one of the bits I'll read again. Without Colours though I can happily leave. To me that's just way too dry and close to the Signpost story, which pretty much sums up what I don't like about the book - a really artificial conceit with some imitation human emotions dumped on top of it, plus endless jokey asides about how he can't really describe this kind of reality with the words he's using to describe it.

Honestly, I'm much happier with something like Marcovaldo. Going back to the OP quote, I think that it's a wonderful moment in IC because it suddenly anchors all those charming images in actual lived experience and shows you the author's feelings. To me, Cosmicomics does a series of imitations of that moment, but most of them don't actually feel earned.

>> No.14219944

>>14219933
Well, I disagree, Cosmicomics are funny and poetic for me and I've never read anything like it.

>> No.14219963

>>14214415
It is my favourite book and I have read it around ten times. Would love to have a map of the square structure of the book, always get lost in the cities. Maybe I'll make it myself but if any anons know a good paper discussing it I'd appreciate it.

Favourite passages?
>Khan and polo sitting silently in front of each other but still conversing
>The wonder of the fickle God Mercury
>Net city whose time is ensuredly finite

I'd rec Borges if you love invisible cities (The lottery for instance)

>> No.14219976

It's a shit book.

>> No.14219992

>>14219976
I'm gonna coom in your mouth

>> No.14220056

>>14219992
Tricked you, haha.

>> No.14220215

>>14219944
It's okay Calvinbro, I still love you

>> No.14220322

I still have a ways to go though Cosmicomics but...

why does cucking come up occasionally with him? Especially the one with the amphibian girlfriend deciding to deevolve into a fish.

>> No.14220340

>>14220322
One of his other books also has this with an Italian woman and American soldiers. Her husband is pretty chill about it...

>> No.14220528

>>14219976
Retard

>> No.14220537

>>14220215
Ohw <3

>> No.14220972

>>14214415
If I hated If on a Winter night, should I even bother with Invisible cities?

>> No.14220974

>>14220972
yes
i love calvino and i think winter night is one of his weakest. the gimmick wears thin and it's super patchy
people just like it because it has a really easy postmodernist hook to understand
invisible cities is a whole different thing that's beautiful, fluid, imaginative and worthwhile