Why are marxists so bad at art?

[Anonymous No.14183611]

[Anonymous No.14183617]

What are you talking about? Hitler was actually a pretty good artist

[Anonymous No.14183628]

>Henry Cow
>Robert Wyatt
>Gang of Four
>Wire
>Manic Street Preachers
>Lizzy Mercier-Descloux
>The Clash
>Crass
>Minutemen
>This Heat
>Stereolab
>Red Krayola
>Iannis Xenakis
>Can
And probably a billion more I'm forgetting. Communists produce the highest quality music and art.

[Anonymous No.14183645]

>>14183628
I thought of this pic of lizzy when I read thread
lefties, commies, post mods make great art
but not the best buddy
lizzy doesnt compare to stravinsky
kafka doesnt compare to dostoevsky
godard doesnt compare to bresson (or even truffaut, who calls out godard for being a rich pretentious communist bitch)

[Anonymous No.14183646]

>>14183628
>lower-middle brow
>greatest art
All marxist art is either collages of stolen works or negro spirited music. You're the lowest denominator, this is the very essence of your ideology, there is nothing elite about it. It has always been for the common people.

[Anonymous No.14183651]

Materialist autism probably.

[Anonymous No.14183661]

>>14183611
Because the pinnacle of socialist art (realism and naturalism) came before Marxism.

[Anonymous No.14183679]

>>14183646
seething fascist
name one significant fascist art movement other than futurism

[Anonymous No.14183690]

>>14183679
>you're fascist if you're not a marxist
At least it must feel good being lobotomized, doesn't it?

[Anonymous No.14183724]

>>14183679
Name one Marxist art movement that wasn't absolute dumpster sludge.

[Anonymous No.14183732]

>>14183690
liberals and moderate right wingers always side with fascists

[Anonymous No.14183751]

>>14183724
surrealism, new wave cinema, l-a-n-g-u-a-g-u-e poetry,

[Anonymous No.14183754]

>>14183724
>dumpster sludge
you mean you don't understand it, that's okay

see New Topographics a mid 70s photography art movement

[Anonymous No.14184023]

>>14183732
>liberals
Yep, even the marxists themselves lean a bit on it. Unless you're an extreme radical you're at best a fascist centrist! The state of your brain.

[Anonymous No.14184032]

>>14183646
>dragging Stocky into this
Truly midwit.

[Anonymous No.14184116]

>>14184032
>once again shows himself as an emotional animal
Based, no need to bother when you can make a fool of yourself.

[Anonymous No.14184121]

>>14183628
But anon...everything you posted is irredeemable garbage

[Anonymous No.14184124]

refutation by counterexample: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtyTeRXB_KM

[Anonymous No.14184138]

>>14184116
Marxists and Astral adventurers are equally embarrassing.

[Anonymous No.14184199]

>>14183724
>suprematism
>marxist
>suprematism bad

[Anonymous No.14184207]

Brecht sucked, sure, but that's because plays are for idiots. The medium is more to blame than the man.

[Anonymous No.14184217]

>>14183617
just go back retard

[Anonymous No.14184288]

Just gonna leave this here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5Z8Bq35d0k

[Anonymous No.14184299]

>>14183628
Communism also produced Sergei Eisenstein, Andrei Tarkovsky, the Strugatsky brothers and a great many very good composers the names of escape me

[Anonymous No.14184306]

>>14183724
Montage cinema would be another

[Anonymous No.14184310]

>>14184299
>Sergei Eisenstein

More of a stepping stone in the history of cinema than an exemplar of the medium.

>Andrei Tarkovsky, Strugatsky brothers

Neither of these were particularly pro-marxism.

[Anonymous No.14184380]

>>14183628
Jaki Liebziet and maybe Irmin Schmidt were the only members of Can with any strong political inclinations, and even then, it would be a mischaracterization to call the band "Marxist." Also, Henry Cow is shit.

[Anonymous No.14184414]

>staying on the theme of intervention art, I recounted how Workers' Struggle, a few days after the fall of the Berlin Wall, had plastered Paris with dozens of posters proclaiming: "Communism Remains the Future of the World." He listened to me with that attentiveness, that childlike seriousness that was beginning to wring my heart before he concluded that although the act had real power, it had, however, no poetic dimension, when you bear in mind that Workers' Struggle was, above all, a party, an ideological machine, and that art was always cosa individuale; even when it was a protest, it only had value if it was a solitary protest.

[Anonymous No.14184436]

>>14183611
They aren't completely bad, it's just that art is an instrument to the communist. They only want it for its instructional and moral value, they slay aesthetics and poetics on the altar of politics. That's why they churn out lots of social realism and similar... the goal of art is to accomplish political goals, or at least to be politically innocuous/obedient enough to pass political censorship. Communists tend to excel at mediums like film where there is more to work with than words, because cinematography has too many variables to play with artistically and censors are unlikely to lock them all down...

In general communists can't write truly great poetry or fiction because they are often too invested in denying or destroying greatness. Think about why there are no significant "SJW" literary works. It's all hamfisted, didactic social realism. In decades and centuries to come no one will care about it.

[Anonymous No.14184493]

>>14184310
> revolutionises the form, laying the groundwork for all serious cinema after
> 'stepping stone'

Also Vertov, Dovchenko and Kuleshov, as well as Godard, Resnais, Marker, Fassbinder, Chaplin, Bertolucci, Kiarostami, Straub-Huillet, Pontecorvo,...

[Anonymous No.14184512]

>>14183611
>>14183628
>>14184299
*ahem*
>Alexander Scriabin (died before the end of the war but said in his letters to friends that his music feels like a precursor to a revolution and ultimate human unity)
>Alexander Mosolov (futurist)
>Nikolai Roslavets (similar avant-garde shit to the previous two)
>Sergei Prokofiev (although a simpleton)
>Dmitri Shostakovich (but he was a little bitch and Stalin's plaything)
>Alfred Schnittke (based)
>Leo Ornstein (not so much this guy but he was a futurist and ultramodernist but moved to the USA early because he was retarded and there people were just confused by his music)

[Anonymous No.14184513]

>>14183724
brutalism.

[Anonymous No.14184522]

>>14184513
Based brutalism

[Anonymous No.14184544]

>>14184512
Try also Mayakovsky, Neruda or Seifert
>Sergei Prokofiev (although a simpleton)
>Dmitri Shostakovich (but he was a little bitch and Stalin's plaything)
Both were just bourgeiose without ideological commitment. Like with Pasternak or Bulgakov it was just an accident they ended up in a communist country.

[Anonymous No.14184546]

>>14184299
lol i bet Tarkovsky literally spit on communism everyday if he could

[Anonymous No.14184582]

>>14183611
They want to erase history and focus on thier own personal achievements (ie power grab)

[Anonymous No.14184586]

>>14183628
>Thinks his stupid rock bands are music

[Anonymous No.14184594]

>>14183690
This

[Anonymous No.14184601]

>>14183611
What? You don't see the loveliness of monolithic gray concrete buildings that house overcrowded impoverished populations?

[Anonymous No.14184604]

>>14183628
The funny thing is that everything you've mentioned was/it would be banned or censored in actually existing socialism, and deemed decadent Western bourgeois capitalist alienating elitist blablabla whatnot praise Lenin
>>14184121
t. pleb
>>14184380
Henry Cow is based though

[Anonymous No.14184622]

>>14183754
>They poor
>Social kahmentary

[Anonymous No.14184624]

>>14183611
Had to study this scumbag in theatre class once. Tedious

[Anonymous No.14184625]

>>14184493
>Fassbinder
The poor guy would be in jail bc of his homosexuality if he were from a commie country, just like they put Paradjanov in jail

[Anonymous No.14184636]

>>14184604
They're a third-rate British Faust knockoff at best. I refuse to believe that they couldn't get their music published in the early 70s because they were "too experimental." They were just shit, boring shit.

[Anonymous No.14184643]

>>14183754
>They poor
>They gots reeificayshons
>Social Kahmentary

[Anonymous No.14184670]

Brecht and Eisenstein do irreparable damage to the artform because their techniques are based around brainwashing the viewer into becoming a marxist or at least a passive proletarian, there's no aesthetic standard for them besides whether or not something is useful to the party. Montage is used often in big budget Disney and Marvel films to hijack the viewers' emotions and 'woke casting' is clearly a brechtian technique for forcing the viewer think about race and gender disparagement etc. Leftists are and always have been failed artists which explains their scorn for art at large and when leftists do manage to become artists they tarnish the artform, as evinced in the so-called 'greats' of Brecht and Eisenstein. Reminder that many of the truly great artists would be condemned as 'backwards-thinking yokels' or fascists were they around today, not because their ideas really were antiquated or dangerous, but because the broader society has shunned artists to such a degree that they're equated with the lowest of the low, a development we ought to be horribly ashamed of.

[Anonymous No.14184687]

>>14184544
>Neruda

[Anonymous No.14184706]

>>14183617
He had no sense of perspective or proportions. Just look at his drawings of human shapes

[Anonymous No.14184716]

>>14183628
Rock music isn’t art, and art rock is an oxymoron. There is no such thing as revolutionary popular music.

[Anonymous No.14184742]

Brecht is fucking glorious, you autist!

[Anonymous No.14184771]

>>14184742
Brecht was the king autist and was more of an aesthetic engineer than an artist. He’s celebrated for no other reason that his propagandistic value.

Op, the real reason is because materialists in general lack the ability to make great art.

[Anonymous No.14184832]

>Isaac Babel
>Bruno Jasieński
>Varlam Shalamov
>Maxim Gorky
They're great, check them.
Their lives are funny because the first two got NKVD'ed, the third spent 20 years in a Siberian fun camp and Gorky just did everything to avoid censorship and save the artists that were going to be killed (even those he hated).

[Anonymous No.14184844]

>>14184771
>Op, the real reason is because materialists in general lack the ability to make great art.
That explains why America and UK are so shit.

[Anonymous No.14184859]

>>14184832
>Their lives are funny because the first two got NKVD'ed, the third spent 20 years in a Siberian fun camp and Gorky just did everything to avoid censorship and save the artists that were going to be killed (even those he hated).
This is very depressing desu

[Anonymous No.14184896]

>>14184832
Every artist to come out of the Soviet Union was second rate except Eisenstein and Bulgakov. They’re best composers make Sibelius look like Mozart.

[Anonymous No.14184916]

>>14184896
Shostakovich is easily the best composer of the 20th century.

[Anonymous No.14184927]

>>14184916
> easily the best composer of the 20th century.
To claim it’s anyone other than Schoenberg is to be talking out of your ass.

[Anonymous No.14184934]

>>14184927
>Hurr hurr western nonsense
I don't care

[Anonymous No.14184954]

>>14184916
He had a hard time with Soviet officials. Fuck communism

[Anonymous No.14184956]

>>14184934
Any Russian composer post-Tchaikovsky is Western music, especially one that takes influence from the western consumerist hyper-nonsense that is jazz.

Schoenberg’s work is as revolutionary as it is beautiful.

[Anonymous No.14184958]

>>14184896
>Sofronitsky
>Yudina
>Gilels
>Richter
>Nikolayeva
The Soviets had the best pianists.

[Anonymous No.14184966]

>>14184927
Schoenberg is trash

[Anonymous No.14184971]

>>14184956
Nobody cares about your "revolutionary" jewish nonsense

[Anonymous No.14185042]

>>14184896
OP specifically cited Marxists and it's dishonest to consider everyone who lived in the Soviet Union (or any other socialist country) a Marxist. I gave a short list of 4 people because they actively fought for Marxist ideas, or I would say Chinghiz Aitmatov, Guillermo Cabrera Infante, Mo Yan and others.

[Anonymous No.14185043]

>>14184956
>western consumerist hyper-nonsense that is jazz.
Shut up retard, go shove Adorno's trashy opinions up your ass

[Anonymous No.14185045]

>>14184971
>communists don’t care about maki g revolutionary art
> for some reason want to create easily consumable kitsch that challenges nothing.
What a world we live in!
>>14184966
It’s hard to think that the man who completed Wagner’s and Liszt’s project was trash. It’s far better than some tacky Russian bubblegum pop played on an orchestra.

[Anonymous No.14185087]

“Kill man’s sense of values. Kill his capacity to recognise greatness or to achieve it. Great men can’t be ruled. We don’t want any great men. Don’t deny conception of greatness. Destroy it from within. The great is the rare, the difficult, the exceptional. Set up standards of achievement open to all, to the least, to the most inept – and you stop the impetus to effort in men, great or small. You stop all incentive to improvement, to excellence, to perfection...
Don’t set out to raze all shrines – you’ll frighten men, Enshrine mediocrity - and the shrines are razed.”

[Anonymous No.14185090]

>>14185045
>completed Wagner’s
No. You could argue for Mahler, but even that would be wrong after like 1912.

[Anonymous No.14185127]

>>14185090
Mahler and Strauss were talented, but it was only Schoenberg who achieved the true potential of Wagner's project and pushed it to its limits.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE No.14185209]

Henri Cartier Bresson

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE No.14185216]

Alexander Rodchenko

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE No.14185219]

Sergei Eisenstein

[Anonymous No.14185228]

>>14185045
>some tacky Russian bubblegum pop played on an orchestra
Ok retard

[Anonymous No.14185232]

>>14184586
That album is bad and you know it

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE No.14185235]

Věra Chytilová

I could go on

[Anonymous No.14185240]

>>14185127
You’re talking to a retard muh western civ /pol/tard. I admire your continued efforts to calmly explain obvious things to him, but it’s probably a waste of time

[Anonymous No.14185285]

It depends.
When I see people putting Resnais and Godard in the list...?
They grew in a capitalist country all their life. They were at max, leftists.
Soviet union produced enormous amount of artists after the 30's and this until the end.

Give me one western artist from the 20th century I can give you an eastern counter part.

[Anonymous No.14185339]

>>14185235
Ah yes, the Czechoslovak new wave that was crushed by the Soviets.

[Anonymous No.14185559]

>>14184436
>the goal of art is to accomplish political goals

And now the goal of art is to accomplish economic goals and its just as much trash.

Art should be for expression.

[Anonymous No.14185674]

>>14185127
>>14185240
Schoenberg's late tonal period was directly influenced by Mahler's third symphony. Mahler himself had been his patron at that time. If you want to conjecture about my intent in arguing this, then I suggest returning to whatever discord server you came from.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE No.14185689]

>>14184601
The western nations have those too.

[Anonymous No.14186719]

Bump

[Anonymous No.14187094]

>>14184625
> "The Nazi additions were repealed in East Germany in 1950, but homosexual relations between men remained a crime until 1968. West Germany kept the more repressive version of the law, legalising male homosexual activity one year after East Germany, in 1969"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Germany

Muh post-war liberalism was progressive and socialism was reactionary

[Anonymous No.14187364]

>>14187094
>Muh post-war liberalism was progressive and socialism was reactionary
It's a fact though. Socialist countries were/are socially reactionary, being gay stopped being a crime in Russia only after the fall of the Soviet Union. To be fair even commies in capitalist countries were homophobic, go read how Pasolini has been treated by his "comrades". It's incredible that there are commies in here when even a great writer like Proust was banned in the USSR because of "bourgeois decadence". Commies aren't friends of art and literature.

[Anonymous No.14187759]

>>14183611
I thought Mother Courage and Her Children was breddy gud

[Anonymous No.14187828]

>>14183628
Now I know why Wyatt, Can and HC are a absolute trash tier of prog.

[Anonymous No.14187834]

>>14183751
>surrealism is inherently marxist

[Anonymous No.14187922]

>>14184513
>>14184522
Imagine being a admirer of a movement that counts Brutalist Architecture as one of its main aesthetic accomplishments.

[Anonymous No.14187968]

>>14187922
communism sucks but brutalism is based

[Anonymous No.14188025]

>>14187968
Its dated and they age horribly structurally. Enjoy your commie block.