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14180164 No.14180164 [Reply] [Original]

Buddhism presupposes a very mild climate, extremely gentle and liberal customs, the complete absence of militarism, and the existence of higher, even scholarly classes to give focus to the movement. The highest goals are cheerfulness, quiet, and an absence of desire, and these goals are achieved. Buddhism is not a religion where people only aspire to perfection: perfection

>> No.14180197

>>14180164
>unironically studying any form of buddhism other than zen

>> No.14180204

>>14180197
What does zen have to offer?

>> No.14180262

>>14180164
buddhism is the reddit of eastern philosophy and metaphysics

>> No.14180263

Then why are all Buddhist countries such shitholes?

>> No.14180266

>>14180204
being braindead is nirvana for intellectuals, especially leftists

>> No.14180277

>>14180164
>very mild climate
yeah, but you still have tummo for cold climates
>>14180164
>extremely gentle and liberal customs,
no, local kings are brainlets and are always be manipulated to be infatuated with hermits claiming to have wisdom
>>14180164
>the complete absence of militarism
there was plenty of militaries

>>14180164
>and the existence of higher, even scholarly classes to give focus to the movement
no, philosophers are worthless for buddhism but the kings think they are skileld.

>> No.14180301

>>14180262
what's the based one
>>14180263
i'm cursing it. did you think i was praising it?
>>14180266
This is particularly why I dislike Buddhism. It explicitly rejects individualism and advises one not to think, rather, to live in the moment. My problem is this: How does one fully live without thinking as to why? It leads to cursing greatness, which is to deny life. I've read the Bhaghavad-Gita and find that Hinduism is opposed to individualism as well. Krishna advises Arjuna to defend himself not because it leads to greatness, but because to do so would be upholding the self. It's a religion which breeds stagnant people.

>> No.14180328

>>14180204
Nothing

>> No.14180341

>>14180301
>what's the based one
Advaita Vedanta, Sufism, Kashmir Shaivism, Taoism, Neoplatonism

>> No.14180342

The problem with Buddhism is that the ethics are very a basic; a hippie smoking weed, who has never heard of Buddhism, can come up with similar ethics, and people start following them. It is not the actual teaching. It is not the Buddha, it is not the dharma. If you want to get to true dharma, it is not the ethics. It is the practice and the right way of doing things. That's where Buddhism is the most accurate. This is because there is no ethics, it is all about the practice and doing the right things.

>> No.14180384

>>14180301
Wanting to achieve greatness would be imbuing oneself with suffering.

>> No.14180466

>>14180301
>just stop thinking bro
is a misconception and has nothing to do with Buddhism. You can’t stop thinking except during specific meditative absorptions which are hardly the point of Buddhism. Buddhism doesn’t teach you to stop thinking.
Individualism is a decadent modernist meme though

>> No.14180491

>>14180277
>tummo
imagine being so based that you can live warm and healthy with robes in freezing temperatures, by literally manipulating your body temperature with your mind
Vajrayana is great

>> No.14180492

>>14180328

Ironically sums up being zen

>> No.14180503

>>14180301
>stagnant people
>he still believes in the linear Western model of “progress” where material conditions are the only measure of “well-being”

>> No.14180553

>>14180503
A great man is a great man by means of his will. Not his material conditions.
>>14180466
Stop thinking bro is essential to Buddhism. What are you talking about? You can't separate meditation from Buddhism, and to meditate is to stop thinking.
>>14180384
And what is wrong with suffering?

>> No.14180589

>>14180553
>to meditate is to stop thinking.
Not quite. Nirvana isn’t the absence of thoughts, but non-identification with thoughts (or with the psycho-physical). Thoughts are no different from sounds or bodily feelings in the way they appear and disappear. How does meditation (again, except for in cases of certain absorptions) preclude thoughts?

>> No.14180705

>>14180164
The problem with Buddhism isn't just that they presupposes all those things. But that it presuppose that everyone else will make those things into a reality. Buddhism presupposes that someone else will defend the land and according to the Buddhists completely destroy themselves for generations to come in order that Buddhism can prosper. Buddhism presupposes that someone else will be doing the slaughtering of cattle so that they can eat, which is why it is so common that the village/town butcher is a Muslim family.

But then again maybe I've misunderstood the precepts. Because if I became a Buddhist monk and decided to go convert the Inuits then they would be dead within a week after having converted, or they would destroy themselves for eons to come through constantly breaking the precepts.

Buddhism would have been the perfect religion without the Right Action part of the Path. Or if it was just "be compassionate toward all living beings" or something along those lines. A hunter can be compassionate but a hunter can not not kill. An Inuit can be compassionate but he can not not fish.

>> No.14180722

>>14180492
You fool, you can't even tie your own boots

>> No.14180813

>>14180705
The precepts are not commandments

>> No.14180825

>>14180722

Thanks

>> No.14180849

>>14180813
What are they? How should I understand them?

>> No.14181262

>>14180849
As I understand them, they are prescriptions against distractions. If you kill, you get distracted by thoughts of what you've killed. If you steal, you get distracted by thoughts of what you've stolen. If you lie, if you participate in sexual deviance (that is, violence, rape or adultery), if you take intoxicants, these things result in a fogged mind. A fogged mind is antithetical to a clear mind, makes it harder to meditate and to reach the highest states of meditation (try it for yourself, you'll see that your mind will return to violations of the precepts). In the simplest terms, the precepts help mitigate the arising of hinderances which in turn help promote the dhanas. They are not commandments in the sense that they are sent down from an unquestionable authority, but obvious principles with a well-established sequence of cause and effect.

There's a bit more to it than that when you also take into consideration that there is no concrete self and everything is action or movement, but that's really more a theoretical concern which should become intuitively obvious with certain insights.

>> No.14181514

>>14180705
Buddhism was never supposed to function as a framework to uphold societal structure a la Confucianism. It's a mystical tradition focusing on personal 'salvation' with a monastic lifestyle pretty much being a requirement. Gotama and his followers were literally hobo's living in the jungle leeching of local villagers/townspeople; Gotama was very much aware of the untenability of this system.
Throughout the suttas, Gotama's advice to lay people is basically (to put it crudely): "Don't break the precepts, accumulate merit, and better luck next life'' (the idea being that you'll hopefully be reborn in an environment where you'll be able to practice his teachings to the fullest extent).
>>14180813
>>14181262
This is Western meme-buddhism. The whole 'it's in your mind bro' specifically, is what you get when you skim the Wikipedia article on Zen, happens to many people.
In the suttas it is made clear over and over again that breaking the precepts is a good way to guarantee a one-way ticket to burning in hell for millions of years (that aspect of Buddhism doesn't jive well with Westerners, but it's in there).
>They are not commandments in the sense that they are sent down from an unquestionable authority
Gotama himself makes the claim that he is the highest 'being' in existence, and he also makes the claim that his teachings are the only way to the complete eradication of suffering; if that's not an unquestionable authority I don't know what is.

But honestly, none of it matters. Buddhism a fucking meme, and I wouldn't bother with it.

>> No.14181534

>>14181514
>But honestly, none of it matters. Buddhism a fucking meme, and I wouldn't bother with it.
What should I bother with then?

>> No.14181601

>>14181514
The precepts still aren't commandments

>> No.14181621

>>14180204
A densely poetic literary tradition.

>> No.14181627

>>14180553
Have you ever actually meditated? The point isn't to completely stop thinking, but to realize that you're thoughts aren't you and not be attached to them. Thinking your thoughts are bad and must be stopped is the same as giving them value, you just let them pass by in your mind as the arise, neither suppressing nor focusing on any of them.

>> No.14181651

>>14181534
shankara's writings

>> No.14181673

>>>14181534
>What should I bother with then?
Bother with living your life as it actually is instead of getting lost in archaic and convoluted ideologies that have stopped serving their purpose hundreds of years ago.

>> No.14181685

>>14181514
>Gotama himself makes the claim that he is the highest 'being' in existence, and he also makes the claim that his teachings are the only way to the complete eradication of suffering; if that's not an unquestionable authority I don't know what is.
Do you mind pointing me to the specific passages he says this in? I'm genuinely curious, is all.

>> No.14181708

progress is meaningless, progress leads to suffering, but I need to progress before I realize this.

>> No.14181715

>>14181651
lel but Advaita monastic life is basically a copypaste from Buddhist monastic life and it is pretty much a requirement. And Advaita precepts(Yamas) are the exact same.

So why pick Advaita? >>14181514

>> No.14181727

>>14181673
>Bother with living your life
I can't. I've read too much existentialism. All human endeavours are rendered absurd at the point of death.

There is a mountain approaching me from the North and it is crushing everything in its path. There are also similar mountains approaching from the south, west and east.

h-help ;^(

>> No.14181747

Why are you copy/pasting from Nietzsche's Antichrist?

>> No.14181761

>>14181514
I felt buddism and confucianism, especialy as when they went to japan, acted a lot like christianity with a lesser focus on what is "right". For good and for bad.

Chistianity has an underlying legalism to it which allowed for upheavel and social developments, while this happened to a much smaller extent with budhism in Japan which had a lot of parreles otherwise. The buhdists were part of the higher esclon of society and had a role in politics and military.

>> No.14181791

>>14181761
I don't remember Buddhists in East Asia tearing down all the pre-Buddhist temples, smashing their "idols" and making it illegal with a death penalty to practice the former beliefs. Buddhists managing to rise to the higher strata of society by what appears to be by merit doesn't seem to parallel with Christianity in Europe.

I honestly see no parallels at all. Could you elaborate?

>> No.14181827

>>14181791
What? Buddhists in Japan purposely undertook a campaign subvert Shinto and nearly succeeded in wiping it off the map.

>> No.14181864

>>14181827
>nearly succeeded in wiping it off the map.
That is complete nonsense. They syncretized and Shinto shrines would have Buddhist temples next to them and vice versa. Buddhists literally said that the kamis were local Buddhas and they would perform the Shinto rituals and the sacrifices for them. Pure Land Buddhism was really the only ones that rejected Shintoism and even they did not do it forcefully.

There was nothing like what happened in Europe. Yeah you could call it subversion if you want and maybe there is some truth to that, but to compare it to the Christianization is crazy.

>> No.14181874

>>14181727
so practice Buddhism and realize that birth and death are like an illusion, unreal, thus freeing yourself from your existential predicament

>> No.14181887

>>14181715
>Advaita monastic life is basically a copypaste from Buddhist monastic life.
the pre-Buddhist Upanishads that Advaita sources those practices from were recommending monasticism and describing those same ethical codes several hundred years before Buddha
>so why pick Advaita?
better metaphysics

>> No.14181912

>>14181874
Buddhist philosophy is all I read these days in terms of philosophy/religion.

I'm so close to joining a monastery but then i watch some Youtube video about western monks which makes me convulse over the fact that I might end up being the only person there with normal testosterone levels. If western Buddhism is nothing but some sort of sissification conspiracy then I don't want anything to do with it.

>> No.14181920

This thread was moved to >>>/his/7569357