/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.14179837]

redpill me on marx. why is the CIA so desperate to convince me he is the bad guy and was wrong about everything?

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE No.14179844]

>>14179837
The CIA are corrupt. Like everything else money touches

[Anonymous No.14179854]

>>14179837
they're not, they just want you to adopt the idea that he was a necessary part of an ongoing historical progression and that while he addressed pressing issues of his time, we are past that phase in our history, because they don't want populations getting too uppity because they want stability and predictable economic outcomes.
their point of view is about as wrong as his, which was also fucking retarded.

[Anonymous No.14179861]

>>14179854
>their point of view is about as wrong as his, which was also fucking retarded.
you're glowing

[Anonymous No.14179879]

>>14179837
He was just a mediocre Whitman lookalike.

[Anonymous No.14179880]

>>14179861
not glowing, shining

[Anonymous No.14179887]

>>14179837
if the CIA and co actually were afraid of Marxism they would have driven it out of the universities and it would be as taboo as fascism, but it's not, it's practically fashionable even now.

[Anonymous No.14179963]

>>14179837
Redpill: both the CIA and Marx are our enemies. Read Bakunin.

[Anonymous No.14180039]

>>14179963 embarrassing.

Marx's critique of capitalism is so thorough and well thought out out, you'd be doing yourself a disservice to not read it.

[Anonymous No.14180207]

>>14180039
Dictatorship of the proletariat = cringe
Smashing the capital and the state = based

[Anonymous No.14180584]

>>14179837
>books freely available in libraries funded by taxpayers
>multiple academic departments producing active scholarship with state provided funding
>tons of followers walking around with clothing/tattoos/artifacts boasting of their appreciation for him
>public television sponsored documentaries
>multiple elected governmental figures espousing ideas from his texts

lol imagine thinking that the CIA is this ineffective in thoughtcrime

[Anonymous No.14180632]

>>14180207
Anarkiddie

[Anonymous No.14180658]

the CIA doesn't give a shit about Marxists because the only ones still around abroad and domestically are a joke. they're more concerned with ISIS. well, assuming the CIA was competent, because they very much are not.

[Anonymous No.14180675]

>>14179887
>>14180584
There's no need to ban it if everyone ends up ignoring actual marxist ideas
>>14180658
>yeah we are incompetent as hell, can't do anything right

[Anonymous No.14180694]

>>14180675
>There's no need to ban it if everyone ends up ignoring actual marxist ideas
that's the natural condition of Marxism, buddy, can't blame all of your retardation on muh CIA niggers

[Anonymous No.14180706]

>>14180658
ISIS is a creation of the CIA you simp

[Anonymous No.14180720]

>>14180658
>they're more concerned with ISIS
Lolno, they already threw them to the dogs. They aren´t providing them with any meaningful support anymore.

Meanwhile in Bolivia and Venezuela however...

[Anonymous No.14180736]

>>14180658
It seems to me that at some point, maybe in the 80s or 90s, the CIA switched from being aligned with the Pentagon to being aligned with State department. I have no idea how the CIA works and how such a thing would occur but that's what it looks like

[Anonymous No.14180739]

>>14179887
Economics departments are neoclassical central in America. The most likely heterodox belief a professor will have is the Austrian school. You'll get taught the Keynesian approach to the business cycle. That's as lefty as you'll get.

[Anonymous No.14180786]

>>14179854
This except he's still right about most things because those issues still haven't been properly addressed

[Anonymous No.14180835]

>>14179887
Who are those "marxists" who flood the universities of United States of Muhrika?

[Anonymous No.14180860]

>>14180835
Richard Wolff is one off the top of my head. And I mean there are things like the Harvard International Socialists. I'm not a Marxist so I don't follow this stuff

[Anonymous No.14180871]

>>14180860
And David Harvey. Anyone else?

[Anonymous No.14180902]

>>14180871
wiki's page on American Marxists as a couple hundred entries. These are not all professors though
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:American_Marxists

[Anonymous No.14180911]

>>14179837
Because Marx is a materialist which is essentially the opposite of the american dream. If more people started reading Marx in the US more people would revolt against the obvious unjustice of the american society.

[Anonymous No.14180937]

>>14180902
most of them being dead and large part born in the XIX century

[Anonymous No.14180996]

>>14179887
i'm at Berkeley and all of my professors are liberal. they think Marxism is too radical

[Anonymous No.14182192]

>>14179837
Just because the CIA hates Marx doesn't mean he was right or that Communism is a good idea. Keep in mind he was funded by Engels, owner of Manchester textile mills, and never held down a real job. Nor did Marx and Engels ever test their theories on Engels' factory. Ask yourself why.

[Anonymous No.14182200]

>>14182192

[Anonymous No.14182234]

>>14180736
The CIA is Mormon.

[Anonymous No.14182250]

>>14182200
duuuuuuuuude.

I get keys now.

Also Marx was not a scientist. :3

[Anonymous No.14182253]

>>14179879
Underrated post.

[Anonymous No.14182254]

>CIA BAD!

[Anonymous No.14182268]

>>14179837
cringe CIA are red af

[Anonymous No.14182274]

>>14182254
>calling someone sheeple because they question the central intelligence agency

lol

[Anonymous No.14182275]

>>14179844
You're corrupt butterfly

[Anonymous No.14182299]

>>14182275
i hope she sees this, dog

[Anonymous No.14182336]

What makes you think the CIA even cares about commiefags OP?

[Anonymous No.14182338]

>>14179880
>>14179880
Based and Europapilled

[Anonymous No.14182445]

>>14182274
The people upset about the CIA make it seem like the most competent and intelligent organ of the US government and if their "criticism" is valid, then its all the more to be praised; if the US ever collapsed, historians would look on it with awe and amazement, as the glue that held the United States of America together. Something so great that Praetorian Guard, and the SS look like childsplay. Everything bad about it that I hear makes me appreciate them even more

>muh coups
Imagine surgically cauterizing one of the most virulent ideologies of all time place by place as it sprung up, preventing most outbreaks, and winning the long-con with the demise of the USSR.
>muh political steering
A great feat, especially considering how retarded most politicians are.
>MKULTRA BAD
They did nothing wrong here. In fact, they should start it anew. We need more experimentation to broaden the understanding of the mind.

[Anonymous No.14182492]

>>14182445
>Imagine surgically cauterizing one of the most virulent ideologies of all time place by place as it sprung up, preventing most outbreaks, and winning the long-con with the demise of the USSR.

lol. what the fuck. yeah, man. all the rampant torturing, raping, and mutilating "our guys" the contras did in nicaragua was totally surgical and v. good at stopping bad things from happening to people. take that, commies!

and supporting the shah's coup and dictatorial reign in iran had no negative repercussions whatsoever.

[Anonymous No.14182518]

>>14182492
I do not care about utilitarian analyses of good or bad. I doubt the had any malice really, to them it was merely "nothing personal, kid." And yes, quite clearly the outcomes were successful for the United States.

[Anonymous No.14182525]

>>14182445
This level of contratianism is pretty based desu

[Anonymous No.14182529]

Damn Stalin looking fine. Lemme smash that bp, comrade

[Anonymous No.14182560]

>>14182518
>destabilizing and radicalizing a major country in the middle east
>successful outcome for the u.s.

>destabilizing and inflaming violence in central america
>successful outcome for the u.s.

lol. what?

[Anonymous No.14182570]

>>14182254
The CIA being good is absolutely the normie position. Literally every normie whether its your boomer aunt to your liberal coworker thinks the CIA is a st op bad guy force. The real red pill is realizing the CIA is a terrorist organization.

[Anonymous No.14182615]

>>14182560
>>destabilizing and radicalizing a major country in the middle east
Fractured and forever destroyed panarabism through sectarian splintering, obsoleting left-right political debate, thus soviet influence, and effectively reverted the middle east and beyond to a much simpler dichotomy of desert-tier fundamentalism (oooga booga!), and more or less conservative with western-cozying, with the main battles now concerning regional actors (eg Iran). The former aspect of the dichotomy is a much easier problem to contain, even when given an entire state in the case of the Shias. Indeed, it would not surprise me if they let Iran grow and fester simply to study the effects of a theocratic regime and how it would be the lowest cost means of averting soviet influence at the time in addition to the implicit goal of creating a regional boogeyman for Arab states to its west. It also forces any nations with cozy relations to the US to depend on America even more.
>>destabilizing and inflaming violence in central america
Prevented Marxist ideology and soviet satellite state from taking hold. Very successful.
>>14182570
This is just false. People at best will call it a necessary evil. Most boomers and normies only have disparaging remarks and conspiracy theories about them.

[Anonymous No.14182630]

>>14179837
redpill me on Jesus. why is the CIA so desperate to convince me he is the bad guy and was wrong about everything?

PD: I'm not very knowledgeable on Marx but LTV is simply plain retarded

[Anonymous No.14182722]

>>14179837
in the end it doesnt matter what ideology they fight or prop up as long as it does what they want. it just so happens marxism is a readily memeable script.
>>14179879
lmao
>>14182192
>enthusiastists
holy shit my sides were not expecting these posts

[Anonymous No.14182755]

>>14182615
>Fractured and forever destroyed panarabism through sectarian splintering, obsoleting left-right political debate, thus soviet influence, and effectively reverted)......

MENA is the most volatile clusterfuck on earth. Two nations (if you want to include Pakistan) have literal nuclear weapons capabilities, Iran is probably developing them, and you're talking about the situation it like it's an ant farm the CIA decided to experiment with and is now having a total blast managing.

>Prevented Marxist ideology and soviet satellite state from taking hold. Very successful.

Yes. God forbid the Nicaraguans seize the means of production.

[Anonymous No.14182757]

>Marx enthusiasts putting on an air of superiority to compensate for their lack of ideological fortitude
every fucking time

[Anonymous No.14182777]

>>14180871
>>14180860
Wolff and Harvey are both retarded Marxist "economists", aka bougie hacks.

[Anonymous No.14182819]

https://thenextrecession.wordpress.com/
just read michael roberts, he's a smart marxist.

[Anonymous No.14182840]

>>14182529
He would put you in a gulag, retard

[Anonymous No.14182846]

>>14182840
i'd put it in his gulag, senpai

[Anonymous No.14182851]

>>14179837
Daily reminder that commies and fashies are both trash and deserve the electric chair.

[Anonymous No.14183978]

>>14179837
Because he was the first to really explain how our "system" works.
After him, all the economist are classical economist faggot, so lackeys in my definition, or people walking in Marx's footsteps, who are constantly discredited by normies propaganda.
CIA does not care currently care about Marx, but McCarthyism still has a lot of echo today. It was so huge in it's era that it still resonates today.

[Anonymous No.14183982]

>>14182851
Daily reminder that Centrist Liberals and Lolbertarians are subhuman scum who need to be Gassed and Gulaged

[Anonymous No.14183987]

>>14179887
Okay, tell me one university which teach Marx? That's right. You can't. Again, you are someone who don't know what he is talking about. Have you ever even hold in your hand Das Kapital?

[Anonymous No.14184012]

>>14182192
>never held a real job
>thrown out of three countries for his work
hmmm

[Anonymous No.14184017]

>>14184012
That's right, talk about his life, never talk about his work. It's on your intellectual level.

[Anonymous No.14184322]

>>14180835
Why do people act like this is some great argument? Everyone who's ever been to college knows how Marxism is treated there. Especially at the Ivies

[Anonymous No.14184330]

>>14182630
Labor theory of value? I remember hearing negative things about it by my right wing econ professor in high school. Course he didn't tell me that labor theory of value actually comes from Wealth of Nations, supposedly his favorite book. I don't trust any econ meme now without reading the original text. There's too much misleading info

[Anonymous No.14184362]

>>14183987
https://oyc.yale.edu/sociology/socy-151/lecture-13
Here is a Yale course on Marx you deluded commie.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/karl-marx-harvard_b_2279718
Here is an article about a Harvard professor discussing teaching Marx

I know it's really fun to believe that you're some kind of brave rebel but the establishment literally does not care about you nor find you threatening. You can write about marx as much as you want in university and nothing will happen to you.

[Anonymous No.14184370]

>>14184322
>Everyone who's ever been to college knows how Marxism is treated there
Not American here, but here in the land of Poles you can literally be a sociologist or a culture studies major and never even read Marx.

[Anonymous No.14184441]

>>14179837
>why is the CIA so desperate to convince me he is the bad guy and was wrong about everything?

Partially because they're mostly right, and partially for the same reason they shill for Christianity despite it being bullshit (to stick it to the Chinese and the Russians - a lot of retarded bullshit has resulted from petty cultural wars between the CIA and KGB and whatnot).

Marx wasn't wrong about everything. He had some good ideas. But most of his more ambitious ones seem to not have translated well into reality.

[Anonymous No.14184446]

>>14180786
they will never be addressed because genetics is a roll of the dice and there are too many differences to flatten the outcome curve.

[Anonymous No.14184461]

>>14182192
I thought he was interred in some British cemetery that charges $8 to view the entire grounds, and people who run it are almost certainly not "Marx enthusiasts"?

[Anonymous No.14184477]

>>14182570
High IQ post.

>>14182615
No, a lot of normies express extreme skepticism when you bring up actual CIA conspiracies that are a matter of public record. Their opinion of CIA ranges from "world police" to "necessary evil". The reality ranges from "unnecessary evil" to "international terrorist and human/drug trafficking organization".

[Anonymous No.14184483]

>>14179837
It's not like the Red Scare. Nobody is concerned that Marxism has any force in it anymore. Elitist academics who embrace it look on the proletariat with disgust. They do it for in-group status, because it is trendy to embrace it. Today's marxism has become pozzed, and has more to do about genderqueer studies than capital.

[Anonymous No.14184485]

>>14184483
>Nobody is concerned
Nobody in good faith is concerned I should clarify. Fox news and Republican politicians will still propagandize senile boomers about all the communist kids running around in schools, but only because it is politically useful to keep them scared.

[Anonymous No.14184545]

>>14183987
There's literally a whole class exclusively on Das Kapital at my school, in the philosophy department. This is one of the top ranking departments in the world and they've got posters shilling the class everywhere. Will take a picture and post it at some point

[Anonymous No.14184573]

>>14179879
Mirin'

[Anonymous No.14184596]

>>14184330
>labor theory of value actually comes from Wealth of Nations
That's right and it blows tankie's minds

[Anonymous No.14184628]

You guys keep talking about marxism in universities but in 14 months I've only heard two political comments, one a jab at the labour theory of value by a linguistics teacher of all people and the other a nationalistic rant about the spanish black legend by a latin lecturer
there's posters with red stars and what not but they're all by students that I secretly agree with but would never say so because they're cringe

[Anonymous No.14184634]

>>14179844
Better smell strikes again

[Anonymous No.14184645]

>>14179837
He stole his ideas he didn't invent communism he just brought it into the spotlight.

[Anonymous No.14184649]

>>14179837
marx confirmed coomer
wanking with his hands in his pants

[Anonymous No.14185197]

>>14182192
>this is what anti-marxists look like

[Anonymous No.14185305]

>>14184370
Well, you know, the other thing is that propagating communism is illegal here in Poland. In this political climate I wouldn't want to be the one to explain to the judge what is the difference between that and marxism. First you'd need to disentangle polish history, totalitarism and fighting for freedom of the opressed. I think this is beyond repair and marxist/communist symbolism is better left in the grave. Just scream for direct democracy and scare the rich with 1789.

[Anonymous No.14185360]

The CIA doesnt care about political radicals, half the commies in the US wear thigh highs and shove shit up their ass for their Twitter fans. Only a mentally ill tranny like butterfag believes lefties hold any real power

[Anonymous No.14185389]

>>14185305
Why do you still like communism after all it did to your country

[Anonymous No.14185489]

>>14185389
What did it do? Like free the peasants or educate the masses? Poland was often a victim of neighbouring empires, this wasn't anything else. It was imperialism that again screw us over, not communism. The part that was actually communist was mostly the decent part. I oftern compare Poland & Russia to Mexico & USA. If USSR was a capitalist state we would be screwed as bad as Mexico is today.

[Anonymous No.14185538]

>>14179837
>why is the CIA so desperate to convince me he is the bad guy
It's a fact that communism makes no money. Having your people survive off of a diet of bread, potatoes and meatless broth isn't good for the profits of corporations. Who do you think funds the CIA? This is the modern form of imperialism.
Communism is not AT ALL good. It just conflicts with the interests of bankers and corporations. Middle class 1st world communists are just hipster contrarians. "Capitalism is so cruel bro, My mom is having trouble buying me the new iPhone and she might make me start paying rent to sleep in the basement."
The only beneficial government is either no government or minimal government. I can build a homestead with my wife and impregnate her 8 times and educate my family by myself. I don't need the government meddling in my affairs. How dare they harass us and steal from us, twisted fucks.

[Anonymous No.14185573]

>>14180835
>Marxists don't exist in universities
>>14182777
>ALL OF THOSE MARXISTS YOU MENTIONED DONT ACTUALLY COUNT
It's always gymnastics with you people.

[Anonymous No.14185597]

>>14182192
Engels did not own textile mills in England, his father did. He was sent to do admin but spent all his time writing and observing, before promptly leaving for Paris to participate in political organization.

[Anonymous No.14185624]

>>14179837
The CIA leadership is full of ex-communists, and the CIA openly welcomes leftists. See John Brennan, who voted for the Communist Party before joining the CIA and publicly assured potential applicants that their politics didn’t matter. All American institutions are saturated with lifetime bureaucrats who generally share those beliefs.

Yeah, it sounds bizarre and retarded. given the history of the CIA. But the times have changed. Given the shared philosophical underpinnings of liberal capitalism and Marxist communism, it was only a matter of time before we started to see the two ideologies blend together.

[Anonymous No.14186351]

>why is the CIA so desperate to convince me he is the bad guy and was wrong about everything
>the CIA
I mean the track record of all Marxist countries does that just fine

[Anonymous No.14187270]

>>14185489
Meksyk jest znacznie biedniejszy właśnie dlatego, że ich brutalny stalinizm trwał 30 lat, a nie 11, tak jak u nas.

[Anonymous No.14187464]

>>14185624
Communists, Mormons, and homosexuals (but I repeat myself).

[Anonymous No.14187527]

>>14187464
based companionship

[Anonymous No.14187547]

>>14179887
I mean, didn't they do exactly that for decades? Cold War tensions have died down so that for the past few decades it's been possible to be a Marxist academic without worrying about getting put on a government list. But that doesn't mean they like Marxism, it's just no longer enough of a threat to waste energy keeping tabs on all the time.

[Anonymous No.14187587]

Kek the CIA probably doesnt give one shit about modern marxists, they flawless victoried those chumps already

[Anonymous No.14187603]

>>14186351
cope deflection

[Anonymous No.14187675]

>>14180996
>Marxism is too radical
Welp, now it doesn't matter if I get into their grad program or not.

[Anonymous No.14187695]

>>14179837
on a planet with 7 billion people all evolved for tribal living, nothing will work

[Anonymous No.14187746]

>>14187270
>>14185305
And because of that we have no respectable humanities departaments in Poland. For fucks sake seeing a "professor" here struggling with basically anything written in XX century because mommy forbid to read Santaklausman is pathetic. You don't have to be a marxist but there's no social sciences, cultural theory and large part of continental philosophy, art and literature criticism without his influence. JPDGMD

[Anonymous No.14187832]

>>14184362
Wanting to abolish the State is literally a criminal infraction in my country. Same for private property of the means of production.
Maybe those classes are toned down version of Karl Marx.
You think fascism is rebel? The establishment doesn't like fascism for one main reason: they are anti-immigration. Oh shit, Marx was anti-immigration as well... LIke i said, those classes are probably the Coca-cola light version of Das Kapital.