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14159231 No.14159231 [Reply] [Original]

Is lying ever justified?

>> No.14159235

>>14159231
yeah to get pussy

>> No.14159238

>>14159231
When talking to goyim.

>> No.14159241

>>14159231
Lying is more ethical and morally justified than telling the truth.

>> No.14159249

>>14159231
Reminder Catholics and Kant think you shouldn’t lie to Gestapo about location of Jews

>> No.14159254

>>14159249
you shouldn't

>> No.14159274

>>14159249
Kant didn't say you SHOULDN'T lie, rather just that there is still some negativity that comes with lying as there always is, and that you'd be responsible if something happened to your jew friend as a result of your lie.
It's super autistic but makes sense.

>> No.14159298

seems like one of those slippery slope problems
also seems like one of those "but the intangible effects outweigh the benefits" things

seems a lot easier to not lie in 99% of all situations.
it isn't a binary of TRUTH or LIE
you can always just omit the truth

>> No.14159302

>>14159249
>lie
>gestapo can't find jews
>they later flee to america
>join alliance of already established jews
>already established jews become even more powerful
>destroy your grandchildren's country down the road
thanks for hiding shlomo in the attic bro

>> No.14159311

>>14159231
We are always trying our best to communicate. But DELIBERATELY trying to deceive someone in such a way where they are living in a false reality based on false information and empty affirmations you made that will have irrevocable negative consequences for them, indefinitely, is by definition fucked. It means you have no value for human life, and so while you posses the power to perform as humans do you do not have the capacity to use those powers responsibly, but since you did so knowingly, that is, you lied knowing you were lying at the cost of human life, well you deserve the guillotine. Yes I am a Frenchman from the 18th century

>> No.14159315

>>14159231
Lying to yourself is not acceptable because you end up a slave to your web of lies.
Lying to others is only acceptable if it serves a greater purpose

>> No.14159331

>>14159274
Kant was big on not contradicting yourself. A lie has to be kept up, a liar is less of a person because of their lies. Yes Kant, an ardent critique of false notions, would believe such a thing. I admire his zeal at complete humanity

>> No.14159342

>>14159231
well obviously if it leads to justice

>> No.14159375

>>14159342
Don’t go to the play Abe

>> No.14159381
File: 56 KB, 1172x659, yes.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14159381

>>14159249

>> No.14159436

it depends, an internalised lie is thoroughly not recommended

but in some way, lying could be a healthy thing in life if we remain aware of our lies

our culture is stuck in mcdonalds grade ‘authenticity’ mode right now, people looking for an ‘authentic self’, ‘authentic identity’, and in this case it is important to remember how you interface with people is always a charade

but don’t lie to yourself, and don’t lie in a way that diminishes the trust your friends have in you

>> No.14159452

>>14159381
lmfao at this shit :3

Honestly best meme ever

>> No.14159461

If someone is ugly and they ask of you if they're ugly, if you think they are grotesque and disfigured, you shouldn't say "yes you're ugly" that's not being righteous

>> No.14159480

>>14159231
Outright lying is often a bad idea, because it only works if you actually know more than the person you're lying to, and if they catch you in a blatant lie they'll never trust anything you ever say again. But managing others' perceptions of events is often one of the best things to do. By and large, people don't want the truth, but they don't want outright falsehood either, and what could be more justified than giving people what they want?

>> No.14159481

>>14159461
What good would lying do here? I'm not saying tell him he's an ugly shit right in his face, but definitely don't lie either. Sit down with him and make him face the reality that yes, he's ugly but no, it doesn't need to cripple him for life

>> No.14159490

>>14159241
Care to explain?

>> No.14159501

>>14159481
This :3

>> No.14159518

>>14159481
no, you have to blackpill him and introduce him to lookism, or he will just be living a lie

>> No.14159519
File: 132 KB, 500x500, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14159519

>>14159231
No.

>> No.14159533

Yes, it is the Biblical answer. For instance, God praises Rahab for lying to the spies in James 2:25

>> No.14159545

>>14159518
You both did the right thing for the poor sap. Either way, he's getting a wake up call :3

>> No.14159549

>>14159461
>Implying beauty is entirely dependent on appearances

>> No.14159552

>>14159549
To be beautiful, you must participate in beauty

>> No.14159566
File: 74 KB, 850x400, quote-it-is-probable-that-two-proposed-unknown-rations-are-incommensurable-because-if-many-nicole-oresme-126-77-71.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14159566

>>14159549
There are actually many ancient natural philosophers, such as Alhacen, Witelo, or Nicole Oresme, who would argue differently: that beauty is objective and even quantifiable based on certain characteristics. :3

>> No.14159592

>>14159566
i'm dumb and i don't get this quote, :3 poster. can you spoonfeed it to me? pretend i'm butterfly if it helps.

>> No.14159599

>>14159241
now that's a hot take

>> No.14159603

>>14159231
According to objective morality—virtue ethics—lying is morally wrong, but it's not as bad as Kant said.

>> No.14159608

>>14159592
a multitude of measurements of judging beauty ('rations') implies that the one measurement is unable to be compared to the other? I guess that's not the crux of his argument

>> No.14159610

>>14159231
Lying is, almost by definition, a refusal to cooperate with others. It condenses a lack of trust and trustworthiness into a single act. It is both a failure of understanding and an unwillingness to be understood. To lie is to recoil from relationship.

By lying, we deny others a view of the world as it is. Our dishonesty not only influences the choices they make, it often determines the choices they can make—and in ways we cannot always predict. Every lie is a direct assault upon the autonomy of those we lie to.

Honest people are a refuge: You know they mean what they say; you know they will not say one thing to your face and another behind your back; you know they will tell you when they think you have failed—and for this reason their praise cannot be mistaken for mere flattery.

When we presume to lie for the benefit of others, we have decided that we are the best judges of how much they should understand about their own lives—about how they appear, their reputations, or their prospects in the world.

How would your relationships change if you resolved never to lie again? What truths about yourself might suddenly come into view? What kind of person would you become? And how might you change the people around you? It is worth finding out.

>> No.14159627

>>14159608
You're right. The pic/quote is unrelated.

:3

The sheer magnitude of possible ratios, although finite, implies the improbability of any two ratios being commensurable.

I don't know any other way to explain it better. :3

If you were butterfly I'd embarrass you and myself by doing something sexual >.<

>> No.14159630

Everything's the truth, just know the right one for the current context, that's best for both of your connected, higher purpose

>> No.14159631
File: 28 KB, 619x453, 1573608429559.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14159631

>>14159627
>If you were butterfly I'd embarrass you and myself by doing something sexual >.<
I wish I was butterfly

>> No.14159637

>>14159631
No you don't, like I said I would embarrass her too.

She has a hard time. haha

>> No.14159658

>>14159552
The intention goes beyond appearances

>>14159566
Beauty is beyond and not dependent on a beholder, therefore it must be objective

>> No.14159664

>>14159637
>>14159627
>>14159566
how can one man be this based

>> No.14159680
File: 530 KB, 1077x2738, sinner.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14159680

Lying is a sin.

>> No.14159687

>>14159241
Wrong !

>> No.14159689

>>14159664
Severe autism and unlimited access to the internet

>> No.14159717

>>14159231
When it's for fun
Truth is good but boring

>> No.14159740

>>14159658
The idea is that beauty is actually a collection of attributes. It's not something that you can state in a pithy little sophomoric one-liner :3

>> No.14159749

>>14159740
Then why do some ugly pets look cute? :3

>> No.14159754

>>14159740
Don’t get mad, you’ll learn the art of brevity one day faggot

>> No.14159761

>>14159754
There is nothing 'artful' about subtracting quality from a definition.

Life isn't a dictionary, some things cannot be defined that way. And philosophies cannot be correctly explained that way either.

>>14159749
They aren't ugly? :3

The pets that have those genetically modified skulls that are painful for them actually aren't that cute. Thinking they are cute is a disease.

>> No.14159924

>>14159490
It is not possible for you to "tell the truth" because it is not possible for you to know the truth. Therefore everything you say is truth is in some way or to some degree an untruth. Because you will not recognize it as such you are unintentionally lying and misleading yourselves and others away from the truth. Therefore all statements of "truth" are unethical and immoral.

It more ethical and morally justified to create lies, and as many as possible in order that one or more of them may inadvertently be more representative of the truth than the subjective unrecognized untruths you assert as true. An endless string of genuinely crafted and delivered lies will more accurately inform the truth than selected subjective unwitting untruths represented as well reasoned truth.

Lying is more justified than truth telling. We create the truth as much as we create the lies. Therefore let us honestly represent our lies as our truth and abandon "faith" in rational truth as it is immorally though unintentionally untrue.

>> No.14159931

>>14159761
You’re wrong. Don’t need a dictionary to know that.

>> No.14159932

>>14159924
Imagine being stupid enough to conflate lies with mistakes.

>> No.14159944

>>14159932
The idea that anything is True is the mistake. All you can create are lies. So create better ones.

>> No.14159971

I constantly lie to protect myself. Mostly, I lie about entirely personal matters. But I have no qualms about lying in general, as long as it means I'm avoiding embarrassment, conflict I deem unnecessary or other inconveniences. Since I don't believe in objective morality, I only do what I believe it is right for me and try my best not to harm others.

>> No.14159981

>>14159231
Have you read anything about it?

>> No.14159990
File: 158 KB, 670x400, propaganda-posters-hero-02.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14159990

>>14159231
yes, but only if you're the minister of propaganda

>> No.14160228

if you're in shit life situation due to being neet for years
is it wrong to lie about work if you're trying to turn your life around to get a job?
and then how would you make it believable?

>> No.14160538

>>14159944
Pseud.

>> No.14160570

>>14159944
Didn’t start

>> No.14160964

>>14159931
I haven't even defined beauty yet for you. Don't you want to wait for me to define it before you call me wrong?

I wasn't going to, I just need you to ask me :3

>> No.14161385

>>14159235
this

>> No.14161400

>>14159231
Tons of ways.

1. Job stuff. Some people are actively incompatible with how you live your life. If you do LSD they'll judge you akin to a heroin addict, which is bad for trying to get shit done in a work environment. If you're into crazy BSDM shit they'll mark you as a non-stable degenerate. You simply can't tell some losers in life that you life on a different level of intensity as them. These people haven't read a book in a decade. They're not into challenging their own belief structures or perspective shifting into the minds of others.

2. Family stuff. My mom isn't smart. She doesn't want to discuss God - she just wants to hang out at church with her church friends. She doesn't want to hear about the raw details of why my relationship went bad. She can handle it, but she can't discuss it in depth. It frustrates her. She's sweet and simple. White lies come out here.

3. Overcoming retards. There's that debate pyramid. Retards who get emotional or won't think with logic need to be lied to to overcome their own mental mousetraps. Lying to them is admitting that I don't respect them enough to tell them the truth and reach the optimal conclusion/scenario. I admit that.

4. Whatever you want. Fuck it. Lying can be a game. Lying can get you into restricted areas or get you free shit. Life is fun. Maybe if I was some multimillionaire who had spent decades establishing a relationship network of trusted fellows I'd shy away from it, but life hasn't been so amazing to meas that.

>> No.14161438

>>14159924
Brainlet take. I bet you think you’re real clever. Ironically you are not, lying would be telling untruth, since you cannot know the truth then saying the “truth” is in fact a lie, so you’re whole concept is predicated on the fact that the truth is unethical because it is lie, which implicitly means lying is wrong.
Conversely saying “I think it’s x” when you think it is x would be true. Your entire worldview is self contradictory and embarrassing.

>> No.14161444

>>14159231
yes, but there is always a price to pay

>> No.14161530

>>14159231
No, but it is often the only sane path.

>> No.14162225

while in not sure if we should always lie, every time you do you should realize that there are circumstances in the world such that you cannot speak your mind.
One should now understand that this is an undesireable state to be in.
Lets say you get a bad mark, lying means that you have failed the expectations of your parent.
Maybe your parent should lower their expectations? Maybe you should rise up to theirs?
Ignoring these realities are not going to do well in the future, because there's one thing that never lie: its reality.
It will come around and bite your ass in the future.

>> No.14162389

>>14159231
Telling ur child that santa exists instead of him being grateful to you for all those fucking presents what a fucking idiotic system fuck santa inexistent altruistic prick

>> No.14162896

>>14159231
The consequences of your actions are unknowable.

>> No.14162906

>>14159924
>because it is not possible for you to know the truth
Are you sure that's true?